$100+K in 12 months given, but I'm still "mean" and "stingy", she says

[curiocity]

There really is a fetish out there where guys totally do hand over their paychecks to women. But if OP is not into it then he is just wasting his time. And fetish is NOT love.

 

Hope you can find peace.

[unhappiest2011]

Look (...)

 

Sorry; perhaps you missed post #93 (12-24-2011, 08:06 PM) where I had written:

(...) for quite some time now, we have not been together. (...)

 

The "quite some time" then was almost 2 months. So, maybe this serves as venting / recovering / healing by, or for, me?

[penfield]

Sir, I don't think you've ever been together. Nobody can argue that you don't have an emotional stake in this and that your heart isn't broken over her. But when you're on the outside and you look at the circumstances and details involved... I don't think there are enough red flags made in the world that wouldn't go up over her behavior.

 

Your brains have made you good money. Hold onto it. Listen to the brains here and find someone better. Much better. And don't look back.

[DN]

Sorry; perhaps you missed post #93 (12-24-2011, 08:06 PM) where I had written:

 

 

The "quite some time" then was almost 2 months. So, maybe this serves as venting / recovering / healing by, or for, me?

How is it healing? - you are stuck and not moving on.

[Tanzi]

I still quite can't get it how this seems so ultra-clear to everyone commenting here, and that it is (much?) more blurred to me.

 

And I really can't quite understand how you can't see how this relationhip centred around nothing but money. Maybe you, yourself (without wanting to cause any offence) are out of touch with the "real" world ... one where money doesn't speak quite so loudly and where we depend on the simple things in life, such as love, to bring us happiness and one where we share responsibility (wherever we can) over mortgages, bills and bringing up children.

 

And various examples from the life of her special female friend (we'll call her "X") from the same country would be frequently quoted by her, to show all this was normal and that I was deficient.

 

It may be normal in her world, and in X's world ... but this isn't normal in the real world, and I'm sure the majority of people on this site would agree with that.

 

This is the same X who I'd once met with her partner, and who, later apparently suspecting infidelity on the grounds of intercepted SMS messages, asked me over the phone to use my financial prowess to "help [her = X] screw him out of all his money" (see my earliest posts in the thread). Maybe X was just being emotional, maybe she'd had a glass of wine, maybe she didn't mean it at all. But it still sticks in my mind as it is an extraordinary thing to say.

 

Or maybe she is just like your ex-gf and is looking for ways in which to screw as many men as possible out of as much money as they can.

 

The man was a rich old guy whom X had met gave X a $475K house as a gift after only 18 months (my estimate of time), I was told. Partly in gratitude for helping him through a very nasty divorce, I was told, X being a skilled lawyer, I was also told.

 

Now there's a surprise! So she helps him through his divorce and she gets a lump sum of money too. Whatever happened to just paying his skilled lawyer her usual fee!

 

But later I was told that marriage could not be relied upon because men were able to escape paying almost anything due to dirty legal tricks, which is why a lumpsum from me was needed instead or in addition.

 

It seems to me that your ex-gf and her friend, X, see marriage as nothing more than a money making scheme. No-one marries in return for lump sums of money. Marriage isn't a business transaction. Yet you yourself talk as if this is the most normal request in the world. It isn't. It really, really isn't.

 

And then I'd keep being told how X and the man had split up, then re-hooked, and she was always being driven around by some younger guy... only platonic.

 

Platonic? I hope you didn't believe that. You know what all that was really about don't you? You can't tell me you don't see it. I know you do, that is why you are relaying the story.

 

And when I said, this isn't right and she's a huge influence on you, and if I'm wrong or have misunderstood, show me, let's meet that couple again, I was told what a bad person the older man was, and that now he had gone back to his (ex-?) wife.

 

So you do know. You do know, deep down, that all of this is so very very wrong.

 

Also told about X's just-of-age daughter who met a boy in his mid-twenties who soon proposed to her and "gave" her an expensive house almost immediately and married her. Except it was later said he didn't own the house, but expected to inherit it from his old dad (Surely you can't give away what you don't own). And that proved "real love" - I was told.

 

Does it now? Its all about the money?

