Why do you want children??

[lostnscared]

I agree backup plans don't always work but I guess I fail to see how someone who doesn't have a back up plan is more prepared than someone who does.

 

That's the thing, neither is MORE prepared in my opinion. To me having a backup plan means that you think the original plan may not work out--or else why would you have a plan B? Having that "what if it doesn't work out" or "it may not work out" is negative thinking to me and can even manifest itself into the very situation you are trying to prevent--that is my opinion. I do prepare myself for certain things, but I prepare myself for the things that I WANT to happen. My boyfriend, and others create a backup plan for things that they don't want to happen and want to be prepared if they do happen.

 

My bf always has PLAN B's--it's funny because even with his plan b's, those plans end up not working either--then what should he create a plan C, or a plan d? Why not just trust that things will work out? I guess that's why I say I'm more faith-based. Like most people I have moments of doubt, fear, sometimes I think things can go wrong, sometimes I get afraid that they will. Like I said everyday this week I have woke up feeling as though I'm going to hurl at the thought that I'll have to go through labor in 2 months. So I have doubts, and "what-if" moments too. I guess the thing is when I feel "sick" or find myself drifting into that frame of thought where I'm worrying about everything going bad or not going as I want--I quickly try to redirect my thoughts to more positive ones, and I say positive affirmations, reassure myself, and try to trust that things will work out as I want them to and as they should.

[lostnscared]

Abuse? I didn't read the other posts in this thread--so I'm lost. Actually I do believe that children do choose their parents even before the children are made--their spirits so to speak choose the people and the environments they want to be born into. That's not to say that the child wants to be abused or is even aware that the abuse will happen--though the spirit may have an inkling and choose to go on that journey or may not. As I said most people do not purposely or intentionally WANT to be in bad situations. And we do not have control over other peoples actions.

 

A child cannot control what another person does to them. I cannot control what my bf does. People cannot control the actions of others--I don't think I ever said that. I can control what I do to myself, the situations I put myself in, and so on. A child getting abused by an adult, did not do that to themselves or create it, that adult did. A married person cannot make their spouse be faithful. If that makes sense. I cannot make my boyfriend adopt my line of thoughts or my beliefs(I wish I could lol) so me and him do have many disagreements about back up plans and other things. When I said that is what "bf is for" I was being silly, lol. My bf has more of a mothering instinct than I do, and is more responsible than me in a lot of situations--so yes if he wants to be the one to worry about our children being molested, raped, or bullied, then I suspect he'll also be the one creating back up plans and teaching them to avoid those situations. Whereas for me, honestly I don't think about those things--I just don't want to.

[OptomisticGirl]

So could it also be denial then on some level? No one wants their child molested, ever, but to not prepare them for the evil people in the world simply because one doesn't want to think about it... It's a bit naive IMO.

[tiredofvampires]

Yeah, I had a feeling that you probably were of the school of thought that we choose our parents and circumstances we were born into, based on some of your other statements. I think it's a fascinating topic of conversation, but out of respect for the OP's thread staying on topic (hahaha, too little too late!) and not moving into questionable content, I'll just leave it at this -- I believe the best way to empower people in this life is acknowledge when they have been victimized, and not even philosophically/ideologically "blame the victim", while encouraging them to direct their attention to positive currents of thought and awareness of their obstacles. I think what you do with your mind is constructive, but the backdrop is not helpful for people. (As for the abuse statement, you can't claim that a child both chose that situation, so was in control of it, and at the same time didn't choose it and isn't in control of it. Can't have it both ways.)

 

You said that we are completely in control of our own outcomes. That would include controlling other people, too, because what happens to us involves the other players on the field at all times. We are not islands unto ourselves, and are interconnected.

 

It sounds like you and your bf have a pretty good complementarity going on. You probably help him from spiraling downward in catastrophic thinking with "faith", and meanwhile, he keeps you tethered to the earth where actual things are happening on the ground. We need both aspects to live on this earth.

[OptomisticGirl]

Because things dont always work out the way you want, you yourself are a prime example. you thought you wanted kids and after getting pregnant realised if you knew then what you know now about your fear or parenting you most likely would have waited or never had kids - it clearly didn't work out the way you wanted. Life isn't about roses and sunshine, it's hard and you dint always get what you want. If you did, no one ewoukd ever work toward anything.

