The age of 25

[longdist]

IMO, short courtships in the past work b/c that was the norm and couples weren't allowed to have 2 independent minds. Marriages were highly patriarchal (which I think is unfortunate, but yet true) and for a long time women would "fall in line" and somewhat "accept" their fate. Divorces were very taboo. That doesn't necessarily mean that both people are happy. Just look at the slightly exaggerated show Madmen. That's a period where all of this started changing (60s). Two independent minds conflict more than when one of those is submissive.

 

While someone might only divulge certain information about themselves, there is still much more you can learn from their mannerisms and character before getting married. However, at the beginning both people are blinded by "love" and furthermore try to hide many of their faults. Just look at your previous relationship. While, it's possible that you still won't know certain things about your partner after some time, and while it's possible that the couple may be a great match w/o really getting to KNOW each other, I would fathom a guess that statistics would indicate 2 happier people if they gave the courtship some time. Also, I want emphasize that you don't get to know someone by just talking to them for a fraction of a year, no matter how much information they provide.

 

Like it was said before, we ALL think we don't fall in the center of the bell curve. However, if that were the case, you wouldn't have a bell curve.

[daffodil444]

Oh we can get married broke and poor, working minimum wage" is highly immature and not realistic at all.

 

it certainly isn't, although i think the people who are downplaying the financial security aspect of the topic at hand are more so trying to make the point that we don't need to be 100% settled financially in order to get married (though it's certainly preferable and will make things easier in many ways). Broke, poor, working minimum wage? no i agree that doesn't go. But for successfully working towards the top (aka making much more than minimum wage, steady jobs with comfortable incomes and room for growth, ability to pay all necessary bills, etc) couples, they could make that work (as long as they become really financially secure before having kids).

[lostnscared]

The problem is that your still basing this off of exceptions rather than the "reality" for what happens for "average" people, which tend to include MOST individuals. Yes exceptions marry in haste and make it work. But just because there are exceptions does not mean that the rule of thumb does not apply. For most people, it's imperative that you know your "so" in and out for a longer period of time before making such a commitment. The fact that you are young AND have barely been with your "so" is why people are telling you that being "haste" in this situation may not be a good idea. There are tons of young couples, like you, who thought the same thing as you, "I'm so in love with him, this is the healthiest relationship I've been in, yes I've only known him for 5 months but I want to get married to him". And these same "said" couples, find themselves on the brink of divorce years later, when the reality of such a "haste" HUGE decision may not have been thoughout. The "rational" part of the brain for most under 25 is not in tip top shape. That is why for the most part, young twenty somethings tend to make very impulsive decisions, that seem right, based on the idealistic approach that they are the exception and that they know best. It's why we are called "young and dumb". I hate to say it but since I've been on ENA the majority of people who've had haste engagements, and made these sort of decisions, have been young twenty somethings and it just really all boils down to the fact that many of us(me included) have a really idealistic, limited "view" on the concept of marriage, and while we know it will be tough, and hard, we THINK we are ready for it. Years later, we realize we weren't.

No I'm not suggesting that every young twenty something is dumb, or irrational, or making a bad choice when they chose to get married or engage in haste or young. I've talked to OG several times and I think that her situation is a bit different, as is yours obviously, but for the most part a lot of young people aren't ready.

There is a clear difference between the times. In our parents days things were much different, divorce was a stigma, everyone got married young and acquired much responsibility and independence at much earlier ages. Nowadays there is proven research, and reason, as to why most adults are not equipped to handle a marriage under 25. And beyond the divorce stats, scientific research about the brain, and the fact that financial stability is more than often NOT acquired until late twenties, for the "average" person it just stands that it isn't the chosen path.

OP: Your bf already owned a house, before you moved in with him, he already was financially stable, already experienced in his career, and already "ready" for this commitment obviously. He is 31 so clearly he is at an advantage in where he is, that for all intent purposes the average 20-25 year old is not. Before living with him, did you own a home, already experienced in career, and were you ready for such a commitment (at 21/22?). Probably not on all of the levels, and that is the position that MOST 20-24 year old's are in--they aren't in a "situated" environment where they are fully equipped(financially, mentally, experience wise, and emotionally) for such a huge commitment.

The ones who are, well they are the exceptions.

[lostnscared]

it certainly isn't, although i think the people who are downplaying the financial security aspect of the topic at hand are more so trying to make the point that we don't need to be 100% settled financially in order to get married (though it's certainly preferable and will make things easier in many ways). Broke, poor, working minimum wage? no i agree that doesn't go. But for successfully working towards the top (aka making much more than minimum wage, steady jobs with comfortable incomes and room for growth, ability to pay all necessary bills, etc) couples, they could make that work (as long as they become really financially secure before having kids).

