Changing your last name...ladies...how did/do you feel?

[FarthestEdge]

I NEVER said you demanded that. I said you think it's fine for your HUSBAND to encourage or perhaps demand his wife to do that, whichever one applies to him.

 

What men want and what a woman choice will be are NOT mutually exclusive. So when one comes up, the other one naturally comes up as well. I never said all men are oppressive, where did I say that?!!! You need to read my posts a little better. I said it would be a sad world if every man thought that way.

 

Neither applies to him. And this is why I get annoyed. Both your 'options' infer a negative intent on him. It seems as though a man is simply not allowed to have feelings on the matter without being sexist. He has his preference, and his feelings on the matter to which he is entitled and deserve equal consideration...which I gave them. Your use of the word demand, is very telling. Marriage isn't about "MY WAY" or "YOUR WAY"...it's about finding "OUR way"- the way in which both of us get as much of what we want out of the marriage, because our partner chooses to GIVE it, not because we DEMAND or TAKE it. That includes how we choose to define and present ourselves as a married couple. I see this debate no different than one on the importance (or not) of wearing wedding rings.

 

I didn't say you said it. It wasn't in quotations. It's the underlying message that I interpreted from your points....and your insistence in turning this discussion into "why don't men....." when that wasn't the topic at hand. Honestly- it doesn't matter what men SHOULD do, ultimately, it is your name and your choice so the discussion is about what you would do.

 

Anyway, I do think we agree on the overriding point that each should do as they please in this regard. We don't have to agree with the validity, or perceived lack thereof, of their reasons for their choices.

[newwave]

I wouldn't use a hyphenated name for my kids, just using my last name as a middle name (along with a regular middle name). I want my kids to have my name but I want them to have the dad's name too. Even though I seriously doubt I would change my name I would let my kids have the dad's name. This part isn't even a question in my mind because I really don't know any kids with the mom's last name except ones who were never married (and the dad abandoned them). Even the kids I know who's parents never married have their dad's name.

 

To give an example, I like the name Caitlin Maria for a girls name. Let's just say I have a daughter I can name her Caitlin Maria Smith (not my last name) Jones (not the guy I want's last name). That way she carries her dad's last name along with my last name as a middle name. If by chance I do marry the guy I want he's got a very Italian last name and my last name is Slavic. This of course could change if I marry someone else. I know in his case he expects any children to have his last name and I am fine with this. I would likely give any children the dad's name as long as he was involved.

 

Respect and pride have nothing to do with this because if that was the case then the man should change his name too. Yet this is always on the woman's back but never the guy.

[Tanzi]

Respect and pride have nothing to do with this because if that was the case then the man should change his name too. Yet this is always on the woman's back but never the guy.

 

I wouldn't say it was on the woman's back. For the most part women are happy taking their new husbands name without issue. However if an individual has a problem with it, and if the man respects the opinions of his wife-to-be, then I am sure he will agree that she can keep her maiden name even if he were to be disappointed. I am not sure that a women who doesn't agree with taking the man's name would demand that the man take her name as that would be hypocritical and which is why it doesn't often happen or "is on the guys back" as you put it.

[Sparkly Eyes]

The first man that commented here said he will not marry a girl who chooses not to do that. If it's not demanding, what is it then?! So some people do demand such a thing. Your husband had a preference and his preference encouraged you to do what he wanted. Yes you chose too but as you said his want played a role, not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, don't get all defensive again! But I think encouragement applies here. I just think my preference should be considered just as valid and doesn't mean I value my husband less.

 

 

 

Of course it ultimately does matter what men think because if no man wants a woman who makes that choice, then that woman will be alone. Just as many men who choose not to conform to society's standards might end up alone. So it's important to try to change attitudes and make people think. Anyways, I don't worry about that for myself. I'm so picky about a man's attitude that anyone I choose will most probably agree with me on this matter. He will also understand I'm not from a culture that sees such a thing necessary.

 

 

 

yes, that we agree on.

[newwave]

I wouldn't say it was on the woman's back. For the most part women are happy taking their new husbands name without issue. However if an individual has a problem with it, and if the man respects the opinions of his wife-to-be, then I am sure he will agree that she can keep her maiden name even if he were to be disappointed. I am not sure that a women who doesn't agree with taking the man's name would demand that the man take her name as that would be hypocritical and which is why it doesn't often happen or "is on the guys back" as you put it.