[lostnscared]

I realize that people have been in horrible situations and certainly feel sympathy and empathy. My mom grew up in an abusive home, and had a HORRIBLE childhood and adulthood. But she too believes in what I believe in(ironically). I always encourage and say positive things to people who feel that maybe life did deal them a bad hand, or who are hurting or suffering, because I do believe that we are all connected and I try to see myself in everyone. However, I also want people to realize that they can have control over their lives in ways that could benefit them if they choose to. I don't really like the victim mentality--because I've been there before and it didn't benefit me, so I try not to take that approach with others. My friend called me the other day complaining because she was broke, with 4 kids, an abusive nonworking husband, and felt like she had nowhere to go. I sympathized with her, offered her positive solutions, but also told her that in many ways she does have CONTROL over what happens from here on out--it's up to her.

In terms of you saying you can't have it both ways--you CANNOT control someone. Controling someone has little to do with YOUR life. Someone's else life is not your own. So while I could WANT to control my boyfriend and get him to think like me, I cannot. I have no control over HIM. I have control over me. And the situations and people I CHOOSE to interact with. From there, I cannot control or "wish" that someone does things my way. A child CAN choose their parents, choose to be born to parents that may be impoverished, or that may have abusive tendencies, BUT that does not mean they have control over the ACTIONS of their parents. They cannot get their parents to treat them a certain way, their parents have to make the choice. That is my belief on it--people can only control outcomes that correlate with themselves, not others--that is why we have freewill. We cannot control people, only ourselves. And yes we are interconnected but that does not mean that we have mind control over ANOTHER persons thoughts and actions which are their own. The one thing we all have that cannot be violated is our OWN thoughts. No one knows what we are thinking, unless we verbalize it. They can certainly influence our thoughts and our beliefs and even our actions, but they have no control over what we choose to do, or focus on.

[lostnscared]

Because things dont always work out the way you want, you yourself are a prime example. you thought you wanted kids and after getting pregnant realised if you knew then what you know now about your fear or parenting you most likely would have waited or never had kids - it clearly didn't work out the way you wanted. Life isn't about roses and sunshine, it's hard and you dint always get what you want. If you did, no one ewoukd ever work toward anything.

 

Yes but I got the outcome I wanted--I wanted children and I am pregnant LOL. I focused on it for months and it happened. And that is what I mean, I focused on the outcome. Doesn't mean I have to like the outcome. I am happy to be having children, but still have fear, that doesn't mean it didn't work out the way I wanted--I am not a parent YET lol--it just means that like most human beings I have a fear of the unknown. To me life can be about roses and sunshine--and yes you don't always get what you want(I guess), but for me a majority of the time I have, and the correlation is that typically when I did get what I wanted, it was because I was focused on a favorable outcome. I'm not saying this is true for others, but for me it has been. I can't say that life has been hardwork or anything like that for myself--but I know others like my boyfriend and friends DO believe that life is hardwork, that their is suffering, that you don't get what you want, and so on. I just don't feel that way. I believe that everything that has happened to me good and bad has been what I wanted even if I wasn't aware at the time, or if it was a bad situation.

[tiredofvampires]

Well, now we agree a little more, with your last post. Because I do believe we only have control over ourselves.

 

But that's not what you originally said. You said (I've bolded part):

 

Yes I do believe that people are in control of all their outcomes--including the bad ones and the bad situations they end up

 

By this statement and the others you've made, I am in control of ALL my outcomes, which would mean the situations we encounter with other PEOPLE included. As this applies to the topic at hand, if we do not think about the negative outcome of someone molesting my child, or someone crashing their car into my child, these things will not happen. I will keep molesters away from my child by imagining they will never enter our lives. I will keep drunk drivers away from my child by imagining that drunks will steer clear of my child, literally. So I'm controlling other people this way, by my "positive thinking." And because I'm just THAT powerful, I don't need to tell my child about strangers with candy, or to look both ways when they cross the street. Because if we just think good thoughts about people not doing these things, people won't do these things to us.

 

I agree with OG -- that's denial.

 

I once focused all my attention on the visualization of the OUTCOME of a certain man falling in love with me. I "decided" that's the OUTCOME I wanted. And according to what you've said, I'm in control of ALL my outcomes, so that should've worked. But you've also said we can't order the outcomes that involve other people. So I guess it depends what we mean when we say "all." Maybe it's more limited than your original statements, and I'd agree with those limitations.

 

If you say you wanted everything you got, even the things you didn't want, and are in control of everything as well as not in control of everyone, all at once, I guess NO MATTER what, that is a failsafe belief system. You can't find a loophole there, because you've covered all your bases pretty darned well. Even though they aren't all consistent, the sum total of them covers it all. Convenient, I'd say.

