mrmaximum

A whole slew of choices can be made rather than cheating so I agree that it's never a goo recourse. I also don't think the "I was sauced" excuse holds water. I've known people who where three sheets to the wind who STILL got themselves out of compromising positions when they presented themselves. It all depends on what you find important, right? If she was attacked and raped, that is a different story than simply getting drunk and one thing leading to another.

And to this day I still wonder why my father cheated on my mother and my ex cheated on me. They said their 'I love you's" so why do this? Those are the questions we are left with after the fact as we try to put the pieces back together. I'm very sorry that this was put upon you and that someone who you figured was your rock turned out to be such a disappointment. There are some things that we will never understand, and maybe, it's simply better that way. If you need somewhere to vent or an ear, we're here for you, just a click away, yeah?

That is the stage where I and my wife are at. If cheating occurs, this for us is an automatic dealbreaker and we both made that clear to each other right at the start of our relationship. I think it was Agent who was surprised that more people don't discuss infidelty and their rules in regards to it but for some it is a morbid topic and one that most probably figure is common sense anyway. Did I wish hateful things on my ex, for a while, yes. However, given enough time I simply let things go. I highly doubt it healthy to hang onto such anger for any serious length of time. Like CS stated earlier, I wasn't perfect, not by a long shot but I was trying to make things right toward the end. Cs and Jen, you've made some great points in terms of the attitude one has after the event, and yes, infidelity isn't necessarily the end. Some can and do make it past and I applaud the ones that do. This was precisely the reason why I took my ex back because she was sorry for what she did and she told me as soon as she possibly could. I felt that I could trust her again by her actions and they where saying quite a bit in her defense. The rest of the relationship didn't go so smoothly but that is a tale for another time. Yeah, every case must be dealt with differently, sometimes the BS is simply the biggest jerk (or jerkette) the world has every seen and the relationship should end anyway for all parties involved (including kids). Or maybe the BS is simply using the affair as leverage to abuse or bully the WS. Once again, this isn't fair either. All factors must be weighed before a choice is made. The factor for me is that I simply don't want to live the rest of my life looking over my shoulder and wondering and my wife feels the exact same way. That factor is the deciding one for me, however, this is the one for me and everyone is different, yeah?

Mr. Nichol was actually my ninth grade Health Teacher. He was there for co-op so he hadn't gotten his teaching diploma at the time and he was with us only for half the semester. It had quite the affect on me and I've never forgotten it.

Yup, I too wasn't blameless when my ex cheated on me a few years ago. Yes it takes two to tango and I will be the first to say that about myself as well. However, just like you stated CS, how are you supposed to fix something that one person essentially is denying? Not only is justiying their actions placing responsibility on somoene else, but is also is insinuating that what they did wasn't even wrong and acceptable because of the circumstances. If that is the case then how is the relationship ever supposed to heal from that? It essentially means that one must keep the other chaste and watch their P's and Q's to do so. I came accross someone like this a few years ago and I did feel for them. Thinking about how to keep their SO from stepping out again while being the sole breadwinner in the family and thinking about saving for the post secondary educations of both their kids. Not fun, not fun at all. JennyNifer, I'm sorry to hear that your SO has moved on. It somewhat bothersome when you hear about people giving their WS another chance while they are still in contract with the OW/OM or are showing no remorse for their choices and here you are understanding it and it may be over. I hope your fortunes change, you never know, yeah?

I give you HUGE props for this!!! Not many people who have done the act are willing to say those words!! At least you and your SO have some ground you can now work from, a BS who gets the; "I don't know why I did what I did!" has no idea how to stop a relapse as they have no idea why it occurred in the first place!!! It takes huge cojones to admit to your part in the problem, you are only the second person to admit to this that I have ever come accross and AI have indeed come accross quite a few. Kudos to you, you have come quite a ways just with this post!!!

