$100+K in 12 months given, but I'm still "mean" and "stingy", she says

[DN]

You do not feel angry because the enormity of what she has done has not yet become apparent because it is masked by the fact that you love her. Once you realise your love was misplaced, misused and not reciprocated you may go through anger. At the moment you are in emotional denial.

[unhappiest2011]

You do not feel angry because the enormity of what she has done has not yet become apparent because it is masked by the fact that you love her. Once you realise your love was misplaced, misused and not reciprocated you may go through anger. At the moment you are in emotional denial.

Believe me, I expected your response, almost those exact words...

 

So, there is worse to come for me, I guess?

[DN]

Or you could thank your lucky stars that you didn't marry her.

[unhappiest2011]

Or you could thank your lucky stars that you didn't marry her.

Actually, I did take steps towards that union. As I see it, it is she and not I who pulled out. Perhaps predictably, she said she could tell that I was not serious about it.

 

What does that tell you, please?

[DN]

It tells me that she wants someone to pay her way but is dumb enough to make it very obvious. I hope you will not match her intellect by going back to her if she wants you to.

[Lonewing]

Hey, you remember what I said?

 

I'm really really happy you're no longer with her.

 

Someday you might understand what i was saying earlier. I suppose this lesson was a coslty lesson to learn, but I hope you have learned it well enough never to let this happen again!

[Applewhite]

You are not angry yet because the emotions are still raw and you doubt yourself on what you could have done to keep her and and be happy and sane in the same time (this wasn't possible). She keeps blaming you about it and you believe her because you want to believe her because you want her back. I do think she is a manipulator and liar and I think you see that too but you seem to be in denial as DN says.

[Ms Darcy]

Read the thread. I hope she does you a favor and enver marries you. I am not sure you yourself even knows how to have healthy love. Good luck.

[lavenderdove]

Look, she is just applying tried and true con artist/gold digger tactics to you... she keeps coming up with new 'troubles' that require large amounts of money from you to fix, or business schemes that require large amounts of money from you, or bullying you, or emotionally blackmailing you to give her money, whatever it takes... just really clear con artist tactics where all roads lead to her getting a nice lump sum she can squirrel away somewhere.

 

And you honestly have NO WAY OF KNOWING whether all this money she took from you in the past really went to paying for what she said she did. What she is trolling for is not love and a happy family life, but financial security FOR HERSELF and not really involving more than you handing her money. She keeps coming at you again and again from different angles, but all those angles involve you handing over serious chunks of money. What is astounding is that you either keep wrestling with her over it or caving and giving it to her.

 

I suspect that you have a rather large sexual attraction to her and are letting this cloud your thinking. And she basically is showing you she's nothing more than someone who will spread her legs for money, and in fact said so with her statement about there being many men who would be happy to pay for it! Really, those kinds of statements show she recognizes she is nothing more than a high priced mistress and is more than willing to trade sex for money, but wants YOU to understand that is the transaction going on here where she expects to be highly rewarded financially for her 'services', and you just don't seem to really understand that though she has done everything but shout it at you (and actually maybe already has).

 

What usually happens in cases like this where the woman is a con artist/gold digger is that she runs through her routine until she realizes you have either figured her out (and won't keep coughing up money) or that you refuse to 'get' that she basically selling herself to you for money, so she goes off to find a bigger fish who is easier to manipulate. And if her big score with you isn't coming thru fast enough (usually marriage or a big lump sum that she takes and runs), she'll start working other men at the same time as you, and when one of them pulls to the front as willing to give her a lot of money, then that is when she disappears with him and dumps you.

 

So she has recognized that you are not getting the fact that if she puts out she expects to be 'paid' big dollars for it, and she has gotten frustrated with you for not paying enough for her services.

 

You can do SO much better than her. She sounds like a cold blooded/sociopath type survivor, who recognizes very clearly that men are manipulated by sexual attraction, and she intends to make sure that she gets a big payoff for it, getting as much money as she can as quickly as she can from men she sleeps with. Women like this do usually look for a husband when they get to a certain age (late 30s) and recognize their 'marketability' as a sex object is dropping and it be becomes a dash for the cash to get as much money as they can or entice a man into marriage to ensure her financial security, because she is well aware it will be harder to use her sexuality to entice money from men as she ages.

