Why do you want children??

[OptomisticGirl]

okay...fair enough. i equated ''or, try to'' as ''having sex''. so it seems maybe i really was dimwitted enough to miss what you were implying. hahaha!! god i love the internet sometimes!

 

and your question...this is good, OG. very pleased that you've asked this. and i'm curious to hear what others have to say on this. because, you've effectively taken an element (not all of it) of the bilogical need off the table. so perhaps we're getting closer to the heart of this. very interesting.

 

this may be too personal...so i respect your right to privacy on this one...but have you ever examined your fear of being unable to conceive?

 

Examined it, no. The one thing I want more than anything in this world is to be a mom - since it's the one thing I want most of all, it stands to reason that it would be my biggest fear that it wouldn't happen, no?

[OptomisticGirl]

I've just always known I want to have children. I love kids. I honestly can't wait to be a mom. It might sound lame, but I am really good at taking care of people, loving them and I have a lot of love to give. I can't wait to be able to share that with my kids some day. They are such a blessing. Probably since I grew up very young having neices and nephews; I've been around kids pretty much my entire life and I couldn't imagine life without them. Even if for some reason I could not have my own kids, I would want to adopt. Having those special people in your life, in my opinion, is what makes it worth living.

 

Same here, a lot of people tell me I"M 23, I dont really want kids right now, I don't want to lose the sleep or be puked on or change diapers - what they don't realize is that's what I day dream about, lol. I don't care for losing sleep or changing diapers or changing my clothes eight times a day or not even having time to do that - I have been around it my whole life and that desire has never wained.

[Unknown1607307972]

I don't want children myself but I can understand why people do. From what I see, it's the strongest love a human can feel and they want to create that person who'll be so special to them. They want to watch them grow, help raise them into good people (as while one cannot choose their child's personality, they can have some influence on them still), go through all the experiences and challenges of raising a child. I think these are fair reasons to want a child.

 

I have been around children my whole life and I am very used to children, I love those children. They make me laugh, they surprise me, sometimes they can be sweet I think one day I'll be a nice auntie. I just can't handle children for too long because I don't cope with the stress. I completely break down over a persistently crying baby to the point where I am aggressive towards myself. I need time alone each day to remain sane. I also have a fear of pregnancy, it feels really really wrong whenever I picture myself pregnant and I have nightmares about it. I don't think I am mum material (despite my boyfriend's mum telling me I'll have seven grandkids for her she wishes...)

[-Sanguine-]

hey sanguine,

 

i don't think any of this sounds lame. your focus is very much on giving...and to me, that's where the focus should always be. that, as i see it, is the essence of Khalil Gibran's passage. but then...words are always open to interpretation.

 

how do you think your view would be different had you not grown up around children?

 

just some thoughts. thanks for sharing your perspective.

 

I think that even if I hadn't grown up around kids, I would still want them just the same. I am naturally a giving person and to be any different would be unusual to me.

[-Sanguine-]

Same here, a lot of people tell me I"M 23, I dont really want kids right now, I don't want to lose the sleep or be puked on or change diapers - what they don't realize is that's what I day dream about, lol. I don't care for losing sleep or changing diapers or changing my clothes eight times a day or not even having time to do that - I have been around it my whole life and that desire has never wained.

 

Haha, yes I know how you feel! I am only 19 - nowhere near ready for kids but I'm sure you're at that point in your life sometime soon. I don't usually share with too many people how I'm so excited for kids. Most people my age would not understand. But like you said I've been around it too and my desire has never changed even when the kids are misbehaving.

[90_hour_sleep]

I don't want children myself but I can understand why people do. From what I see, it's the strongest love a human can feel and they want to create that person who'll be so special to them. They want to watch them grow, help raise them into good people (as while one cannot choose their child's personality, they can have some influence on them still), go through all the experiences and challenges of raising a child. I think these are fair reasons to want a child.