 

I'm not bad with numbers. With an idea of what the older man was worth (I was explicitly told the very high worth of his property), and knowing my own position, the odds that two randomly-selected 40+ year old men (in our neck of the woods) would be worth that much or more must be 25,000:1 or even longer odds. But X and her, who had already met, independently found them as partners. Coincidence, shared design or filtration?

 

I think you know the answer to that.. Its all about the money.

 

She said she didn't want me to have come which would have saved a lot of the cost... which she had said, but then had gone on to say that she did very much want me there.

 

And no doubt she told you that after the trip ... how convenient.

 

You say you want things between us, to be like it is between my parents. Well, my father would hand over all his earnings to my mother each pay-day.

 

Its all about the money.

 

Here, the spending (including cash for her to squirrel away) is much more than I am earning, so on that count I'm doing even more than her dad, as I'm handing over all my earnings and more besides. I was selling investments every six to eight weeks to make up the difference...

 

And this is acceptable because?

 

That you and my son [have such a perfect/great relationship] is not a priority for me. I can tell him things in the future which will destroy that. You do not support me or care about what is actually important to me. What I do not want to be is a pensioner [in 20 years time] with a mortgage.

 

Oh she sounds adorable!

 

If she doesn't want to be a pensioner with a mortgage hanging over her then whatdid she do towards paying a mortgage off? Oh she didn't do anything did she? She found a much easier solution .... she got someone to pay it off for her.

 

On being shown by me official published statistics that the median take-home, post-taxes earnings, for those in employment, in this neck of the woods is about $17K, and that I am spending (almost all on her) over four times more than that (and it was nearly seven times more in 2010), plus she's getting SS payments plus rental income from a property plus hire rental from the machine she sold that was bought with the loan I paid off for her plus small amounts from her ex-husband. "So? What other people get has no relevance to me."

 

Good God ... you tell us things like this (as you have been doing throughout this thread) and then say this:

 

I still quite can't get it how this seems so ultra-clear to everyone commenting here, and that it is (much?) more blurred to me.

 

Surely you really can't be this blind.

 

Once or twice, while in the middle of delivering a stern message to me about my failure and failings, she hid her face with her hand to cover laughter. I know the obvious interpretation of that... perhaps there is another.

 

Nope. There is no other.

[copepouches]

You sound so mean, I'm from Florida and here we require our girlfriends to give us 10k a month. Just transfer all your assets into her name and let her budget them so you can both be happy finally.

[Silvergalaxy]

I didn't read all the posts but it is really obvious. She didn't love you and only used you for money. I mean, think about it. If someone loved you, would they leave you because of material things? And threaten to look for a higher bidder?

 

I am originally from Eastern Europe myself and I have witnessed many situations like yours in my home country where beautiful women have their way in life paid for by willing rich men. It's really sad and pathetic for everyone involved in my opinion. You should be happy you got out before it got more serious. Hope you can see that some day soon.

[Julia Durst]

Drop her, she is too demanding.

 

What does she do with all that money anyway.

[NovaMan]

After reading all the posts, it almost appears as if you are a masochist. You know damn well that she doesn't love you and that you're being played, but you seem to like it. Otherwise, why do you keep talking about it. The original post was from March, but you're still commenting and eliciting feedback 9 months later. If in fact there is pain, and I question whether there really is and how serious you are about this, you are certainly doing everything in your power to keep the wound fresh. This may sound harsh, I'm just telling you how I see it. If you re-read your original post, isn't it blatantly obvious what you're dealing with here?

[Tanzi]

After reading all the posts, it almost appears as if you are a masochist. You know damn well that she doesn't love you and that you're being played, but you seem to like it. Otherwise, why do you keep talking about it. The original post was from March, but you're still commenting and eliciting feedback 9 months later. If in fact there is pain, and I question whether there really is and how serious you are about this, you are certainly doing everything in your power to keep the wound fresh. This may sound harsh, I'm just telling you how I see it. If you re-read your original post, isn't it blatantly obvious what you're dealing with here?