 

But the thing is why should it be expected a woman takes his name but not expected that he would take her name? To me it's the same thing. I wouldn't expect the man to take my name, but I also wouldn't expect he would get so mad if I didn't. If he did then he wouldn't be the guy for me. Most women take the name because it's expected and many don't even realize where the tradition came from.

[OptomisticGirl]

NW your religion of ALL religions is filled with tradition. Look at how the pope is picked!

That's a religious issue that has no point in this and which I'm not going to discuss.

 

I honestly believe feminism is its own worse enemy. I really do. Someone earlier put it correctly, its an out of control teenager. There is nothing wrong with tradition just as there is nothing wrong with breaking it. Without tradition AND broken tradition we would have nothing.

[lostnscared]

NW your religion of ALL religions is filled with tradition. Look at how the pope is picked!

 

I honestly believe feminism is its own worse enemy. I really do. Someone earlier put it correctly, its an out of control teenager. There is nothing wrong with tradition just as there is nothing wrong with breaking it. Without tradition AND broken tradition we would have nothing.

 

I agree with you (about feminism).

[FarthestEdge]

I just think my preference should be considered just as valid and doesn't mean I value my husband less.

 

Of course it ultimately does matter what men think. .

 

I guess I just don't see where you think your preference isn't considered? I mean legally, no one can force you to change your name, only you have the power to do so..or not...so not only is your preference considered, it is the only one legally required.

 

No, it doesn't. It matters what YOUR MAN thinks. Just as it doesn't matter what I might think of your choices, it doesn't matter what my husband might think of your choices. We have equal rights under the law. How we choose to exercise those rights is up to us. I don't need to burn my bra to keep those rights. Not to belittle what the founding feminists did for women, but the battle is already won. Moving on....I'd rather focus my energy on battles yet to be won (i.e. gay rights) and let time do it's job in terms of changing perceptions. But jumping up and down about how previous generations viewed things changes nothing.

 

IMO, part of being 'equal' and an adult, includes the ability to recognize and accept that the rest of the world won't always agree with your view on things. So long as no one is interfering with your right to have them, or act on them, does it really matter?

 

People attribute 'expectations' that they don't even know exist. Besides, who cares what their 'expectations' are? If others have expectations about how I live my life, and I fail to meet those expectations, they can deal with it, or remove me from their lives. I won't be held hostage in my own life to the perceived expectations of others.

[newwave]

NW your religion of ALL religions is filled with tradition. Look at how the pope is picked!

 

I honestly believe feminism is its own worse enemy. I really do. Someone earlier put it correctly, its an out of control teenager. There is nothing wrong with tradition just as there is nothing wrong with breaking it. Without tradition AND broken tradition we would have nothing.

 

I would agree that feminism is out of control but not in this regards. It out of regards with the loosening of morals. However that is not the point of this thread and why people keep bringing up my religious views I don't get. I'm not bringing up my religious views again and I'd appreciate others don't either.

[Fudgie]

Does it affect your decision that you are keeping your daddy's name but won't take another man's name? I am not criticizing your decision at all just wondering if you ever thought of it that way.

 

Yeah I think how I grew up has affected my choice. I mean, doesn't our upbringing affect most of our choices at one point or another?

 

I wouldn't love my husband any less just because I don't take his name. I just don't want to. Heck, I could be marrying Bill Gates (assuming he drops Mellinda) and I will never be Mrs. Gates. None of it matters to me...I want my name to be the same from birth and reflect my family/upbringing. I don't want it changing because I decide to marry.

 

Like I said before, I am not defined by who I choose to spend my days with, I'd rather be defined by what I spend my time doing (career) and my family, so that's why I'd leave my name alone.

 

Any guy who doesn't respect my choice isn't worth my time.

[newwave]

I do know cases where a guy would not marry a woman unless she changed her mind and the woman gave in. If people weren't so afraid of being alone there would be less instances of it. I can think of three women on the tip of my brain who ALL wanted to keep their maiden name. Their husbands TOLD them that if they didn't take his name he would break up. The women all gave in. I'm willing to bet that if women were more insistent of keeping their name, many guys will give in more. I've read somewhere like 94% of men expect women to change their names, but something like 30% don't (or hyphenate it) so that means many men give in or they aren't that obsessed with this.

