$100+K in 12 months given, but I'm still "mean" and "stingy", she says

[unhappiest2011]

Thanks to each of you who have contributed to this thread.

 

There have been (to me) major developments / repercussions since I last posted...

 

What triggered me writing to "eNotAlone" in the first place when, after her (sort of, but never explicit) agreement to ("only") a budget/allowance of $4,100 in cash per month "all inclusive" (so I did not additionally have to pay for things from my creditcard, except gifts/holidays), she came down to where I was working and said how unhappy or upset she was that a lump-sum payment into her pension fund of $4,700 she had asked me to make was expected by me to come out of that "all inclusive" amount

 

I thought it is obvious what "all inclusive" means... EVERYTHING IS INCLUDED. Sure, any gifts, holidays I opt for, my own personal expenditure (say, gas, my own car-related) would not be included, but everything else would be. That's the only way I could plan. Because of the way my finances are set up, I need about 15-20 days from the time I decide to sell to the time I actually have cleared cash in my checking account. So I only budgeted for this $4,700. Anything more would put me into an overdraft.

So, I showed her this thread.

 

She said what I wrote was all untrue.

I said it was a timeline, and while there were plenty of good things I left out (the post was was very long already) nothing which I put in was not correct.

She would not ("could not be bothered") to point out any one thing that was not correct, or to write herself what was correct.

I thought I had been careful just to relate facts, not opinions.

 

She said I didn't start paying all her bills right in the beginning of 2010, etc., which is true (I paid most of them, but apparently SS were not picking up her mortgage interest for the first few months). But that only means the $100K total for 2010 (including the $26K loan payoff by me) showed an escalation as the year progressed.

 

She said since I thought of her in such a way there was no hope for our relationship.

But I said, where did I write anything about how I thought about her (other than that I love her)? Again, it was a financial timeline.

 

I am quite old-fashioned, my dad looked after my mom who never worked once they were married (and that was HIS choice, if anything). I don't mind financially looking after the woman I love. But if I am the only person contributing in, surely I have the right to (reasonably) set the budget/limit? Sure, that means she can't buy three Balenciaga (I'm changing the name, but it was that sort of thing) handbags in a month - I think expensive purchases should be a special treat, if they are every week then they lose their meaning, let alone the fact that I cannot afford it at those levels... The house is FULL I mean FULL of boxes that contain or contained shoes, bags, clothes, accessories...

 

The net result was I got literally kicked out of the house, with a "never come back, I will never give you another chance".

 

I think she was genuinely hurt by what I wrote. But I wrote it in order to get help, how can someone not understand what "all inclusive" means? By my reckoning, $4100 a month is a little more than she would take home (after all taxes and traveling costs) from the best long-hours banking job she could get, I could budget for it (by selling investments regularly each month), and after paying for essentials would leave her about $2,000 a month to use for savings, luxuries etc. The $$ was there in my checking account and the only decision I was asking from her was whether she wanted the pension lumpsum ($4.7K, which for complex reasons was the maximum that can be made) or for the regular budget to start. She apparently thought BOTH were implied, but the problem is while other people can spend the same $1 twice, the person actually paying (me) cannot.

 

So I'm out on the street, figuratively. Feeling desperate.

 

HELP! HELP!

[unhappiest2011]

One of the most hurtful accusations leveled at me was that I have "taken advantage of (her)" and "used (her) up", even "exploited (her)".

 

This is mainly or wholly because she hasn't (been able) to work during our relationship.

 

I don't get this. ALL my previous relationships involved both partners/spouses working. Well, in my first one, we were both at university at the beginning of our relationship (but that is working, too, and I was doing a second job as well as studying).

 

She also kept saying it was I who was obsessed with money and loved only money. I can't see how that gels with my conduct.

 

I didn't sense too much gratefulness for what I gave and did, but mainly resentfulness because I could have given more.

 

I've treated her kid as if it was my own kid (to the extent of hurting the feelings of my own flesh and blood, despite my best efforts).

