davew

I came upon some great songs that have helped me a lot today. I have been stuck holding onto somebody who "wants to be friends" after 3 years...you know the story. Its the same as all the rest. She fell out of love and cannot admit it so she holds on a leads me on. But this has helped me today: HAPPY SONG words & music by Joel Ackerson Tie me up again, and beat me until I bleed Then tell me that you'd like me better without my scars Be my only friend, be the only girl I need And I'll try to love you just the way you are And one of these days I'm gonna write you a happy song Just like one of these days you'll stop sleepin' around Sooner or later we're bound to learn how to get along One of these days we'll stop bringin' each other down Set me up again, just to laugh at me when I fall Then tell me to wipe the tears out of my eyes You say we've reached the end, but then you're the one to call Baby it's the worst of all your lies One of these days I'm gonna write you a happy song And one of these days you might want me around Sooner or later we're bound to learn how to get along One of these days we'll stop bringin' each other down So I let you go again, let it mess me up inside Cause baby I wouldn't want nuthin' to cramp your style But every time I bend, you take me for a ride And then ask why it's so hard for me to smile... I need to smile So one of these days I'm gonna write me a happy song Just like one of these days you'll stop leadin' me on Sooner or later I'm bound to learn how to get along One of these days you'll come lookin' and I'll be gone You're gonna come lookin' babe... but I'll be gone You know you always come lookin' babe... but I'll be gone >> PUT ME DOWN words & music by Joel Ackerson If I wished you well, you'd mess yourself up to spite me And if I offered my life, you'd keep me alive just to fight me What do you want, and what do you need You ask to be carried, then quickly you plead Put me down If I ran away, you'd hunt me back down and you'd find me But if I tried to stay, how little you care, you'd remind me That I'm probably to blame, that we've come to this Cause I leave myself open, and you never miss Put me down, cause it's what I deserve Put me down, for having the nerve Put me down Cause I had the nerve to care If I told the truth, how cynical I've come to be Sometimes, I pray that you'll find the strength, to end what you've started with me Cause I gave you my heart, and I knew you'd break it Here's your big chance girl, so why don't you take it Put me down, cause I want this to end Put me down, if you were ever my friend Put me down Why don't you please put me down You can hear the actual songs at link removed I hope it helps you too... dave w

wow...I can't think of anythink that would have helped me more today. Thanks soooo much for those words. I agree 100% and will take all your advice under serious consideration. I don't really feel like I am blameing myself as much as just accepting responsibility for my part/contributions. No one person in the relationship is to blame for anything...we both tried our best to do the right thing and get through, but in hindsight I certianly recognize the ways in which I contributed to getting us where we are today. I am going to go VERY VERY slow...like a gentle sping breeze and maybe call her or see her once or twice a month for a while and see what happens. Offering her my support along the way, and not contacting her if I am not feeling 100% in control of myself or 110% good with the situation. I have a lifetime to work this out... and she is moving to NYC (4 hrs from us now) in a few months anyhow, and we certainly are not getting back together before then no matter what...so there is no rush. Thanks again sooooo much. I was pretty frustrated when I logged in, but feel much better afetr reading that. -dw

BTW, I was waiting for the dam to break and the floodwaters to pour...you are correct, that is silly. Thanks for pointing that out...it helsp me greatly!! -dw

Not possible. If you want to date him, call him and ask him if he wants to hang out somewhere...lunch, movie, whatever...nothing wrong with "making the 1st move" if its what you want. You have nothing to loose and everything to gain at this point. game playing will never lead to happiness good luck dw

Thanks guys...you both make great points. She has done a lot to regain my trust, I just left it out of the post because it was long enough already. She always deserved my trust, beyond the brief bout of infidelity that was wrong but normal and understandable under the circumstances, she always acted very trustworthy. I just became nerotically focused on minute details and blew a lot out of propertion. And the fact that she has had some limited contact with him since we have been apart, but has made no effort to have anything but casual friendly contact with him tells me she was being honest during the past year when she swore it was over but she just wondered how he was doing with life sometimes. She will not initiate contact because I asked her not to and she will respect that. I told her I needed time apart to get over the hurt and to deal with myself...I said that being friends was just confussing me and hurting me. I was being overly emotional at times as a result of contact...she agreed that no contact was good for a while if I wanted that...but she cried and felt bad and couldn't hang up the phone for hours. I think I will wait a few days and see how I feel and then call and say hello.... I do feel confident that my emotions are in check and I will not interact with her by reaction to her, but from a solid place within myself. Thanks again... dave

