ugly truth about women and 'alpha' males?

[driftwood]

Yes, but we sleep with only women and although she is completely complicit, it is my desire to do this. If I ever had a problem with it you can be sure it would stop.

 

Do you believe her? Do you honestly think she thinks it's fair for you to get to do other girls (even with her) but she can't have other cawk?

[Eire1]

My main question is: Is this true? A few have answered quite firmly, 'yes' that is the case. What makes you so sure your woman wouldn't? How can you trust a woman?

 

For me, with depression and low self esteem and coming out of the illusion that my wife and I were tight, I am just feeling like I never want another woman again because I could never trust her.

 

Women don't have it any easier with men. Men are programmed to screw anything with a heartbeat. They don't even have to have a conversation or know a name. Sex can be that impersonal with men.

 

Each sex is programmed to put their own genetic interests (sexual strategy) ahead of all others.

 

- Men can ensure their genes survive another generation by going for quantity -- the more women he can impregnate the better chances some of those offspring will survive.

- Women can only bear a single child every nine months. This limits her ability to produce the number of offspring as a male. So her sexual strategy is to focus on quality -- the quality of the male will best ensure survival of her offspring. A caring, nurturing, sensitive male will be the best to bring up a child. The child will be best equipped to survive if it has the genes of an aggressive, strong, dominating father.

 

And these pre-programmed sexual strategies, are largely at conflict with our conscience. We get sexual urges that tempt us to follow our genetic programmings and our conscience says 'no, that's not right.'

 

This is a struggle that both sexes endure daily, not just women.

 

The one thing that a better understanding of sexual selection has done for me is to take it all a bit less personal.

[StrawberryYogurt]

Maybe you're delusional. I'm saying even if you think the relationship is tight, a woman is always open to being banged by another, stronger, more desirable, more powerful, WHATEVER, man. She is not loyal to you, she will not resist someone that she wants. She's with you because you meet her emotional needs or financial, or whatever. Even if you think she's your best friend, she'll betray you for her own pleasure.

 

This is no different than what women have to fear as well as the numbers indicate men and women cheat in marriages fairly equally. If you cannot trust someone 100%, well at least 99.9%, best not to marry that person.

[Kantriakhor]

Heh, sorry driftwood but you've gone from a lack of confidence to just plain cynical. Believe it or not but some people are actually loyal and will work on a relationship before having to end things, these same people also won't cheat.

 

You don't seem actually open to advice here, you're just pandering you're opinion to us.

[RobD70]

Heh, sorry driftwood but you've gone from a lack of confidence to just plain cynical. Believe it or not but some people are actually loyal and will work on a relationship before having to end things, these same people also won't cheat.

 

You don't seem actually open to advice here, you're just pandering you're opinion to us.

 

I see that too.

 

Driftwood, you are too focus on things like looks because you are projecting a man’s perception on a woman. Looks are not as high a priority for women as they are for men, they are attracted to confidence more than anything and your negative attitude and apparent self esteem problems are making you less attractive. Women can only love men they respect and it’s hard to respect with issues like that.

 

My wife last year left me for a man who was older than her father and was not attractive at all but he did appear confident and have an exciting lifestyle which women went for. It turned out to be all lies but he was able to fake confidence well enough to get what he wanted. BTW he didn’t have any muscles to speak of and I am far better looking than he was. If you don’t change your outlook, you are doomed to having failed relationships.

 

Be happy with yourself and just happy in general and people will be attracted to you. No one leaves a happy person.

 

ETA: My wife came back in the end because I made some hard changes for myself that doomed my past relationships. I was like you once but I realized my perception was wrong and decided to accept the reality and use it to my advantage instead of whine about how unfair women are to men.

[diabolik]

Do you think your wife may have cheated more than once?

[veneratio]

I did not say he is an alpha because of his build, he just is an alpha. It's all part and parcel.

 

My wife was very unhappy with me and I think she did and does want a stronger MAN. She says no, but like I said, I see this as women using betas for their nurturing and an alpha for sex.

 

No, you didn't say that directly, but you associate the two.

