ugly truth about women and 'alpha' males?

[heloladies21]

You are saying "most" men will chose not to act with integrity. I think it's sad for you that you think that way about "most" of your sex.

That's exactly what I'm saying, and I base it on the observations with my own two eyes. And these are married men, men in relationships, single men. I obviously get the inside scoop because guys brag about this kind of stuff, even strangers I've never met before! And it's not like I live in the belly of hell itself, I'm upper middle class professional, but interact with al races and levels of income. I meet party animals and those that have never stepped inside a bar. It is a good cross section.

 

I find it strange that you would feel sad for me. I personally have no connection to this either way. So what if most men would cheat, what difference does it make to me? I'm not dating them so I am not at risk of being hurt. I personally don't cheat, but my situation and views on this are quite unique compared to most guys.

 

Sorry for the harsh truth, I feel for you girls. But realize I didn't make it this way.

[Circe]

The reason I feel for you is because you think so little if your own gender. I think that's sad.

 

Anyway, even though you seem to think your anecdotal evidence is the last word on this, let me put this to you.

 

All the research on this ... (and don't start with people arent "honest" in studies. They actually do cater to that issue when doing the studies and provide safeguards to encourage honesty - like total annonymity for instance) ...

 

... suggests that less than 50% of men in my country (and I think its even less in others) have failed to be monogomous.

 

Given that everyone gets an opportunity to cheat at some point in their life.. that proves your anecdotal evidence wrong.

[Lowconfidence]

You are saying "most" men will chose not to act with integrity. I think it's sad for you that you think that way about "most" of your sex.

 

There's nothing wrong with thinking/knowing that your own sex lacks integrity.

 

I'm sure I don't come accross as many males as HeloLadies21, but from the ones in my life I do know men like to brag about conquests, pursue attached women, cross the line as to what is friendly and not, pretend to be friends in hopes of getting sex/relationships, basically almost anything goes.

 

Thank god I have formed this opinion about males, because I hate to be naive about my gender.

[Lowconfidence]

So what if most men would cheat, what difference does it make to me? I'm not dating them so I am not at risk of being hurt.

 

But doesn't it bother you that when you are going out with someone, some guy is disrepecting you behind your back by either flirting with her or 'gaming' her knowing fully aware she's in a relationship with you?

 

Nothing will ever change my opinion most guys are dogs with no integrity and will do anything in their power to cheat on their SO or try and sleep with your SO.

[COtuner]

I tend to agree with you based on what I see. I know lots of guys who have cheated, guys who will cheat given the right chance, and guys who want to cheat but are too afraid of getting caught. And I work with people of all ages, cultures and income levels. I have ended up in a relationship with a guy who was cheating when we first started dating (but I did not know it until later)

[tastytoothpaste]

I see what you're saying, but it works both ways. The same thing can be said for men needing to "spread their seed" by screwing younger, hotter women than their wife.

[heloladies21]

Thank god I have formed this opinion about males, because I hate to be naive about my gender.

Of course, and this is smart because you can then compare your own actions to others and then decide what is right and wrong for you. A lot of guys have a goal of understanding women better in the hope of learning how to have better relationships, but they skip such an important step in learning how to understand their own tendancies. That's what helped me the most in being able to have a successful relationship.

[heloladies21]

But doesn't it bother you that when you are going out with someone, some guy is disrepecting you behind your back by either flirting with her or 'gaming' her knowing fully aware she's in a relationship with you?

How about every week when we go to a club and they'll hit on her right in front of me! It doesn't bother me, of course not, because they owe no duty to me. I mean, how does he know I'm even a good guy? Maybe I'm some domestic abuser/lying/cheating SOB myself! My gf has the duty to act correct because she's the one in the agreement to be exclusive. Obviously if they offend her, then I have to step in, but everything before that is on her.

[Kantriakhor]

Irrelevant. I could be offended by a bird making fun of me for not having wings, but it doesn't change the fact.

 

Speaking of irrelevance, a bird making fun of me because I can't fly i one party making fun of another party that they can't do what the first party can. In this situation I'm taking offense because of someone is making judgments based on gender about what they are likely to do. Just because your group is likely to do it doesn't mean you can speak for anyone other than them, let alone me.

 

If a fact is not a fact under all circumstances then you can't call it a fact, but you can call it an opinion. So I respect your right to have that opinion, but where I live, the people I know, it's quite different than yours so holding mine as an absolute truth would be just as foolish as you proclaiming it as fact but what this does derive is the answer: it's all a matter of personal choices and the type of people, male or female, we choose to be.

[Eire1]

Well, I've been cheated on by two different women in my entire life and I've never cheated on anyone. I have male friends that have cheated, and some that never have.