 

Well I was responding to the poster who stated that she would get married, if both worked at Walmart and lived in a broke down apartment. That is minimum wage. And that is not the ideal "start" to a marriage. Of course every couple has a different idea of what financial stability is. But for me it was very important that prior to marriage I had graduated college, I had worked for 2-3 years in a career that was promising, and that I made enough money to own a house, and live a comfortable lifestyle ALONG with my "so". I wanted to have assets prior to marriage as well. And a great start financially. That was what I WANTED. Clearly not everyone wants that. But the whole, "let's get married young, broke, and live in a sh**hole" is very much someone with limited life experience and an "idealistic"(unrealistic) outlook on marriage, would say.

For some people, all they require is that they both make 15 dollars an hour, and at least have a degree. To me that wasn't enough. I live in Chicago and it's a high COA, for most couples buying a house in a decent neighborhood means that you at least make 50k (separately, with a grand total of 100k together) if NOT more. I understand that in other areas, it's cheaper to buy a house, and live. But for where I live, you cannot buy a house, or live in a nice apartment, or in a safe area, making less than $18 an hour. But I understand that not everyone wants that same financial stability as I. I just think it is incredibly naive to want to get married when you are broke and obviously can barely afford to.

There is always a clear difference between the "start" of marriage(the first few years) of those that married when they were financially stable, and those that chose to get married young and broke.

[lostnscared]

This is true. And I agree. Marriage is a gamble. But it's always better to at least be as prepared as possible, so that it's much smoother, and enjoyable. The couples who choose not to, definitely have a harder adjustment period, more struggles and obstacles(initially) than those that come together as man and wife in a stable situation. But I do think that as far as what stability entails just really depends on the couple.

[lostnscared]

Omigosh I so agree with you.

[newwave]

That's why you do a courthouse wedding like we are, lol

 

But it's not that easy. Many of the people I know who are unmarried are unmarried because they either don't want to marry, haven't met the right person or other reasons.

[OptomisticGirl]

But it's not that easy. Many of the people I know who are unmarried are unmarried because they either don't want to marry, haven't met the right person or other reasons.

 

Well yes, you are have to WANT to be married. I suggusted the courthouse on the financial bases of paying for a wedding yourselves.

[newwave]

I am older than most of you and I wanted to agree with the point on how you change. I look at myself at 20 and at 30 and what a difference 10 years makes. When I was 20 I wanted to get married, even thought I found the right guy, but you know what? If I had married my boyfriend then I'd be divorced now. It's very realistic to marry after you have established a career because MONEY is the number one thing people fight about. Plus as you get older you have a more realistic view of love and marriage. You realize love is more complex. I will be 40 in January and the differences between being 30 and being 40 aren't as large as 20-30.

 

I hope those of you getting married make it, but I have a suspicion several of you will be back in a few years talking about your upcoming divorce. I really hope I am wrong but have seen this mentality to many 20 year olds I knew who married and then divorced.

[civilservant]

In that case newwave we'll be back in a few years to accept your apology...

[sweetpea03]

I think a lot of people think that is the age where most people are more "mature", so it's the age to start thinking of marriage. Though there are people who are mature for there age and can handle getting married younger. I don't think age is a big factor at all. I do think maturity is and also if you really know the person you are with. I think you need to really know someone before making that big step. I've been with my boyfriend for a year and we've been talking about getting engaged, but haven't yet. We're taking things slow. I'm 21 and my boyfriend is 31. I've heard plenty of people who say I am too young to be making the next step, they state statistics as their reasoning or personal experience. They got divorced because they married young. Well if you have really thought it through, talked about it, and are willing to always work at the relationship, then it will work out. You just have to be serious about the commitment. People are always changing and growing, so I don't think there is an age limit to when you can get married. People will always make comments, so you'll just have to learn to let those roll off your back. I've gotten better at doing that since being with my boyfriend, since a number of people don't like the age gap.