 

I happen to agree with this though the relationship is actually now over. Can I ask, unhappiest, how and why the relationship ended. I may have missed it on this thread, sorry if you have to repeat information. I gather that the issue now is why you still can't see the blidingly obvious and feel any anger towards her. Does this mean that you would still take her back (depending on who ended the relationship ended) because your issue isn't with the money but in wanting her back?

[winniethepooh]

I still quite can't get it how this seems so ultra-clear to everyone commenting here, and that it is (much?) more blurred to me.

Because no one here except you has feelings for your ex. You are (or were) in love with her and that distorted your perception when it came to seeing her for what she was. It's clear to everyone else because they don't have feelings for her. When your feelings have gone, it will be clear to you too.

 

The first part is apparently true (though her previous husbands apparently gave her little or nothing according to her, but now she's better advised by her friend(s) not to be naive, to "value herself" properly, etc.).

That is why those men are previous husbands, and none of them is her current husband. Learn from people's history.

 

I have put down a lot of the problems to cultural differences. But from everything I can tell her mom and dad have a superb marriage, and (living in Eastern Europe) are careful with money.

Cultural differences are not to be dismissed or ignored. They should be addressed early in the relationship before you fall in love with someone otherwise it becomes very painful when the cultural difference cannot be resolved. And don't dismiss the influence from friends or family of the same culture either.

 

It is common or expected in Eastern European culture that the man pays. You and her did not address that cultural difference at the start in a way that was acceptable to both of you, so you ended up paying lots of money and falling in love, and she ended up with the lifestyle she was looking for. Possibly or probably emotionally disconnected from you during the relationship.

 

Had you addressed that issue at the start of the relationship, it sounds like she's the sort of person for whom that cultural expectation is very convenient, so she is likely to have walked, but that would have saved you the $100,000 or whatever you calculated. For other women from Eastern Europe, it is not so convenient because they are uncomfortable with the sense of ownership that goes with it.

 

If you want to be with someone from Eastern Europe, either accept that is likely to mean you pay because you're a man, or find out at the beginning if she does not want to follow those cultural expectations and have a more balanced relationship with someone.

 

She has made it abundantly clear to you that she is not going to change, and whether she thinks it's a cultural thing or not, or is just using the cultural background in an extreme way to use you, doesn't matter. Whatever she thinks, it's a deal breaker for you so all you can do is focus on taking actions to move on, and let your feelings catch up to your actions.

[winniethepooh]

"Forgive me for being frank/blunt. There's no end to the list of men who'd be more than happy to f*** me if all they had to do was feed me in return."[/i]

This one took my breath away. For one thing, I was doing a hell of a lot more, both financially and in terms of work, than just putting food on the table.

Irrespective of where she's from, what her friends say, how many husbands she's had, how many relationships you've had, whether or not you love her, whether or not she loves you, and whatever else you can think of to talk about; that statement tells you everything you need to know.

 

The correct response to her is "Yes, you're right, there are. I'm not one of them. Goodbye."

 

Be thankful she made it clear to you.

[unhappiest2011]

Thanks to everyone who has commented; I'm reading and mulling over everything written.

 

As several have asked - The BU happened when I turned down (not off) the $$$ tap.

 

it almost appears as if you are a masochist

I do not think so. You don't know me, so I'm not offended.

 

What I am is very, very determined. Always been like that, from being a little 'un.

 

My personality (and I've been complimented on this many a time) is tenacious; I don't give up on things as readily as many do, but instead I try to stick it out and Make Things Work, almost whatever that takes.

 

This attribute has, in the past, done me well in business and in investing. And it has also wasted me time and thus opportunities. So, I'm totally aware that, like many others, this particular quality is a curse as well as a blessing, a weakness as well as a strength... For example, in a failing or doomed relationship, it can increase my suffering.

 

Faced with what I have been faced with, I guess most men would have walked a while ago.

 

I probably know what can be said to me here.

 

If in fact there is pain, and I question whether there really is

Sadly, I feel massive and appalling pain. And if the consensus view here is correct, the only one feeling the pain is me.

 

you are certainly doing everything in your power to keep the wound fresh

If so, unintentionally. There's been v.close to NC.

 

isn't it blatantly obvious what you're dealing with here?