And NOT just because I desperately want contact, either....I do, but I really just want to do the right thing for us both, more. And I can suffer No Contact for as long as necessary if we both come out better and happier people. My dilemma is this: I know she did/does not really want to break up with me. It is/was obvious in her eyes, words, and actions...and she has honeslty explained her perspective with me as being this way. Brief Synopsis of our situation: 3 years together. 1st year she was openly more commited to our relationship than I was willing to admit I was. I was really into her, but scared she was going to move off (she was graduation from college and planned to move) and I kept some distance to protect myself...I kept a little too much distance, she felt unrequited, and we drifted apart for a while...she met somebody and cheated on me, planning on breaking up w/ me after. I caught them, we broke up for a very short period, but the jolt knocked me out of my shell and I told her how much I really cared for her...we made up and got back together. She moved in, all was good. Or so it seemed. She had a hard time putting the affair behind her. She stopped contact w/ the OG, but NO CONTACT made her miss him sometimes. This made her feel terrible, and to doubt her commitment for me. the guilt got to her a lot..she never believed she could be this type of person (a cheater or liar)...we would fight over it, I would get real hurt questioning her feelings for him & me..I was still very insecure from what had happened...our relationship became negative, beating down her self esteem and mine. It sucked because we both still loved eachother, but couldn't get out of the negative cycle. Until, she stood up and broke the cycle by breaking up. She claims she is doing it for me, because she feels like she is a bad person and will just keep hurting me by doubting if we should be together. We have been apart 2 months. She has not been with the OG or anybody else. She said she has no interest in dating anybody for a long time until she gets her self esteem back and feels like a good person again. But she also says she hopes that someday we can both be in a place to try again. That the time apart will help us both grow and move past what happened enough to start a new... I agree. But I think that the past 2 months have been enough (for me) to break the cycle and let me move on. I now trust her more than ever, and I don't feel insecure about her feelings, etc...and I honestly feel like I can give her all the space she needs to find herself again. She still thinks that if we get back together we will just slip into the same negative patterns of the past and hurt eachother more... I have been respecting this and doing NO Contact, hoping that missing me will help her come around and want me back. The problem is this: she doesn't miss our negative relationship even if she misses me a lot. And to her, coming back is coming back to that, not to me as a different person in a different place. And she respects me enough to keep No Contact so as to "not lead me on" when I see her...because her feelings are obviously still there when I do see her. She wants to keep being friends and see eachother regularly...I couldn't do that before because it hurt too much to be with her and not be able to be intimate or affectionate, and to feel the loss. But TODAY I feel like no contact is wrong...and that seeing her would best show her how things are and can be different. That the cycle is broken and we are not feeding off eachother anymore. She convinced herself that we could not fix the relationship being together, and NO Contact lets her stay in that belief and crystalize it. Contact (with rules and respect for eachother) seems like it would be more fruitfull for both of us....as long as I could deal, which I think I can. Besides, I just plain miss her and want to say hello...and I would like to help build her self esteem back up. She truly is an amazing person, and by being around her and reminding her of this, I'd like to make her feel good about herself again. am I being weak and convincing myself this is right? or am i right? please share your thoughts, experiences and advice.... sorry for the long book!! -dw

I've been thinking about this question a lot lately too, since my GF of 2.5 yrs just left me. We had a reaaly great relationship, but we had some problems last year where I wasn't giving the relationship (or her) the attention or commitment it desreved...we pulled apart for a while and she had an affair. This was a slap in the face for me but was enough of a wake-up to make me realize how much I neglected her, and we got back together. Things were really great but she never got over the guilt, and had trouble fully letting go of the feelings she had for the other guy she had been with briefly. He was a nice guy with many similar interests, and sometimes she would miss him, as is normal...but the guilt got to her, and I didn't help any by getting mad at her and showing how much it hurt me all the time. She never saw her self as "a cheater" or the type of girl who could do that to somebody...and in the end she (and I) dragged her self esteme down so low, being with me just made her feel crappy all the time. She didn't want to leave me (the person) but had to leave the relationship to get her head above water again. So the short version of my long answer is that sometimes they leave because they have no other choice, its what that have to do to make themselves happy and healthy. But it is very hard for them to do too...they are convinced its the only choice, and often it is given how things have become. You just have to be thankful that they have the strenth and courage to stand up and take care of themselves...this is one thing we love in them so much, right? dave w

my guess is that he is just trolling for replies because he enjoys reading them...don't waste your time. there are plenty of other places he can get this info if its legit... dw