[longdist]

Please excuse this rant, but has anyone noticed how pointless it is to give advice? I'm not just talking about this thread. There's often a question posed about a relationship or breakup all over ENA. Usually right off hand you can tell the person's stance. Generally you'll have a bunch of experienced people that have been through the situation before telling the op that they might want to rethink their viewpoint. Then the op will give all of the reasons why they don't fall in the norm and why their relationship is so special and different. Isn't it weird how all ops on ENA fall outside the standard deviation of statistics? On breakup forums you have everyone asking if whatever their ex did is a sign that they want to get back together or if they should contact their ex. The general consensus is almost always no and no respectively. The advice is almost always thrown aside. The same seems to be true here. You just get a checklist of why their relationships don't fall into the normal category. What's the point of giving advice on any of these forums. People are generally going to do what they want and disregard what everyone else is saying when the advice doesn't fall into their false sense of reality.

 

Don't worry, I've been on the other side of the coin too in regards to not listening to advice. So, I'm not attempting to be a hypocrite, but trying to make an observation.

 

The rant is done. Carry on.

[OptomisticGirl]

^^ I can understand this. I can't speak for everyone else who is getting married young but for me, I understand where those who say to wait is better. I understand the scientific point of view on it. I can see where they come from. It's not that I don't believe it applies to me, my relationship has just as much chance of failing as the next. All it takes is wrong communication and ANY relationship can hit the rocks. For me I can understand how waiting is better for some people, but I know for me I see nothign wrong with getting married young as long as the two know what they are getting into. Recklessly marrying someone, yes, there is something wrong there. So while I know CS and I are ready to marry by our standards and are as prepared as we are now, I also know it only takes one misstep for this loving relationship to turn into divorce. And int he end, that is all any one can do--young, old, or middle aged. Is not take that wrong step. Do people over 25 tend to not in divorce? Sure. But I don't think the age factor should be the ONLY thing to be considered when talking divorce rate of any age.

[SayWhen]

I think age is maturity and experience more than it is time. Obviously within a longer time frame one can experience more and mature more...but that doesn't mean it's guaranteed with age. I think a marriage is far more likely to succeed with mature/experienced individuals than not. Again, most people associate this with age...but there are many other factors.

 

I feel I have experienced a lot more in my life than most my age. I've traveled to over 20 countries, lived in Africa, traveled accross the US, I've supported myself since the age of 19 and I work in a very challenging field (I work with emotionally disturbed/abused children in the inner-city). I will keep experiencing more, and I'm looking forward to life every day, just moreso now that my FH is a part of it. I was not looking for someone to marry, but when you find someone you cannot live without rather than someone who you can just manage to live with...you just don't let that go. Maybe some think you can live all that out to the fullest without marriage...and I'd respect that and agree on a case-by-case basis.

 

Also, I've known my FH for much longer than five months. That is the length of our relationship (well, actually our first official date was in early April, but that was very casual)...we've been friends for awhile. Again, still, as I said you only can know what someone wants you to know and no one knows what the future holds...some of the most prepared people for marriage have some of the quickest divorces.

 

I will report back in five years... ;-). Btw my FH is 30.

[OptomisticGirl]

So, what if one person is over 25 and the other is younger? How would you say the two opposing ages over 25 could make or break a marriage? I ask this because in the light of the whole '25 age' debate, I am under 25 but my fiance is 26. While I see myself as a very mature 22 year old, I also know there will be more change.

[SayWhen]

I think there's a difference between advice and perspective...I think most will take all perspectives into account but advice will often not be taken since we all choose for ourselves...there are times I probably would have been better off doing one thing rather than another but I regret nothing because I have learned greatly from my "mistakes" and I think that is one of the most valuable and worthwhile experiences in life.

[SayWhen]

So, what if one person is over 25 and the other is younger? How would you say the two opposing ages over 25 could make or break a marriage? I ask this because in the light of the whole '25 age' debate, I am under 25 but my fiance is 26. While I see myself as a very mature 22 year old, I also know there will be more change.

 

My FH is 30 and I think it makes a huge difference because he owns his own home (no mortgage), he owns his own car, he has paid off his student loans, he has a very stable career and a lot in savings...among other things. I think I will change much more than he will...but regardless we will continue to support each other and work together in our commitment.

[newwave]

In that case newwave we'll be back in a few years to accept your apology...

 

I wasn't specifically talking about your situation but hopefully in a few years I'll be married myself. I do hope everyone makes it but the stats state otherwise.

[newwave]

Exactly. I don't really look at anything as asking/giving advice but rather sharing experiences. Since none of us know each other personally we don't know the specific issues to each relationship. Plus there are people who will be negative and say "it'll never work" (this is the case with breakups and dating). I've seen people defy the logic of certain issues. I've seen people break up and reunite and people who didn't speak for months, even years reunite and get married.

[OptomisticGirl]

I wasn't specifically talking about your situation but hopefully in a few years I'll be married myself. I do hope everyone makes it but the stats state otherwise.

