Is this being a "tease?"

[Batya33]

This is asked out of curiosity and inspired by reading postings on a comparable message board. I am not experiencing this situation now and do not need "advice" but all comments/sharing welcome.

 

If a woman is dating a man - let's say they've been out 4 or 5 times, and they plan their first sleepover - maybe it is for practical reasons, maybe because they want to spend the weekend together. The woman tells the man directly, and prior to the "sleepover" part that she is not ready to have intercourse with him and is not sure about how far she wants to take things sexually and that as long as he is ok with that she is comfortable with the sleeping arrangements. If he is not ok with that they can postpone the sleep over and/or sleep in separate rooms. The man agrees to the sleeping together/no sex/woman does not yet plan on having sex, scenario.

 

The woman, as she explained beforehand, does not have sex with the man. Perhaps he lets her know that if she changes her mind he would be open to having sex, perhaps not.

 

In this scenario, given the prior conversation and "ground rules" so to speak is the woman being a tease? Would you answer change if the woman and man just met that night?

 

I have been in the first situation several if not many times -- I was never called a tease, the man accepted my "boundaries" and things progressed when we were both ready for them to progress (and no I never changed my mind during the sleepover!). Sometimes the sleeping over with no real sex continued for months and it was always ok with the man.

 

There have been a few times where I was away on vacation, just met the man and said he could come back to my room but no "fooling around." Once or twice that ended up not being a comfortable situation because the man, not knowing me well enough (of course) did not believe that my no meant "no." Nothing harmful ever happened, it was just uncomfortable for me. The last time was over 10 years ago and I would never do that again.

 

Thoughts on whether the woman is being a "tease" in this situation? (I have also heard it said that if a woman goes back to a man's apartment after a date or invites him over he can assume she is willing to have sex - that has not been my experience but then again I always nicely but firmly explain - if it is an early date that if we end up at someone's apartment that is not going to happen).

 

Thanks for your input!

[DN]

The problem is that it can be a mixed message - not because you are deliberately doing that but because of all the games that other people play - or have played.

 

There is an expectation that women should appear not to be too eager or easy for sex. That can lead to game playing where a woman says one thing but does another because she wants to be pursued.

 

So in a situation like this, no matter what the woman says, her actions in agreeing to a sleepover can lead to a perceived mixed message even though one was not intended. This is not really anyone's fault. There have been too many instances of miscommunication where either women don't say what they really want or men don't pay attention to what a woman says.

 

So - unless both parties are absolutely sure that what is said is meant and understood - it's best not to put yourself in that situation.

[NJRon]

I don't think it's a tease at all. It is laying out the boundaries.

[Batya33]

Interesting, thanks. My mother - who I love dearly and who clashes with me on this and similar issues - would say - no sleepovers until you are ready to put out (not quite that language but in 1950s speak). I never minded if the guy "tried" anyway or said that if I changed my mind that was ok, but I wouldn't be thrilled to think that I had been a "tease" either - to be honest, sometimes it wasn't easy to be that direct and bring up the topic in the first place, but I always managed.

 

Perhaps I was "lucky" because most of the men in question veered more towards the traditional/old fashioned sort, seemed to really like me in a sincere, respectful way and at times were quick to say "that's fine - I'm not yet ready for that either" (and meant it).

[SarahRose]

I don't think you're being a tease if you lay the ground rules out in advance.

 

I will agree with your mom though on no sleepovers until you are ready to put out.

 

4-5 dates is too soon for sleepovers anyway.

[annie24]

no, i don't think that's being a tease. I think she would have been a tease if she had spent the entire day making sexual remarks and saying how she can't wait to have sex with him, but once they get home, then she says that she isn't ready. I think that would be being a tease.

[Dako]

Based upon the words of your post, it's reasonable.

 

However...setting, nuance, gesture, timing, pauses, eye contact, clothing, lighting mood, alcohol, sunsets and moon phase can mock every word of such an agreement.

 

The infamous, "one thing led to another."

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Batya33]

I don't think you're being a tease if you lay the ground rules out in advance.

 

I will agree with your mom though on no sleepovers until you are ready to put out.

 

4-5 dates is too soon for sleepovers anyway.