 

I calculated that, leaving aside essential spending, the spending on non-essentials in 2010, including my own personal "luxuries" (few and far between, and not counted in the $100K) were in the ratio of at least 10:1 and probably 20:1 (her spending to mine). So it wasn't as if I was being a hypocrite.

 

I've loved, been faithful, paid/supported/spent for/on her, worked hard (at a regular business, now fading, as well as very stressful stockmarketing), never bawled her out or (in any way) struck her, didn't smoke/drink/do drugs, would always greet her lovingly and reassuringly... * * * have I done wrong that I should suffer this way?

 

Please, help, and in a form OTHER THAN the "you are better out of it", please...

[DN]

Sorry but she's a waste of space. And you should leave her at once. The best advice is in fact that you are 'better off out of it' whether you want that or not.

[superfox]

She's done this because you're on to her. If she lets you back after a degree of begging then it'll be on her terms of 'no more talk about money' where you'd be expected to pay again for everything. She needs to get off her lazy arse backside and contribute something herself.

 

If you have any doubts over whether you did the right thing then I suggest you meet up with the long suffering husband of her evil best friend and see how he is. The saying 'love is blind' has never been truer.

 

Your heart is saying how much you love her, do you really think she loves you? Would she be with you if you couldn't buy her 3 designer handbags a month? Truly?

 

You are worth so much more than this gold-digger, it hurts but it was never you she loved, it was your wallet

[penelope13]

There is nothing anyone can say to help you change how she is, because she doesn't want to change and knows exactly how to manipulate you: by guilt tripping you with false accusations. The fact that you can't even see it for what it is, only shows how complete her manipulation is.

 

Unless you simply close off your wallet without any more negotiations, your best avenue is to leave her. Although I highly assume she will leave you as soon as you stop paying for her.

 

If you don't do anything this situation will be resolved, as soon as you run out of money, when she will leave you to find the next person who will finance her.

[unhappiest2011]

One thing I may not have mentioned but which may be relevant..

 

As far as I know, ALL - I repeat ALL - her female friends were born in the same East European country from which she originates. This is a big part of the problem.

 

She has no lady friends from the domestic/local population.

 

One of these friends is the person I've referred to before (the one for whom a flat/house was bought by her rich local boyfriend - they were and are NOT married).

 

Another is apparently the victim of battery by her local husband, I really don't know more.

 

I was informed:

ALL THE REST ARE VERY HAPPILY MARRIED TO LOCAL MEN

ALL OF THESE HAVE ONE OR MORE KIDS FROM A PREVIOUS MARRIAGE (in that East European country)

IN ALL CASES THE (PRESENT LOCAL) HUSBAND LOOKS AFTER THEM

NONE OF THEM WORKS

THEIR HUSBANDS ARE APPARENTLY MORE THAN HAPPY AND GIVE THEM WHATEVER THEY WANT

THEY HAVE NO MONEY WORRIES

Against this background or benchmark, I'm (perhaps understandably) measured as being defective. If that's the only measure she has (remember, there are no other friends)...

 

But we've been together for (counting to get the biggest number possible) 16 months, and lived together for 12 of these. "Rome was not built in a day"

[unhappiest2011]

I add I do not think there is anything wrong in a woman needing to feel secure, including financially secure... especially if her previous marriages were with "user" types of men who provided little or nothing.

[penelope13]

I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish with your excuses for her: I don't care what someone's background is. There is no excuse for taking advantage of someone else, regardless what your friends are doing.

 

If at all, your post cements my opinion that she won't change and doesn't believe there is a need to change (have you talked to any of those friend's husbands? - their tune might be very different from what she is telling you).

 

So if you want the situation to change - you have to change it.

 

The first step is to get realistic with what you are dealing with: someone who is completely taking advantage of you.

 

If you want to keep staying in denial - that is your choice, but then it is really impossible for anyone to give you any constructive help/advice

[unhappiest2011]

To those insisting I am just being a fool or a victim.