[lostnscared]

I think your misunderstanding me, or I'm not explaining myself well--but NOPE we cannot control other people. We just can't. When I say all outcomes that happen to me, it doesn't have anything to do with others in the sense that I can control what others do to me. I can however have positive thoughts and feelings so that when I interact with others they treat me in a similar manner, I can also choose to respond to them in certain ways, or choose to avoid people that could inflict harm on me(if I thought they were). But nope I don't believe that you can make someone love you or fall in love with you. You can focus though on meeting a man and falling in love, however that does not mean that you can make MAN A love you--it means that you can direct a situation in your life to which MAN B comes in it and loves you. If that makes sense.

 

I've always said that everything that has happened to me good and bad is a result of myself. But it just so happen that MORE positive things(good things) have happened in my life than bad, and in many ways, I've had a ton of favorable outcomes that I WANTED to happen actually happen.

 

I don't think it's denial to not focus on rape, molestation, etc. Those things DO occur. I just choose not to think about them. I can be aware they exist without having to focus on "what if that happens to bobby sue"--I mean why would even think in that direction? To me that's morbid and negative. Maybe it is denial, but to me I'd rather think positive things about Bobbie sue.

[tiredofvampires]

Well, it sounds like we agree that we can only control ourselves.

 

As for the rest, it's not MY idea of responsible parenting to not warn a child that bad people can hurt it, that cars can hit it, to not teach it that danger exists in the world, and how to protect itself. If you think a toddler should just ride in a car without a carseat (because a carseat implies protection in the event of a crash), that you don't need to put a bandaid on your child's cut (because a bandaid implies an infection could set in), and that you shouldn't babyproof your house so that a curious baby doesn't fall down the stairs or stick something into the electrical socket (because babyproofing means all these things could happen), then I totally disagree. But it sounds like your bf has that covered, so it's all good.

 

There's a difference between being positive and being Pollyanna.

[OptomisticGirl]

You would think them to prepare your child not to go with strangers with candy or go with someone who says 'mommy is hurt, she wants you to come with me.' if you don't think of the scenarios that these evil people can do and teach your child to try to avoid them, what exactly is the role of the parent? Are we not suppose to give our children our knowledge snd wisdom and teach them the ways of the world? No one focuses or thinks about how their child will react if molested - but they think sbout how to prevent them happening as much as possible. Many people have thought oh my child won't be s rape statistic - and they ended up being so.

[civilservant]

I wonder how youll take it when something (inevitably) goes seriously wrong in your life. It could be tatamount to losing a religion for you. I get the whole positive attitude thing, but to not even consider negative outcomes leaves you in a very vulnerable position if it does.

[tiredofvampires]

^Out of reps for a while, for you, CS.

[lostnscared]

The babies will have a car-seat, lol. I think you guys are reading into it too much. Just because I don't choose to focus on rape, murder, etc doesn't mean that I'm not going to put a helpless baby in a car-seat or watch and monitor to them. I don't know I haven't really thought about baby-proofing and teaching my children about strangers, etc. That just hasn't been on my radar. Maybe once I actually become a parent that will change, but I mean I just don't think about things like that. I take things one stage at a time. For instance, I think about once the babies come, the routine I'll have to set up. But I haven't thought pass that because the toddler years are years away from where the babies will be two months from now. I don't think about what talk I will have with them at 4, 5, or 10. I'm always changing, and who know's what I'll believe about those things when the time comes. I think sometimes people think too much(just my opinion). For instance I think it's premature for me to think about what my child will be like at 18, or what my child may be like at 2 or 3 when they aren't even here yet. I'll also go on to say that I think it was silly LAST year when I was talking about parenting and how I would parent when I wasn't even a parent yet--it was overanalyzing a situation that had not occurred and may not be at all like I think it will be.

My boyfriend thinks far ahead--he already is planning on teaching them how to fight to avoid bullying since it's an epidemic. Where for me, I thought it was silly he was thinking about that, when the children won't be going to school for another 5 years. lol.

[lostnscared]

I wonder how youll take it when something (inevitably) goes seriously wrong in your life. It could be tatamount to losing a religion for you. I get the whole positive attitude thing, but to not even consider negative outcomes leaves you in a very vulnerable position if it does.

 

I never said I don't consider negative outcomes. I only said I don't focus on them. Like I said before--I am human, like most humans, I have fears, doubts, worries, etc. I DO find myself thinking about "bad" things. It's a mental battle for me. When I find myself considering situations I wouldn't want to occur, I just change my thoughts onto what I'd rather occur if I were in that situation. Things have gone seriously wrong in my life before and I dealt with it and moved on--as I said I tried to commit suicide when I was 16, last year around this time I overdosed. I bounced back. But like I said, my approach is to go with the flow of life, understanding that certain things will happen(even bad things potentially) and accept them and be "free" enough to not resist or fight against them and then move on or detour.