 

I think it has little to do with alpha/beta anything and more to do with a lack of respect on both sides. You've gotta respect yourself before she ever will, and since she doesn't, naturally her eyes wander over to the "bigger, alpha" guy. Because it's eye candy, because it's natural. But just cause it is natural for a woman's eyes to wander over to a certain type of guy, doesn't mean she can't be trusted.

 

I see women wanting both. Not just a nurturing guy for one aspect of a relationship, then a more dominant one for another. Two in one.

 

And since you wanted real examples to counter what you said. I have a beautiful friend. A myriad of guys ranging from "beta" to "alpha" and everything in between hit on her each time we go out. Do any of those guys gain access to her? No. Because she's loyal to her guy and has a respect for him. He isn't what most would consider "alpha" either. Each woman is different, though. Some want the typical "alpha" popular guy who was QB in high school and the leader of his group, who has the spotlight wherever he goes. Some don't.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

Drift- (and anyone else interested) should read this article ... its from the ENA front page

 

 

i think this article gives you something to think about.

 

it specifically says (and i quote from the article):

 

"As to female participants, they demonstrated more variation, compared to their male counterparts. Most of women said that they find thin and muscular men the most attractive, but while one picture would be rated attractive by one woman, another woman would find it as not attractive. So, in general it was impossible to say in advance who the women would go for. "

[DunwichChild]

Drift- (and anyone else interested) should read this article ... its from the ENA front page

 

 

i think this article gives you something to think about.

 

it specifically says (and i quote from the article):

 

"As to female participants, they demonstrated more variation, compared to their male counterparts. Most of women said that they find thin and muscular men the most attractive, but while one picture would be rated attractive by one woman, another woman would find it as not attractive. So, in general it was impossible to say in advance who the women would go for. "

 

 

[driftwood]

Heh, sorry driftwood but you've gone from a lack of confidence to just plain cynical. Believe it or not but some people are actually loyal and will work on a relationship before having to end things, these same people also won't cheat.

 

You don't seem actually open to advice here, you're just pandering you're opinion to us.

 

I asked a question and some other members said yes, alphas can bang your woman at will. It seems to make sense with what I've read elsewhere that lead me to this point. I don't *want* to believe that, but it appears to be reality. So, realistically, how could I as a beta ever trust a woman? I would always think she's just using me for nurturing.

 

I do believe some people are loyal, perhaps for other reasons. I think they are loyal because they are either old fashioned, inhibited or ignorant that they could do it or get away with it, or they just never had the chance. I believe many have the moral fortitude not to do it, and others don't. But overall if women cannot control their attraction to a stronger more dominant male, and he comes near and starts it, she won't be able to resist as he is a sexual threat. At this point, what does she care about her whiny beta at home? I'm not saying men don't cheat and that women don't have it bad. I'm trying to learn.

[Kantriakhor]

No offense but your wife doesn't disrespect you because you're a beta. She likely disrespects you because that attitude of yours where people "are either old fashioned, inhibited, or ignorant" or they're out to deceive/use you.

 

This is becoming less and less a discussion on beta/alpha and more about you seeking validation from outside sources that your assumptions are pad-locked truths. You eat up things that support it and rationalize people who speak against it as being "either old fashioned, inhibited, or ignorant" or in some other way as backward.

 

This leads me to believe that you'd rather think you're right that the world is this terrible place just so you can be right and not have to do anything (you're claiming being a beta is causing this meaning you're releasing responsibility for your actions) instead of actually trying something and dealing with your esteem issues.

 

I'm almost wiling to say your wife hasn't cheated at all, you're just content with allowing paranoia and being a martyr for "betas" draw you to that conclusion.

 

I don't mean this to come off as disrespectful but enough is enough, being a beta isn't the problem, the pity-party you're throwing, and the conclusions you're making about your wife based on scant evidence is.

[heloladies21]

I'm trying to learn.

Well that statement seems counter to everything you've written so far. You have come to your conclusion based on your observations so there is really no purpose to the thread. It would be like someone telling me that they think the sky is red. If they interpret the color they see when they look at the sky as being red, then that is their right to think that way, and unless I'm getting paid to convince them otherwise, there's really no point in arguing against it.