[OptomisticGirl]

It is in this regard. Tradition says we take our husbands name. Feminism and its o7t of control ways goes the opposite direction. Why? Because they can. Simple as yhat. Because women were looked at as property years ago and these traditions were set then, then therefore those traditions are horse dung because they were made back then is what feminism thinks.

[Tanzi]

The first man that commented here said he will not marry a girl who chooses not to do that. If it's not demanding, what is it then?! So some people do demand such a thing.

 

That is probably because he isn't "there" yet. If he was to meet someone, fall in love, wish to mary and then get hit with the bombshell that she doesn't want to change her name he might well have a different opinion. If he really believes that she has a valid reason for not wanting to change her name and its not being done to prove some point or other then I am sure he would learn to accept it. After all what really is in a name if you love someone?

 

I think it is likely that most men are going to assume that the woman would take their name upon marriage. It is what is deemed the norm and I suspect that any man would find it questionnable to learn that the person they want to marry specifically doesn't want to take their name. However with questions asked, satisfied answers given, insecurities quashed I'm sure they will be accepting. Is someone really going to walk away from the one they love because they won't take their name? I mean, really?

[Sparkly Eyes]

I guess I just don't see where you think your preference isn't considered? I mean legally, no one can force you to change your name, only you have the power to do so..or not...so not only is your preference considered, it is the only one legally required.

 

well, legally I can. I was mentioning to what you said about my choice meaning I care more about my parents than my husband.

 

No, it doesn't. It matters what YOUR MAN thinks. Just as it doesn't matter what I might think of your choices, it doesn't matter what my husband mught think of your choices. We have equal rights under the law. How we choose to exercise those rights is up to us. I don't need to burn my bra to keep those rights. Not to belittle what the founding feminists did for women, but the battle is already won. Moving on....I'd rather focus my energy on battles yet to be won (i.e. gay rights) and let time do it's job in terms of changing perceptions. But jumping up and down about how previous generations viewed things changes nothing.

 

It's not about feminism. If you open your mind a little, you'll see that it's just about questioning traditions. And I guess that's the difference between me and you. I don't think just about myself as I know I myself will be fine. The reason Im posting here is to make other people think and maybe make us a better society as a whole. Obviously at the end, for me, it would matter what my man thinks. But that was not the point of my post.

[FarthestEdge]

I do know cases where a guy will not marry a woman unless she changes her mind and the woman gave in. If people weren't so afraid of being alone there would be less instances of it. I can think of three women on the tip of my brain who ALL wanted to keep their maiden. Their husbands TOLD them that if they didn't take his name he would break up. The women all gave in. I'm willing to be that if women were more insistent of keeping their name, many guys will give in more. I've read somewhere like 94%of men expect to change their names, but something like 30% don't (or hyphenate it) so that means many men give in or they aren't that obsessed with this.

 

Then I guess those women decided the marriage was MORE important.

 

That was a dealbreaker issue for those men.

 

We could have the same discussion regarding whether or not the woman and man wanted children, or were ok with drinking, or whether or not porn in the relationship is ok, or if religion plays a role in your future childrens lives, or if wearing wedding rings is mandatory.... The outcome is the same. Your values should align. If they don't then each has to decide how important what they want IS, and whether or not the person they plan to be with is worth the sacrifice. If not, then you are in the wrong relationship, and likely should not marry.

[Tanzi]

But the thing is why should it be expected a woman takes his name but not expected that he would take her name? To me it's the same thing. I wouldn't expect the man to take my name, but I also wouldn't expect he would get so mad if I didn't. If he did then he wouldn't be the guy for me. Most women take the name because it's expected and many don't even realize where the tradition came from.

 

Its expected in the sense that it is an assumption as opposed to an ultimatum. That doesn't mean to say that it has to be.

[OptomisticGirl]

To play devils advocate, those that use tradition as a bad reason to take a man's name, who did the proposing in your marriage? I'm just curious.

[FarthestEdge]

well, legally I can. I was mentioning to what you said about my choice meaning I care more about my parents than my husband.

 

 

 

It's not about feminism. If you open your mind a little, you'll see that it's just about questioning traditions. And I guess that's the difference between me and you. I don't think just about myself as I know I myself will be fine. The reason Im posting here is to make other people think and maybe make us a better society as a whole. Obviously at the end, for me, it would matter what my man thinks. But that was not the point of my post.