 

hey ~Unknwon~,

 

have to appreciate that sentiment. there is something incredible about this bond...and one could argue, especially the mother-child bond. looking back on my own life...with all the relationships i've entered into...most of them with very genuine, kind, accepting women...my own mom is probably still the most accepting of me. she is maybe the only person that will always accept me for exactly what i am right now.

 

romantic relationships have a way of challenging that notion of acceptance. i think it's a difficult skill to master. requires an arsenal of tools. at the end of the day...i know there are people out there who are capable of this. i don't see it so much as unconditional love. it's unconditional acceptance...and through that acceptance, a different kind of love becomes possible.

 

it's neat. i think your explanation is a good one. thanks for sharing.

 

I also have a fear of pregnancy, it feels really really wrong whenever I picture myself pregnant and I have nightmares about it. I don't think I am mum material (despite my boyfriend's mum telling me I'll have seven grandkids for her she wishes...)

 

any idea where this fear comes from? is it unpleasant? i mean...do you feel like you're missing out on something that you should be participating in (like...is there any sort of social pressure that you feel)? if that's not too personal. and your boyfriend's mom sounds like a former almost-mother-in-law of mine. if she'd had her way...i'dve been a father of five long ago. "you two will have the cutest kids!!" ha...sorry mom. i don't think it's in the cards.

[90_hour_sleep]

Same here, a lot of people tell me I"M 23, I dont really want kids right now, I don't want to lose the sleep or be puked on or change diapers - what they don't realize is that's what I day dream about, lol. I don't care for losing sleep or changing diapers or changing my clothes eight times a day or not even having time to do that - I have been around it my whole life and that desire has never wained.

 

Haha, yes I know how you feel! I am only 19 - nowhere near ready for kids but I'm sure you're at that point in your life sometime soon. I don't usually share with too many people how I'm so excited for kids. Most people my age would not understand. But like you said I've been around it too and my desire has never changed even when the kids are misbehaving.

 

the two of you would fit in marvellously where i'm at. you're almost a bit of an outcast if you don't have kids here. and people wonder what's wrong with you if you haven't settled down and started breeding by the time you hit 20. remember it feeling like a huge adjustment when i got here. i'm still wondering if there's something in the water. when will i catch the fever??

[tinkerbellkj]

I wonder if I can even put my feelings into words about this. I am a new mom (my baby will be 10 weeks tomorrow, can't believe it!) and I am also a former DCF/CPS/adoptions case worker for my state, so I have seen both sides. I always had an idea I wanted to be a mother from a very young age, mostly because my mother was such a good one and I wanted to be like her. And then I grew up and became my own person, and I didn't really think too much about children, until I met my husband. When I met him I knew immediately that he'd be a great father, and I wanted to create another person with him because I truly believed that together we could make a good one. And so far I'm pretty pleased ;-).

 

On the other hand I spent years working with abused/neglected/abandoned children, and believe me there were days that I wanted to take them all home. I felt and still feel a lot of anger towards a lot of these parents, but I also knew my job was not to 'save' them, it was to comfort them and to help find them new homes along the way. Some of the parents came through, sometimes it was a friend or a relative that was there to take them in. However, sadly many of them (almost always teenagers) still linger in the system and may never find a new 'home' so to speak. This is because of the issues that go along with being an abused/abandoned child.

 

I can say honestly that I am not equipped to handle the issues that many of these parents have imposed on their children. Does this make me a bad person? Maybe. But, I think it makes me honest, too. So yes, my motivation IS selfish. I wanted my own children with my husband that we could grow and raise from birth on. I do, however, love children and want to help them as much as possible (it's certainly not for the money, by the time they take health insurance out, there isn't much left!). I currently work as a case worker for low income children with mental health issues, and while I am working with them I devote all my energy towards them. So while I don't have the motivation, energy, or desire to adopt a teenager from 'the system' I like to feel I am helping out where I can in my own way.

[OptomisticGirl]

the two of you would fit in marvellously where i'm at. you're almost a bit of an outcast if you don't have kids here. and people wonder what's wrong with you if you haven't settled down and started breeding by the time you hit 20. remember it feeling like a huge adjustment when i got here. i'm still wondering if there's something in the water. when will i catch the fever??