 

Yes, both sexes are driven (given strong urges) to want to cheat -- like most primates -- but we have something the primates probably don't, and that's a moral conscience, willpower to overcome urges, etc. Humans fight against urges, compulsions, and desires everyday.

 

I have a friend who walks around the world like it's one big candy store. No self control. He walks past a candy shop, he's in there -- buying all he can afford. He's cheated on his wife, and he has no regrets. The opportunity presented itself and he jumped and he'd do it again without a second thought.

 

But, he's got no self-control. I have a lot of self-control. Human beings have literally starved themselves to death to make political statements and statements of principle. Anyone who believes that humans can't resist sexual urges is being a bit naive.

[mrmaximum]

i was quite surprised at how many men actually cheat or would if they got the chance. I've said this on this forum before after having many 'locker room' talks with many a man. There are many times that I feel sorry for women due to the fact at how many guys have cheated, or would cheat if they knew they could get away with it. I can't speak for the people that HL or the rest of people know, but the bottom line is I am amazed at the demographic; these guys where upwardly mobile, one had just bought his own house, another invested regularly and took courses online and in nightschool, and the last person who pretty much outright told me that he would jump a model's bones even though he was married, owned his own business and made 6 figures a year.

 

Believe you me, I was surprised at how non plussed some of the guys where at the idea of cheating. A very eye opening experience.

[melrich]

I've said this on this forum before after having many 'locker room' talks with many a man.

 

I find that really interesting. I have never, in social or professional circles, had another man tell me he would be willing to cheat on his wife/girlfriend.

 

Now I am not saying that I don't know men that have done this, I do. I am also sure that plenty would if given the opportunity. But where I come from, you would never ever say something like that, it would be akin to saying you like pulling wings off flies...you would be looked upon as a turd and I don't know any men who would like to be looked upon like that.

 

I don't get, even if you were intending to cheat, why you would tell anyone. Are their some groups of people out there somewhere that actually think it is an admirable activity?

[heloladies21]

I don't get, even if you were intending to cheat, why you would tell anyone. Are their some groups of people out there somewhere that actually think it is an admirable activity?

Of course, and it's sloppy. I imagine that it's more prevalent in Western cultures such as the US and Canada where men seem to have a more reckless attitude towards women. Not brought up with the same moral compass.

[driftwood]

After 14 pages, I basically have concluded what I feared: That women offer themselves to alphas and use their men as providers.

 

I don't trust anyone now. I think I'm meant to live alone. Or, turn it around and just use women, something I never would have done before my 'education'. I was a grade A sucker thinking that women would treat me well if I treated them well.

[heloladies21]

After 14 pages, I basically have concluded what I feared: That women offer themselves to alphas and use their men as providers.

 

I don't trust anyone now. I think I'm meant to live alone. Or, turn it around and just use women, something I never would have done before my 'education'. I was a grade A sucker thinking that women would treat me well if I treated them well.

Your free to make this decision on your own and I will not judge you in either direction, but the reasoning is bad. Just because women aren't built the way you'd like them to work, that's a reason to treat them badly? Guys like you make girls say "It's the nice ones you have to watch out for." You said it yourself, you were the sucker. You have no one else to blame but yourself as a result.

[WouldntBeMe]

After 14 pages, I basically have concluded what I feared: That women offer themselves to alphas and use their men as providers.

 

I don't trust anyone now. I think I'm meant to live alone. Or, turn it around and just use women, something I never would have done before my 'education'. I was a grade A sucker thinking that women would treat me well if I treated them well.

 

I wish my friends could look at it like this. Would save them ALOT of heartache.

 

I'm the only one who looks at relationships as trash/meaningless, and I've never been heartbroken. One guy treats ladies like queens, gets crushed. Another is aloof and gets crushed.

 

It's 2009 man, relationships are DONE. Get in, get yours, get out. Simple.

[heloladies21]

I wish my friends could look at it like this. Would save them ALOT of heartache.

 

I'm the only one who looks at relationships as trash/meaningless, and I've never been heartbroken. One guy treats ladies like queens, gets crushed. Another is aloof and gets crushed.

 

It's 2009 man, relationships are DONE. Get in, get yours, get out. Simple.

Yeah just cause you haven't figured out how to do it, means nobody else should try? Sure I've been heartbroken, but me and my gf have a great relationship where we go out on the weekends and find other girls for threesomes. I'll make that trade anyday. :splat:

[driftwood]

Your free to make this decision on your own and I will not judge you in either direction, but the reasoning is bad. Just because women aren't built the way you'd like them to work, that's a reason to treat them badly? Guys like you make girls say "It's the nice ones you have to watch out for." You said it yourself, you were the sucker. You have no one else to blame but yourself as a result.