 

So she had you on the hook for a while and did take you for really big money if you put in $100K the first year and another $30K since then, but she has recognized that you just refuse to understand that this relationship IS about money and that she intends to be a well compensated mistress or wife, and if end the end you don't shell out enough cash for that privilege, she will go find someone who does, because her the number years left for her to be able to use her sexuality and men's attraction to her as a means of income are coming to a close. She wants/expects that big score, and if she can't get it from you, she will get it somewhere else.

 

So you really have not been getting what this is all about the whole time... she's after the cash, and you keep thinking this is about love and family and being a good provider to a normal woman, when she's clearly shown you her chosen role is to be a rich man's mistress and get as much cash and goodies out of that as she can, and now that she's entering middle age, she wants the big score (a big lump sum to carry her in old age) or else marriage so that she is secure and/or can divorce you in a few years for a large sum of money that you won't give her voluntarily.

[lavenderdove]

btw, she may 'pretend' for a while she's 'not that kind of girl', especially if she senses you are a moral man who would be horrified at the idea of paying for sex with money or taking a mistress who is openly rewarded financially and 'kept' for sexual purposes. So she will 'play' it like its a real romance because she knows you are a romantic and that is what you want, that fantasy of 'true love' which hookers call in the business a client who wants 'the girlfriend experience.'

 

But her true self is showing thru because she is getting frustrated that you won't reward her like a mistress with large sums of money. Think back thru your history... it is just screams this out in your posts! You keep thinking she's a GF while she keeps acting like a greedy mistress. And she's now come out and said it with her 'spread her legs' comment, and you're still not getting it.

 

So if you are a moral man, this woman is NOT the partner for you because she lives in a world where she expects to use her sexuality to get a lot of money and a comfortable lifestyle, while you keep hoping it is true love and she'll make a good wife. You just live in different worlds and she will never be a loving wife because she sees relationships from the vantage of a high priced mistress expecting financial reward for her services. So let her go find a rich old coot who doesn't care if he has to pay for it, and you go find a normal woman who wants a loving relationship rather than a dash for cash.

[why do we]

Don't really think the girl is a "cold blooded sociopath" and nothing wrong with supporting your woman either, however, this particular one just wasn't in love with you, that's all, otherwise she would have been happy to marry you without any lumsumps etc.

Next time value yourself better, good luck!

[lavenderdove]

I don't know any normal women who hit up men for money the way this woman has done, especially BEFORE marriage expecting him to pay off her debts, give her lump sums, give her money to start businesses that may or may not be real, taking at least $150K from him in a short period of time and still complaining he won't give her more!

 

Supporting a woman is fine if both agree that they are building a life and family together, and the woman isn't just a money pit demanding more and more money and making statements like plenty of men would be happy to pay if she spread her legs for them... sorry, but everything she's said/done fits the profile for a sociopathic con woman, or a high priced callgirl/mistress at best.

[jeepman41]

DN, you are a man of few words but some considerable directness. Thank you for responding.

 

Why do I not feel rage and anger at what has happened, but instead just deep hurt, regret and sorrow? Stockholm Syndrome? Delayed reaction? Low emotional IQ?

 

 

I personally feel you are in a state of denial. It's happening right in front of you but it probably seems so surrealistic. They say love is blind among other things it's also been called a from of temporary insanity. I know you are a very intelligent individual as you have made lots of money in stock trading. Sorry to see you waste it on some one who really doesn't love you. Once you get that love IV pulled out of your arm, the world as you know now will cease to exist. This isn't a partnership, no far from it.

[Tanzi]

Don't really think the girl is a "cold blooded sociopath" and nothing wrong with supporting your woman either, however, this particular one just wasn't in love with you, that's all, otherwise she would have been happy to marry you without any lumsumps etc.

