Why do you want children??

[tiredofvampires]

So...this is a bit of a thread bump, as I know it's cooled off for some time now. But I'd intended to get back to responding to some of your thoughts here, sleepy.

 

Even though some of this is quite off the tracks from the theme of your thread, here...but I feel safe enough that it'll relate well enough, in one way or another, for you.

 

it's always about control.

 

Yes. And that's why I have a love-hate (leaning towards rejection) relationship with a lot of the New Age-isms out there that speak in terms of "being positive" -- as generic as that idea is. As an aside, there are some philosophies floating around out there that to me, are about as fundamentalist (read: rigid and cookbook) as any other brand of fundamentalism, only they use "positive thinking" as doctrine. I once in a while talk about being "positive" or being "negative" in one's attitudes here and elsewhere in life, but VERY sparingly because I've yet to find anyone who's being "negative" in their outlook that is ever really helped by being told to be "positive" (myself included!!) That's kind of like going to a doctor with a bellyache, and being told, "My diagnosis: abdominal pain." First of all -- DUH. Most people have already figured that out, and are taking it for granted as a given. Second, that's so non-specific that it doesn't give me an idea where the problem actually LIES. Third, it gives me no idea how to "cure" it, because I don't know where the problem lies. It just labels me as having something detrimental to me with the nebulousness of being told that I'm a harm to myself, but I kind of knew that -- it's how to extricate myself and all the causes that need to be explored first before I can become more "positive." Being positive in my opinion is an outcome more than an act. It's the outcome of seeking to understand where blocks to it are coming from. So it's one of those catch-words (and catch-ideas) that don't feel beneficial for me for its non-specificity, and while it may work for some people, I mostly see it used as a mantra by people who are either not all that in touch with their own habitual negative patterns, or if they are, they're trying valiantly to just mask those over with the mantra, or they don't have much empathy for those who continue to get "stuck."

 

I'm all for visualizing good outcomes, and think affirmations can be quite appropriate -- I certainly do believe in self-fulling prophesies and autosuggestions, as well. But one must be discriminating, and not all situations are created equally. Unless you're born with a crystal ball (and need I say, none of us are?), it's preposterous to claim, "Such-and-such (some undesirable experience or outcome) is not going to happen -- because I don't allow my attention to go there." NO ONE can claim that such-and-such will not happen, even if it relates to one's own body, in one's skin, where one may feel in the most control. (It's pretty handy to claim that if the undesirable outcome happens, it was desired after all -- this explains away any nuisance discrepancies, so that the delusion one is in total control remains intact.) The problem with focusing on a "positive outcome" is indeed the element of reliance -- dependency -- on that outcome to be as we want it to be. Which is the need to control and the intolerance to the idea that one may not have it. This sets up a state of aversion to the unknowns in life, rather than an openness to them and a willingness to meet them prepared with the attitude that they can be met fearlessly and with equanimity. So inherent in building up the "positive outcome" EXPECTATION, there is already fear. Fear is the seed of needing it so badly that another alternative -- a less desirable one -- can't be even permitted to be entertained. In fact, I think all radical mindsets are grounded in FEAR. Why does anyone have a radical view? Because alternatives would rock the boat too much. They would cause too much contrast or contradiction to an ordered world that's been created in the mind. There is zero flexibility in that, and life requires flexibility to greet change on its terms. I don't think there's any radical philosophy I'd embrace -- even radical letting go, radical love, etc. (though that sounds pretty appealing) -- simply because radicalism means rejection of anything else that "doesn't fit."

 

I believe the best way to be "prepared" for life is to accept that it will sometimes be wonderful and sometimes awful, and everything in between -- and to strive to greet each of those extremes and all the shades in the middle with the same kind of readiness and openness. This is of course extremely difficult, but I think it's something to strive for.

 

And in the meantime, it's really good to focus our minds when possible and necessary on good projections for ourselves. Not with expectation, and not with certainty, but with sincerity. That is all that's needed.

[tiredofvampires]

I'm actually breaking up my answer into 2 -- because it'd be a hella long post all crammed into one -- and the subjects are different enough. I'll get it all in, yet!

 

 

 

I think this is one of those questions along the lines of, "if we are only to focus on the here and now, why even plan for the future?" Or, "if desire is the 'enemy', and by shedding desire we shed our misery, why should we ever want anything at all? Why even bother trying to do anything, if we don't desire it, why even strive or ENJOY something at all?"

