ugly truth about women and 'alpha' males?

[Kantriakhor]

So your decision is, and it is purely your own, whether or not to try and become an alpha or live out your life as a beta.

Let it be made clear that any/all classifications can be successful at relationships.

[InBruges]

Every boy, to truly become a man, needs to experience some sort of masculine initiation. For many men, they were robbed of this experience by inadequately prepared fathers. Some fathers were absent fathers, some harsh and driven, some abusive, some weak and timid because they themselves never received initiation. But the good news is that it's never too late for that initiation. Even if your father couldn't take you through it, the company of other men can help take you through it OR you can actually be guided through it by your own passions and desires. In any case, it always requires some sort of danger and thus courage.

 

The alpha males you speak of have experienced a sort of pseudo-initiation. They were taught to be aggressive and driven, but a moral grounding and inner peace was never really achieved. On the outside, they appear to be these ferocious wolves you can't compete with, and they appear that way precisely because they've learned to project themselves that way. But inside, they are often far from. They have learned to wear a shell which is more than enough to fool most women for enough time to be seductive, but their inner lives will never have peace. Don't be envious of them.

 

Men like yourself obviously don't have such a false exterior and this is good. Even though you still lack a true initiation, you're in a better position because you haven't crafted such a hardened and impenetrable false self.

 

OK, here is the difficult part. To truly change your life, you have to have courage and be willing to take the large leaps that will ensue big change. And you can only listen to your own inner voice on this. I can't tell you what you should do, but I can tell you that you need to take some time and contemplate some ideas. Get away for a couple days, maybe go into the mountains, turn the phone off so that no one you know can get hold of you, and think about what your real passions in life are and what makes you come alive. Then come up with a plan of action to achieve that goal, and in that plan, put away every single person that is a negative voice in your life. Sometimes a person has to drop their spouse, all their friends, and just move clear accross country and start all over. Maybe take contract work out of the country. But do something scary, something adventurous, so that you can really feel yourself come alive.

 

And the most important thing... never look back. Once you make your choice for change, don't ever look back to the past. Don't look up those old friends, don't email your ex-wife back, don't go revisit the city you use to live in... just keep your eyes on the future and make all things new.

 

Hope everything works out for you.

[mrmaximum]

I know that you are trying to find a way of making sense of your pain and what happened to you- but do not catorgorize people, races, sexes ect like this.

 

No not ALL woman will go after the alpha male- i don't - i'm not very unattracted to the "alpha" male.

 

no, not ALL woman just have sex and go about our lives like it's "just sex".

 

Heal - take care of yourself- judge people on a case by cases basis.

 

I also have adhd and its very easy to want to put things into little compartments so we understand them- like goes with like- but when you segragate people based on a preconceived notion-you truly miss out on the beauty of each and every individual.

 

Agreed, I too have ADHD, pretty serious I may add and I do try to comparmentalize things so that I understand it, however OP, you are correct if beta males are meant to be doormats. I am very much a beta, I don't try to take over a situation, I don't speak over people and I don't try my best at being the lead dog or making sure that people think I am. While it is true that a good portion of women recognize an Alpha male very quickly upon meeting them, it is also true that people will treat us the way we allow them.

 

If you allow people to walk over you they will. I haven't read all the posts on this thread and if this has been said already forgive me, but you cannot let people get away with treating you less than you think you should be. If you do not stand up to 'bad' people, you are giving them the green light to mistreat you. May I suggest standing up for yourself a little? If you suspect cheating, get to the bottom of it and find out for yourself. If you find out that it indeed happened (as accusing someone of this when nothing has happened is a sure way of undermining your realtionship) then you may want to let your wife know that you will not tolerate such behavior in the future.

 

Let's say this is just a tip from one beta to another, yeah?

[diabolik]

Every boy, to truly become a man, needs to experience some sort of masculine initiation . . .

Sounds to me like he's suggesting you go naked into the woods and fight a bear with your bare hands and teeth. Good luck.

 

I agree with everything heloladies21 has written in this thread. Not sure counseling is going to do anything. Ultimately, she has to respect you, and I doubt counseling can make that happen.

