do all men who aren't with models settle?

[DaBladeRoden]

What ABD is trying to say is that an average woman with a smile > a hot women with a scowl.

[ProtestTheHero]

Have you never spoken to an unattractive person in your lifetime?

 

I am that person.

 

Personally, a hot girl is a hot girl whether she's scowling, picking her nose, smiling, or clubbing a baby seal.

 

In your scenario you talked about two guys who looked the same. I'm talking about two guys who both take care of themselves, but one is just better looking. The lesser of the two is obviously not going to take comfort in the fact that maybe some girl somewhere is going to love him in spite of it. Try having sex with someone who loves you in spite of your looks.

[AnotherBrokenDoll]

I am that person.

 

Personally, a hot girl is a hot girl whether she's scowling, picking her nose, smiling, or clubbing a baby seal.

 

In your scenario you talked about two guys who looked the same. I'm talking about two guys who both take care of themselves, but one is just better looking. The lesser of the two is obviously not going to take comfort in the fact that maybe some girl somewhere is going to love him in spite of it. Try having sex with someone who loves you in spite of your looks.

 

But surely if they love me, they will be having sex with me because they love me. Or at least i would hope so.

 

With two guys who take care of themselves personally i would probably go for the guy who is less good looking, i wouldn't feel so intimidated that way. But really, i have been attracted to guys who aren't in the least bit good looking to me. But i cared about them alot. And loved being around them and did feel attracted to them.

 

I do get where you are coming from of course. If given the shot between someone who is good looking and someone who isn't, but they are both good people and what not then im sure most people would chose the good looker, but at the same point, can't someone with an amazing personality mean more then the prettiest girl in town who isn't quite so equipped in the personality feild?

[ProtestTheHero]

I do get where you are coming from of course. If given the shot between someone who is good looking and someone who isn't, but they are both good people and what not then im sure most people would chose the good looker, but at the same point, can't someone with an amazing personality mean more then the prettiest girl in town who isn't quite so equipped in the personality feild?

 

This is another interesting aspect of this argument. You notice that when we refer to the lookers we are assuming they are devoid of personality and when we refer to the more average looking people we attribute to them an above-average personality.

 

Think about how attractive people are treated. Their personalities can develop unhindered and they can become their own unique individual because no one is bashing their looks and they're not being told that they'd never find anyone or that that they're ugly.

 

Consider now an average to below average person. They are not going to be treated as well as an attractive person. A lot of them will be isolated, lonely, rejected, made fun of, ridiculed, etc. They will start to believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them. They will strive to develop their own unique personality but most inevitably become jaded, cynical, and self-conscious because of the way they have been treated. They will view themselves as flawed and this in turn will affect their personality. Others will see them as negative individuals and will feel no sympathy for their situation because they believe that they deserve it because of their poor attitude. What these people don't understand is that we don't start with these negative, poor attitudes. We are routinely shown that we don't matter and the negative attitudes are a result of that.

 

It's really not fair, because most attractive people are going to have attractive, outgoing personalities because of how they've been treated and validated by others.

 

That really changes the argument, in my opinion. There isn't much to work with.

[AnotherBrokenDoll]

I actually agree with that. That attractive people who have been treated so well have the support of society at least to be outgoing and fun and what not, where as if an average person tried to do the same things, they may be laughed at or jeered at, which in turn lowers how they feel about themselves.

 

But i still think that in alot of cases average people can break out of that and be the confident people they were ment to be, and i do know alot of attractive girls who are shy and self conscience.

 

In general though i do agree with that comment, making the attractive people, more attractive, and those seen as average seem lower.

 

Then the tables can be turned all over again because what one person thinks is attractive is so very different to others.

[Batya33]

I wouldn't be with someone who was attracted to me "in spite of" my not looking like a model, and vice versa. And anyway, who wants to be picked apart as a list of attributes that way - I would think in a loving relationship you're attracted to the whole person with little focus on "I am attracted to her face right now and yesterday I was attracted to her personality"

[bijoux27]

I don't think a girl has to be a model-type for a guy to feel sexually attracted to her.

[Seraphim]

I do not think so. Anyone that has the perfect model bod is probably 2% of the population. So does that mean 98% of the male population settles?? I do not think so.