 

You know, this is another one of those traps of purist thinking as well. It has to be "this" or "that." "Either/or," as you've said. Things have to be sublime OR mundane, they can't be both. They have to either be philosophically rarefied, or disappointingly pragmatic and worldly. We don't have to create these separations, even if there seem to be contradictions. BALANCE is the goal -- but it's a pain in the ass. It's frustrating to claim that we can want something and be able to not want it at the same time. It's annoying to say that desire and passion are awesome to be emersed in, but then one should maintain an ability to divest when the time comes. It's especially infuriating to suggest that one not live in the future, and yet claim that we should draw up plans for anything.

 

These contractions can only be reconciled with this -- the middle path. The golden mean.

 

There is a place for it all in my opinion, so for me, it's about knowing your palette and being able to work with it in a versatile way. It's not pragmatically sound to embrace a life of floating around completely nonattached to anything (and I would argue for some, that's actually quite a preferred way to live...and not at all "an unpleasant thought"; some people live like that to avoid things, and for THEM, it's a comfort not to have anything to tie them down, which is often just another facet of avoidance. So what you've said is only true for some people -- people who prefer stability as a concept.) Unfortunately, pragmatic common sense sounds dishearteningly mundane, but I don't believe it's incongruous with dismantling aversion or even attachment. Some have said, "being in the world but not of the world," and I (as you may notice, ha), like that particular way of describing it.

 

So, why pursue pleasantness and comfort, and avoid unpleasantness, if that's a form of "avoiding"? Because it feels good not to suffer! And it's good to feel good (whoa, didn't see THAT coming, didya!), at ease and to have the conditions for happiness, satisfaction and enjoyment. Should we walk down dark alleys at night just because we don't want to be in "avoidance" of attackers? So here we have another koan -- another conundrum where the answer is so painfully simple that it would seem to make this whole "spiritual achievement" endeavor a bust, on some level. It's good to avoid danger, to attend to one's wellbeing, to arrange for a secure life that minimizes pain because there is no earthly reason to go seeking out the opposite. We can function better when we are comfortable and secure. So why would we not seek that out? But that doesn't mean that we are avoiding what MUST be faced, when it happens. Gratuitously bringing unpleasantness upon ourselves is POINTLESS. It achieves nothing. There is enough non-gratuitous unpleasantness being dished out in heaps on a regular basis that we have plenty enough fodder for learning how to deal with aversion more skillfully. We don't need to create or seek out circumstances that will harm us needlessly to learn what we need to. We don't need to abandon feeling good, having emotions, being desirous, and creating conducive situations to be aware. And awareness is what this is about -- not this or that condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've grouped these quotes together because they all relate to the last post you made.

 

I know this is a personal question for you, the nature of this thread...that this is coming from a personal need to understand something, even though the way you've presented the thread is more theoretical and as an "observer"/investigator (and more objective). Of course you know, I am totally at ease with intellectually-driven conversations. I thrive on them. And I'd say the threads on ENA break down somewhat into two groups -- those that are specific and personal, and those that are more theoretical and just fielding answers to something the OP is turning over in their mind, that's relevant to them in some undisclosed way. This thread would definitely fall into the latter category -- and there's nothing for you to have to defend about that. And, you don't have to spell out an agenda if you don't want to. It's just that I'm curious as to what your "aversion" is around this particular subject, and WHY the hold it has on you. Why this subject has become important as a focus for you. It would seem important to your life, since you created a thread about it. Feel no need to answer my curiosity -- it's just that it's there.

 

There is something about the third quote above -- where you ask when you will "catch the fever" that suggested to me you might be feeling...not so much left out...but wondering whether your own desire to have children is real, or to what extent it exists, without all the external pressure. I think what I've been saying in a few posts in various ways is that for me, wanting to have children is such an unmistakable sense of knowing, it's something I don't have to analyze in order to know it's real or sound. I'm not saying, "don't analyze." I'm saying that if a person has to intellectualize a great deal about whether indeed they want children and why (and that's a valuable thing to be doing) to know if it's real -- in my very humble opinion and experience, that person is one step removed from the actual desire (when it's genuine). A genuine desire does not need to be intellectualized, even though it's all for the better to be able to verbalize what is already known deep within.