 

Well you either pull out of the game, or try to have the advantage. If women like men that don't treat them like gold, why bother doing it? If women will sleep with alphas most times (odds not in your favour), why trust them?

 

Perhaps you could take another stab at explaining to me, why me reasoning is so bad.

[driftwood]

Yeah just cause you haven't figured out how to do it, means nobody else should try? Sure I've been heartbroken, but me and my gf have a great relationship where we go out on the weekends and find other girls for threesomes. I'll make that trade anyday.

 

Who says I've never had those same opportunities? In fact, I've had women throw themselves at me. I refused them because I was trying to treat my woman as special, and I cared for her so much.

 

You think you're happy, and for the time, you may be, but odds are your woman is using you and would cheat on you. Maybe not, but she's no different genetically than others just like her who do cheat, so what makes you think you're so tight with her that she wouldn't use you and betray you?

 

I still hold out hope that I might find a woman out there like that, but I'd have to test her, spy on her, and use at least 3-4 trusted friends to get a sense of who she is to even feel like 90% trust. Maybe finding a woman who felt the same as me, naive, then betrayed and now has her life on track. But, even that could change. She could be great for a while, then get sick of me, whatever.

[ShootMePlz]

Why did you put up with the lack of affection and sex for so long??? I think you two need on top of counseling is a sexual therapy that can teach you about pleasing each other etc!!! She won't want sex if she doesn't enjoy it!! And even if you divorce the problem will still be there for the next girlfriend/wife. Just a thought!!!!

[driftwood]

Why did you put up with the lack of affection and sex for so long??? I think you two need on top of counseling is a sexual therapy that can teach you about pleasing each other etc!!! She won't want sex if she doesn't enjoy it!! And even if you divorce the problem will still be there for the next girlfriend/wife. Just a thought!!!!

 

It had been so good. I loved her. A little goes a long way. There were some plausible reasons that I sort of accepted, but not all the way. I thought we'd get back on track sooner. Love can put up with a lot, don't you think?

[heloladies21]

Well you either pull out of the game, or try to have the advantage. If women like men that don't treat them like gold, why bother doing it? If women will sleep with alphas most times (odds not in your favour), why trust them?

 

Perhaps you could take another stab at explaining to me, why me reasoning is so bad.

I'm not criticizing you for pulling out of the game, I'm criticizing you for wanting to treat them badly. You don't have to treat them like gold, you don't have to trust them, but your perspective is like that of revenge and that is where the flaw is because you are punishing them for your own inability.

[Wayfara]

'can alpha males bang your girls no matter how solid you think things are'?

 

The relationship was so bad for a number of years

 

In your case, if she cheated it wasn't when you thought you were tight and solid, you already knew the relationship had been bad for years.

 

I'll see if I can get the timeline straight.

 

Your wife has had crushes on three cute guys you think were “alphas”, but always said she liked your type the most. Did she have these crushes before or after you two got together?

 

You've been together since high school and in the beginning she was really into you. Some girls threw themselves at you but you didn't cheat because you loved her so much, but you still felt you had settled a little because she had a lousy upbringing etc. You two then got married and had kids, and you spent your twenties working your butt off for your family.

 

My personality kind of changed. Being in the work world and dealing with crap all day reduced my tolerance for other people's nonsense. I've been called a know it all a few times, just for offering my suggestions. My wife hated me offering advice. She'd always tell me how I was offending people out.

 

She stopped kissing you for yars and she would only have very little sex with you, but there were some plausible reasons for it that you sort of accepted. What did she give as reasons? Did this happen before or after your personality change?

 

I think I treated her like a jerk

 

I had a cyber affair about a year before this incident

 

I even tried to cheat with a woman I KNOW wants me, she told me and she wouldn't go for it. Then in one case where it was totally available, I thought it over and couldn't do it. This was before I knew about my good alpha male buddy.

 

You think you treated her like a jerk. You admit you had a cyber affair that your wife knew about. You tried to cheat with one woman, but was turned down. Then you made plans to cheat with another woman, but fortunately you changed your mind before the deed.

 

Some time after that your wife was alone with your smart, manipulative “alpha” friend for three hours. Everybody who knows her would never believe she's the sort of woman who would cheat. But your manipulative friend said he had sex with her, but when you pressed him he took it back, and she denies it too. And now you're 90% sure she cheated. If your wife cheated on you, are you're sure she did it because he was “alpha”? She says really likes geeks, and this guy was known as the smartest guy at the job..., was he a geek maybe?

 

You say being alpha isn't about how your body is built like. You can stand up for yourself and you've had women throw themselves at you, wouldn't that classify you as “alpha” too?