I think you have to ask yourself what are your goals? does going to this bar serve these goals or hinder them? and are you really ready to do this this to yourself? If you have made the commitment to yourself to fix your life, and no contact is a part of that commitment, does going there help support you in moving forward? Or are you just going to test her...to see what she does? if this is the case, we all know she will fail the test. Even if she gets drunk and goes home with you...will this be the solution to your relationship problems? the fix you need?? good luck dw

I have been in a similiar place as he might be. even though I loved my GF very much at the time and was still very attracted to her physically, there have been periods in our relationship where I just couldn't have sex with her. It was hard for me to initiate it and after several failed attempts she also began having trouble being assertive. So periods would pass that were w/o sex. I was still sexually active mentally and would like to look at porn and would even think about her often when I masterbated...but I just couldn't engage with her in that way. I didn't know it at the time but the problem for me was anxiety that had built up between us over other matters. various circumstances at that time had me feeling unsafe and vulnerable in the relationship. For me sex isn't just about physical pleasure, its an intimate extension of my feelings for her, and if things are just right I sometimes hold back from expressing myself, unconsciously. Once we worked through the issues that made me feel unsafe, we had great sex again.... I have no idea what your fiance is going through, but that was my experience. Also its sometimes fun to just look through escort sites out of curiosity and fantasy. I have looked at many in my life, but have never even considered actually hiring one for real for one second...it may not be as damaging as it seems. I just read a wonderfull book that helped me work though this a lot...maybe it would help you as well: The Dance of Intimacy: A Woman's Guide to Courageous Acts of Change in Key Relationships by Harriet Lerner Good luck

I'm a new member here and joined mostly to say thankyou to all that have posted recently. I have been lurking for a few weeks and have found your thoughts and suggestions helpful and healing. My GF and I broke up last month after almost 3 years together. Things got a little crazy and we found ourselves in some cylical patterns that we were both feeding off of and that had causing us to react to eachother in a negative way. The more we "tried" to fix it the worse it got and eventually she said "enough" and moved out. Its been very painfull for both of us, but mostly me because I still feel like its worth saving today, but she says she needs time to heal her self esteem and figue out what she wants. She says she loves me but has had doubts about our compatibility recently and doesn't want to come back unless she is 100% sure of us, otherwise she feels like she will just hurt me more by being with me and having more doubts...I don't know how true it all is or if the past few months just has our heads spinning, but it doesn't matter because its how she feels. Anyhow...I miss her more than anything and really just want to hug her again. The few times I have seen her recently have been really nice, and she has shown me so much love. I see it in her eyes and know she still cares for me deeply. This makes it harder to let go, but it also helps alot at the same time. She lives close by and wants to be "friends" through this, but I told her I could not do that and I needed time away to get over her some firts. We are in our 2nd week of no contact, which I now expect to last for some time. Its really difficult but here are some thoughts that are helping me through my day. I wanted to share since many of you are in the same or similar place as me: >She isn't doing this for fun. Its very hard for her too. She does it because she has to and needs to to help herself and me. >she is a caring and loving person with no malicious intent, who is doing the best she can within her abilities (emotional and intellectual). >This is only a temporary state. I am in this for the long haul and the extended future is much more important to me than the next few weeks or months or even years. I can stand to be sad for a short period to be happy for a long one. > I cannot control her thoughts or actions, but only my own. It is better for me to take care of myself rather than trying to force my agenda on her. We are different people with different needs, and I cannot guess at her motivations, reactions, or feelings. >I love her and trust that she is a mature and autonomous person with the ability to decide what she needs to remain happy and healthy, this is one thing I love about her most. If she says she needs time, then she does and I should support that and not be selfish. She will appreciate my support and love me more for it in the end. Aren't I supposed to be here when she needs my support, even when its really really hard? >I have always asked that she be truthful and honest with me. Now that she is, I cannot hold it against her and beat her up over it simply because the truth hurts or its not the truth I want to hear. It would hurt more if she lied and stayed with me longer and still had doubts she didn't talk about, until she snapped and left out of the blue. >She is hurting and feeling blue too, but doing what she needs to take care of herself. I should too...obsessing over her every move or action does nobody any good. >socializing with other people (especially attractive guys) is not a threat to me, it only helps her sort out her feelings more. As it help me to socialize with others as well. >if she doesn't call or write its out of respect for my feelings, not because she doesn't want to. She wants to see me very badly, but knows that is unfair and only hurts us both more right now. If any of the above are not true then there is nothing worth being sad over as she isn't the person I even want to be with and I should move on anyhow... Sorry this got a little long. But I feel better now. I hope you do too... davew