 

While everything I wrote in the timeline is true, it is also true that I have left out things (in the interests of simplicity and space) which show her to be a kind, loving person who has herself been a victim in the past, and who has had to struggle. Nothing is one-sided....

[superfox]

To those insisting I am just being a fool or a victim.

 

While everything I wrote in the timeline is true, it is also true that I have left out things (in the interests of simplicity and space) which show her to be a kind, loving person who has herself been a victim in the past, and who has had to struggle. Nothing is one-sided....

 

Ok. So she hasn't integrated further than for meeting rich men, what's that tell you?

 

I've been a victim, I've had to (and still do) struggle. I'm a kind and loving person. I'm so kind and loving that I'm not looking for a sugar daddy to take care of me as I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror.

 

If she loves you then why does she stamp her feet and demand new shoes, new bags, more money, wah, wah, wah?

[unhappiest2011]

If she loves you then why does she stamp her feet and demand new shoes, new bags, more money

 

THANKS FOR REPLYING, but let me correct some errors in your assumptions:

 

After at the end of 2010 I calculated the amount spent by me in the year ($101K) and showed it to her, though she disputed the calculation accuracy, she has probably returned more items than purchase new ones. So she hasn't been spending very much in the last 10-11 weeks, except on traveling.

 

What she has been saying recently (last 4-6 weeks?) is this. Originally said I would have been much happier had the money I provided been used to purchase investments for her by her or in her name, rather than mainly spent on things where the resale value, if any, is much less than the cost. So it has been, why am I not doing that.

 

I had suggested the budget/monthly allowance, to cover essentials (for both of us) and non-essentials (for her only) in the range of $3,300 to $4,100, which on reflection I clarified to $4,100 per month. She never explicitly agreed to it (which including agreeing it was ALL-INCLUSIVE), instead coming up with many counter-proposals generally involving lumpsum payments to avoid hassle and stress for her every month.

Directly as a result, I haven't yet started that arrangement (so to her, I am in the wrong, yet again) - but there have been exactly 2 months in limbo, where we haven't been staying together regularly either and where I've spent on or given her (cash, paying her creditcards) a total of "only" $4K i.e. a lot less than 2 x $4,100. But then she never explicitly agreed/accepted the monthly limit, and we were staying together for maybe a quarter of the time.

 

So I am told I am someone who breaks his word, etc... you've no idea how bad I feel.

 

And now I'm out on my ear.

[penelope13]

Why do you want to stay with her?

[superfox]

She has you over a barrel, you want to go back and she knows it. I think you will go back but if you do make it on YOUR terms. Flat budget of $4 a month - if that's the amount you're happy with, anything above and beyond that has to be saved for, if she wants the latest bag then Christmas or birthday or saving or getting off her lazy bum and working for it. If she says you're mean or wrong then stuff her. It's more than genorous! I can't believe you can't see what every poster here is saying

 

I would have to ask my ex husband for £2 for Tampax every month!!! Your gf hasn't a clue how lucky she's been

[Tired Tiger]

Back to the original post...

 

Am I just making the inevitable hurt even worse by dragging this out, hoping against hope?

 

Yes.

 

Advice, please. Say the obvious by all means.

 

Seven pages worth, so far.

 

I doubt anyone here is going to provide you with a concise plan of action for making her see the financial light. All this number crunching is irrelevant, anyway. You have a lack of boundaries, and she easily manipulates that with her entitlement issues. If you really want to keep her around, just give her whatever she wants. Enable away. If you want a reasonable, functional relationship with someone who doesn't attach dollar signs to her feelings and/or status of the relationship... look elsewhere.

[DN]

She isn't living in her East European country of origin - she is living in yours and you should have made that clear. I assume she left that country because she thought she would get a better life in yours - so she should not try to cherry-pick the bits of her culture that suit her and the bits of yours that suit her and only discard those bits that don't.

 

If she refuses to understand that she is a gold-digger, if she can't understand that she is too dumb to be in a relationship with anyway.