Well, there's the consensus view.

 

There's also - just perhaps - somebody there who feels badly let down, insecure, aware that time is working against her, wrongly convinced that I had no serious intentions (re marriage, say) and that I was just playing her along. That's what she's said, anyway. Yes, I know her conduct has been such as to make most men flee from marriage, and certainly slowed me down on it, so this doesn't fit the history - however, I'm not inside of her head, and she certainly had/has various ways of thinking and looking at things that I couldn't comprehend.

 

Yes, probably a simpler explanation is a couple of East European friends aged in their forties who colluded or at least exchanged ideas about how to locate, seduce and then specifically discuss how to exploit or emotionally blackmail well-off men (or man) to take them/him whatever they could possibly get, regardless of the emotional mayhem they wrought and hearts they broke while doing so. That fits the facts, however unpalatable it may be to me as it suggest she never ever came close to loving me, whatever she said or did - it was all a callous, calculated act by her, and at times it got too difficult for her to carry on with the act. Fits the facts doesn't necessarily mean is true.

 

EVERYONEWhat do you suggest I do to reduce the pain, besides "get a dog"? Thank you for trying to help.

 

.

 

(Novaman, I've read your thread and will contribute my thoughts there about your experience. Focussing on another's pain can distract from one's own, so I'm not being altruistic.

[winniethepooh]

My personality (and I've been complimented on this many a time) is tenacious; I don't give up on things as readily as many do, but instead I try to stick it out and Make Things Work, almost whatever that takes.

 

This attribute has, in the past, done me well in business and in investing. And it has also wasted me time and thus opportunities. So, I'm totally aware that, like many others, this particular quality is a curse as well as a blessing, a weakness as well as a strength... For example, in a failing or doomed relationship, it can increase my suffering.

That attitude might work fine in business and investing, but that's because they are emotionless operations. She is not an investment decision because you are emotionally involved. If she was, you would have walked away a long time ago and found a better deal.

 

If you want to "make it work" spend more money. That's what she wants.

 

Yes, probably a simpler explanation is a couple of East European friends aged in their forties who colluded or at least exchanged ideas about how to locate, seduce and then specifically discuss how to exploit or emotionally blackmail well-off men (or man) to take them/him whatever they could possibly get, regardless of the emotional mayhem they wrought and hearts they broke while doing so. That fits the facts, however unpalatable it may be to me as it suggest she never ever came close to loving me, whatever she said or did - it was all a callous, calculated act by her, and at times it got too difficult for her to carry on with the act. Fits the facts doesn't necessarily mean is true.

This may or may not be true, but doesn't matter. You're still trying to figure things out from your perspective. It won't work for you that way. You have to look at things from her perspective to understand.

 

EVERYONEWhat do you suggest I do to reduce the pain, besides "get a dog"? Thank you for trying to help.

Look at things from her perspective. It's different from yours. Then either spend more money or disconnect from her. Both options will cause you pain. The first will cause you minimal pain initially and increasing pain as time goes on. The second will cause you intense pain initially and decrease as time goes on.

[unhappiest2011]

Thanks a lot to all. Extra thanks to a-little-blue, winniethepooh, Lonewing, DN, lavenderdove, superfox, agent, penelope13, TT and several others for their insights.

 

Here's something else.

 

Let's call my gf G.

Let's call her best friend X, and her male "partner" Y.

 

Prior to our "beginning", G said she'd discussed things with a "same country of origin" female friend of hers who persuaded her to take the big leap and give me a chance.

 

Little over a month later, with us only just "begun", she strongly suggested we meet a "very good friend" of hers (i.e., X, the woman who asked me "tell me how we can screw him ("Y") out of all his money" and whom I was told a year later was gifted a $475K house from the same man Y).

 

It was implied by G that X was not the same friend as the one who persuaded her to take the leap and start up by going away with me. I'm now certain it was indeed the same friend; G and X spent about half-an-hour per day on the phone on average over 18+ months.