 

People here are getting married and having kids left and right here, not always because they WANT to, mind you.

[Batya33]

Obviously deciding to have a biological child has an element of selfishness but to me it's about the balance between selfishness and the best interests of the child. I wanted to have a child from the time I was a teenager and probably earlier - but I also knew from early on that I would not bring a child into this world outside of a happy, stable marriage with someone who also wanted, 100% to be a father. I didn't think it would be in the best interests of a child to be a single mother by choice. So I waited -I didn't even try to get pregnant until just before I turned 41. Becoming a mother, having my son, having our family - I won the lottery, I am truly blessed. What I found interesting about the passage you quoted was about how abstract it is. I am all for thinking about the abstract concepts of being a parent but at least for me being a parent is all about being on the front lines - it's all hands on, all getting your hands ( and some other bodily parts dirty, sweaty, you name it) and to me being a good parent means focusing on the minute to minute stuff of taking care of my toddler, not musing on abstract concepts of parenthood. I do that too -after he goes to sleep, after I've cleaned up -sometimes I do some reading on how to keep up a positive mindset, a positive perspective, how to be a better mother, I say prayers (and also sing to him every morning a little song about how blessed I am to have him) - but mostly, I am using my mind and all my physical abilities -including some that I never knew I had - to make sure he is happy, learning, feeling loved, well fed, clean, etc.

 

Of course I agree that I am not here to control him (that would be bad parenting) or to "own" him but yes, he is my son, and yes that gives me certain rights and priorities over other, non-parents in his life. And when I have to, I remind others of those rights in a nice way as much as possible. And no I wouldn't listen to anyone who tried to tell me that he/she could do whatever it was I didn't feel comfortable with because he's not "mine".

I am also sure that being a parent is not for everyone and if you do not want children that's perfectly fine and I hope you are not judged for it.

[Unknown1607307972]

First, thanks

 

As for my pregnancy fear, I have no idea where it comes from. I just find the idea of something living in my body and changing it terrifies me, my own body being out of my control, and a countdown to an inevitable childbirth which also terrifies me. I don't know anyone who has had issues with pregnancy, I think it just comes from my own desire to control my life as much as I can.

 

My boyfriend's mum likes to wind me up but she would like grandkids. She says she thinks I'll change my mind but would accept it if I never did.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I don't want them. I wish there were more guys who didn't want children. But every guy I know wants to have one "at some point". ugh

[90_hour_sleep]

hey tinkerbell,

 

really appreciate this added perspective. think you've raised a few issues that are well worth consideration.

 

i like what you said about having that desire as a child to emmulate your mother. that makes alot of sense. perhaps it's where the seed is often planted for alot of women? if a woman grew up in a nurturing environment...it seems very natural that she'd wish to be a continuation of that sort of legacy. you know? and (if my own encounters in life are any indication), perhaps the reverse of that can be said to be true as well. a woman who grows up in an environment which lacks that fundamental nurturing, perhaps she'll feel less inclined to become a nurturer herself. it may feel alien. although, there's also the chance that she may seek to fill her own childhood void by becoming a parent. i'm sure there are many variables to consider. perhaps you have some insights into this, based on your line of work?

 

also...there's something really warm about the way you describe this feeling coming back to you when you met your now-husband. and how your desire to create really blossomed out of that relationship. you've definitely touched something in me with those words. i'm not sure there's anything more satisfying than the act of creation. we all yearn for it on some level. i'm a bit of an idealist with this one...and i'd like to think that this is how the majority of children enter into the world.

 

 

 

 

for what it's worth...i don't think you're a 'bad' person for being able to recognize your limitations here. i'd be more concerned with one who is incapable of recognizing those limitations...and consequently, gets in over her head and has a damaging effect on those she has interactions with. kids don't have a choice...and i think that's the reason parenting is considered such a huge responsibility.