[melrich]

I've been seriously considering leaving my wife for over a year now. It has hurt me terribly and I barely drag my butt into work each day. I have lost all motivation and am kind of in the doldrums. I do suffer from depression, but before, I always had this eagerness to press on.

 

Personally I think it is irresponsible to advise you that you should not get counselling. It can and does help people. It is no guarantee of course and you need to amke comiitments to it but I suspect from what you write that your self-esteem needs a shot in the arm and that is where counselling can be very effective.

 

I would encourage you to continue with it.

[diabolik]

Personally I think it is irresponsible to advise you that you should not get counselling. It can and does help people. It is no guarantee of course and you need to amke comiitments to it but I suspect from what you write that your self-esteem needs a shot in the arm and that is where counselling can be very effective.

 

I would encourage you to continue with it.

Fair enough. I agree. I only meant to suggest that couples counseling isn't likely to make a woman respect a man she has probably never respected.

[melrich]

I only meant to suggest that couples counseling isn't likely to make a woman respect a man she has probably never respected.

 

Maybe not. But this is not a highschool dating scenario, or even a 20something romance. We are talking about a man with a wife and children. In this circumstance and considering everything involved, any professional help must be strongly considered as an option.

[driftwood]

Driftwood, it seems to me you are getting to hung up on Alphas/Betas, tests ond non-tests.

 

It seems if you suspicions are correct that you wife may have had an affair with a friend of yours. People have affairs for all sorts of reasons. At the moment it is probabl;y not that important why or who with.

 

What is important is that you have a process to go forward with and a firm idea of the outcomes that are acceptable and not acceptable to you.

 

Don't make this more complex that it is by trying to self analyse it. Push ahead with counselling (if that is what yoy want) and as a precursor make sure you have mapped out your desired outcomes and fallbacks.

 

I feel I have to analyse things more as I was so clueless and foolish. I'm really not sure how your post helps me at all.

[driftwood]

Let it be made clear that any/all classifications can be successful at relationships.

 

My topic is not about sustaining relationships. It's about 'can alpha males bang your girls no matter how solid you think things are'?

[melrich]

I feel I have to analyse things more as I was so clueless and foolish.

 

That's fine if you are at that stage. Personally, I think you need to try and move forward and get some resolutions. Certain things have happened. That much seems obvious. Staring at your navel will do little toward getting you resolutions....particularly as you are only guessing at what is going on in your wife's head.

 

I think you should pursue counselling, or at the very least some sort of mediated discussion with your wife and see where things are really at.

[Blue Spiral]

There's been a lot of debate, but I haven't seen anyone answer your questions, so here goes.

 

I'd appreciate anyone's feedback but specifically, I"m hoping to hear from people with real examples regarding this: Do alpha males truly roam the tribe and boink who they want? Are betas doomed?

 

In order: yes, and probably.

 

We seem to be called on to become alpha males, and if we're unable or don't want to, we're basically screwed.

 

I personally don't think that it's wise to insist that everyone embody the extreme stereotypes of their gender.

[heloladies21]

I agree with everything heloladies21 has written in this thread. Not sure counseling is going to do anything. Ultimately, she has to respect you, and I doubt counseling can make that happen.

I'm not suggesting marriage counseling, I mean something to help with self-esteem/depression. That is the root cause for all the problems and I doubt someone telling the two of them to communicate more like a marriage counselor would do will do anything. They both already understand how each other feels, she just doesn't respect him. If I were counseling them I'd tell her to leave the room and come back in 6 months when we've built him up to where he needs to be lol.

 

As for how successful any counseling can be, that's a crapshoot. Some counselors are good, some are just spitting out what they read in some textbook or saw on Oprah. One way or another you have to build a belief that you deserve more and then act accordingly if you wanna succeed.

[heloladies21]

My topic is not about sustaining relationships. It's about 'can alpha males bang your girls no matter how solid you think things are'?

Well the two topics are related ie. if you don't have a solid relationship, anyone can bang your girl. Alphas are better at it, but who cares what class the the guy banging your girl, someone else is banging your girl Don't misplace the blame, your problem isn't alpha guys, it's your bad relationship skill/low self esteem. Like with me for example, I don't care how alpha another guy is, I will personally come back to this thread, find out who you are, and give you 1000 US dollars if another guy seduces and bangs my gf. And I can say this after a lifetime of failed relationships! The relationship skills have been hammered down.