Next time value yourself better, good luck!

 

I would say its a whole lot more than simply not being in love with him. Supporting your woman with whom you have had a family with is totally different from being rinsed dry by someone who refuses to work simply because they are in a relationship with you and who wants a lump sum of money in return for marriage! This relationship is nothing but a business transaction .... and one that is working well for his girlfriend it seems.

 

What amazes me more than anything is that the OP is still.allowing this to happen.

[unhappiest2011]

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far and given their Christmas time to helping. I've carefully read what you wrote.

 

Don't really think the girl is a "cold blooded sociopath" and nothing wrong with supporting your woman either

I agree with the above on both counts.

 

What follows is not in any way either a criticism or even the faintest suggestion that anyone replying in this thread had any motive other than sincerely trying to help me.

 

Perhaps it is the nature of this forum, that people are (probably necessarily?) judgemental and quick, as they are writing about people they will almost certainly never meet or know f2f. So, they could be at least partly wrong. And there could be subconscious bias, too - say if someone commenting had their heart badly broken by a callous East-European, perhaps there's a natural/human temptation to cast all or most from that area as being like that.

 

I set out posting at enotalone not asking for reinforcement, but instead asking people to please show me where I was wrong (my distress was at what I saw as chronic over-spending in a world which IMHO has gone economically topsy-turvey and is getting worse) and to show me her POV.

 

This didn't happen - no one posting supported her POV. This is not what I had expected.

 

While I've written the truth, and nothing except the truth, it was impossible for me to have written all of the truth. What took 200 lines would then have taken 20,000 lines and people wouldn't have had the time to read it. I deliberately have blurred some of the detail. For example, we're both a couple of years older than I'd written, but the age difference I indicated was correct (it is 11 yrs almost exactly). It would have been relevant if I'd gone out with someone in their twenties or early thirties, and I'd then probably have been begging for this to have happened. But I wasn't. Nothing out of the normal with a man in his early fifties going out with a lady in her early forties.

 

There are many mitigating things too. In very many ways she'd be delightful; I definitely have annoying habits, and no doubt made many gaffes too which she would overlook. And she had dropped the lumpsum instead of (or before) marriage thing, AFAIK.

 

As "why do we" wrote: there's nothing wrong supporting your woman (through thick and thin, but pre-supposing that there is a "your woman" in the first place).

 

I am a little taken aback at how decisively almost every poster sees the situation, as if there is no doubt at all.

 

Are you (this is addressed to EVERYONE who has posted) really this sure about someone you have never met?

 

Please let me know.

[curiocity]

Sorry if I was judgmental. I wasnt intentionally. Sorry nonetheless.

 

Here is my take on this: when cavemen loved, the relationship was simple - male would bring home the elk and woman would cook it and manage the cave. It worked.

 

Then we evolved.

 

When animals love, its pretty simple too - male brings something for the female and the offspring, and the female takes care of the rest.

 

Then we evolved.

 

We found something called love. And this love was just a bit above and indifferent to the exchanges of food for home. Love was bigger than that. One day the female decided to stay back with the disabled male who lost his leg in a fight, because..............because she loved him.

 

Being loved for being a provider is a basic love. Being loved regardless of that is a higher love. I think what people have said is, reach for a higher love. You deserve it, just like all of us.

[DN]

Are you (this is addressed to EVERYONE who has posted) really this sure about someone you have never met?

Simple answer - in this case, yes, absolutely sure.

[Applewhite]

To be honest I can't help but feel a little offended by what you wrote. Not sure how to respond to your question other than: Yes, I'm sure.

[jeepman41]

Are you (this is addressed to EVERYONE who has posted) really this sure about someone you have never met?

 

Please let me know.

 

 

 

My question to you is "Are you seeking advice for your situation or are you here for someone to validate your actions?"

 

I anxiously anticipate your reply.

[Lamour detruit]

Are you (this is addressed to EVERYONE who has posted) really this sure about someone you have never met?

 

Please let me know.