 

The wording of this suggestion right at the beginning to take a trip of many hours in very bad weather to where X was staying sounded a bit strained to me. And it seemed a little odd given the early stage of things... But, I thought, perhaps G's not sure (not in her own country or culture) and wants her same-background friend X's opinion on me to see if I'm on the level, A-OK, etc.

 

X (and "partner" Y) were in this fairly grand house that clearly belonged to someone else.

 

After the preliminaries, X, about 4 years younger than me and having had enough alcohol to be relaxed, suggested that she and I talked alone (sort of confirming what I thought was the main purpose of the meeting).

 

X asked if my intentions about G were serious, and after getting a "yes", asked if I would "look after" G. I stuttered out some reply, saying I was hard-working and so on. Then X said something spectacular

"WHAT ELSE CAN G DO - BECOME A PROSTITUTE?"

 

!!!

 

I made no reply to this, and X switched to something else.

 

A week or so later, I relayed this to G, who dismissed it as X's dramatic way of speaking. She didn't, however, seem dismayed or horrified, more amused if anything.

 

For quite some time I've thought this was all pre-planned to test the water.

 

Also, after at least one break-up, when I turned up unexpectedly outside, G immediately phoned X for advice.

 

G would keep asserting how terribly unhappy X was, badly treated by Y (the donor to X of the $475K house, allegedly!) etc. I would keep saying, why live your life according to dictums of someone (X) who is herself so unhappy?

 

Any views?

[penelope13]

You finally ended the relationship, yet you are still torturing yourself. This person played your emotions like a fiddle to whatever monitary purpose she needed.

 

The more you post about her the more perplexing it seems why you can't/ won't see what her motivation for her interaction with you was - just nicely packaged in emotional blackmailing and manipulating you.

 

There is really nothing that you could have done in order to change her into a decent human being - because she doesn't want to. Yes, some people grow up in harsh circumstances - yet it doesn't give them the right to take advantage of someone else in order for the universe to compensate them for whatever perceived injustice/harshness.

 

For the time being you should focus on accepting that no matter how much you wanted to believe that this relationship could work out, it simply was not one based on love and mutual respect. It's tough to swallow, but sometimes we have to accept that we misjudged someone/a situation and we have to forgive ourselves for that. We can't twist and torture our minds to justify our missteps. Accept the outcome of the situation and learn from it.

[unhappiest2011]

you are still torturing yourself

Perhaps this is my way of mentally working through it?

 

This person played your emotions like a fiddle to whatever monitary purpose she needed.

Well, the majority of discussions soon headed in the direction of $$$, and why it was better or safer or fairer or [whatever] with her than with me, notwithstanding all the evidence of her financial stupidity, incompetence and fecklessness/recklessness.

No bonafide interest was shown by her in generating money from outside, though... or even interest in how I was grafting for mine.

 

nicely packaged in emotional blackmailing and manipulating you

Is it truly that clear?

 

There is really nothing that you could have done in order to change her into a decent human being

This is a very perceptive and/or deep statement by you.

 

I never wrote here that I was trying to make such a change.

 

But several people who have known me well and for a long time say, semi- but not entirely jokingly, that I have a "messiah complex" and will expend a lot trying to help people.

 

Please, so, what prompted you to write:

There is really nothing that you could have done in order to change her into a decent human being

?

 

because she doesn't want to. Yes, some people grow up in harsh circumstances - yet it doesn't give them the right to take advantage of someone else in order for the universe to compensate them for whatever perceived injustice/harshness

I don't think she had a harsh childhood at all. Brought up by two devoted hard-working parents who went without so their 3 kids could have things. Parents still together. A more fortunate upbringing than many, even most, people in their forties have had.

 

For the time being you should focus on accepting that no matter how much you wanted to believe that this relationship could work out, it simply was not one based on love and mutual respect.

The word "mutual" is key. Of course, I was the one perpetually accused of "not respecting" her and "using her up" and "taking advantage of her" and even "humiliating" her.

 

It's tough to swallow, but sometimes we have to accept that we misjudged someone/a situation and we have to forgive ourselves for that. We can't twist and torture our minds to justify our missteps. Accept the outcome of the situation and learn from it.

 

Some snippets from the past:

 

Me: So, really, why didn't it work out with your ex- [the father of her 2nd child]?