 

 

 

i appreciate your honesty here. not my place to deem your desires selfish or unselfish. regardless of what they are in this case ...they make sense. i think it speaks in part to an element of control. if you're there from the beginning...you essentially make the mold. reminds me of the saying, ''you can't teach an old dog new tricks''. maybe it's the same idea. if you come in after the fact...your job becomes more about adapting. and that can be a huge challenge. and...on another level...i think it robs one of that element of creation. definitely not for everyone. those who can do it (and do it well)...have my utmost respect.

 

anyway. thanks for sharing here. and let me take the opportunity to commend you for the work you do. i've been a firsthand witness to the effects of childhood abuse...but also a witness to what's possible when those kids get the support they need. you have an important role to play.

[90_hour_sleep]

hey Batya,

 

thanks for weighing in on this one. i think you've touched on many of the moral implications that are involved when it comes to having children. and i think you've made some important references that speak to the fact that our decisions in life are heavily influenced by value systems that are nurtured from birth.

 

i'm wondering in what way you considered Khalil Gibran's passage to be abstract. perhaps we have different impressions of what constitues abstraction. i wouldn't bother to bring it up...but i think it's relevent to the nature of this thread in a way. i can appreciate a certain poetic nature...but to me there's nothing abstract at all. but...this is my own interpretation...and i respect that you have a different point of view. the intention was in no way to trivialize the day-to-day experience of a parent on the front lines. in actuality...i don't think i have any right to do so, having never been a parent myself; however, in terms of the initial desire...the need...the want...i think it's perhaps important to take a deeper look into the reasons before one takes that first step on the path of parenthood. does that make sense? i appreciate where you're coming from...and i tend to agree with your sentiments on those terms. and really...i think you've shared some agreement that at times it's important to reflect beyond what's right before you at a given moment; although, i can appreciate that this might be a bit silly when up to one's elbows in dirty diapers or at wits end with uncooperative children...on the front lines so-to-speak. and of course...there are numerous other examples...i don't wish to limit this to younger children. but i think perhaps things begin to change as children evolve into their own beings. but that's going off on a bit of a tangent...

 

i guess what i'm really getting at...is that the purpose behind this thread for me...was to explore the reasons before conception. you've made some great points attesting to your experience as a mother...but i'm wondering if you'd care to comment on the nature of your desire before you became a mother.

 

i think i've often misinterpreted the tone of your posting here in the past...but i'd be eager to hear additional thoughts should you feel inclined to share.

 

thanks again for sharing.

[90_hour_sleep]

I don't want them. I wish there were more guys who didn't want children. But every guy I know wants to have one "at some point". ugh

 

hey Sparkly,

 

just a strict ''don't want''...or are there some reasons behind your rhyme?

 

afraid i'm not much help...i'm kind of lumped in with the ''at some point'' guys; although, for me that's entirely conditional upon meeting the right woman...much the way tinkerbell described the knowing when she met her husband. not sure that's typical...but at this stage of my life...i have a hard time imagining it happening any other way.

 

i think i can relate a bit to what you're saying though. i sometimes wish there were more women who weren't deadset on the notion of being mothers. obviously i don't know what the motherly instinct feels like...but there are those women who are able to keep it at bay. while they desire children...they are not consumed by that desire. life still has substance for them without the realization of that desire.

 

i'm interested in understanding the other perspective though. the woman who feels incomplete...empty... and without value. the woman who attaches her sense of worth to this event. how does such a woman come to associate with this belief in herself?

 

 

 

and i guess...this could easily relate to men as well. although it seems far less common.

[90_hour_sleep]

First, thanks

 

As for my pregnancy fear, I have no idea where it comes from. I just find the idea of something living in my body and changing it terrifies me, my own body being out of my control, and a countdown to an inevitable childbirth which also terrifies me. I don't know anyone who has had issues with pregnancy, I think it just comes from my own desire to control my life as much as I can.

 

My boyfriend's mum likes to wind me up but she would like grandkids. She says she thinks I'll change my mind but would accept it if I never did.

 

that's not a sentiment one sees often!! although, it has come up in other threads...this same kind of fear. so, you're definitely not alone there. still...i wonder what it is that sets you apart from others. maybe it's more common than we think. perhaps others are shy about admitting such things for fear of scrutiny?