 

Please don't misunderstand me...I'm not suggesting that you don't want to be a father, or that you're not father material. I think in fact, you could make a very good one (and you have a playful quality that I can see going very well with children). You're very young still, so there is no hurry to try to "define" or decide this. I don't know what your destiny is in this regard any more than you do, and I wouldn't really wish to wager, either. What I sense though about, "when will I catch the fever?" is that right now, having children is a bit more of a remote (and therefore, more intellectual) interest for you, not a distinct, burning wish for fatherhood. And I think that sets the tone for this thread, on your own end. That's not a judgment one way or the other, it's just how I sense where you're at personally, now.

 

But of course, there is much you haven't revealed about this wish/need/desire in your thoughts as it pertains to yourself...so that's as it is, unrevealed.

 

It also struck me that you've referred to fatherhood as being "a creator". I think that's one way of looking at it. I think as a mother, I'd see myself as sort of a co-creator or a conduit (if we're referring to the biological aspect of it).

 

I like what you said about the more you seek definitions for things, and to understand things on the level of thought...sometimes the more distanced one becomes from the true nature and meaning of things. Our "true nature" is pre-verbal, anyways. "Lack of definition" CAN be a blessing, yes. I wholly endorse that conclusion! I, who worship at the alter of precise definition! This has everything to do with what I said about "just knowing." Without the cerebral process getting in the way. I feel that my desire for parenthood/motherhood is one of those things I know is genuine and real BECAUSE I don't need my ever-clacking-away mind anymore. What a revelation!

 

And for me to say that -- you'd better know that says a lot. LOL.

 

Hope this finally did it some justice.

[lostnscared]

LOL. I just saw this. I don't see how my beliefs go too far as they could potentially harm someone in my care. I think I said this in another thread, but for the most part I go by what others believe. If a friend had a headache and she BELIEVED that the only way to cure it was to take tylenol then I would give to her, but I also would ask her if she was having too many scattered conflicting thoughts, if there was self criticism going on, or if she was having a hard time accepting what is going on in her life at that present moment(what I believe a few of the causes of headaches to be). I would probably comment, "Be aware of what it is you are thinking" or "are you being hard on yourself about something" or "how are you feeling about your life"--but I still would comply by whatever method she believed would work.

But for the most part, I don't have friends/family coming to me asking me for advice about illnesses, conditions, pregnancy etc. If they ask, I'll tell them how I feel, but other than that I leave it alone, and keep my thoughts about it to myself. I have several pregnant family members and friends right now and whenever they complain about pregnancy symptom and ask me if I'm feeling the "same" symptom I just tell them "no" and that I'm focusing on having a different sort of pregnancy and I move on. Some of them will inquire about what I mean, others will just brush it off. I've only lost ONE friend about my beliefs--and I won't even say I lost her, but she just isn't as close with me. She has been very skeptical about some of the things that have been going on in my life that I've materialized and doesn't understand or agree with my philosophy in how I've materialized them. And she has NEVER been pregnant before but tried to tell me what symptoms I should expect and talk to me about childbirth to which I told her my beliefs and she got very upset and didn't talk to me for a few weeks.

I don't like medicine or doctors, but a young child most likely would not comprehend why they are sick or whatnot in the way I would, so most likely if my child has a cold or sore throat I would treat it with medicine(as much as I dislike that). I'm thinking about taking my children to naturopathic doctors.

For the most part I will not force my beliefs on others--but if they ask I'll tell them. I'm aware, though, that a lot of people find it offensive or think my philosophy is wrong, flawed, or "harmful". Honestly it doesn't bother me one bit.

[Batya33]

It's very considerate and insightful of you to explain your philosophy in the way you do - I know I'd feel comfortable hearing you share your philosophy in the way that you do because of your understanding that you shouldn't - and don't want to - impose it on others.

 

TOV what you said about the desire to have children is how I felt but I can relate to people who aren't as clear on the issue and have to give it more thought. I don't think that has to affect whether they will be good parents - I agree with you.

[OptomisticGirl]

I agree, anyone who is on the fence about kids but has them, doesn't make them less of a parent or mean they are going to be any worse of a parent than someone like me who has always wanted kids. If anything, i kind of envy those who aren't sure. While I have never wavered on this desire and know it's what I want, even if I am only 23 and haven't 'lived life' according to some people's standards I also know that because it's what I have always wanted and I know so much about babies - my own best friend turned to me before a pregnancy book when my niece was a baby - I'm going to hold myself to a very high standard when it comes to raising my own kids, and I'm more than sure I won't meet that. I know I won't, because anytime you have a expectation bar set on something as flexible as babyhood/parenting, you are not going to meet it. So those who don't want kids or don't know if they do and they have them, that bar of expectations of yourself is lower for them than it is for me, someone who has helped other people with their own kids.