Her: He was so unbelievably mentally cruel that I had to leave him.

 

but then also, later:

 

Me: You ask for a lumpsum, why would I give you something to remove your incentive to be with me?

Her: Had my ex- put the flat in [E.European city] into my name as I'd asked him, I would have never ever have left him...

 

Spot the anomaly?

 

Me: Your recipe for "our" happiness is simple - I should give you all my money.

Her: Not "all". I never asked you for all of it.

 

Me: I do NOT buy a woman. IMO, you are dishonoring your parents by behaving this way. I never ever did anything my parents would have been ashamed of me for doing.

Her: You are not BUYING a woman. [stress on "buying"]

 

I instantly thought she was implying it would not constitute buying - merely "renting".

 

How about her saying that as I had no taste, therefore I should give her a $65K lumpsum which she would then use to get my house (neglected by me for years) thoroughly redecorated. She wasn't saying I should set aside $65K for this and then she would draw on it to pay for the work as it got done - she wanted the full amount transferred to her.

 

Why make it all so obvious, then? Surely a smarter move would be to give no advance warning of these tendencies, get married, wait the requisite time, and then (etc.). That illogicality's a main reason why I search for other explanations for the conduct. Unless, of course, she really despised me so much that she wanted a quicker kill.

[winniethepooh]

Her: Had my ex- put the flat in [E.European city] into my name as I'd asked him, I would have never ever have left him...

 

Spot the anomaly?

Yes. The anomaly is that you are not seeing things from her perspective, and she is using your distorted perception because of your feelings for her, to help you not see them from her perspective.

 

Her: You are not BUYING a woman. [stress on "buying"]

Her earlier anomalous statement indicates she does want to be "bought" or "rented."

 

Spot the anomaly?

 

You are being a business man and trying to negotiate a fair deal. But that's a waste of time because you don't want a possession for a partner, so no price will be satisfactory. She does want to be a possession so it's in her interests to negotiate the best possible price ... and keep her eye out for better offers in the future. Of course, part of being a clever negotiator is not to admit that she is negotiating and instead manipulate your feelings for her.

 

But her past, and her statements about her past, give her away.

 

You are not going to negotiate your feelings away. You have to disconnect and let time and distractions do their job. Otherwise you will keep negotiating on her behalf and continue the spiral into financial oblivion.

 

How about her saying that as I had no taste, therefore I should give her a $65K lumpsum which she would then use to get my house (neglected by me for years) thoroughly redecorated. She wasn't saying I should set aside $65K for this and then she would draw on it to pay for the work as it got done - she wanted the full amount transferred to her.

You really cannot see how blatantly golddiggerish this is?

 

Why make it all so obvious, then? Surely a smarter move would be to give no advance warning of these tendencies, get married, wait the requisite time, and then (etc.). That illogicality's a main reason why I search for other explanations for the conduct. Unless, of course, she really despised me so much that she wanted a quicker kill.

She might not despise you, but by continuing to behave this way, you are going to make it more likely that she will if she doesn't already.

 

She's got a different perspective and a different set of priorities. But she's not very clever about it. You are clever but at the moment you are emotionally dim and foggy because of your feelings. Stop bargaining. Stop talking to her. Stop defending her. Let time do its work and then see how things look (a few months of time, not a few hours or days).

[unhappiest2011]

Thank you too, winniethepooh, for your time and help.

 

you are not seeing things from her perspective

Is this, in your opinion or guess, her perspective

1. This man may be intelligent in other ways, but emotionally he's like a rock, only dumber

2. He is in love with me; I never loved him, just pretended

3. He still often believes me and wants to give me the benefit of the doubt

4. He's already given me or spent on/with me, though with increasing reluctance, the equivalent of six or seven times the national average net wage, and however much I pretend it is much less, he knows how much it was

5. He doesn't seem to realize, or pretends not to realize, that I expect my time to be generously and fully paid for; I am very sophisticated, beautiful, cultured, intelligent, highly educated, used to have a high paid job before I was fired, so whatever has been paid before no longer counts

6. I am getting older and my time to ensnare is running out, so as soon as he stops coming up with $$$, I walk

 

?