Man or woman, they don't want to tell you. What she is doing is self preservation, plain and simple. If she told you why she did, she feels like you would leave. "I don't know" works for young kids, not adults, there is now way that there was no thoughts in her head whatsoever as the affair transpired. Your left asking why so you can try to rebuild but there may not be a relationship left to save if she discloses everything. Just another reason why people who want to have LTR shouldn't cheat. I feel for you ttran, it sucks being in that sitch, and I hope you get past it.

Well Dove, JennyNifer I'll start with Eire1's quote as it works well. The bottom line is this, you will have quite the amount of mending to do. If there where problems prior to you stepping out they too will have to be dealt with, but to repair the foundation of your relationships you are going to have to lose some privacy for a while. Your're going to have to open your life up, schedule, cell phone, email, passwords, the whole enchilada. Your SO's at this point are very fragile right now and have to know that you are trustworthy, this time your word means nothing and your actions everything. Just like Eire put it, you will have to plead and beg for them not to bounce. Whatever they ask you will have to do. If they want to know where you are, you need to tell them. If you are going to come home at a certain time, BE EARLY. You no longer have the luxury of being late and not having them lose their minds in the meantime. It may mean no more girls nights out (and this advice woud be the same for men aswell) for the time being and possibly for a long time. It may seem strenous and tedious at times having him look over your shoulder like you are an irresposible child, but this is the 'payment' so to speak when looking for free love. Call it an amusement tax if you will, the price is high, but no matter what you think you have to pay, your SO is paying a much higher price. This may also mean in the future that you may never be allowed to have any male friends. I don't know your story so I couldn't even infer what your SO's may even ask of you, but I can indeed tell you that some of your previous 'rights' have been temporarily revoked and some others will be permanently so. If you want to stay with them, you may have no choice but to agree. Remember, in your heart of hearts you may never cheat again, but your SO's are trying to prevent what I like to call the "Terminal Precedent". It simply means; "How do I take back my WS without them thinking that they got away with murder and doing it again." YOU know that you will never cheat again, but they will NEVER be 100% sure of that. No one can read minds, all we have are people's actions and they say quite a bit!! All the words in the world will never convince them otherwise, all you have is your commitment to whatever they ask for reconcilliation. One last thing, do not EVER complain about what he is putting your through unless he is asking you utterly ridiculous things. This is the only way for him to find a way to trust you once more as your honesty has been called into very serious judgemet. Any complaints will be viewed as selfish and not true commitment to reconcilliation. I hope you have learned a valuable lesson in this that gambling with your relationship in this manner is only a lose-lose situation. If you came clean with your SO's then I give you props. Others may disagree with me but there are quite a few people who will look at that as a way of seeking pennace for what has been done. To show that you are truly sorry and want you both to make ammends. This is the biggest reason why I took my ex back and it did mean a lot to me at the time. If they had to find out on their own, you may already be sunk. No one can keep an eye on their SO's 24/7. I do wish you good luck.

The stats can vary from where you get it. I've seen then as high as 70% men and 55% women and as low as 35% men and 20% women. I've heard the latter quoted on Oprah and then 'confirmed' if you will from a site I find somewhat reasonable. One more item of note, men tend to inflate their numbers where women tend to delate theirs so an accutate number is possibly much closer that what is represented here. I'm not saying that they are correct, but they do seem to be more reasonable than the former numbers which seem a little high. Lots of good posts here, very true that it can be dangerous to generalize, it isn't fair to anyone, not even yourself.

I too took back my cheating ex, it was at a time in our relationship where things where going pretty well. Then things slowly began to erode into a really harsh reality where I was the last in the pecking order behind the mouse in the wall. I don't have proof that she was cheating on me again, but I do have some clues here and there. I had no choice but to leave, as much as it hurt her three kids to see the back of my head that last time, it wasn't worth it for me to be treated like a throw rug!! I'm somewhat like raykay as my father cheated on my mother twice and that pretty much cemented my feelings on cheating, it hurts, it's unnecesary, and IT IS A CHOICE. The one thing that people have to realize is that the whole idea of marriages thriving after infidleity isn't realistic. Sure there are some that can make it, TechResQ is a great example, but as you can tell from all the posts here so far that this is actually the exception, and not the rule. This is why I respect all who stay and try to work it out, but I ALWAYS recomend leaving. Trust NEVER returns 100% after infidelity!!