 

It sounds to me that you always looked down at your wife a bit because she's shy etc, and when you got that job it got more obvious to her, and that could be the reason she didn't want sex as often with you anymore. Then you felt rejected and searched for validation in other women, although it never went as far as physical cheating (because of lack of opportunity or sudden remorse). And now you suspect she has gotten back to you with this manipulative ex-friend of yours that you perceive as “alpha”.

 

If women like men that don't treat them like gold, why bother doing it? If women will sleep with alphas most times (odds not in your favour), why trust them?

 

I don't doubt you were equally at fault for the emotional downfall of the marriage, she surely had her part to it. But you said earlier you think you treated her like jerk, then I don't think it was you treating her “like gold” that was the problem, I bet you treating her like a jerk had more to do with it. I really don't think your situation has to do with you being beta or alpha, more that it was an unhappy marriage where both parts kind of cheated.

[lostandhurt]

driftwood,

 

You are looking for a reason why she cheated. Answer: She is selfish.

Quit trying to blame others (Alpha males) for her actions.

remember this: Most so called alpha's are punks in disguise. They over compensate for their failings by using others. Once again selfishness.

 

Leave them to their own pitiful lives. There is always a bigger dog on the block somehwhere.

 

Lost

[driftwood]

Did she have these crushes before or after you two got together?

 

Both.

 

You've been together since high school and in the beginning she was really into you. Some girls threw themselves at you but you didn't cheat because you loved her so much, but you still felt you had settled a little because she had a lousy upbringing etc. You two then got married and had kids, and you spent your twenties working your butt off for your family.

 

I really don't think I settled. I felt that she was 'the one'.

 

She stopped kissing you for yars and she would only have very little sex with you, but there were some plausible reasons for it that you sort of accepted. What did she give as reasons? Did this happen before or after your personality change?

 

I am really not sure. I want blame myself and say yes, it was my fault, but I know she changed too.

 

You think you treated her like a jerk. You admit you had a cyber affair that your wife knew about. You tried to cheat with one woman, but was turned down. Then you made plans to cheat with another woman, but fortunately you changed your mind before the deed.

 

Some time after that your wife was alone with your smart, manipulative “alpha” friend for three hours. Everybody who knows her would never believe she's the sort of woman who would cheat. But your manipulative friend said he had sex with her, but when you pressed him he took it back, and she denies it too. And now you're 90% sure she cheated. If your wife cheated on you, are you're sure she did it because he was “alpha”? She says really likes geeks, and this guy was known as the smartest guy at the job..., was he a geek maybe?

 

Whatever the reason(s), he provided something I did not. I have wrestled with my issues and been open about my problems, she has always been the type to deny everything.

 

I guess the intent of the OP was trying to discover if women will cheat with men who offer what their husband cannot offer. Perhaps the alpha male thing is a sub question, but it still is of key importance. Husband is stoic, she cheats with a man who is more sensitive or nurturing. Husband is a nurterer, she cheats with a more 'manly man'. I guess in my case, it's husband was alpha, devolved into more beta frustration. She thought I was an * * * * * * * so she had free reign to cheat and get better sex. I guess that was my mindset in my darker days.

 

You say being alpha isn't about how your body is built like. You can stand up for yourself and you've had women throw themselves at you, wouldn't that classify you as “alpha” too?

 

Perhaps an alpha in the beginning then I turned into a beta it would appear.

 

It sounds to me that you always looked down at your wife a bit because she's shy etc, and when you got that job it got more obvious to her, and that could be the reason she didn't want sex as often with you anymore. Then you felt rejected and searched for validation in other women, although it never went as far as physical cheating (because of lack of opportunity or sudden remorse). And now you suspect she has gotten back to you with this manipulative ex-friend of yours that you perceive as “alpha”.

 

That is pretty insightful actually. I don't think I really looked 'down' on her, but aspects of her personality definitely disappointed me when she would not work on them or was not able to. Easier to understand now, but not so much in highschool. All I knew was, she was the one I loved and I could overlook a couple character flaws, as I thought she could for me.

 

I don't doubt you were equally at fault for the emotional downfall of the marriage, she surely had her part to it. But you said earlier you think you treated her like jerk, then I don't think it was you treating her “like gold” that was the problem, I bet you treating her like a jerk had more to do with it. I really don't think your situation has to do with you being beta or alpha, more that it was an unhappy marriage where both parts kind of cheated.

 

I did treat her well, I gave and gave, but after a while it was clear there wasn't tonnes coming back at me. I think she found my personality a little overwhelming.

 

The key is still about alpha vs beta though, because if your role changes from alpha (who attracted her) into beta (that she's bored with, sees as weak or inadequate) or another better alpha comes along, well...