 

by continuing to behave this way, you are going to make it more likely that she will {despise you}

Behave in which way, please?

[DN]

Why are you continuing to do this to yourself? This is very simple: she's a gold-digger, she doesn't love you and she will only be with you if you spend all your money on her. Either accept that and do what she wants or move on.

[unhappiest2011]

DN, I apologize if I am in some way annoying you. That was not and is not my intention.

 

Why are you continuing to do this to yourself?

I suggest that you and I are different people with different ways of dealing with things.

 

The only reason I am "doing this" is to vent, heal and come to terms with things. Maybe, this is my first stage of moving on. If it constitutes torturing myself, I don't see I have too many alternatives.

 

Generally, I come to terms with things by analysing them, by mentally clearing up all (or almost all) loose ends, so I am satisfied I am 100% correct. Then, I'm usually implacably determined. But until then, I'm not.

 

Applying this technique to deeply hurtful emotional (and thus not logical) matters may or may not be sensible. I don't know.

 

As it stands, while the background of feeling extremely badly hurt and used continues, at times I feel really sorry for her, even that I let her down, didn't keep my word, used her, all the things she would so convincingly and so repeatedly tell me I was guilty of doing. Then I find convoluted ways which do manage to explain her actions and past events, or at least most of them, in a way that doesn't involve such an appalling image of her morals and ethics as has been painted by pretty much everyone else commenting on this thread.

 

Perhaps classic techniques of emotional manipulation or blackmail were used on me. But they were new to me.

 

move on

 

Trying to...

 

While I'm obviously a fool, I wasn't wholly unknowing.

 

By spring 2010 (about 20 months ago), I figured out that I:

* had to choose between being in a relationship with her, and her having a regular job (her lack of it and the money that was brought in was then blamed on me);

* was expected to pay for everything for her and her son

* was blamed for talking her out of her proposed business partnership venture (when all I'd done was give the professional opinion on its viability that she'd requested me to give) thereby costing her loads (reality, when I checked 3 months ago, the business was struggling - had lots of free appointment time - and in the current economic climate coule well go bust)

* was asked to pay off her loan ($29K then; $27K when I paid it off in the middle of 2010).

* would be called miserly (lot worse after that).

 

So at one level, I saw and recognised the whole thing all back then. Since summer 2010, I kept trying to reason with her, make her see she was either mistaken or being unreasonable or both, that I wasn't mean, etc. etc. - I was trying to get her to adjust her highly skewed set of values and priorities and, to quote penelope13's last post,

to change her into a decent human being

.

 

If there was a mental switch within my brain I could flick, I would have flicked it long ago.

 

I hope this helps you and others understand. Thank you for reading this far.

[DN]

You are not annoying me at all but I am concerned that you aren't moving on but are totally stuck - that cannot be helpful to anyone.

[winniethepooh]

No, that's your perspective. And those statements might be correct or not but they come accross as you putting forward points to argue about on her behalf. And then you will continue to say things like "But why would she ... if she ...?" Which is all pointless.

 

I don't know her, so I don't know her perspective but you have given some good insight into it with your comments about what she says and how she behaves. It also seems clear to me that you're not trying to see things from her perspective.

 

My guess is that she thinks a relationship is something where the man provides money and house and so on so that she can have a nice materialistic lifestyle of her choosing. In return, she looks nice and provides her body but there's little or no loyalty to her partner, only whatever loyalty he buys or rents on that day.

 

If she says things like she loves you, then at best that's because that's what people say to each other in relationships, not because she really knows what it means and really feels it. At worst, she's deliberately trying to manipulate your feelings to get more money.

 

It is impossible for you to have a rational discussion with her because you and her see things completely differently. She sees such a discussion as, at best, a waste of time and emotionally weak. Or at worst, interfering with her deliberate attempts to manipulate you and dig for more gold. You might as well talk to a tree to try and persuade it to uproot itself and start taking swimming lessons.

 

 

By continuing to try and negotiate a better relationship with her. Or trying to understand her behavior from your perspective. Or something like that will result in her despising you if she doesn't already.