Either that or with one's psyche. There arr still those that cheat when their spouse is being reasonable.

My conscience would kill me to no end, no thanks!! However, if I did I'd rather my wife (most likely soon to be ex) heard it from me than from someone else. I've said it a million times, if your SO hears if from somewhere else, they will find it hard to accept your answer of "I didn't tell you to protect you!"

I agree with this 100%, that's dodging a major bullet, and shows that you really feel for her and your marriage. That you shouldn't have to intimidate the one you love in order for them to met your needs. However, I agree with Jaded, times are desperate and something needs to be done!! I do remember a post about a man in a similar sitch on another forum. He basically put his foot down and told his wife (not screamed but just sat her down and told her) that they weren't meeting each other's needs and something had to be done. They listed what the other wanted and went to work, of course she slipped right back into complacency and he sat her down again, while still meeting her needs. He repeated himself and then of course she slipped again. Then he sat her down one last time and told her that he found this current situation un accepatable and that he couldn't stay in a marriage like this. According to him, that woke her up and things had changed. Rob, you wife more than likely loves you but she's gotten into a rut, which most marriages are going to find themselves in at one time or another, the crime is that she isn't listenning to your repeated warnings and cries for help. She's not doing this out of spite or hatred, she just got comfortable more than likely. Once again, Jaded's right, she needs a drastic wake up call before things get ugly. Good job on talking to your mates about the sitch, they do know you and your wife better than we do and may provide insight on the best course of action. Please don't give up and keep us posted on how things transpire. Good Luck and God Bless

Things may not be black and white and you're right that it's easier said than done, but something must happen before a drastic situation occurs, one where there may be no going back!! Your wife is neglecting your needs, you love her, that is admirable, what she has to understand is what she is doing to you and in turn your marriage. Even if you can withstand the temptation (and there are those that can for some 'inhuman' lengths of time) resentment will build between you and your wife and this may cause the end of your relationship anyway. As it stands you are willing to 'ignore' the problem in order to accept your wife the way she is. You sound very intelligent so I figure I don't need to tell you that this a ticking time bomb. You have told her and she refuses to do anything about it. If you want to improve the chances of the longevity of your marriage, you need to get your wife's attention. I have said this countless times, but I have seen this work. Move into a buddies house to tell your wife that you aren't kidding. She NEEDS to understand that this is unacceptable and that you will no longer tolerate this from her. If you do nothing, she will then be like other BS's who didn't think that anything was wrong, something is wrong and she needs to know that!! I implore you not to just sit idly by and do nothing proactive to solve this problem which needs a solution!! You aren't being heard because she thinks that you will complain, then go silent and this is just a pattern that she doesn't need to pay attention to. Sometimes you have to scream just to be heard!! You may want to start your own thread to invite other people's opinions on this topic, there may be a chance that things can get mended, but you have to go after it. It's not black and white, nevertheless things must be done. Good Luck and God Bless

I've never heard that before, but when you consider it, it's obvious its very true!! Thank you for posting this, every married person should know this bit of info, NEVER take your SO for granted, and when it happens (which it will) LISTEN when they talk to you!!! I'm putting this in my little book of memorable posts!!

Walk don't run, this dude will contnue to mistreat you if you let him. They're a better people out there, stop wasting your time with this one!!