[lady00]

I was talking to this guy who does not take care of his body at all the other day. He has a good personality as far as a good sense of humor, but, here is the story:

 

So he was in love with this girl who looked like a model. She didn't like him that way (she was his friend) but he forever pined after her. Finally, he settled for this girl that he wasn't sexually attracted to. He broke it off with her because of that. He admits he was being selfish b/c he didn't want to be alone.

 

Don't you think its a bit ridiculous to expect a woman to be a model when you aren't yourself?

 

Are all the men who aren't dating models essentially settling?

 

It is ridiculous. Luckily, however, most men, at least the ones I have met, been friends or acquaintances with, do not strike me as being like this. I think most people actually do have reasonable expectations. Do guy sometimes fantasize about hooking up with models? Of course, but we all do, at least I know I do fantasize from time to time about that. At the end of the day, however, I think many, many men who are in relationships do not feel like they are settling and are, in fact, sexually attracted to their non-model girlfriends or wives.

 

That's not to say that men don't have expectations about their partners being fit, but the good guys out there understand that as we age our bodies are obviously going to change...but that doesn't mean we can't stay fit for our age. My mom is a perfect example of this...she has a great body especially for someone who has gone through all of the changes that pregnancy does to your body, she maintains a healthy diet, works out, and generally looks out for her health. I think it's fair and reasonable for men to expect their partners to do this, within reason, as long as they realize it's a two-way street and their wives/girlfriends may well expect the same thing. Of course, it depends on the couple, some will expect this some won't. I'm not at all saying that love should be dependent on looks, of course it should not, but I think that when people do love each other, they worry about each other's health, appearance etc because that often contributes to how people feel about themselves, how much energy they have etc.

 

But for a guy to expect a woman to be a model when he is not one himself (or vice versa)? Yes, that's pretty ridiculous.

[Tallisman]

I have no idea how attraction and looks differ because everytime someone tries to answer that question they invariably post a bunch of intangible qualities.

 

Let me try by way of exmple: Most People (within a culture) will agree as to what is/are good looking qualities in a person (probably mostly facial), but not most will be attracted(sexually) to all good looking people of the opposite gender.

 

Most women will agree that Tom Cruze is a good looking guy, but not most women will date him because of his height(were it not for his fame and wealth).

 

I have read on a thread here where a woman's described a short(5'5") guy as "YUCK" even though the guys is described as good looking. ie she is not attracted to him

 

The point is, what is good looking is more universally accepted while attraction is more personal and individualized.

 

Most Women are attracted to Tallness(and not so good looking) while much fewer women are attracted to good Looking but short guys.

 

Ofcourse I want it all in a woman, but I am more attracted to a nice figure in woman than any particular facial attribute.

 

I am surprised that the Guy used the word "Settle" to describe his action. I have always seen that word used mostly by women.

[Manco]

Absloutely not. I can't imagine how insulting it would be to women to say that I settled for you because I couldn't get a beautiful model. It's like saying a girl settled for you because she couldn't get a vibrator that turns on on its own.

 

Girls don't have to be perfect looking to be perfectly lovable. I alway fall for the girls who are not model type (or anything close to that) but who are fairly attractive and have a fun, caring nature about them. Actually, I can't stand those so called model types because all they do is just sit there looking like they want to kill you if you so much as say anything.

 

Some guys will always want a perfect looking woman and it's their choice. I'm not gonna lie, those women are very seductive but for how long? One night? One week?

[annie24]

personally, i think a lot of the models these on the fashion runways, in the magazines... look hungry and confused. i just want to buy some of those girls a sandwhich and a piece of cake! I can't see how men would be sexually attracted to women without a stich of fat on their bodies. Those women don't look healthy, and they don't look like they would be able to pump out a few babies.

[Batya33]

I mean that someone's features and physique is only part of attraction because the other parts are how he carries himself, eye contact, vibe, energy, presense, posture, whether he looks bright or sparkly to name a few, at least for me. I met several men through on line sites who had awesome pictures but in person it all fell flat because of one or more of those factors. Or men who look great in person until they begin speaking and then it all goes to heck.

[schaser]

No offense, but you sound bitter.