 

There is no if or but, she's taking advantage of you, that is all that is happening here, regardless of whatever good quality she may have. You have zero backbone if you keep allowing this to happen, get out.

[Tanzi]

Perhaps it is the nature of this forum, that people are (probably necessarily?) judgemental and quick, as they are writing about people they will almost certainly never meet or know f2f. So, they could be at least partly wrong. And there could be subconscious bias, too - say if someone commenting had their heart badly broken by a callous East-European, perhaps there's a natural/human temptation to cast all or most from that area as being like that.

 

Not at all. My own personal response was based on everything that you have told us about your situation. I have never ever ever heard of such blatant selfishness or laziness from another human being.

 

I set out posting at enotalone not asking for reinforcement, but instead asking people to please show me where I was wrong (my distress was at what I saw as chronic over-spending in a world which IMHO has gone economically topsy-turvey and is getting worse) and to show me her POV.

 

This didn't happen - no one posting supported her POV. This is not what I had expected..

 

So despite what you set out to tell us about her, you actually see this as your fault. This is just crazy. Your chronic overspending is down to her ridiculous demands and nothing else. Somehow though I don't think you will ever see this because you simply don't want to. What you actually came here for was validation that her demands and your pampering to her needs were perfectly normal. Not so.

 

Are you (this is addressed to EVERYONE who has posted) really this sure about someone you have never met?

 

Please let me know.

 

From EVERYTHING you have gone to the trouble of telling us us about her ... her demands, her expectations .... yes, without a shadow of a doubt. I'm sorry you have not heard what you wanted to hear. You obviously love this woman and are looking for reasons to stay in this relationship. However, the fact that you came here in the first place tells me that you know deep down that this whole situation is far from normal, despite expecting (or rather hoping for) opinions saying otherwise. You aren't even married yet and even if you were she would still be capable of working. You don't have a family together for her to look after. We aren't living in the 50's anymore. As curiocity said "Then we evolved".

[unhappiest2011]

To all:

 

Sorry, I wasn't at all being critical and didn't mean to offend anyone. Hope I haven't. I still quite can't get it how this seems so ultra-clear to everyone commenting here, and that it is (much?) more blurred to me.

 

Yes, I know deep down it isn't "normal". But she insisted it was normal except for my meanness. And was dismissive of my "Please socialise with local ladies, and not just a rich expatriates club".

 

And various examples from the life of her special female friend (we'll call her "X") from the same country would be frequently quoted by her, to show all this was normal and that I was deficient.

 

This is the same X who I'd once met with her partner, and who, later apparently suspecting infidelity on the grounds of intercepted SMS messages, asked me over the phone to use my financial prowess to "help [her = X] screw him out of all his money" (see my earliest posts in the thread). Maybe X was just being emotional, maybe she'd had a glass of wine, maybe she didn't mean it at all. But it still sticks in my mind as it is an extraordinary thing to say.

 

Everything else about X is hearsay, and I'm relying on what I'd been told (with whatever agenda or motive) by the gf. Maybe it isn't true.

 

The man was a rich old guy whom X had met gave X a $475K house as a gift after only 18 months (my estimate of time), I was told. Partly in gratitude for helping him through a very nasty divorce, I was told, X being a skilled lawyer, I was also told.

 

But later I was told that marriage could not be relied upon because men were able to escape paying almost anything due to dirty legal tricks, which is why a lumpsum from me was needed instead or in addition. And didn't this reflect on X, who'd helped the man allegedly perpetrate this?

 

And then I'd keep being told how X and the man had split up, then re-hooked, and she was always being driven around by some younger guy... only platonic.

 

And when I said, this isn't right and she's a huge influence on you, and if I'm wrong or have misunderstood, show me, let's meet that couple again, I was told what a bad person the older man was, and that now he had gone back to his (ex-?) wife.

 

Well, an alternative take on it is he bought a $475K house for someone who then dumped him or something else happened which he could not handle, and he ran back to his previous partner (extremely bitter divorce notwithstanding).