[unhappiest2011]

She isn't living in her East European country of origin - she is living in yours and you should have made that clear. I assume she left that country because she thought she would get a better life in yours - so she should not try to cherry-pick the bits of her culture that suit her and the bits of yours that suit her and only discard those bits that don't.

If she refuses to understand that she is a gold-digger, if she can't understand that she is too dumb to be in a relationship with anyway.

 

Your first paragraph is correct and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

 

Re your second paragraph - I do not agree. I do NOT think of her as a gold-digger, but someone who is very insecure (no job for 2 years, non-supportive dad for her kid, foreign country into which she has not, for whatever reason, integrated at a social = same-sex friends level. btw she explained the reason for this is that local ladies she met casually were not of comparable education, background, class, family etc.)

 

Her own parents sound great (happily married for 45 years or so, still together, simple lives back home, no desire at all to "head west", undemanding) and she says their values are what she wants. I want those too.

[penelope13]

How do YOU define gold digger???

[biocatalyst]

Cut Bait ! Lonewing said it best ...if you had an investment losing that much money with no end in sight you'd dump it ..

You might be in love with her but if you lost everything tomorrow would she live in a shack with you? Or would she blame you for losing all your money and run for the hills?...I bet you know the answer.

Sorry and best of luck.

[unhappiest2011]

I have been told in no uncertain terms that the only way forward is if I show that she can trust me financially. She said that the monthly budget/allowance would not do that as, in her words, were the relationship to end in (say) 6 months' time, she would be left in an insecure state, as by then she'd have been out of work for 2.5 years or so.

I said such certainties aren't available in real life. The closest thing to that type of "guarantee" is marriage. However, she said that the only option is a lumpsum payment to her, which would show I am in earnest.

But I did this before when I paid off her $26K loan (paying off loan = giving lumpsum, it is the same thing)......

[DN]

I have been told in no uncertain terms that the only way forward is if I show that she can trust me financially. She said that the monthly budget/allowance would not do that as, in her words, were the relationship to end in (say) 6 months' time, she would be left in an insecure state, as by then she'd have been out of work for 2.5 years or so.

I said such certainties aren't available in real life. The closest thing to that type of "guarantee" is marriage. However, she said that the only option is a lumpsum payment to her, which would show I am in earnest.

But I did this before when I paid off her $26K loan (paying off loan = giving lumpsum, it is the same thing)......

Don't do it.

[Lonewing]

Holy ****...

 

Look, I don't know how to get through...

 

The problem here is NOT her friends.

The problem here is YOU not smelling the coffee!

Or should I say, the coffee that was, because it's burnt up and now the whole house reeks of burnt coffee!!!!!

 

You mentioned your past relationships had issues with money as well.

You still haven't learned, so here's a game plan to help you Learn Right!

And you had better Learn this Right Now, because other wise you will be 85, old, broke, alone and completley depressed if you continue down this road you're on.

 

1) Since you can't hear us and we can't get through, I suggest that you find yourself a good therapist to help you see the light. If you spent $100k on a good therapist over the next year, I think you'd be in GREAT shape, mentally, at least you'll get a LOT BETTER return on your money!

 

2) Get yourself a DOG, and learn what LOVE really is. You need companionship right now, and though I know you desire a human being, your cognitive state is in no position to be in such a position by ANY woman - you are a BAD WOMAN'S DREAM!!

 

Do seek the light, before it's too late. You're burying yourself here; GET AWAY FROM THIS WOMAN!!

[penelope13]

She is asking for money for you to prove your love/trust - what do you call that?

[Ariel85]

So, your solution to her using you, not loving you, and being an outright golddigger, is to give her a lump sum payment to show you are earnest?

 

Wow.

[Ariel85]

The problem here is YOU not smelling the coffee!

 

 

It's not coffee I'm smelling...

[Lonewing]

It's not coffee I'm smelling...

 

Have you ever smelt burnt coffee?