What is going on with MEN?

I am convinced that something is going on with men re: relationships particularly.

I know women have changed a lot in the last 30 years. I think men are having some real difficulty with these changes. I think how much build into her relationship giving up who she was, was in my grandma relationship. She is 78, and widowed. Her whole life was geared towards finding a man and making him a home and family, regardless of whether she wanted it or not. My mom gave up much in her relationships , but now in her third marriage seems have carved out a space for her pursuits , her husband who is older ( she is 58 and he is 67) doesn't like her being away for periods of time for her writing workshops or to be with me , but he deals with it. I am so stoked on being me that I would only be in a relationship that enhanced my life, I don't think I need to give up anything, except some independence to be more interdependent.

The guys I am meeting lately are not even wanting to broach a relationship , well into the dating process.( the sex, the companionship, etc.. is fine, it's the intention , the talk, the "relationship" stuff that is avoided) ( this in in Los Angeles, CA) It seems people, couples are on-off more than on now. That it's easier in many ways to be single and have flings than to invest in a relationship. ( it might have always been that way) It seems like a real tough time being had by a lot of people in relationships now, men and women. Women are asking for more than we ever asked for, but very different things than we used to. Men are confused or hurt or angry or bewildered by these new standards.

Men what is going on?

Men what is going on?

This is a terrible time to be growing up...and it's a HORRIBLE time to be single if you ask me.

Maybe I just haven't met the right person, but I'm starting to worry that I never will. And if I do, she'll be bored of me and looking for something better in a few months.

That's basically been the story of my love life up until this point. I'm so insecure about it right now that even if I did meet the girl of my dreams that loved me for me, I think I'd probably dump her because if she's satisfied with ME, then there MUST be something wrong with her!

"This is a terrible time to be growing up..."

You bet. Instant gratification etc. Society's gone down the tubes. Of course this has been said before, in wholly other time periods, but it's especially true now with the advent of TV, Internet, cell phones, advertising, and all at the same time! New frontiers maybe aren't so great. Not much to be done at this point but either be a hermit, or go with the flow.

May I be so rude to ask your age, Aschleigh?

I have seen a few changes over the past 30 years among men and women.

In the past 10 years, I've seen a rejection of feminism that puzzles me, especially among women.

I have no point to make.

Just wondering.

No I definitely think the OP has a really valid point. It is basically what i have been thinking myself over the past couple of months.

This is australia, and its the same here.

the word "relationship" is almost like a swear word, an god forbid if you ever broached the subject with any guy you are "seeing"...

its deifinately an instant gratification society.

Its like how you are really hungry and go and eat Mcdonalds and then an hour later you are hungry again, and you've forgotten what it was you ate.

Always looking ofr the next big mac/ woman.

Sorry , I might be a bit bitter today....

Ehhh... it's always easy to say "things aren't like they used to be" but hey that's life.

And I think everyone's experiences are different. There's LOTS of guys who want a committed relationship... but they're having trouble finding girls who will reciprocate.

To make it hit closer to home for you, Aschleigh, my best friend lives in L.A. too. He came out of a 10+ year relationship so was a bit out of dating practice, and really just wanted a good steady girlfriend. He'd never DREAM of cheating on a girl. But his first two gf's? Total PSYCHO * * * * * ES who BOTH cheated on him and tried to make him be the guilty one. Now he's got a new gf who seems a little less commitment-phobic. Well, they moved in after 2 months, but that's a different story!

As for myself, I met my ex-gf in L.A. as well. Things went great for the first 6 months of our LDR, and we'd even had tickets purchased to see each other again, as well as planning on me moving out there.

But the last two months? Bam. "I can't have a boyfriend right now."

So it's not just guys in L.A. who are to blame! L.A. girls are just as bad!

Yes i definitely have to agree, it really saddens me to think that there are genuine people out here (yes im unfortunately in socal too) who are looking for that companionship but really is all about oh who can i screw first or w/e w/e. Sometimes i really wonder what the hell is wrong with people. I feel like smacking the s . h. i ._t out of people who have a person devoted to them yet its like oh lets have my cake and eat it too. I mean this for both men and women, its like the majority of society is not capable of healthy relationships. smh

I'm 31. I'm been in 2 serious relationships, the last one ended a year ago.

I was so devoted, willing to work through anything. Ofcourse I have my own flaws.

I don't think most of society is not capable of healthy relationships. I know men in their 30's who are still doing the " I just can't have a relationship right now " stuff. They can have sex though.

I told my ex I couldn't understnad why he wanted the mcnuggets when he already had the filet mignon. He's on his own now.