 

Surreal. But none of my business, per se. I only mention it because X is obviously a huge influence, maybe is a mentor given the unending contact. And "X did this" and "X got that" was always being told to me, usually towards one end.

 

Also told about X's just-of-age daughter who met a boy in his mid-twenties who soon proposed to her and "gave" her an expensive house almost immediately and married her. Except it was later said he didn't own the house, but expected to inherit it from his old dad (Surely you can't give away what you don't own). And that proved "real love" - I was told.

 

Also about another unconnected, mature friend of hers who had corresponded with a man for a year and married him less than three weeks after meeting him face to face.

 

I'm not bad with numbers. With an idea of what the older man was worth (I was explicitly told the very high worth of his property), and knowing my own position, the odds that two randomly-selected 40+ year old men (in our neck of the woods) would be worth that much or more must be 25,000:1 or even longer odds. But X and her, who had already met, independently found them as partners. Coincidence, shared design or filtration?

 

2> Many times:

"You are money-mad. You love only money."

Boy that hurt.

 

3>

"You never give me what I want. Just listen to what I say, it is as if you cannot hear and just hope I forget."

 

4>

"You let me down all the time... I cannot trust you. I cannot rely on you to keep your word."

(My comment: This is because I didn't have much left to give to her recently - and that was because I spent so much money on a short-notice trip to her home country for her out-of-the-blue family event, on (also short-notice) roundtrip airfares for all three of us, a visa, expensive hotel, local travelling, cash for her (over $1K), food, a small amount for gifts/presents etc. She said she didn't want me to have come which would have saved a lot of the cost... which she had said, but then had gone on to say that she did very much want me there.

 

5>

"You say you want things between us, to be like it is between my parents. Well, my father would hand over all his earnings to my mother each pay-day."

OK, well if so, it is mainly because his earnings, as a skilled but non-graduate blue-collar worker in that country 20-40 years ago were modest and it barely paid for the essentials for a family of five. And the mother was, and is, frugal and careful, with no interest in fripperies or luxuries (like the father). So, I don't see any parallel. Here, the spending (including cash for her to squirrel away) is much more than I am earning, so on that count I'm doing even more than her dad, as I'm handing over all my earnings and more besides. I was selling investments every six to eight weeks to make up the difference...

 

6.

"That you and my son [have such a perfect/great relationship] is not a priority for me. I can tell him things in the future which will destroy that. You do not support me or care about what is actually important to me. What I do not want to be is a pensioner [in 20 years time] with a mortgage."

All this kind of presupposes I would be be untrustworthy and dump her or do something to force her to leave, ignoring all the evidence from all three long relationships in my life (between them, covering 25 years), where in each case the lady concerned still trusts me with their money (proof of that is conclusive and isn't up for debate), which wouldn't be the case if I was that kind of guy.

 

7. On being shown by me official published statistics that the median take-home, post-taxes earnings, for those in employment, in this neck of the woods is about $17K, and that I am spending (almost all on her) over four times more than that (and it was nearly seven times more in 2010), plus she's getting SS payments plus rental income from a property plus hire rental from the machine she sold that was bought with the loan I paid off for her plus small amounts from her ex-husband.

"So? What other people get has no relevance to me."

 

Once or twice, while in the middle of delivering a stern message to me about my failure and failings, she hid her face with her hand to cover laughter. I know the obvious interpretation of that... perhaps there is another.

[DN]

Look - she doesn't want you, she wants your money and you have been foolish enough to fall for it. Time to get wise and move on because this is getting beyond ridiculous.

 

If you can't accept that then continually asking advice on here is pointless, you will do nothing but waste people's time. Sorry to be blunt but when everyone can see that you are not acting wisely and not seeing the blindingly obvious it gets to the point where it becomes pointless giving further advice.

[Lonewing]

You sure like to do the difficult...

 

What are you still trying to "get?"

 

Why she doesn't love you?

 

It's never Going to happen.

[somethngwrng]

Agreed, she doesn't love you. If you don't get rid of her, you're a willing victim.