 

And as my doctor said, makes me a prime canidate for PPD.

[tiredofvampires]

I can appreciate that people are on the fence or aren't clear on the issue, and need to weigh it out. And I don't think it's a predictor of what kind of parents they will be, for sure. But by the same token, I don't believe that someone who DOESN'T have the need to weigh it out is necessarily just going along some brainwashed script, blindly. They may really in fact KNOW.

 

I think stage of life has a lot to do with this as well. I was proposed to when I was 16 by a man in the army. And among other things (I couldn't see myself living that lifestyle, and I don't consider myself a "patriot" the way I'd have to be), I knew that I'd have to start having kids really soon. I just saw that as the future that'd be scripted for me. That terrified me. I didn't even feel like a woman yet, I didn't want to grow up yet even. And even through my 20's, though I knew I'd want children someday, I was dealing with a lot of other life events -- college and the pressures of that, preparing for grad school and a professional life (which was pre-empted by illness), breaking away from a very dysfunctional family, and all that came in tow with that. So if I'd found myself pregnant when I was still trying to solidify MYSELF, I would have had a monstrous choice in front of me. I'd have had to really weigh out what I wanted and why.

 

Now, it's completely different. Since my early 30's, it's been a steady drumbeat of urgency that's just grown and grown. So in the last decade, it's been nothing but certainty and clarity of vision in the matter. So I can easily appreciate women like OG who have always been that way, and it wouldn't be a blind desire.

 

I've seen many, many cases of people (both sexes) who were unsure if they wanted it, and then as a couple became pregnant and continued to be only tentatively pleased -- but once their babies arrived, it was a revelation. I remember my doctor telling me several stories (specifically about men) who had been adamant about not wanting kids because it would cramp their style, and then their wives became pregnant and after the baby was born -- these men had some kind of conversion experience. I've heard this again and again from men (including on this thread!), "What was I thinking before I had my child? What was I living for?" I've seen it with women, too (like my own sister), but in men it can be very dramatic because it took their child to bring out their latent paternalistic instinct. As though it wasn't working as a theory, but in facts on the ground, something just GELLED. I think the instinct of parental love is very powerful, more than many people imagine until it happens.

 

And while I don't think being uncertain means you'll be a worse parent later, what I've found is that of the people I've known who ended up not having children as a decision when they were uncertain, is they never left the intellectual, analyzing state. I guess that's what I'm saying -- that those who DON'T want children have never experienced or expressed a deep, visceral yearning, and it remained a "head thing" until they became clear about that. At least in my own observations.

[OptomisticGirl]

I agree with you completely TOV.

 

All the women who are my age who are parents (which, lets me honest, over half were not planned) are always telling me 'you're 23, you have plenty of time' or 'you haven't lived life yet'. It's rather insulting really, and it even comes from people older than me. We tend to lump people into these life stages and not take account that some people aren't of the mold. I'm not your average 23 year old - I wasn't even your average American teenager - but I'm still lumped in that 'average 23 year old' phase. *sigh* It's a sore point, sorry.

 

My mom actually made a comment a few days ago that I found thoughtful. She's watching my nephew 5 days a week, 24 hours a day - raising him, we shall say - and she's 44 or 45 (i can't remember, lol) I came home and could tell she had had a bad day so I took my nephew and was watching him when she made the comment 'I'm so glad I had my 3 when I was in my early 20's, I just don't have the energy for this that I did then.'

[lostnscared]

I don't think the people telling you that are trying to insult you or even "lump" you in a category. A lot of the women that have given this advice have had children, been there done that, and many of them had children when they were around your age, so they may just be giving you some helpful advice. They may even know a thing or two. Even a woman who's always had a desire to have children and be a mother, and whom never wanted to party can grow up and a decade later wake up and realize that she WISHES she did those things and that life is different, routine, etc. People change. Your wants and desires and feelings about children can remain the same(I think it will) but there is always a chance that you may look up and feel that there were things that you wish you had done before you had kids and so you may pass on that "word of advice" to those younger than you wanting children. I don't think it's meant to be harmful, or insulting toward you.

 

One thing though that you should be careful about is "average"--I think you'd be surprised at the number of people your age who have feelings as you do. I don't even think that there is an average 23 year old. I think there are a lot of woman who feel that way you do, but choose to wait because of finances, pressure, not meeting the right person, and so on. But I can tell you firsthand that I know many woman your age who have the same desires as you do(whether they party or not) and have the same "knowing" and "feelings" about children.