 

I'll gladly help someone who says "I'll try what you suggest", but as for someone who calls me deluded just because my conclusion doesn't agree with theirs and then precedes to criticize based on such limited factual information is not open to learning. They're just interested in refuting other people's claims and therefore strengthening their own beliefs. So best wishes to you in this life.

[diabolik]

This is becoming less and less a discussion on beta/alpha and more about you seeking validation from outside sources that your assumptions are pad-locked truths. You eat up things that support it and rationalize people who speak against it as being "either old fashioned, inhibited, or ignorant" or in some other way as backward.

I don't often see things the same way as kantriakhor, but I'm inclined to agree with him on the above.

 

OK, so let's say you hang on to the notions that you're beta, there is no changing it, and you are destined to have women cheat on you. Where does that leave you? Stay with your wife while she runs around with other men? Maybe even raise some other man's children? Divorce her and stay single forever? Not even date b/c that's just going to end in infidelity?

 

As an alpha (and not a big, muscular one at that), I'm glad to hear it. Now I don't even have to woo your woman away from her man, as she'll be single. I wish all you betas would just run off into the woods and leave all the women to the alphas, but as it turns out, lots of them take a stand and find women who love and respect them, and surprisingly enough, those women don't seem very susceptible to the alpha ways.

 

Your call.

[Circe]

I have only read your first post so I apologise if I'm missing something important.

 

I think you asked for specific examples?

 

I'm not sure what my husband is, alpha or beta? To describe him .. he's extremely gentle with me, kind, loyal, loving, affectionate.. great guy. He's also super shy with strangers. With good friends, he can be loud and very funny. He's super intelligent and makes great speeches. We are each other's first.. in terms of sex.

 

What does that make him? I guess my story is only relevant if he's a beta.

 

Anyway - I know a very clear alpha male type who pursued me really heavily and did not succeed. I know he just wanted to sleep with me. He was very persistent. At first I tried to draw the line without being rude (for career reasons) and when that didn't work I just completely shut off all contact or access to me and ignored him.

 

Reason? Just one, really - I'd never hurt (or risk hurting) or betray the man I love.

 

So obviously.. I disagree. If your wife truly cheated on you - you have to hold her responsible. Just her. Not all alpha men. Not all woman. It's on her and noone else.

 

I hope though that this isnt just your low self esteem making you think she cheated on you and then making you decide there's no such thing as a good relationship for a man such as you - thus relieving yourself of the effort of trying to find one. And the emotional investment it would involve.

[Eire1]

Great post. The way I see it, for whatever it's worth, is that we are given sexual urges to do things that work in our genetic reproductive interests. Like that study I showed, women may find alpha males smell most sexually stimulating when they're ovulating.

 

That is just an urge that a strong willed person can overcome. I've never cheated on anyone in my life, and yet I get aroused by the women around me just like every other guy. Just because your sexual urges try to coax you to be unfaithful, doesn't mean we don't have the will power to overcome them.

 

To the OP: Not all women will cheat on you. Most will be tempted at one time or another, as you'll experience similar temptations yourself, but we all have the capacity to remain faithful. It takes finding partners who are highly principled.

[Kantriakhor]

Women with any sense of moral-fiber don't cheat.

[COtuner]

So who do alpha females date? many successful females find it difficult to date as guys are intimidated by them (especialy if they are the main bread winner or in a career of high power)

 

Unfortunately I have primarily been with extremely needy, psychologically damaged omega males At the moment I am starting to date a guy with a lot of alpha male traits who is on a similar career path to me, but further along, who is into some high adrenaline type activities and is very much in charge of his life. Couldn't be more perfect for me - just praying I don't screw this up

[Kantriakhor]

I'll take my quality relationship over that forum any day, heh. Entertaining read nevertheless, thanks for the chuckles.

[famousde]

Everybody is different and obviously a generalization cannot be made accross all people: all women in this case. That being said, there is no doubt some truth behind the OP's "alpha male theory." I don't exactly agree with the OP's characterization of an Alpha male - I don't think the Alpha male is inherantly manipulative or dishonest - anymore so than any person. Anyway, there have been a number of friend's girlfriends and friends wives that have either come on to me or made it clear that they were available to me if I wanted them. I don't manipulate my friends and I don't get on their wives. I also don't ever tell the guys because I don't want to hurt them. So, I think it is likely that women are more available and attracted to the alpha man than they reveal to their husbands nor admit to themselves. The attractive women out there and the Alpha males are the only ones aware of the full evidence - and there is a lot of it.