 

I think it's true that attractive people are perhaps more confident and outgoing since people might warm to their good looks and offer them validation because of it. And I suppose society is "lookist", so to speak, which doesn't help less attractive people.

 

But I doubt many decent people dislike or even despise ugly people. In terms of friendship at least, I doubt looks matter that much.

[schaser]

I was talking to this guy who does not take care of his body at all the other day. He has a good personality as far as a good sense of humor, but, here is the story:

 

So he was in love with this girl who looked like a model. She didn't like him that way (she was his friend) but he forever pined after her. Finally, he settled for this girl that he wasn't sexually attracted to. He broke it off with her because of that. He admits he was being selfish b/c he didn't want to be alone.

 

Don't you think its a bit ridiculous to expect a woman to be a model when you aren't yourself?

 

Are all the men who aren't dating models essentially settling?

 

I think this OP is over-generalizing men and I don't think that is fair.

 

Not all men immediately go for models. Looks are relative and thus every man would have his type or ideal. I don't necessarily go for model-like women, since "conventionally attractive" (so to speak) women don't really appeal to me. If anything, I sometimes think that slightly chubby (but not obese) women can be sexy, and that certainly is not what the media portray as the standard or archetype of female physical attractiveness.

[ProtestTheHero]

No offense, but you sound bitter.

 

I think it's true that attractive people are perhaps more confident and outgoing since people might warm to their good looks and offer them validation because of it. And I suppose society is "lookist", so to speak, which doesn't help less attractive people.

 

But I doubt many decent people dislike or even despise ugly people. In terms of friendship at least, I doubt looks matter that much.

 

I sound bitter because I am bitter. I can't begin to explain how crappy I feel everytime this topic comes up. This is something that I have dealt with ever since I was old enough to go to my first dance, my first boy-girl party, my first homecoming, or prom. I have plenty of friends because they don't evaluate me physically unless I do something to draw attention to that aspect of my life. The funny thing is I do cardio to maintain a good body, I'm not overweight, I just for whatever reason don't have the cute facial features I guess.

 

Basically, as long as I act and view myself like a non-sexual being, everyone's cool with me. Once I branch out into that area and start asking women out people respond as I've detailed. I just need to learn that it's not something I'm supposed to have.

[schaser]

OK, but I think everyone has challenges. Sometimes I think dating, sex and relationships are overrated. Seeking out a partner because one wants closeness or intimacy to me is fine, but I don't like the idea that people must always be "on the lookout" for sex.

 

OK, sex feels good. But it's not the only pleasurable thing in life, so saying that one must seek out sex because it feels good doesn't make sense to me. I think this is one bad thing about the sexualized culture we live in. I'm no prude at all, but there is more to life than simply having sex. I wouldn't consider someone to be a loser simply because they didn't value seeking out sex as much as others.

[ProtestTheHero]

OK, but I think everyone has challenges. Sometimes I think dating, sex and relationships are overrated. Seeking out a partner because one wants closeness or intimacy to me is fine, but I don't like the idea that people must always be "on the lookout" for sex.

 

OK, sex feels good. But it's not the only pleasurable thing in life, so saying that one must seek out sex because it feels good doesn't make sense to me. I think this is one bad thing about the sexualized culture we live in. I'm no prude at all, but there is more to life than simply having sex. I wouldn't consider someone to be a loser simply because they didn't value seeking out sex as much as others.

 

I agree. I don't mean that I'm actively out and about trying to get laid, what I mean is that anytime I try to branch outside of anything platonic I have to face a rather extensive list of obstacles. I think guys who are actively trying to get laid give off a "seek and destroy" vibe that screams desperation. Obviously, that's not my goal. I'm not trying to impress people with numbers or blow anyone away with my sexual escapades so that I can be considered cool or edgy.

[xxNPxx]

I think you're confusing attraction with looks. Two different things. And luckily I know the last post to have no basis in reality other than perhaps in that one poster's opinion (which I'd be curious to know if there is any basis since there are millions of women in north america).

 

yes, i think it would be really hypocritical to expect something from your partner that you aren't yourself. ie, expecting your partner to be a fit gym rat with perfect thighs when you are the poster boy for dunkin donuts - that's just ridiculous.

 

but like batya pointed out, attraction is different from looks. you can be attracted to someone even if they don't look like a model. attraction is deeper.