I think that women are just moving into the modern relationship a lot slower than men. Most of the women and young girls I know are generally apalled by today's men, and I've heard comments such as, "he made me pay for my half of the dinner" and "he didn't even open the door for me." Men have moved past that stage, few females have accepted that and thus are moving into the modern relationship very slowly. Men don't "court" women like they used to 70 years ago. Men don't walk a step behind their significant other. Men don't hold doors for their significant other. Men (smart men at least) don't pay for their significant other's meals. Even now, women are starting to propose to men instead of the traditional way.

We've moved out of a traditional society and we've become more diverse, independent, and selfish.

Just my thoughts,

Kane.

That stuff, paying for the meal, opening the door , courting, it's called chiveraly.

Men still make more than women on average, the person with more money paying for the meal seems fair. Men still have more upper body strength, they can get the door. Modern relationships suck often. It would be nice if men were taught how to be chiveralous.

That stuff, paying for the meal, opening the door , courting, it's called chiveraly.

Men still make more than women on average, the person with more money paying for the meal seems fair. Men still have more upper body strength, they can get the door. Modern relationships suck often. It would be nice if men were taught how to be chiveralous.

That's pretty stereotypical and old fashioned if you ask me. Just because men make more on average means that men should pay for a meal and/or whatever else? Absolutely not. A man, or woman can put that money to much better uses. Doors are not very hard to open either. A woman is perfectly capable of doing it herself. As far as I'm concerned the only reason you think modern relationships suck is because you apparently have lack of romantic fufillment in your life.

And I'm definitely glad that men are now being raised to have more respect for themselves, no way will I ever raise my son to be chiveralous.

An article about Modern Chiveraly, being a gentlemen never goes out of style.

The key to living large is not fearlessness. It is not rare knowledge or even that elusive je ne sais quoi (though dropping in French phrases certainly does help).

To live large, you must connect with others while remaining true to yourself. It is finding that delicate balance between the old eye for an eye and having the confidence and security enough to know when to turn the other cheek. If you live large, you know that knowledge is power, but you’re acutely aware that "in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." It means to go through life with a sense of purpose, but more than willing to accommodate despair. Living large is adopting a personal code and sticking to it. That code must not only be simple, but multidimensional as well.

Loving well: If you get this, you should be writing this column. But there are some helpful hints to help a gentleman in this most elusive of all games. The bottom line: feel her pain, touch her heart and yes, rub her feet.

This is the most important aspect of a gentleman’s life. A gentleman is truly a gentle man when his girl feels like a lady. The reason gentlemen are such a rare breed is found in the duality of a man’s nature. A gentleman is attuned to the needs of others and sometimes willing to subordinate his most basic desires and impulses in order to put others at ease. He is giving, generous and honest, except in cases where those attributes put a serious damper on sleeping with as many women as possible, because a gentleman is, after all, still a man no matter how gentle.

Most important of all is the fact that a true gentleman knows that the excruciatingly painful but sweet rituals of courtship and love are hopelessly simplistic and absolutely incapable of embracing the infinite number of thoughts and feelings, and actions that make us who we are. They require more - a card on file at the local flower shop, a romantic restaurant where the maitre d’ treats him like a regular, condoms. Unfortunately, society has bred a number of women who value shallowness over depth, and this saddens the gentleman. When it comes to matters of love, the gentleman knows that it’s not what you do, but why you do it. If one can’t answer the why, there is no point in trying to figure out the how.

The last part of this triad is looking good. Perception is more important than reality, and if a gentleman cannot convey that he is one, then he isn’t. It’s that simple. Al Pacino had that great line in Devil’s Advocate: "Vanity is my favorite sin." We are all in love with ourselves to some extent, and it’s the ones who exude the Polo commercial without looking like they do it on purpose are the ones who get the looks at parties. But there’s a reason why so many fashion and grooming "experts" earn enough money these days to sit at home in baggy shorts, sipping pineapple juice and telling the rest of us how to put on our pants and wash our faces. It’s because appearances mean everything. There is simply no substitute for good hygiene. Clip your nails. Wash your ears. Comb your hair. Believe me, women notice.

Finally, a gentleman knows when to buy his girl flowers, how to avoid gaffes in the sack, what wine to order and when to make the move.

With apologies to Thomas Paine, these are the times that try men’s souls. Lucky you, guidance is on the way. This column will be for the man who wants to live large, love well and look good. Want that? Of course you do. And I’m going to tell you.

Learn it, use it. And above all, forget about your girlfriend’s little si

I think you are making a broad generalization relationships in the past based on your own personal experience which is fine but I dont believe that is the norm. I think that over time women have become more theoretically independent meaning that society has accepted the idea of women not being barefoot and pregnant, but there are still women out there who want that, while others do not. There are men who havent accepted the independence of women and some that have.

As far as just hooking up instead of relationships that has become more prevalent in areas where time is a premium and people dont want to invest in a relationship when they have so many options available.