[Circe]

The attractive women out there and the Alpha males are the only ones aware of the full evidence - and there is a lot of it.

 

How is that? I would have thought the only "evidence" anyone is aware of is their own personal experience. Whether they be "Alpha male", "attractive woman" or "beta male".

 

Even anecdotal evidence from friends is unreliable. Ive found that way too many men are braggers to the point of being shameful liars when it comes to the topic of female "conquests".

[InBruges]

The devil is the Lord of Illusions. Women cheat because of the illusions, the alpha males conquer because of the illusions, and the emasculated man sulks because of the illusions. Things aren't what they seem and the darker places aren't as complicated or mysterious as the imagination would suggest. If you're looking for truth in those places, you won't find it... you won't find your answers. The best you can do is do what you love, learn instead of regret, and have the courage to leave someone unfaithful and never look back.

[Miss Firecracker]

You don't even know your wife slept with the alpha.

[famousde]

How is that? I would have thought the only "evidence" anyone is aware of is their own personal experience. Whether they be "Alpha male", "attractive woman" or "beta male".

 

Even anecdotal evidence from friends is unreliable. Ive found that way too many men are braggers to the point of being shameful liars when it comes to the topic of female "conquests".

 

As I explained in my post, I think that the beta husband often knows nothing about it. And, I am aware of the evidence from my own personal experience, and necessarily, the women in question are as well. It isn't about bragging. It is the truth. You are welcome to ignore the reality if you wish.

[Kantriakhor]

As I explained in my post, I think that the beta husband often knows nothing about it. And, I am aware of the evidence from my own personal experience, and necessarily, the women in question are as well. It isn't about bragging. It is the truth. You are welcome to ignore the reality if you wish.

 

Just as you are free to apply your own experience as wholesale stereotyping. To demand your own opinion to be truth. If that makes you happy then more power to you

 

In my experience, the girls/guys in my area tend to go for the guys/girls that compliments them beta, alpha, or some other greek letter. Yet I know that that is not always the case.

 

I have traits both of a beta and an alpha, does that make me gamma? Omega?

 

Categorizing people enmasse and making general rules was a common practice in the early to mid 20th century, giving rise to the Eugenics movement in the early 1900's where the government and scientists labeled groups of people based on behaviour and their outcome, then the Great Depression occurred and everyone, more or less, was dropped into the same boat hastening the demise of the eugenics movement in the US (that and hitler ran with the idea in his atrocities).

 

You're free to live in a word of betas and alphas, each with their roles and consequences just as I am free to live in my world where individuals are accountable for their stance at work, in friendships, and in relationships. If a woman wants a dominant man but is with a submissive one then the fact she wants a dominant one is of no surprise and only means that that particular woman was unhappy in her current relationship and lacked both the maturity and moral fiber to end things without communicating as well as before pursing a new man. This type of woman, in my opinion, is trash and if roles revered the man would be trash as well.

[COtuner]

If a woman wants a dominant man but is with a submissive one then the fact she wants a dominant one is of no surprise and only means that that particular woman was unhappy in her current relationship and lacked both the maturity and moral fiber to end things without communicating as well as before pursing a new man.

 

Agreed. Having just been in a situation where I was very unhappy with the man I was with, as he had pretended to be someone he was not in order to "win" me over (like me instead of the opposite of me), I find that it's very hard to settle for something different than what you want if it's a deep compatibility issue. Certain personality traits seem to be more desirable for a match to different people, and those fundamentals become dealbreakers over time.

 

I know I would feel dissatisfied with my ex and even disappointed or dismayed at his behavior. I didn't like being in a relationship where I was the more aggressive and dominant one, not afraid of confrontations or fighting for what I wanted or believed in. Being with someone who could not stand up for himself and just * * * * * ed and whined at home about everything after the fact was a major issue for me. (just one example). I need to be with a more dominant and aggressive personality. Is that alpha? Maybe.