It's a series of choices that happen that lead to a result, which one knows about beforehand. People see the signs when in a social environment, heck, you saw them when you met your SO. thereforeeee, when you are in a committed relationship and you see these same signs from someone else? Well, you know better. Sure you shouldn't have given this guy/girl your phone number, or danced with them on the dancefloor. But from getting to know someone to getting in the sack with them are a series of steps that have to be requested from one party and then accepted by the other. A mistake, no, sorry. So you guys had some issues, okay, i can see that. But ALL relationships have issues, ALL OF THEM!! Here's the sitch, life can be tough on relationships, plain and simple and we all know that. But here you are looking at your car that you love so much that blew a head gasket and the mechanic is telling you that it can be fixed over time with a lot of effort but it may not be the same. Now you have to wonder if this car that you have invested so much time in is worth the long trek accross the wilderness. Only you know for sure, but the fact that you knew for 2 years and expected her to come clean while she didn't was very damning. I see where you are coming from with that but I believe that it did more harm than good. As for her, well, I'll be honest, you will NEVER feel like you did again. Ever, things may get better, heck you guys may even move past this, and I really hope you do. But like KSKM said, trust will never be back to 100% and with the fact that you knew she was lying to you face and was clearly covering her own @ss, well, what do you say. Gang, a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Life has it's ups and downs and there are days where I and my family are tested with the things life throws at us, at times it can feel like your climbing a mountain!! If you where to go and climb Everest, are you going to bring a harness with you that ripped horribly in the past and are not 100% confident in it's ablilities to hold you up?

2600degress, I really wonder what your angle is. I guess because I am still somewhat new to this whole forum thing that I'm not sure what a true flame is. I didn't think I was actually, I didn't mean it as a dig, if that is how you or Girly took it, then I do aplogize. I was merely responding to another poster who had mentioned that if the timing was right EVERYONE would do it. As I said, I could, I don't, end of story. On the other hand I have been looking on other parts of this forum and I really am not sure where you are coming from. Your story is tragic, to be sure, you didn't deserve to be treated that way, I'll be the first to admit that. Not only that, I will concede that we can read a story and think what we like but living it is a completely different matter. However, you chose your course of action and you must know by now how people feel about that. There where other choices that you could have taken and you did what you thought was best for you. Okay, so I'll give you that, however, you go on and on about how jilted spouses rage on about their WS or cheating xbf or xgf and you have to realize that what they went through wasn't pleasant whatsoever. Sometimes some of these people had no clue what was going on and there was nothing they could do to stop it (my fiancee was with a serial cheater for example). To expect anyting else is like being a known pedophile and going to a PTA meeting and then be surprised that they ask you to leave. As I said before, I haven't been in your shoes and I won't judge you on that, but you haven't been in some of the others here either and we can tell you that being on the other side really sucks!! You bought the Ferrari man, why are you complaining about the mileage now? It's one or the other, it isn't both.

My dad's excuse was "your mother can be mean." The heck is that?? I know my mom is no walk in the park sometimes but still, give me a break? His advice to me one day (and I'm not making this up!!) "Don't get caught, it hurts the ones you love!" Whatever. Lots of good points on this thread. Yes we all want the flashy people when we are younger, but think about it, what kind of people do others settle down with? The qualities that make that 'bad' guy or girl a cool bf or gf also are the same ones that usually make very bad life partners, yeah? As for cheating, it's proven there are people that go through hell and back with their spouses and STILL don't cheat. So as to never say never, I don't know your situation and this isn't a dig, but the two posters who have said this have both been cheaters. I work in a club, I could get away with it, there are women (hot young women) who make passes at me all the time. I could get away with it, SCOTT FREE, the wife would have NO idea whatsoever. I'm just not willing make a compromise in that fashion.