 

Since typically I waited about 5 months or more before having sex (shortest time I waited was 2 months) we usually got to the spending weekends together/sleepovers earlier than that. The last time I was in that situation was in 2005, we were both in our late 30s, he had definitely been around the block, and it was 100% clear to me that he was more than fine with my ground rules despite seeming to be very interested in me in that way.

 

I also think in that particular case, he realized early on from our discussions that being that intimate would only happen if there was a commitment, that I was somewhat tradtional/conservative about the meaning behind that level of intimacy, and he wasn't sure whether he wanted to get that serious with me.

 

I appreciate the respect he showed by not pushing the issue given my boundaries/standards and his uncertainty. Things ended for an entirely different reason at the three month mark and while I was very glad we dated - it really was a blast, mostly -- I was glad we hadn't taken it to that level of intimacy.

[ImThatGirl]

I don't think it is being a tease. I think that it is a talk that "should" happen before two people spend the night together. Whether the two know each other for an hour or for months, it should be talked about.

 

I'm sure there have been many women (or men) that have said "nothing can happen" and then changed their mind. This sets the scene for possibilities anytime a women says that.

 

If a man thoroughly respects a woman (or other way around,) and if a woman is 100% clear, nothing will happen - even if there is sexual flirting.

[itsthatguy]

I think if you just meet the guy at a bar or whatever and invite him to come to your room just to sleep, that's being a bit of a tease. Well, maybe not necisarily a tease, but chances are that guy in the bar is looking for a lot more than a person to fall asleep with that night, if you know what I mean.

 

If it's somebody you've been dating and actually know, I don't think that's a problem at all. My girlfriend and I both live with our respective parents, so it's not very easy to get to spend the night with each other, and I think both of us would gladly take a night to get to sleep together and not worry about parents freaking out, vs. going over to each others house, having sex, and then having to leave. It makes you feel loved and wanted and comforted to fall asleep with somebody else, so I don't think it's such a bad thing.

 

On that topic, one of my best friends (who is notorious for having a lot of one night stands) has a sleepover buddy. She's an ex-girlfriend of his, and if he's feeling lonely or even if she is, they'll call each other up just to spend the night together. No sex, no making out, no fooling around, just somebody to spoon with I think anybody would rather sleep with somebody else rather than on their own.

[melrich]

I have never really heard of this "sleepover" thing except in the context of kids parties and such.

 

So if there are adults out there doing "sleepovers", I think my leaning would be towards your mother's sentiment. Don't lay out the candy until you are ready to eat it, the kids won't be able to help them selves.

[Cardinal]

That is definitely nowhere near a tease. Just establishing boundaries.

 

I would have more than likely had a pretty long discussion with her about sex in general before the first sleepover. I'd definitely find out what her comfort level is so that there is no ambiguity. And I certainly would not be comfortable is she said no sex, then tried to initiate full blown intercourse. Partners shouldn't assume anything like that on a first night together. I'd be happy if she said, 'making out only', 'oral only', 'close contact only', 'no making out', 'massages, no kissing'..etc. etc. The more explicit the boundaries the better. Since the sleepover is planned you really aren't taking away sponteneity anyhow.

 

You also need to know what kind of man you are dealing with as to how aggressive he will be and whether or not reason might fly out the window. You are taking a risk, but this is definitely not a tease.

[Dako]

Am I the only one that imagines this approaching absurdity, with Powerpoint slides and wrtten agreements? If a lady told me no sex, I'd oblige, but if it became a detailed discussion of rules and boundries, I'd think she was a type A obsessed flake.

 

Maybe I'm destined to have the bed to myself. So be it.

[Batya33]

Am I the only one that imagines this approaching absurdity, with Powerpoint slides and wrtten agreements? If a lady told me no sex, I'd oblige, but if it became a detailed discussion of rules and boundries, I'd think she was a type A obsessed flake.

 

Maybe I'm destined to have the bed to myself. So be it.

 

I think there's a happy medium where it can be short direct and to the point (my approach). The fear is that without the clear statement there can be misunderstandings ranging from awkwardness to whether there was consent for what happened. I have been in the latter situation, many years ago and although I came away physically ok (he finally stopped after the third "NO!") it rattled me enough to know that going forward I would have to be clearer than I was. Never had that problem again and never had a long drawn out conversation. What I found was if I waited till I knew the man fairly well and if he was really interested in me in a sincere and respectful way he wanted to make sure that I was comfortable with everything that did or did not happen.