[diabolik]

Like with me for example, I don't care how alpha another guy is, I will personally come back to this thread, find out who you are, and give you 1000 US dollars if another guy seduces and bangs my gf. And I can say this after a lifetime of failed relationships! The relationship skills have been hammered down.

Just saw on link removed that Gene Simmons, Bill Clinton and George Clooney are all saying that heloladies21 owes each of them $1,000.

[Kantriakhor]

Well the two topics are related ie. if you don't have a solid relationship, anyone can bang your girl. Alphas are better at it, but who cares what class the the guy banging your girl, someone else is banging your girl Don't misplace the blame, your problem isn't alpha guys, it's your bad relationship skill/low self esteem. Like with me for example, I don't care how alpha another guy is, I will personally come back to this thread, find out who you are, and give you 1000 US dollars if another guy seduces and bangs my gf. And I can say this after a lifetime of failed relationships! The relationship skills have been hammered down.

 

Aren't you and your significant other into ployamoury/polygamy? Another person having sex with your girlfriend is a pretty solid bet. Going on your posting history.

[heloladies21]

Just saw on link removed that Gene Simmons, Bill Clinton and George Clooney are all saying that heloladies21 owes each of them $1,000.

Well those guys are so slick they could turn a straight man gay so how about a little disclaimer: Superhero seducers not elligible!

[Kantriakhor]

Well the two topics are related ie. if you don't have a solid relationship, anyone can bang your girl. Alphas are better at it, but who cares what class the the guy banging your girl, someone else is banging your girl Don't misplace the blame, your problem isn't alpha guys, it's your bad relationship skill/low self esteem. Like with me for example, I don't care how alpha another guy is, I will personally come back to this thread, find out who you are, and give you 1000 US dollars if another guy seduces and bangs my gf. And I can say this after a lifetime of failed relationships! The relationship skills have been hammered down.

 

If the girl is cheating it's also the girl's fault and if the other guy is knowingly allowing a girl to cheat with him, then the guy's at blame too.

 

Plenty of blame here, no gun pointed to anyone's head.

[heloladies21]

Aren't you and your significant other into ployamoury/polygamy? Another person having sex with your girlfriend is a pretty solid bet. Going on your posting history.

Yes, but we sleep with only women and although she is completely complicit, it is my desire to do this. If I ever had a problem with it you can be sure it would stop.

[Kantriakhor]

Yes, but we sleep with only women and although she is completely complicit, it is my desire to do this. If I ever had a problem with it you can be sure it would stop.

 

Just finding the humour I'm finding here.

 

As for the OP, You do need to work on your self esteem with counseling, forget about the alpha/beta thing for a minute because both "classes" can, and do, maintain relationships perfectly well. What you need to work on is self esteem, confidence, and the ability to stand up for yourself, aspects anyone can achieve.

 

Also, if your wife cheated, that speaks highly of her own character flaws because despite how lacking the marriage may have been there was no gun to her head, she chose to cheat.

[The_411]

Forget about alpha beta desinations for just a second. The main issue is standing up for yourself and not taking bullcrap.

 

As someone who has a people pleaser type personality you need to take that and flip it so that you do things that please you. Don't do things to please people or try to wamr their affections because it doesn't work and it backfires.

 

Your ex-girlfriend cheated because she felt you were a wuss and she's low quality.

 

Unfortunately this is the state of the world these days. Too many people cheat because of a variety of social breakdowns that I won't get into here.

 

You need to say ok I'm not gonna let someone bully me wrong or manipulate me for the promise of possibler sex etc. IF you're not getting sex on a frequent basis (depends on your needs) then you need to leave the relationship. If she's not making you feel good then you need to end it. OF course it's a two way street, but women cheat aka branch swing because they get bored, lose respect for their partners, etc.

 

The sooner you accept that if you are more "manly" the better chances you'll be able to reduce the chances of a getting a low quality woman and b) less likely she'll cheat.

[Eire1]

Driftwood,

I think you'll be blown away by this study done in Prague. It more or less provides some scientific evidence of what you're witnessing:

 

Dominant men 'smell attractive'

Women subconsciously prefer the aroma of dominant men when they are at the most fertile stage of the menstrual cycle, research suggests.