[elcie]

With over-controlling parents I think it all stems from the fear of losing control which is a very primal fear.

 

When children are very young, it is your role as a parent to make many decisions for them. You are able to keep them safe, fed, clothed, educated and, most importantly, loved.

 

As they get older and become independent it's hard to feel that control slip through your fingers. It's an almost irresistible impulse to tell them, "No, don't do it that way, do it this way..."

 

I keep telling myself that they have to make mistakes to learn but it's hard not to interfere. I'm still a work in progress but my aim is to be a parent who is there if help or advice is needed but has learned to perceive her children as independent adults with their own lives to live.

 

Some parents are unable to make that transition and are unable to 'let go'

[ProtestTheHero]

I have no desire to be a father and no desire to be a husband. People talk about how this stuff enriches your life, but 21+ years of work, 100k dollars, the insane time obligations, and the ever present possibility to make a monstrously huge mistake with your kid(s) is enough for me to say no thanks. I'd rather be at a casino than a ballet recital or a little league game. My dad did all those things with me, but I don't have it in me I'm afraid. The pressure of people doing nothing but taking from you because without you they're screwed is a little too much for me. I'd rather crash and burn knowing it only affects me.

[Unknown1607307972]

that's not a sentiment one sees often!! although, it has come up in other threads...this same kind of fear. so, you're definitely not alone there. still...i wonder what it is that sets you apart from others. maybe it's more common than we think. perhaps others are shy about admitting such things for fear of scrutiny?

 

Not many people understand the way I feel about pregnancy they tell me women have done it since the beginning of mankind and that most women are a bit scared of childbirth. I try explaining that it's like telling someone with a fear of spiders that the spider can't hurt them (where I live there are no dangerous ones!), they already know this and they know the fear isn't logical but that doesn't make it go away. For me pregnancy and childbirth takes control away from your own body and to have my body altered by another being feels very wrong to me I think most women are afraid of the pain and fear childbirth over pregnancy itself, for me it's the lack of control and both are equally scary for me. Seeing as I have many other reasons for why I don't want children it's not the end of the world.

 

I think it is more common than people think but it isn't the normal view. It's a shame people are made to feel bad about it but as I said, many people just simply don't get it and can't separate it from usual pregnancy fears.

[Batya33]

"a bit silly when up to one's elbows in dirty diapers or at wits end with uncooperative children...on the front lines so-to-speak. and of course...there are numerous other examples...i don't wish to limit this to younger children. but i think perhaps things begin to change as children evolve into their own beings. but that's going off on a bit of a tangent..."

 

It's very interesting that you interpreted my "front lines" comments as negatively as you did -I actually meant the totality and the overwhelmingly positive aspects of the work I do and my husband does in caring for our child - the minute by minute decisions you have to make and the reactions you have to consider to give your child the most fun and best experiences possible - like how to explain to a 2 year old why the bottle that floated in the bathtub doesn't float on the carpet, why he shouldn't take a cereal box into the tub, and why he shouldn't be scared about playing with an inflatable ball that feels different than a regular ball when he touches it. When he laughs at how hilarious it is to pull a cheerio out of his mouth and paste it on his thigh at a nice cafe should you laugh with him or do you have to keep a straight face so that you start early developing proper table manners? I hope you note the Cheerios theme ;-)

 

I do agree that deep thinking is essential before trying to have or adopt a child! I don't agree that I've been brainwashed by "society" -I'm an independent, intelligent, open minded person and especially when it came to children I resisted the urge to have them on my own just because of all the pressures of the biological clock and went through a lot of introspection and analysis before trying to conceive with my now-husband. Was I influenced by society? I don't think so but obviously can't say for sure.

 

I would not have had a child if I truly believed he wouldn't be "my child" in some way and I would not have had a child if I truly believed that my child would want to be with me always and would want to take care of me when I am old -that would have been too selfish/self-absorbed for me. It's going to be a huge step for me when it's time for him to go to pre-school, let alone move out on his own someday, god willing, but I know my job as a parent is to put his needs first including his need to learn to and want to be apart from his parents and independent. My parents gave me that gift and it probably was hard for them too at times.