Jdtx, looks like you and your SO have a lot of talking to do. From the sounds of it you have very good lines of communication and that is amazing, as I got older it was then that I realized how important communication is. One more thing that I will say is that even though she may have kids from someone else and even someone that didn't deserve it, she sounds like a good woman and good people are very hard to find in this day and age. Like I said before you have to find your own place or your own identity as a father figure in the lives of those children and that can and will take some time and effort. The onlt thing that seems to stand out is your belief that you can win the unwinnable. If bio-dad was gone, you could do it, he won't leave and that is the truth that you must face. I fear that you are running a race that you have no hope (and I mean NO HOPE) of winning. I realize that it helps you in the short term to deal but in the long term it will drag you down and possibly burn you out, maybe even affect your relationships with your girl and her kids. Unfortunately this is the burden step parents must bear, and at times it can be an even more thankless job than being a biological parent, all the responsibilities with none of the credit. It was just this past year that the kids gave me some recognition on father's day, for the previous two years I got a thanks for coming out. I hope you realize just how strong you are and how lucky those kids are that they have a real man in their lives. It will take time but your heart is in the right place and things will improve. Good Luck and God Bless

What is her motivation for not taking your child and leaving them at a friends house for a while as you desperately need to sort out a few things? Why does she refuse to bend on this? I really think that her attitude is a very large red flag! She just wants to brush her infidelity under the table and you need to fix whatever you have done wrong. This is not a good situation, not in anyway shape or form!! She needs to realize that you being alone for a while is actualy better for your son, he needs two parents that love him and love each other and can show him a proper example of what a marriage is supposed to be about. hunter, you need to go to counseling, even if it is by yourself, you may learn a few things that may help turn her around, but then at the very least, you may end up leaving in the end ( it sounds to me like this indeed what is going to happen). The one constant train of thought that I can surmise from your end of the story about your spouse is that she wants things her way or not at all. Considering her history and the asumption that you want to change to save your marriage, that is a position that she can ill afford.

So glad to hear that, that's awesome that things are going better, I pray things improve for Jdtx too. Godspeed!!

This is it right here. Okay, Hunter, because you said it I won't beat you over the head with it but I will call you on it. You said yourself that you could have treated your wife better, please take this time to learn from your mistakes and ensure they are rectified, yeah? This is no doubt painful but you can learn from this in what not to do. I completely agree with Heloladies, this is what I call a Terminal Precedent. This could lead to a very negative outcome in the future, essetially your relationship becomes a ticking time bomb, when will she go off next because she has this history (got away with it 3TIMES!!). Here is the deal; yeah maybe you could improve in the hubby department, okay, you said it I'll agree with you so buck up, but she cheated, not once but twice!! Then you have the whole situation of her not acceepting responsibility of the whole thing!! YOU have to change first?! I'd be reluctant to take a woman back too if I heard that sort of thing!! Hunter, this isn't cool and this is the whole reason why you are here, you know you need to change, you know that you love her, but she has shown no reason why you should take her back, no reason that this whole thing will stop. If this was her first time I'd say give her the benefit of the doubt, BUT this is her second AND she's not showing any remorse, you may want to consider leaving. Sorry to be so blunt but cheating twice isn't cool for you or for your daughter. I'll ask you this Hunter, this will be chance number 3 for her, what has she done to deserve it?