BBC

 

Researchers in Prague asked 48 men to assess how dominant they felt.

 

The men then wore cotton pads in their armpits for 24 hours, which were subsequently presented to 65 women.

 

Those who were ovulating rated the "dominant" men as sexiest, but there was no similar pattern among women at other stages of their menstrual cycle.

 

The findings, published in Biology Letters, suggest women are evolved to seek out the most virile sexual partner when conception is likely.

 

But the rest of the time they probably prefer potential social partners.

 

Relationship factor

 

Each of the women taking part in the experiment rated the odour of 10 pads for their intensity, sexiness and masculinity.

 

The researchers found women who were ovulating were more likely to rate the odour of dominant men as sexy.

 

This was particularly the case among women who were in a relationship.

 

However, women at other stages of their menstrual cycle - single or not - did not pick out dominant men in the same way.

 

Researcher Dr Craig Roberts told the BBC News website: "There seems to be some sort of physiological mechanism that directs women to indicators of good genes.

 

"The offspring of such a coupling would therefore be likely to have better genes."

 

Previous research has shown that emotional state may influence perception of body odour quality.

 

However, the researchers admit that the exact mechanisms in play are not known.

 

Dr Nick Neave, of Northumbria University, said human scents, or pheromones, played a complex role in how people interacted with each other.

 

His work has shown that women were more likely to rate male pheromones as coming from a dominant or assertive individual.

 

link removed

[driftwood]

Maybe not. But this is not a highschool dating scenario, or even a 20something romance. We are talking about a man with a wife and children. In this circumstance and considering everything involved, any professional help must be strongly considered as an option.

 

we got together in high school. our counsellor says the relatinship has kept us 'a little immature' which I can certainly understand. I just didn't think it would be this way.

 

I never wanted to have to date a lot of people and have my heart broken. I guess I was an idiot to think my high school love would be IT.

[driftwood]

I'm not suggesting marriage counseling, I mean something to help with self-esteem/depression. That is the root cause for all the problems and I doubt someone telling the two of them to communicate more like a marriage counselor would do will do anything. They both already understand how each other feels, she just doesn't respect him. If I were counseling them I'd tell her to leave the room and come back in 6 months when we've built him up to where he needs to be lol.

 

As for how successful any counseling can be, that's a crapshoot. Some counselors are good, some are just spitting out what they read in some textbook or saw on Oprah. One way or another you have to build a belief that you deserve more and then act accordingly if you wanna succeed.

 

I had 1 on 1 counselling with this psychologist for 3 years before we took on my marriage in 2 on 1 counselling. He seems good (compared to others I've been to over the years) but I just don't see much hope.

 

If alphas can bang who they want, why would any man ever trust any woman ever?

[driftwood]

Well the two topics are related ie. if you don't have a solid relationship, anyone can bang your girl. Alphas are better at it, but who cares what class the the guy banging your girl, someone else is banging your girl Don't misplace the blame, your problem isn't alpha guys, it's your bad relationship skill/low self esteem. Like with me for example, I don't care how alpha another guy is, I will personally come back to this thread, find out who you are, and give you 1000 US dollars if another guy seduces and bangs my gf. And I can say this after a lifetime of failed relationships! The relationship skills have been hammered down.

 

Maybe you're delusional. I'm saying even if you think the relationship is tight, a woman is always open to being banged by another, stronger, more desirable, more powerful, WHATEVER, man. She is not loyal to you, she will not resist someone that she wants. She's with you because you meet her emotional needs or financial, or whatever. Even if you think she's your best friend, she'll betray you for her own pleasure.

 

My main question is: Is this true? A few have answered quite firmly, 'yes' that is the case. What makes you so sure your woman wouldn't? How can you trust a woman?

 

For me, with depression and low self esteem and coming out of the illusion that my wife and I were tight, I am just feeling like I never want another woman again because I could never trust her.

[driftwood]

Just saw on link removed that Gene Simmons, Bill Clinton and George Clooney are all saying that heloladies21 owes each of them $1,000.

 

hehe, that actually made me chuckle!

 

(and chuckle rhymes with cuckold... ugh)