 

My mom feels the same way as your mom. She can't handle kids the way she did when she had us(mom had us when she was in her early twenties). Personally I always knew I wanted to be a young mom--I'm sure it's because my mom was a young mom, but also because I just couldn't fathom having kids at what I consider "middle-aged", and I was afraid fr the risks of not being able to have kids if I waited too long. I guess it was a fear in the back of my head, that if I waited until I was 30 like society tells us to--that there was a chance that I would have a hard time conceiving and/or that I wouldn't have the same energy or patience or youthfulness that I have now. I was even more afraid and probably wouldn't have considered having kids in my forties for my own personal reasons(so I guess in that way my desire for kids came with conditions).

[tiredofvampires]

OG, a lot of women who have not planned their pregnancies are projecting their regrets or doubts (even if they love their kids) about their life course onto you. Of course, you know that. But that's more about them than you. There's a big difference between them having the decision made "for" them accidentally and then going with that, and you planning for what you want and seeing it happen.

 

My sister always says she doesn't know what her life could be without her son, now...and questions some of the things she used to think were important. But she was one of those career women who really was about trying to make that her pride and joy. Even in her late 30's, she felt unprepared for her unplanned pregnancy. But now, with all the energy her son takes, she's talking about wishing she'd started all this sooner, when she was younger, adding that those women who have pregnancies in their 20's can then relax in the knowledge that their children are grown and then they can travel the world, do anything they please, and won't have to deal with feeling less physically at their peak (and her profession is athletic, so that's saying a lot -- but she's had a bumpy ride, too, and had PPD.) So lately she's been talking about "why did I wait so long?" (and she's 41, trying for another).

 

Women are at their peak fertility up until about 28. That remains a fact, regardless of everything else.

[lostnscared]

There are women who've planned pregnancies that also feel that way. My cousin planned her first two pregnancies(the third was an accident) and had children from the age of 23-30. She got married while in college, and literally started trying for kids once she found a stable career. She didn't regret it at the time, but now that she is 35 she does tell me(and did tell me when I told her I wanted kids last year) to wait until I was older. I do think that when you have children "unplanned" it can definitely bring up moments where you consider what your life would have been like had you waited or if circumstances were different and it was planned, but for the most part I think the funny thing about human beings is that there is always a feeling that something could've been done better, or that something could have waited. And I think that goes for both woman who may have planned pregnancies or unplanned pregnancies.

 

In my case I had always planned to have children young--matter of fact I wanted to have my first child by 25/26. And had written about this all last year. I got pregnant a year earlier than what I had intended so it wasn't a major big deal, because the only thing that would had changed had I waited a year is that I would have had more savings, and would have moved to another state--ironically I ended up moving to another state anyway this year, and ended up getting a lot of financial help and other things that I had wanted initially before having kids, so all the things that I was "waiting" for ended up falling into place anyway. So me waiting an extra year or two wouldn't have mattered as even now I have all the things I had initially planned for and wanted when I was thinking about having children. But I still tell my sisters to "wait", just because LOL.

 

I think OG will be fine honestly, but I can think of a few people I know that planned to have children young because like OG they had the same feelings, but later on realized that waiting may have been better, or they got older and realized that there were things they wanted to do that they wish they would have done before they had their children. Human beings are always growing and change is constant, so what a woman feels is important and plans for at 20 could always change at 30, 40, 50.

[OptomisticGirl]

But they are giving advice off how THEY lived before and how they wish they could live - and I agree, people do change and grow as they older but the basics of who we are, unless you go through a severe mid life crisis, stay the same. My stance now on drinking is the same as when I was a teenager - meh, and that comes from the fact that it wasn't hidden from me growing up. My grandma use to give me a cap full of Jack Daniels when I had a sore throat. Most people there parents say no, you can't drink and when they get to that teenage stage they want to know what all the fuss is about, so they go out and try it and it's this amazing thing to them because they know their parents disagree and they have never experienced it before. Me by that age had already tried it and it was blah, nothing exciting because I knew what it was for years. People who want to give me advice on being a parent I can live with but no, I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else 'you are missing out' when each person's lives are different and what they want is different. I went to school with a girl who partied like crazy when we were in school and is a parent now. She has told me before she wishes she could still do that and that I'm insane for wanting to give my chance to do that up - but I don't do it. There is a fine line to walk with advice.