[tiredofvampires]

I'm not in a position to type full-on responses to your responses ('cause there're a bunch of different tangents!), until the hand injury I'm nursing is more fully healed, but just for now --

 

afraid i'm not much help...i'm kind of lumped in with the ''at some point'' guys; although, for me that's entirely conditional upon meeting the right woman...much the way tinkerbell described the knowing when she met her husband. not sure that's typical...but at this stage of my life...i have a hard time imagining it happening any other way.

 

I'd say you fall right within the bell curve about men's attitudes about having kids at your age, with this. Heck, with child-rearing happening later and later, a lot of women are of this mindset, too. The big difference is that I think because women really do have only a set period of time to consider this (I'm not sure why that was designed that way -- it would seem to be a procreative boon to nature to keep fertility going as long as a woman is alive [unless nature sensed that taking care of infants when you're old and decrepit is a bad idea]), and men don't have this pressure upon them to crap or get off the pot by a certain age and make up their minds, for women the "some point" comes into clearer focus more urgently and sooner than men, as it must.

 

And at a certain age, what this means for a woman is that "the right man" starts to include some things it might not have before, or what was peripheral before becomes dealbreaking, if she wants to make motherhood happen. I know this happened for me.

 

I'd be surprised if men go through this transition when considering a partner as they get older. But I could be wrong.

 

So I'm wondering if, as this relates to you, you've considered this question: what if you met "the right woman" who possessed all the qualities you'd want in a life partner in every other aspect. And it was mutual, and otherwise you were really good together -- BUT! she was either through having kids (if she'd had them) or didn't want them. How would you feel about that and how would it affect your decisions, given you want them "at some point"?

 

i think i can relate a bit to what you're saying though. i sometimes wish there were more women who weren't deadset on the notion of being mothers. obviously i don't know what the motherly instinct feels like...but there are those women who are able to keep it at bay. while they desire children...they are not consumed by that desire. life still has substance for them without the realization of that desire.

 

Think about it this way.

 

Have you ever seen these interviews with musicians (or doctors, or anyone else at the top of their field) who says, "I was born to do this -- I knew I wanted this from the time I could think"?

 

How do you suppose wanting to be a mother (or parent) might be different? For some people, their calling is spelled out to them from the time they are being potty trained and showing a love and aptitude for something in their environment, and that just grows over time. I would call that "consuming", but it's not a bad thing. In fact, I think knowing that one wants something in such a focused way is a blessing that not everyone gets. And socially, it's not only sanctioned, but celebrated.

 

For some, this may be playing the guitar; for others, treating patients (starting with their dolls). For others, dancing or athleticism.

 

And for still others, it's the desire to plant a seed and watch it grow to fruition, watering it and providing the right soil and light conditions in its early stages, so that one day it's flourishing on its own -- only this is a dividing cell, then an embryo, then a fetus, then an infant, then a child, then an adolescent, then a teenager, then an adult. And after that, a person you have a unique bond with no matter what their path in this world, because how many other people have you gotten to know from the day they were conceived?

 

Watching the changes and the process, and being part of this progression -- teaching, learning, having to face challenges together, enjoying day-to-day activities, sharing a love and respect even when it gets hard, and working to be your best for another person, a person you're not just going to leave or break up with, or stop loving when it gets hard -- this is what I think the "calling" of parenting is, at least for me. What an immense challenge. So for someone to define their role and their place in this world by doing this well -- seems to me every bit as admirable and respectable as choosing any other source of fulfillment and "self-worth." But it gets disparaged because it's so common.