It doesn't matter what an article says. There is not one breed of woman. There are those who like the gentleman. There are those who like the normal man. And there are even those who like aggressive men that end up beating them, my sister just happens to be one of them. I can also name several females, my son's girlfriend included, who prefer an honest, laid back guy who is himself rather than a man focused solely on pleasing a female and not himself. I thank God that most men have the respect for themselves enough to put them above the thoughts of others.

I know women have changed a lot in the last 30 years. I think men are having some real difficulty with these changes.

i couldn't agree with you more.

It seems people, couples are on-off more than on now. That it's easier in many ways to be single and have flings than to invest in a relationship. ( it might have always been that way)

I dont think it was always that way, no. But i totally agree its how it is now. And i'll probably get flamed for this, but i think its the shift in women over the last 30 years that you refer to which is behind it. IMO, its happened too fast. Lots of men are utterly bewildered by it. And interestingly, extremely turned off by it.

Women are asking for more than we ever asked for, but very different things than we used to. Men are confused or hurt or angry or bewildered by these new standards.

Men what is going on?

The answer's in your question. We're confused, hurt, angry and bewildered by these new standards.

That stuff, paying for the meal, opening the door , courting, it's called chiveraly.

Men still make more than women on average, the person with more money paying for the meal seems fair. Men still have more upper body strength, they can get the door. Modern relationships suck often. It would be nice if men were taught how to be chiveralous.

And get what in return? To be made to feel emasculated by a woman who is so focused on being "strong" and "independent" and "career-driven" that they put the man in their life at the bottom of the pecking order?

I know men in their 30's who are still doing the " I just can't have a relationship right now " stuff. They can have sex though.

but exactly the same applies to women hon. More so, IMO.

I recall a time when many careers were essentially closed to women and their role was mostly to raise children. For popcultural references, look no further than Lucy, Ozzie and Harriet, June Cleaver or Wilma Flintstone in the 50s and 60s.

In the 70s, it became acceptable for women to enter previously male-dominated fields and the BC pill allowed them to control childbearing like never before. Men at that time were happy to escape the confines of being the sole breadwinner for a growing family and the pressures involved.

Somehow today's antifeminism has forgotten the reason these changes came about and miss the mythical "good old days."

Women's roles have changed but you may notice, so have men's.

Somehow today's antifeminism has forgotten the reason these changes came about and miss the mythical "good old days."

I agree, i think the changes you mention and the reasons for them were good and valid, and in that sense i do see myself as a feminist in the purest literal meaning. It's the more recent changes in attitude that i dislike, rather than the old changes in legislation and medical science that occurred in the 60's and 70's. Its the lack of respect or commitment that i've noticed. So many women now are just anti-men, plain and simple. They dont need us, they dont like us, they put us at the bottom of their list and effectively just use men when they want sex. And then they complain when men react to that by taking a similar stance. In the end, nobody is respecting anybody.

Women's roles have changed but you may notice, so have men's.

but dont you think men's roles have changed because women's have?

Yes, women's advancements have affected men, but as I recall, 70s feminist ideology addressed equality in the same tone that civil rights did. It was about both genders having full opportunity. The recent backlash toward feminism often ignores this part of it, and sometimes even uses mythology like bra-burning or lesbian conspiracies to paint it as a social aberration. The results are irreversable.

I still won't vote for Ms. Clinton.

LOL.

I think you're running with the wrong men. I know plenty of men who are caring, devoted, loyal, gasp - married, etc. I know plenty of men who do want this. There are many men who don't want this though - I have some old friends who still just want to sleep around and rack up notches.

In my experience, women aren't much different. There are some loose and fast women out there, but there are also women who want something serious and stable with someone.

I agree with polo.

It's hard to generalize, but the men I know aren't all players or saints, nor are the women. Women and men share plenty of traits.

I am so stoked on being me that I would only be in a relationship that enhanced my life, I don't think I need to give up anything, except some independence to be more interdependent.

The guys I am meeting lately are not even wanting to broach a relationship , well into the dating process.( the sex, the companionship, etc.. is fine, it's the intention , the talk, the "relationship" stuff that is avoided)

You seem to be screaming "me, me, me" so much I would not expect any man to want to say "we, we, we".

Are all the 'eligible' women in La La Land like this? No wonder the men appear so messed up. Get out of Cali and go someplace real...

It's always a balance between the me and the we. Even in a happy, healthy relationship their is a constant negotiation between space for me and space for we.

Women have been so conditioned to accept we, that when we get a chance for me, we really take it.

California is as real as any other place. It depends on the person, I am very real. Willing to put the we above me sometimes. Willing to change and growth and learn to love my partner better. I want this in an equally enhancing relationship. I want to enhance his life, as he enhanced mine.