 

Either keep giving her more money and do what she wants, until she leaves you for a better income source. Or leave her alone.

 

 

 

We all want that, and in fact we do kind of have that. But once we switch things mentally and rationally, it takes time for emotions and feelings to catch up, and until they do, those feelings are trying to persuade us to flick that mental switch back the other way.

 

 

This is typical of how your feelings are messing with your head. You feelings of feeling sorry for her are an attempt by your heart to go back to her, because your heart is in pain. You need to stay strong and remember with your head that you were used, until your heart repairs itself.

 

 

Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. Perhaps it was deliberate, perhaps it wasn't. Instead of wasting your energy on trying to justify her behavior, see it for what it was - disrespectful and demeaning to you - and go and read about emotional manipulation and blackmail.

[Tanzi]

The BU happened when I turned down (not off) the $$$ tap.

 

 

Do you really need any more evidence than that. That just about sums the relationship up in its entirety.

 

She didn't take long, either, to mourn the relationship did she? She got straight back onto the dating site in search of her next victim. She didn't even try to hide that fact. Just a thought but the dating site doesn't happen to be "SugarDaddie" does it? Anyway, if you had told us, here on eNA, that you were going to slow down the money tap and then asked us what we thought would happen, what do you think we would have said to you? We wouldn't have been wrong would we.

 

Sadly, I feel massive and appalling pain. And if the consensus view here is correct, the only one feeling the pain is me.

 

It seems so, as sorry as I am to say so. She would be looking for reasons to stay, NOT to leave if this was causing her any pain. In fact, she would have no reason to leave. The only place where she feels any pain is in her purse.

 

There's also - just perhaps - somebody there who feels badly let down, insecure, aware that time is working against her, wrongly convinced that I had no serious intentions (re marriage, say) and that I was just playing her along. That's what she's said, anyway. Yes, I know her conduct has been such as to make most men flee from marriage, and certainly slowed me down on it, so this doesn't fit the history - however, I'm not inside of her head, and she certainly had/has various ways of thinking and looking at things that I couldn't comprehend.

 

Let down by who? She certainly can't say that you have let her down. You have given her everything. Most women, if not all, would be extremely grateful and thankful to have been in her positionl. Was she? Did she show you any real gratitude? If she did I suspect it was short lived because soon she was having another money issue. Seriously, how could YOU have let her down? If letting her down is money related then that, once again, is clear proof what the relationship was ever really about.

 

Yes, probably a simpler explanation is a couple of East European friends aged in their forties who colluded or at least exchanged ideas about how to locate, seduce and then specifically discuss how to exploit or emotionally blackmail well-off men (or man) to take them/him whatever they could possibly get, regardless of the emotional mayhem they wrought and hearts they broke while doing so. That fits the facts, however unpalatable it may be to me as it suggest she never ever came close to loving me, whatever she said or did - it was all a callous, calculated act by her, and at times it got too difficult for her to carry on with the act. Fits the facts doesn't necessarily mean is true.

 

Yes, I would say this is exactly what it is and it is obviously something that you have thought long and hard about yourself. No relationship is without its issues and maybe even its doubts ... but to have doubts to this extent, to even have the notion that this could be what the relationship is possibly about, is taking it far and beyond any normal level.

 

So what part of ANY of this suggests its not true? What part of ANY of this suggests that this was a normal loving relationship and did not revolve around money at all? There is plenty of evidence that suggests she is a scheming gold-digger (who also has a mentor/partner in crime) so what evidence is there to counter balance this? You have told us nothing to suggest that she was in this for love, yet you have told us plenty to suggest she was in it for the money.

 

EVERYONEWhat do you suggest I do to reduce the pain, besides "get a dog"? Thank you for trying to help.

 

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to stop the pain. Time is our medicine. Many of us on here are going through, or have been through, this pain so you are not alone. Right now you need to accept the situation for what it is. Regardless of whether she was in it for money or for love, it is now over. Once you finally accept that you will be able to start healing.

[Tanzi]

I'm not sure what I make of this but it seems that X was an extremely heavy influence on your ex-gf. Maybe even a mentor or a senior partner in their "business".