 

You DID say you loved your mother more than anyone....including, presumably, your husband. No matter, we are talking about different things at this point.

 

Don't appreciate being called closed-minded..oh, and self-centred (just caught that one!)...but whatever...I guess I feel society is best served when people learn to be confident in their own choices, and not feel the need to whine and complain about what others SHOULD do. Or justify their choices by tearing down the choices of others....

 

To each his own, I guess.

 

 

Traditions evolve....always have, always will.

[FarthestEdge]

To play devils advocate, those that use tradition as a bad reason to take a man's name, who did the proposing in your marriage? I'm just curious.

 

Yeah, and how many would we find with posts in the ever-present engagement ring threads talking about how much their ring should cost? Hmmmm, convenient to value THAT tradition, isn't it?

[Tanzi]

There is nothing wrong with tradition just as there is nothing wrong with breaking it.

 

Totally agree.

[newwave]

People are blaming the wrong source. This is not because of "feminism". If that was the case then why is it very uncommon in Muslim countries to take the husband's name? I highly doubt feminism plays a part in these countries. Second, I know feminists who take their husband's names. The only thing feminism changed about this is the option of changing your name. As far as I know the feminist organizations don't even have an opinion about this at all. I went to NOW's site and they had seven articles about this, mostly about Turkey and about job applications. I went to Feminist Majority and found an article about celebs changing their maiden names. None of these apply to the topic.

 

Sure feminism can be blamed for many bad things. It also helped women have equality. With this discussion it makes no sense to blame them. Sure many feminists think taking the husband's name is anti feminist, but that can said of anything. Besides there are feminists accross the board and not all agree with everything.

[FarthestEdge]

Except that people are asserting that taking the mans name implies ownership or subservience. Which it may have done historically, but certainly since the onset of feminism, this is not the case....However many use that to insinuate that choosing to take your husbands name perpetuates that notion that you are subservient, or owned by your husband.

[Tanzi]

I do know cases where a guy would not marry a woman unless she changed her mind and the woman gave in. If people weren't so afraid of being alone there would be less instances of it. I can think of three women on the tip of my brain who ALL wanted to keep their maiden name. Their husbands TOLD them that if they didn't take his name he would break up. The women all gave in. I'm willing to bet that if women were more insistent of keeping their name, many guys will give in more. I've read somewhere like 94% of men expect women to change their names, but something like 30% don't (or hyphenate it) so that means many men give in or they aren't that obsessed with this.

 

Again they probably expected by way of an assumption. If they were prepared to walk away from an impending marriage because the women wouldn't take their name then they couldn't have really loved these women. Are you sure it wasn't less of a demand and more of an insecurity issue?

[Sparkly Eyes]

You DID say you loved your mother more than anyone....including, presumably, your husband. No matter, we are talking about different things at this point.

 

Don't appreciate being called closed-minded..oh, and self-centred (just caught that one!)...but whatever...I guess I feel society is best served when people learn to be confident in their own choices, and not feel the need to whine and complain about what others SHOULD do. Or justify their choices by tearing down the choices of others....

 

To each his own, I guess.

 

 

Traditions evolve....always have, always will.

 

I don't have a husband. All the husband talk I made was for a potential husband. At this point, I think I love my mother the most obviously.

 

I'm very passionate about helping people think about and justify their choices, the reason we are on this board is this very reason. Yes, there are some things that I think people SHOULD do and I'm not ashamed of admitting it. I think people SHOULD respect gays, they SHOULD condemn abuse, They SHOULD question their beliefs and never blindly follow something etc... . But I agree with you that arguing about who takes who's last name is not really high on my list, but that doesn't mean I can't debate about it.

 

of course, traditions change. It's also interesting to know that most of them has expired, many of which you might not even know they existed. I won't be surprised if in a few generations this one get expired as well,

[newwave]

Except that people are asserting that taking the mans name implies ownership or subservience. Which it may have done historically, but certainly since the onset of feminism, this is not the case....However many use that to insinuate that choosing to take your husbands name perpetuates that notion that you are subservient, or owned by your husband.

 

But that's where the tradiiton started and that's a fact. Same thing with slaves taking their masters last name too. In SOME cases that's why women still take the last name, because they expect the husband to be head of the house. Others take it to be a family, which I get (which is why I MIGHT consider the hyphenating name).

 

I don't care if other women don't take their husband's last name, but I also don't think it should be forced on a woman to do so.