[OptomisticGirl]

It's fine to live in the moment but when you have children, you aren't afforded that luxury. Peoples views change and how thy react but your core values never do.

[lostnscared]

You would think them to prepare your child not to go with strangers with candy or go with someone who says 'mommy is hurt, she wants you to come with me.' if you don't think of the scenarios that these evil people can do and teach your child to try to avoid them, what exactly is the role of the parent? Are we not suppose to give our children our knowledge snd wisdom and teach them the ways of the world? No one focuses or thinks about how their child will react if molested - but they think sbout how to prevent them happening as much as possible. Many people have thought oh my child won't be s rape statistic - and they ended up being so.

 

Read the post I wrote to TOF. I have not thought about the "stranger" talk, because I will have babies in 2 months not toddlers--no point in focusing on "future" talks. For instance I could say what I would say to the children at 3 or 4, but once they get 3 or 4 maybe I will have changed my mind about what I will say or how I will address the topic. So why not just focus on that topic when the times come and not before? I used to spend so much time focusing on probable situations, and each time I got in them, I found that my reactions, and my decisions and actions were different than what I planned. For instance last year, I said I would have 3 or 4 kids, would buy hand me down furniture, would not pay for their entire tuition, and so on. And I've changed my mind since then--I don't know how many kids I'll be having until I deal with the ones I'm currently having, I'm not buying hand me down furniture, and I am now thinking about investing in their educations. Things change. People do.

It is a parent's job to guide their children through life, and protect them, but also to teach them and encourage them to have the lifes they want--which I will do.

[tiredofvampires]

But at least you've gotten a car seat -- because a car crash could happen, and you want your child protected.

 

That's SMART, not negative.

 

Planning ahead has prevented many outcomes I didn't want. Which is the flip side of having the outcomes you DO want.

[OptomisticGirl]

You don't have to think about how you will have the talk, even I haven't dine that - but the way you werr writing you weren't even going to consider talking with them because you believe if you think positive, it will happen.

[lostnscared]

It's fine to live in the moment but when you have children, you aren't afforded that luxury. Peoples views change and how thy react but your core values never do.

 

What do core values have to do with choosing not to visualize about a "potential" conversation that I will have with my child about strangers that will take place years from now? Why wouldn't I think about that conversation when the child gets to that age where that would be an issue? Why am I worrying about things that aren't important in the here and now? That is what I am saying. The babies aren't even born yet, and your asking me to talk about how I will talk to them about strangers, and molestation lol. I mean sure I could say what I think I MIGHT say but who know's what I will say in a conversation that will take place when I'm 3 or 4 years older, and maybe in a different place or better yet a different person.

 

And I do believe core values can change. My values about life, my beliefs about myself, others, etc continue to evolve as I get older. The beliefs and core values I had last year are not the same as the ones I have this year. Though I'm sure a lot of people will have the same core values their entire lives--I just don't.

[lostnscared]

But at least you've gotten a car seat -- because a car crash could happen, and you want your child protected.

 

That's SMART, not negative.

 

Planning ahead has prevented many outcomes I didn't want. Which is the flip side of having the outcomes you DO want.

 

I haven't gotten carseats yet. I've only bought baby furniture, and some smaller baby items(sleepers, blankets, etc). But I am getting carseats but not because of the car crashing... I'm getting the carseats because how else are they going to sit in the car LOL?

 

I didn't even think that a carseat correlates with accidents. I've always thought the reason you have a carseat is so the baby can sit in the car.

 

I have planned ahead, but I don't plan too far ahead, as in years ahead. For instance as I was telling OG, pages ago, I've already bought nursery furniture, even though the babies probably won't be sleeping in their nursery until they are 3 months. Or I'm having a baby shower so that I have items already available for when they come. I just don't plan ahead to the point where I'm thinking about where I'll be a year from now, or how things will be with the babies, a year from now...That is what I mean.

[lostnscared]

You don't have to think about how you will have the talk, even I haven't dine that - but the way you werr writing you weren't even going to consider talking with them because you believe if you think positive, it will happen.

 

I'm honestly not sure if I will have the talk with them or not. I just don't know--that's a talk that won't take place for a while, so I really haven't thought about it. Maybe my bf will have talk with them, or my mom, or somebody else. Or maybe I will... I mean I don't know. You guys are bringing up so many scenarios that I honestly just have not thought about or entertained because they seem so far away from the current reality--which is that I'll have newborns in 2 months. That is what I'm focused on, not anything else.