 

When I say 'average' I mean how other people view people our age - they think because we are in our young 20's we want to party, get crap faced drunk and get as many notches under our dating belt as we can because 'that's what you are suppose to do in your 20's'. I'm aware other women my age have the same desire I do - but other aspects we differ widely. My own best friend is the best example. She loves shopping, she has to be out, she can't sit in on a weekend, she wants to be social. I'm just not like that. I hate shopping, I would much rather spend every Sat night in and I love to socalize but I need to do it in small dozes, as in hours or even 1 day. I like my 'me' time away from other adults - baby sitting doesn't bother me, I love playing with babies and watching them but me and other adults, no, we don't work.

 

I think that's why I have always wanted to be a young mom myself, I'm just a year or 2 older than my mom was when she had me. My ex's mom was like in her early to mid 30's when she had him so having kids later in life was his thing because that's what he was around.

[Seraphim]

Some women too just love to be mothers. My mom got a new little foster baby last night. She was 3 months premature and was released from the hospital last night.My mother is 65 and still raising babies. She says it is definitely harder to stay up all night now than when she had me when she was 20, but she can still do it. Plus today she was babysitting all her grand daughters 9,8,5, she has a foster daughter who is 13 and the new baby. My mom is definitely SUPER WOMAN. She has her own 2 kids, 3 step kids, 13 grand kids and has fostered dozens of children and babies. I could only aspire to be like her. She has a heart of gold and has given back to life more than I could ever dream of doing.

 

I always wanted to be a mother too and I was granted my beautiful son after 9 years of wishing and gave me 4 angels in the years after him. Being a mother has taught me so much more about life than I would have known had I not become one.

[OptomisticGirl]

I know TOV - it's just a sore spot with me. People my own age i can understand but it's when it comes from people older than me - even 3 years a girl at work! - who told me I'm going to throw my prime of life away changing diapers. I think she thought I was a nut case for being OKAY with that, really....

 

And it comes down to what the couple wants. L doesn't want to have kids past 40 for him (which would make me 36) and that is absolutely fine with me. yes, older women have healthy babies every day but it is a fact the older you get the more of a chance the baby could have a birth defect and I'm fine with that timeline. We want at least 3 though (I'm the oldest of 3 and I love my siblings, even if they make me want to suffocate them with a pillow sometimes!!!) so to have our kids spaced out in a way that doesn't drive us or our fiancnes crazy, we were always going to have to start young.

[Seraphim]

^ Be careful though with concrete plans though OG. Life has surprises. I thought I could have lots of kids too, not so. It took me 9 years to have my son. We did not use protection for 9 YEARS and I did not get pregnant. So don't hold too rigidly to a schedule because you could end up severely disappointed.

[OptomisticGirl]

^ Be careful though with concrete plans though OG. Life has surprises. I thought I could have lots of kids too, not so. It took me 9 years to have my son. We did not use protection for 9 YEARS and I did not get pregnant. So don't hold too rigidly to a schedule because you could end up severely disappointed.

 

Oh I agree 100%. We could end up not having kids - which would be my worst dream ever - and have to go IVF or adoption. I say this is what we will and this is what we have planned (and while we HAVE planned for it) we also know it's just like a deck of cards, we have to deal with the hand the universe deals us.

[Seraphim]

Oh I agree 100%. We could end up not having kids - which would be my worst dream ever - and have to go IVF or adoption. I say this is what we will and this is what we have planned (and while we HAVE planned for it) we also know it's just like a deck of cards, we have to deal with the hand the universe deals us.

 

I am glad you have other plans in case. I mean I am sure you will have children, but it always good to be relaxed about it too. My mother-in-law was a MESS about having kids. She got married at 24 and did not have my husband till she was like 38.(he was her first). The minute she said,"aw screw it I will never have kids" she got pregnant 4 times in 2 years. My husband,miscarriage,my sister in law,miscarriage. So being all uptight can actually cause infertility.

[lostnscared]

See I disagree--i think the basics and core values CAN change as you acquire more life experiences--and that what you may value at one point in time, may not be such an important value at another point in time--or may change completely due to some experiences. I DO agree that no one should tell you, that you are missing out, or try to define what you should be doing at your age. Obviously the girl who gave you that advice has a different lifestyle and led a different lifestyle before she had children, so her advice won't apply to you since you weren't into that scene in the first place. But still I don't think she was trying to be offensive--she was probably just being honest with you about her regret in the choices she made.