 

I think there are some circumstances where wanting a child for "all the wrong reasons" happens. So yes, someone can want children for the "wrong" reasons. For instance, a high school student who gets pregnant and just wants to have someone who loves her back (because she's been unloved herself), or to give her life some meaning and structure (because she sees/has no other). Or, someone who does it just because they're from a conservative family and it's just expected and they never question it. Or, someone like my father, who pretty much was the antithesis of Gibran's message, which is why this thread is kind of like walking on hot coals for me. He was good with infancy -- but shortly thereafter, discovered that kids were individuals with desires and hopes and dreams that may or may not conform with his, and the less control he realized he had as the children grew older, the more he tried to wrest that control back. He told me when I was a teenager (and I was a "good kid"!) that had he known parenting would be like this, he wouldn't have had us. He maintained this position for the rest of his days. So. There is an example of a man who should have never had kids, even though he said that he always felt life would be incomplete for him unless he did -- this is even though he had other interests, professional commitments and life objectives as well. He said that after the fact, he realized life could have been full -- and without the heartache -- without children.

 

But examples like these don't mean that feeling "incomplete" or that your life is incomplete without seeing out your goals of becoming a parent is something to view negatively. I know we all talk about how to be "complete" without any other person, usually in the dating forums. And that's true. And ultimately, it's true accross the board -- we should feel complete no matter who is or isn't in our life, and I'm at a point where I'm having to pull on that mantra big time. But what bothers me about this is that no one would tell a scientist or gold medalist, "You're too consumed by your goals -- you should be happy without them," yet they don't say that about the hardest job in the world, which to me is still parenting. There's a bias in people's minds (and it seems you may share this, maybe partially as a product of your environment) that "all I want is to be a good mother" is somehow more about having a void and a lack than a calling, and I think that's unfortunate. It's dangerous not to have any other interests as well -- because life won't always revolve around your children, especially when they are full-grown and out of the nest (even though being a parent is a lifelong investment, even after 21). But I think part of being a good mother IS having other interests so that you live and model a well-rounded life.

 

I don't feel that my life is "insubstantial" or that I'm "worthless" without having children. But nor do I feel my life mission is complete without it. Again -- be careful about false dichotomies.

 

Just some things rolling through my mind.

 

*ducks out again*

[Lamour detruit]

I wouldn't mind having kids at some point. Not at this age, because I want to be able to set up a successful life by myself first before I think about others. The reason why I would want kids is for the mere reason that I want to be able to give that love back for my kids that my parents provided for me, and to share that bond with my kids, and the woman I'd have them with.

 

Which is where the but comes in. I don't think kids are necessary to lead a happy, or satisfied life. There is nothing wrong with not having kids, nor is it selfish not to decide not to (on the contrary, getting kids when you know its not for you, that would be selfish). For me it would be more important to be with a woman who's perfect for me, than to agree on this specific matter. Kids are not a necessity for personally, so if I found the perfect girl, yet kids were out of the question, or she couldn't even have kids...I'd be okay with that.

[tiredofvampires]

I know we all talk about how to be "complete" without any other person, usually in the dating forums. And that's true. And ultimately, it's true accross the board -- we should feel complete no matter who is or isn't in our life

 

Just as a small caveat though, I'd like to qualify what I said here that this, too, is not all it seems.

 

That's another one of those statements that come with flip-sides -- as much yes as no.

 

As much as "you complete me" withers me on the vine as a statement (whoever "you" is)...nor do I feel any of us are complete without relationships (and by that, I mean whichever types we decide to invest in).

 

For anyone who doubts it, I'd say imagine being transported to a barren planet where you're the only person around. You have enough necessities to physically survive, but there are no people. And it's for life.

 

Complete unto yourself?

 

LOL

 

If you believe that human beings are an ever-shifting composite of shaping forces, everything we do and experience completes us.

[OptomisticGirl]

I knew TOV would it explain it so much better than any of us, lol

 

I think we have to complete ourselves as well as having others who complete us - I know who I am by myself but L completes me on a different level as our kids will complete me in a different way.

[tiredofvampires]

I'd rather be at a casino than a ballet recital or a little league game. My dad did all those things with me,

 

This is the first I've heard you had ballet.

 

Nahaha...sorrrrryyyyy, couldn't help myself!...