[90_hour_sleep]

due consideration where consideration is due?

 

recogntion and acknowledgement of future possibilities...events...but always with primary focus on the current step? if you're always a 'step ahead'...it doesn't always leave much room for living. it's a constant projection away from the current reality.

 

bit of a juggling act...and something that seems very difficult to explain without misunderstanding. i don't think it has anything to do with a blatant disregard for possible 'dangers'...or undesirable outcomes. like you say...it's a difference of focus. you've elected to make what's right before you the primary. if/when something arises...it will become primary. there's alot to be said for prevention...but where do you draw the line with that motive? while i'm sure we can agree on many of the perceived 'dangers' that are out there...there will be a diverse array of opinion as to how likely such an event is to occur...and as such...how much emphasis that particular possibility warrants. very VERY subjective in every way.

 

and i do happen to agree that on very general (and sometimes specific) terms, we are quite capable of attracting certain things into our lives...perhaps in the form of energy that contributes to a state of mind where negative outcomes are much more likely. frame of mind can be a huge influence...not only in how we attract others...but on how we behave. perhaps on the most unconsious level...if you've allotted excesses of energy to preservation...you're somewhat more predisposed to things going wrong. i've certainly been witness to this in my own circumstances.

 

there's definitely a distinction here between complete ignorance...and a decision not to devote excesses of one's time and energy into exploring future threats or outcomes.

 

this whole thread feels like a seguay into the topic of control. because really...everything that's been discussed in the last few pages relates directly to a need to be squarely in control. and the deep-seated fear of losing control. everything we do is in habitual response to maintaining that.

 

i tend to believe that if a mother neglects to tell her child to practice looking both ways...and that child is struck and killed while crossing the street one day...that's exactly as it should be. could it have been prevented? possibly. but perhaps that very act of prevention would've set into motion other events that lead to a seemingly less tragic but more untimely death. i think sometimes we have no conscious notion of how our reality will truly be affected by our actions. we have expectations...but expectations are not the same as knowing.

 

fear of the unknown. fear of 'death' in all it's incarnations.

[tiredofvampires]

What's interesting is that whether you are talking about focusing your energy on a positive outcome or a negative outcome, it's still about the need to control the outcome.

 

I think living in the here and now is essential to one's ability to do what's right at any given time and to meet the reality of that "now." In fact, all we have is NOW.

 

But to extrapolate from that that we should not plan ahead is dualistic thinking. Either/or.

 

Anyone who says, "I'll cross that bridge when I get to it" gets my vote, if it's something they are in no position to affect in any meaningful way now. But if they say, for instance, "Had I thought ahead more, I wouldn't be pregnant now. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't have had kids, but now I'm making the best of it" does not inspire me with confidence in lack of foresight. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm trying to explain how a philosophy that sounds really good as a one-size-fits-all ideal in the abstract can encounter some discrepancies in the living-out.

 

This is why I've had problems applying notions like this to real life. Even though I also believe in attractive/repulsive energy. I believe choosing not to think of something unpleasant that may be appropriate and relevant is another trap of aversion. And aversion in any form has its energetic consequences, no?

 

Living in the here and now and facing everything in life that exists without aversion, for me is the most liberating position. It's okay to control what I can (or, believe I can). And it's just as important to let go when I know I have no control (which takes into account my not being omniscient and all-powerful). Just like the 12-step saying goes.

 

Being able to know when to let go and doing so successfully is just about the hardest thing in the world. But for me, it doesn't mean avoiding anything.

[lostnscared]

I think you understand exactly what I mean. LOL. You've pretty much said a lot of what I wanted to say but you said it better than I could. To me always worrying about the next step, next stage, what could go wrong, what-if's, and so on, is not living. It's living in fear. And also to me it's about trying to control things, rather than going with the flow of life, and living life. For me it is far easier to go with the flow, and live in the present, than to live in the past, or try to prepare or control everything for a future. But I so agree with you. Even before I was pregnant, I never thought about my child being kidnapped, molested, raped, or anything... I don't even watch the news for that reason (I believe it perpetuates fear in people). It's one thing to be aware of things that DO happen, but another to focus on those things and even think about the possibility of them happening to us or the ones we love. TO me when you start thinking in that direction, it just does no good--beyond causing you to worry, overanalyze, and create a hypothetical solution that may not even be a solution or prevent it from happening. Parents of kidnapped children, did not fail to have the talk with their child about strangers--many of them will say they DID have the talk, they did watch their child, and so on--but these situations happened ANYWAY. They may or may not have been prevented even if the talk had or had not occurred. What is life if your constantly resisting it or planning it out, or worrying?