 

The great thing about the group of friends I had, is that we all were different. I had one friend who was like you and stayed at home a lot, and just worked, and wanted a family, I had another friend who has been traveling all over the world literally and does it by herself, I have a friend with kids, friends in school, working in the corporate world, partiers, nonpartiers, etc. That is what I meant that I don't believe there is an "average" when it comes to what an early-mid twenty year old thinks and does. I think that the media has influenced people to believe that all 20-somethings are similar and whatnot but in my experience I can't say I've met an "average" 20 year old that does the stereotypical things that I see on television. I mean sure I know those who drink a lot, and are irresponsible, but that actually is rare from my experiences and I tend to find people in varying ranges on the spectrum(in terms of partying, not partying, staying at home, not staying at home).

 

Just because your best friend is different from you, does not mean that you are some outlier that is just so different from most twenty year olds. I think what you're describing is that you are an introvert and prefer to be indoors. So to me that's more of a personality difference, than the fact that she is a typical twenty year old(as I don't believe there is)--I also just think you are different people, and that doesn't make you "rare" because you aspire to be a mom and would rather stay in--it just makes you different from her or from those that DO like to party and be out. If that makes sense.

 

You sound like an introvert OG and I wonder if that is more about why you stay inside, dislike socializing in large doses, and prefer to not party and do more social activities.

 

My mom was my age when she had me, but had my brother when she was 20. I knew I def. did not want to be 20 when I had my first kid, simply because for me it was important to have an education, work experience, and to grow up a bit, but I was fine with having kids in my mid-twenties as long as I had a house, money, was with a man with a stable job, and could be a SAHM if I wanted. But my sisters who my mom also had in her mid-late twenties want to have kids older--so I wonder if it's just about the person to. Some people just want to have families young, others do not.

[OptomisticGirl]

I am glad you have other plans in case. I mean I am sure you will have children, but it always good to be relaxed about it too. My mother-in-law was a MESS about having kids. She got married at 24 and did not have my husband till she was like 38.(he was her first). The minute she said,"aw screw it I will never have kids" she got pregnant 4 times in 2 years. My husband,miscarriage,my sister in law,miscarriage. So being all uptight can actually cause infertility.

 

I admit, that's going to be my biggest thing to over come, is knowing I want it and we are trying and relaxing, which is one reason I like our whole going to Paris for our 2 year wedding anniversary. Hopefully that will coincide with our timeline of starting to concieve (a year after I get a job) and we can start ON the vacation were I'm much more relaxed, you know? It's def going to be something I have to work on, I know it. But yeah, it's basically like anything else in life. You plan for what you want but you also have to plan for if you don't get that. You know you want to go x college you plan and do what you have to do to get there. If you get there right away, great! If you have to do something else you just change the course to that. Same with our pregnancies. We know we want this and that so we will prepare for that but we are also prepared for Plan X and Plan Z, you know?

 

My mom concieved me before her motorcycle accident (she was pregnant WITH me when she wrecked, didn't know she was pregnant) and was on BC. I was born in '88 and about a year after I was born they actually started trying for a baby - took them 2 years to get pregnant with my sister.

[Seraphim]

Yes, I did not want to be 20 either. My mom had me at 20 but I think she was more mature than I was. She had already been married for 2 years when she was 20. I wanted an education first. I did not start my university education till I was like 22....so . Even though we did not protect against pregnancy I still did not have my son till I was weeks from being 31.

[OptomisticGirl]

I don't think our core values change unless, like I said, we just experience something life altering. Like say someone's stance on a very political or religious subject. If they are very anti that, I think it takes something happening to them very drastically for them to be FOR that. I don't think people just flip flop. I don't think she was trying to be offensive, no, but it wasn't like I asked her how her life had changed. We were talking about kids and I mentioned I would love to be a mom like, right now, and she said that. That's were I have an issue with people who say that to me.

 

I don't think there is an average either but many people do. People have told me I'm weird that I'm 23 and I can count on one hand the amount of times I have falling down drunk - it just doesn't appeal to me. When I have a bad day do I want to have a Smirnoff? yeah, but when I buy a 6 pack, it lasts me a whole year.

 

it's not that I prefer to be indoors - I LOVE the outdoors and nature - I just prefer to be alone. Not even alone because I never feel that overwhelming sense to get away from L that I do when out doing things with her or someone else. I can be around others but I hate being expected to socalize. We were swimming this past weekend and I just wanted to lay on the float and soak up the sun, relax, and she kept the conversation going and I just wasn't in the mood to talk. I don't think you have to have a conversatino or being doing a specific thing to socalize. There are times L and I are on webcam and he's serfing the web and I'm watching tv - we are 'in the same room' but doing our own thing.