[holyohio]

Hmm.. regardless if this is teasing behavior, be aware that guys that pick up a lot of girls hear this a lot...about 30 minutes before they have the girl in the back of their '82 Camero with her panties around her ankles screaming along to Van Halen's "Right Now".

 

Women say this a lot because they don't want to be perceived as easy and to test the mettle of their suitor. On occation, they might even have the intention of wanting to sleep with the guy, but they'll just say this as a disclaimer so that later they can claim that "it just happened" or "they got swept away in the moment". A lot of women get turned on by a man who can take control...there are many reasons.

 

This is a common game that girls (especially ones that hang out at bars looking to get picked up) use, so moral of the story is...be careful who you offer to innocently sleep with, they may still try something (because, as I said, some guys have heard this all before and still end up getting laid) and you may be putting yourself at serious risk if he turns out to be a psychopath.

[Batya33]

My scenario was meant to be a bit different. I meant when the two people have gone on several dates in person already, not when you meet someone at a bar and go home with him or it is a first date after just typing and talking (no matter for how long a time!) on the internet. In those cases - where the man is for all purposes a complete stranger, I would have to assume -- from the perspective of caution -- that he would not understand my boundaries even if made clear and thereforeeee I wouldn't be in that situation in the first place. Over ten years ago while on vacation I found myself in that situation and it quickly became clear that he hadn't understood - or hadn't wanted to understand my clear message (yes he was drunk - how foolish of me!). Luckily - sort of - he got drunk and passed out in my room and so his attempts to convince me to change my mind - fairly rudely and disrespectfully - ended in him falling asleep. I never put myself in that situation again.

[Juliana]

If I tell someone that I do not want to have sex, I do not want to have sex, and I do not want to have sex...

 

I don't care what the moon is doing or what his ex was like.

 

I do not want to have sex.

[Boughtandpaidfor]

I would say teasing is by definition "not being clear". So it depends on how you say "no funny stuff!"- i.e. with what level of clearness and seriousness.

 

But certainly maybe no matter how much you say no- the man may still be thinking about it- even if he's clear that nothing's going to happen. Spending the night with someone you are involved with but haven't had sex with is going to create sexual tension- but if everything is clear then everyhting is clear and I don't see how that could be teasing.

[Royltnxile]

Am I the only one that imagines this approaching absurdity, with Powerpoint slides and wrtten agreements? If a lady told me no sex, I'd oblige, but if it became a detailed discussion of rules and boundries, I'd think she was a type A obsessed flake.

 

Maybe I'm destined to have the bed to myself. So be it.

 

LMAO, I've dealt with a few of those types.

 

I don't think Batya's scenario makes her a tease at all. Any decent guy she would be with in that situation would have no problem with respecting boundaries and "sleeping arrangements" early on in the relationship, especially if he really liked her and saw the potential in her.

[Dako]

Geeze, I didn't mean Batya is a type A flake. Just commenting on the thread's accumulation of rules and restrictions.

 

Ironically, I'd never take advantage of a woman in a situation like this.

[Batya33]

Geeze, I didn't mean Batya is a type A flake. Just commenting on the thread's accumulation of rules and restrictions.

 

Ironically, I'd never take advantage of a woman in a situation like this.

 

It's a shame that sometimes it needs to be discussed in those terms but given safety concerns sometimes it is warranted. About ten years ago a male colleague wanted to come to my place one evening to watch Seinfeld. There was no flirting, no talk of dating - he knew I was involved with someone and he was in from an out of town office. I had no idea he was getting a different message until he said that he was going to bring an overnight bag if things went well. At that time, I was shocked. I immediately cancelled the plan, but learned a lesson of sorts.

[Dako]

Seinfeld can be pretty suggestive...

[Batya33]

Seinfeld can be pretty suggestive...

 

LOL! Oh, I know that now! This was not the sponge episode ;-) I should add that the man in question had a serious girilfriend so I had even less reason to wonder - but thinking back - wow, how naive I was.