 

I still say the stats don't take into account other factors that lead to a divorce. Maybe if they said 'people under the age of 25 whose communication failed in marriage' etc. I could buy it, but people's marriages don't just fall apart because of their age. Can age factor into it? Sure. But it's not the sole reason in many cases.

[The_Seeker]

I still say the stats don't take into account other factors that lead to a divorce. Maybe if they said 'people under the age of 25 whose communication failed in marriage' etc. I could buy it, but people's marriages don't just fall apart because of their age. Can age factor into it? Sure. But it's not the sole reason in many cases.

 

I don't think age is the factor. My mom got married to my dad when she was 19 and my dad was 23. Yea they got married young. ;] 1980s? Haha. Also in less than 2 weeks.

 

So I think it's more like the culture, and what you both want. But then again, my parents had an arrange marriage but my mom could backed out if she didn't want my dad. In the end she saw him as a hardworking money and she respect that.

[sweetpea03]

My parents got married at 23 and are still together. My boyfriend's parents got married at 21 and 25 and they are still together.

 

I think if the couple thinks of marriage as very important and are serious about it, then they can make it work.

[Circe]

I think it's a bad idea trying to relate our world to the one that existed generations ago. Far too much has changed in every way (socially, culturally, politically, ...) .. in every way. It's not the same world anymore. You have to look at what works and doesn't work in this world - not the one your grandparents or generations before them grew up in. In the world we live in, getting married young and getting married before you know the person you are marrying well (ie there's been enough time for you to see as many shades of their personality as possible) are not factors that make success in marriage more likely. That's the relevant information here. The fact that things were different in the generation or two before .. really.. we don't live in that world, that's why their rules don't apply to us.

[Circe]

but I know for me I see nothign wrong with getting married young as long as the two know what they are getting into.

 

Can I be honest?

 

I worry for you. You in particular, because from the posts of yours I've read, I can tell you really are a very intelligent, caring, loving, compassionate, warm, wonderful woman. You have so much going for you. Marriage is a gamble, but as you've acknowledged, statistically, your gamble is riskier (both because of the lack of time you've spent together [you are long distance, right?] and your age).

 

When you say "I see nothing wrong with getting married young as long as the two people know what they are getting into" - honestly.. I just don't think anyone can know what they are getting into before they get married. Oh they can know, on paper or intellectually that it takes good communication, that people will change, that people grow, that there will be tough times, that you will have your differences etc. But you can only "know" all this on an intellectual/theoretical level. Experiencing it and handling it well is a completely different thing. And I do believe being older will help when it comes down to it. Being older is no guarantee that you'll survive the reality of 'what you're getting into' - but it will really help significantly.

 

I just have a feeling you are a really special person - I hope the best for you.

[OptomisticGirl]

yes, we are LDR. And I agree with you, no one knows what they are getting into before marriage, and that can honestly apply to people over 25 as well as those who marry after a short time of knowing someone. CS and I are both children of divorce, we know first hand what that does to children and the people in involved, which is the key reason why I think we see it as such an important step to take. We both admit we have no idea what they future will hold. We could be divorced in 20 years. No one marries with the intent to divorce of course. I understand people worry about our marriage but as we have said before, no one knows the inner workings of a relationship other than the two people involved. I don't believe we are the exception to the rule because honestly, there is NO exception to the rules when it comes to marriage. Anyone can end in divorce, all it takes is one misstep along the way and no one is immuned from that misstep, even CS and me. That's why I think marriage is a constant work of the two partners, to make sure that doesn't occur. Do younger people tend to not realize this? Sure. I can agree, but that doesn't solely have to do with their age. It could be their first relationship and they haven't honed their communication skills and communication skills have nothing to do with age as we have established before.

 

I know I'm a more mature woman then I was when I was with my ex. And yes indigo, you are right, it's all well to say and know those things but much harder to practice them. And it is-for anyone though. I think because of the distance CS and I have to hone our communication skills with each other even more then a normal couple because really, that's all we have. When we fight (and we do, as all couples do) one of us just can't walk away from it because we are on the phone. So it forces us to up them. Thank you for the post though Indigo, that was very sweet what you said.

 

And while I admit that sometimes waiting until you are older is less risker to marry, where would the fun in life be without risks? Smart risks, I should say. CS and I could easily wait until I was older to marry but we both want to accomplish things as a married couple before the old man reaches a certain age (hahaha, he'll love that one). And, we love each other. Sometimes when you find that person you just know as disneyish as it sounds.