 

I've heard a lot of Europeans say this. I don't know what it's like in the UK or where ever you are from. But I for sure agree.

 

But I'm most definitely not the average guy. I prefer a girl who is shy, more of a person who does interesting things at home, and possibly know how to cook. Of course, women today are told NOT to be like this because it gets people thinking SEXISM!!! I don't mean to offend anyone but, feminists took away the type of girl I love Ah well, that's the price you have to pay for freedom I guess.

[Batya33]

I've heard a lot of Europeans say this. I don't know what it's like in the UK or where ever you are from. But I for sure agree.

 

But I'm most definitely not the average guy. I prefer a girl who is shy, more of a person who does interesting things at home, and possibly know how to cook. Of course, women today are told NOT to be like this because it gets people thinking SEXISM!!! I don't mean to offend anyone but, feminists took away the type of girl I love Ah well, that's the price you have to pay for freedom I guess.

 

I'm not a European. I completely disagree with your massive generalizations or that some abstract concept like "feminism" "took away" anything - newsflash - women, just like men, make decisions about how to run their lives independently, not based on some theory that they are told as in brainwashing. And, guess what - I am an independent career woman who also likes to cook and do interesting things (what does that mean, "interesting"?) at home and outside of home. I don't label myself as a feminist.

 

With all due respect, may I suggest that it might make you are more "interesting" match if you did your best toiavoid generalizing about women in this particular way and avoided viewing women as docile sheep who follow some abstract concept you call "feminism" (which seems to mean to you that the person cannot be shy or like to do interesting things at home - never heard feminism described or applied that way). Obviously you are entitled to your personality and looks preferences but the generalizations you wrote are often a huge turn off to women, "feminist" or otherwise.

[annie24]

I've heard a lot of Europeans say this. I don't know what it's like in the UK or where ever you are from. But I for sure agree.

 

But I'm most definitely not the average guy. I prefer a girl who is shy, more of a person who does interesting things at home, and possibly know how to cook. Of course, women today are told NOT to be like this because it gets people thinking SEXISM!!! I don't mean to offend anyone but, feminists took away the type of girl I love Ah well, that's the price you have to pay for freedom I guess.

 

what is it that you've heard a lot of europeans say exactly?

 

and how is a woman who doesn't know how to cook = feminist? I live alone, i cook for myself. I don't know why that is suddenly considered a feminine vs. non-feminine trait. I know men who cook also, both single and married. It's about preparing food to keep yourself alive!

[StrawberryYogurt]

Don't you think its a bit ridiculous to expect a woman to be a model when you aren't yourself?

 

Are all the men who aren't dating models essentially settling?

 

Of course it's ridiculous. People generally ask for much more in the dating scene than they bring to the table themselves.

[JadedStar]

Men are not the only ones who expect more out of the person they will date then they have to offer. I see women do it all the time too. Both genders do it, but not eveyrone in each gender does it. I see women gripe about not finding a guy who will jet her off to expensive places, have a huge schlong, look like a calvin klein model and pine over her and do as her bidding. YEt at the same time maybe she is frumpy, doesn't have a job and complains about everything all the time. Or maybe she has three kids under the age of 13 who are unruly. Or is generally a nutjob. Etc.

[Crush85]

Men are not the only ones who expect more out of the person they will date then they have to offer. I see women do it all the time too. Both genders do it, but not eveyrone in each gender does it. I see women gripe about not finding a guy who will jet her off to expensive places, have a huge schlong, look like a calvin klein model and pine over her and do as her bidding. YEt at the same time maybe she is frumpy, doesn't have a job and complains about everything all the time. Or maybe she has three kids under the age of 13 who are unruly. Or is generally a nutjob. Etc.

 

I completely agree

[Pegasus]

You're settling only if you're not honest to yourself about your own qualities you can offer. In any other way, it's mostly realistic by "numbers" - 5 marry 5, 7 marry 7, 10 marry 10....etc. Except where I live - seems that most girls are attracted to guys with no hair so like 70% of the male population shave their heads.

 

The only other place I saw so many shaved head people is in Poland (and I really traveled fair amount of world). It's funny how it works around here. (it's not a rant just a comment, I have my beautiful blonde ).