[OptomisticGirl]

Yes, I did not want to be 20 either. My mom had me at 20 but I think she was more mature than I was. She had already been married for 2 years when she was 20. I wanted an education first. I did not start my university education till I was like 22....so . Even though we did not protect against pregnancy I still did not have my son till I was weeks from being 31.

 

Same here. I have always wanted kids but I knew at 16, I was not ready and did not want to have a baby then.

[lostnscared]

Yes, I did not want to be 20 either. My mom had me at 20 but I think she was more mature than I was. She had already been married for 2 years when she was 20. I wanted an education first. I did not start my university education till I was like 22....so . Even though we did not protect against pregnancy I still did not have my son till I was weeks from being 31.

 

Yeah everyone's priorities are different--education is a big deal in my home, as is having some sort of career background--so it was important to me that I had accomplished those two things at least. I just think for myself there are some ages which I could not fathom having kids at, and thinking back to how I was at 20, I'm thankful I did not have children at that age. lol.

 

I've never "tried" to get pregnant, so I'm not sure how long it would take me. For instance I did get pregnant at 19, and I was actually on birth control at the time and was taking it correctly, but we were using the pull out method in combination with the bc. This year when I got pregnant, we were using condoms and it still happened. So in my case it seems like birth control only works for so long. Ironically around the time I did get pregnant, was around the time where I had finally accepted that I needed to wait until I was better emotionally before having kids and so I stopped thinking about it, and then walla found out I was pregnant. Yet months before, you should've seen me on here talking about my biological clock and stuff. lol. It's actually funny to think about.

[lostnscared]

Well I think people just like to share stuff. I've had people who revealed a lot of stuff to me that was unnecessary--it just happens. I think she was just assuming that it wouldn't bother you. I've never had anyone come out and tell me "oh why would you want kids now, you could be doing x or y" or "I used to party all the time and now that I have kids I can't, and my life sucks--so you should wait to". Most people have just said "oh you have all the time in the world to have kids" and left it at that. But maybe she just wanted to tell you how she felt? I would just ignore the part that you don't feel applies to you.

 

See I think core values CAN change, even without something particularly life-altering happening. Sometimes people just grow up and have a change in perspective or realize that their way of thinking or their values are not aligned with the sort of life they are seeking. But I get what you mean--some people don't completely change the very core of them.

 

I'd have to say that maybe it's the people you're around that factors into what you're considering normal. I've never known that you're officially a normal 23 year old if you get drunk all the time and fall all over the place LOL. You said your from a small town, correct? LOL. I grew up in a very big town, and I just can't say that in my experience that people defined being 23 or 24 by how much they drank, went out, or fell on their faces.

Out of all my friends, me and ONE other girl are the only ones to have irresponsibly used alcohol or drugs, fallen all over the place, or gotten in crazy situations. No one else has. And most of them don't even drink very often, or go out very often.

But it does sound like your an introvert by EVERYTHING you've just described. An introvert likes to be alone, and doesn't have the same desire for socialization as an extrovert.

 

But it would be interesting to see if there is a correlation between introverts wanting children earlier than extroverts? I don't know.

[Seraphim]

Yes, my mother brought me up too with the idea that education was vital and critical. I know I would NEVER have been allowed not to have an education. That is something my mother demanded and it was not negotiable, or leave her house and make your own life at 18 if you were not going to school. My clock has been ticking away for me since I was about 14 or so. It is a long time to hear it. I know what you mean because I still hear it even though now it is just a source of annoyance.( but that could be my miscarriage talking. I am not sure I am done dealing with that.)

[lostnscared]

Yes, my mother brought me up too with the idea that education was vital and critical. I know I would NEVER have been allowed not to have an education. That is something my mother demanded and it was not negotiable, or leave her house and make your own life at 18 if you were not going to school. My clock has been ticking away for me since I was about 14 or so. It is a long time to hear it. I know what you mean because I still hear it even though now it is just a source of annoyance.( but that could be my miscarriage talking. I am not sure I am done dealing with that.)

 

I started wanting kids at 16 LOL--sometimes it would peak high, other times it would be okay. But it seemed like the times when I did become pregnant was when I wasn't really focusing all my attention on babies--so you may have something down pat when you say being "relaxed" helps.