Thank you for the kind words Flower, it helps to have a sweet woman who treats you well and appreciates what you do for them and their kids. It's obvious that you are this way and your child and hubby are lucky to have you, dare I say it!! Okay, this may be a book but I think you guys need to hear this. In fact Flower, get your hubby and have him read this too. Jdtx, Flower’s hubby, the biggest challenge that you are going to have to face is the fact that you are competing with the fathers of these kids. Guys, it’s a fight that you will never win, it’s like getting into a tug of war with an aircraft carrier, I don’t care how strong you are or tough you are, you is gonna lose!! Stop trying to be THE father and be you! It’s all that you can do. Trust me when I say that kids, no matter how young, will know who to go to when they need someone, they know who they can count on for real!!! Flower, Jdtx, you guys said yourselves that the exes are the ‘fun and or crap’ fathers, don’t make the mistake that the kids don’t know this either, they know that better than you, you can see it in their behavior. Yes kids say they would love to have a life with no rules, they say that but they never really mean it. If you discipline, it shows that you care, yeah? Jdtx, your ‘opponent’ sounds just like my fiancée’s ex and my ex-girlfriend’s ex. Not the best people to be sure (actually the fiancée’s ex is serving a jail sentence right now) but he is still 'daddy' and they still jump for joy when he calls (collect don’t you know). It was my soon to be wife who told me this; They know who’s got their back, they know that when I say I’m going to do something that I will do it, whereas their dad cannot be trusted farther than I can throw the pentagon!! Guys, from the sounds of it this will take time, but stop fighting a battle that you are doomed to fail. Look at the relationship that you can have, not the one that you would prefer to have if you had been in so in so’s place instead of the place you are now. Remember the old prayer; God give me the Strength to change the things that I can The Serenity to accept the things that I cannot And the Wisdom to know the difference. You can change the relationship that you have with your little ones, making it one where they feel loved and accepted but you can’t be their father. Be you, be an example and they will love you now, and they will absolutely be head over heels for you later!! You are their step fathers, that's not a bad thing you know!! Jdtx, you sound like a very special person, if this sort of thing is bothering you then it’s obvious that your heart is in the right place. Do yourself a favor and just focus on the things that you have power over, it will cause less stress in the long run too, not only that, your soon to be born child (congratulations by the way, that’s awesome!!) will benefit from it aswell. Flower, your hubby sounds like a good man for this to be bothering him, he just has to realize that it shouldn’t. Listen gang, I’ve been there and done that, my xgf had an ex that was the father of two of her kids and he never paid support and almost never dropped by to see them. It kind of bothered me at first when he came over and they dropped whatever they where doing and jumped all over him and such, and then I realized that there was nothing that I could do about it. Jdtx is right in saying that if he was gonzo, life would be a lot better, but he isn’t so I had to deal. As time went on, I realized that they cared for me in their own way and not only that. I WAS THE MAN IN THEIR LIFE. I hope you guys realize what that means. YOU’RE THERE, YOU’RE THE STARTER, AND YOU’RE THE FIRST STRING!! The ‘father’ is nothing but a backup, a reprieve, see what I mean? I’m not saying that in a negative way, I just mean that you are the primary, that’s what I mean by stop fighting with him; the truth is that you don’t need too!! YOU’RE ALREADY NUMBER ONE. They wake up to you, what more can you ask for? There can be only one ‘Daddy’ to be sure, but there is only one you and I hope you guys realize this!! I mean when I say that kids know who has their back and who doesn’t, watch them, especially you Jdtx, watch the kids when they get off the phone with their Dad. If he’s like my fiancée’s ex he would promise the moon and the stars and after a while when they caught on that it was just lies, it would go through one ear and out the other, you can see it on their faces. Guys, that is all I wanted to say, you are already number one, that is all you can ask for. I hope I got through to you guys, your kids need you and it doesn't help anyone for you to be hurting like this. I hope that you stop torturing yourselves with this war that you can't win, because no matter what you do, you can't win, ever. Good Luck and God Bless

I know that you have talked to him and maybe he just needs to sort out some things on his own, however for this to come out of nowhere like this isn't really kosher. He needs to see that your son wants to be around him and he isn't realizing this. I know that it can be hard dealing with children that aren't yours (my ex girlfriend has three kids and my fiancee has two) so I speak from experience when I tell you that it can be tough sometimes on him. He will care for your son as best as he can (I would suggest that you get him at a time when your son is at your ex's and then take him to a place where he can relax and then tell him what he is missing, your son wanting to be with him.) What he has to stop doing is competing with his father(in essense trying to BE his father or the #1 father), that is a fight he can never win, he needs to be a father-figure, the step dad, the one that comes to his sports games, watches his school plays and gives him a high five when he gets good grades. Believe me I know from experience who kids can trust and who has their back. Don't force the issue, some mothers think that if they do this that they are actually helping the situation, this isn't fair to your son or your fiancee. As for him loving your son like his own, this is somewhat presumptious to expect. He and your son will have a loving relationship that will grow in time of it's own accord. Sort out this situation and have him find his feelings but you are right to sort this out before you get married, that will only compound the issue. Good Luck and God Bless