Cardinal

In my experience, it doesn't work well if you fear developing feelings with a fwb. It works better if you realize that feelings will develop and you are perfectly okay with that. Good friendships do involve feelings anyhow.

Hopefully he has had an orgasm by now =D

I am with matius in that I think PE is far more physiological than psychological. Older men have changed (and generally lower) hormone levels. That is a big driver in being able to last longer. But so is experience. 20+ years of consistent sex can teach a person a lot I would assume. Add that to a person that is really 'into it' and chances are they will learn their own body well enough to make lasting longer a reality (with the help of lowered sex hormone levels due to age). I can do a lot more now at 27 than I could at 18. And most of it is physiological. I have about 1-2 minutes warning most of the time before I blow. That is a lot of control time to work with. At 18? No chance in hell could I do that.

Just wanted to let you guys know how this panned out. Turns out in a lot of ways I was worried over nothing. My g/f doesn't seem particularly interested in oral, giving or receiving. However, she is definitely not faking orgasms now. She relies on a massive back massager vibrator for her orgasms everytime. She generally can't last more than about 40 seconds when she uses it. She is also not into any kind of manual stimulation internally (but really enjoys it externally). I honestly can't remember the last time I had a chance to go down on her. Overall, sex with her has been rather interesting getting used to.

I am going with...it depends on the frequency, the severity of the lie (white or black)...do the lies span accross the relationship, could they foreseeably control the lies, do they lie around everyone. Then just look at it in the context of the whole relationship. Chances are it can very much be a reason to end it. Being around someone who lies constantly and isn't even remotely good at it gets very lame very fast. Everyone lies pretty much everyday. It is easy to see if you look at a particular situation when too much is too much. Lies by themselves are not inherently good or bad.

I'd go with the EC pill and plan on using a second method in the future. EC pill will have side effects likely though if you choose that route. Just depends on whether the extra protection is worth it to you.

Are you disgusted that your girlfriend like to watch dudes kissing? Or are you really just disgusted by the idea of two guys making out? So many men love to watch girls kissing. Lesbian porn etc is a huge turn on for many of us. The reverse is less common I think but plausible. If it turns her on, it turns her on. I don't think she should try to squelch that thought. But I don't see why you two need to mention it or bring it up in your sex lives. It disgusts you. It turns her on. Big difference there.

G/F is on the pill. I use condoms. Condoms alone wouldn't work for me at all. Too much risk.

the penis rings trap blood. you can even have sex when you othewise wouldn't have an erection...i.e. the rigidity is gone. the blood is left in there and thereforeeee makes for a functional unit. More blood also means more sensitivity usually. More sensitivity makes achieving an erection easier if you had just lost one. the little condoms try to push blood out. the really crappy designs are very tight at the tip. Applying a squeezing pressure to the tip is one suggested way for a woman to help a man keep from orgasming and to make him lose, not gain an erection. If the condom is too small you often can't even get all the blood in there from a full erection. add in the psychological factor having to wear something to small and down it goes. You don't have to disclose tmi. Many people who have used 5-6 brands of condoms probably have found at least one that is ill-designed like that.

You are in a reasonable position now. You could just enjoy the relationship as is and wait it out until he is ready. He is man, let him come to you and initiate when he is ready. He is too equivocable. When you two decide to have sex again, if I were you, I'd make sure he doesn't have a chance to equivocate. That is really what seems to leave things so awkward. Focus on the responsibility aspects of it more too. Doesn't seem like he is ready in that regard.

To think, perceive and act. In philosophy, understanding the above is much like understanding why F= mass*acceleration in Newtonian mechanics. Such a simple equation. But a veritable universe of information at the tip of your fingers. A goal of physics is to explain nature. A goal of philosophy is to explain knowledge and existence. Thinking rationally, what we have to go on in life are our past experiences. The value of those experiences in shaping our choices in life depend on our perceptive abilities. I am a goal oriented individual, with happiness as an ultimate goal. To have any influence over that outcome requires action (or more pertinently reaction). A scientific approach is very intimately tied to my understanding of nature and how I structure my life and acquire knowledge. It reaches to the core of who I am. That I use a scientific approach to relationships should be obvious. It is much of what gives me my drive and ambition. All theories are wrong. Haven't we heard that one before. The value of a scientific theory is in its predictive and explanatory power. The rub for me in a relationship sense came when I first tried to apply generalizations without adequately considering individual differences. That approach fails in both its predictive and explanatory power. In short, its a crappy theory for relationships. So I had to throw that one out. But, advocating sexual awareness, education, experimentation, research and general education on a societal and invidual level is, as shadowslight has alluded, a great example showing the potential benefits from applying a scientific approach to sexual relationships. So far this appears to be a good theory.It represents progress. Ignorance and apathy represent regress. I'd view a disinterest in learning about a partner as more than selfish. It would go against everything I have learned so far in life. Why did I formulate my current approach to looking at this rather myopic little issue (faking orgasms)? Because I think it will do the best possible job at predicting and explaining the situation I find myself in. There is a fine line between making an assumption that a woman is faking an orgasm and gathering evidence that simply support a view (evidence ~ experience here). This issue technically isn't a math problem. But it does involve degrees of certainty.....which makes it a little probabilistic. Conclusion? Like it or not, an analytical nerd like me can make anything a math problem. Be careful not to take a scientific approach too literally and assume it will make an experience like a lab assay. If anything that would be a gross misinterpretation of what I am trying to get at. Finding out what works for you as an individual through experience (sex is all about emotion)...through participation in these forums by research, sharing ideas, integrating concepts...thinking, perceiving, acting...understanding nature, in this case human nature. That is exactly what I am getting at.

Shadowslight: Thanks for sharing your perspective. It definitely has made look at things in a different way. A lot of people will benefit from these ideas. Definitely, I feel this will apply to me receiving oral as well. That is definitely a piece of the puzzle that is missing for me = being a more active participant. I'll likely get to experience something of this nature. My girlfriend is very much into acting and we have both already discussed the very real possibility of role play. To open my mind to this sort of artistic expression of sexuality will be a challenge for sure. If there is anywhere I would be comfortable doing something like that, it would indeed be in the bedroom jimthzz, You are very correct. I tend to focus very much on what I have to work with. Especially when that something tastes like smooth sweet honey. Honestly though you are right. I am definitely making an effort to look at the bigger picture at the moment. Will provide a quick update in a minute that should provide decent analytical corroborating evidence of that =D I definitely won't make that mistake. A womans orgasm is very unique to her. I'd suspect most women are quite capable of varying degrees of freakiness when it comes to sounds and thrashing about at the point of orgasm.

Have you told her you love her. You said you express your love. Just need clarification on that. Seems plausible to me that she is legitimately having trouble committing to you. Could you elaborate on the stress factors in her life. Could also elaborate on the depression issue? Has that happened before. Does she have a genetic proclivity toward depression? The approach a lot of us may take in help you with this is to try to extract as much information about her and about your relationship as possible....since your main objective is to understand why right now. May be a tough thing to answer if she remains closed up about it. Good that you don't seem to be pressuring her. Bad that she is not showing interest in satisfying your needs. I'd imagine your whole intimate life is suffering due to lack of sex at this point. Like apple is suggesting....very likely she is having some problem she is just withholding the info from you. Tough to guess at it. Best chance at success may be to have patience, wait it out and do everything you can to be a good b/f....darn it there I go proposing solution.

Aussie, Thanks for posting that. This issue matters to me primarily because I care about pleasing my partner and I don't want her to feel the need to fake orgasms with me. While that may serve a decent purpose in some relationships, I want the best for ours. And I don't think that is likely to be the case if she feels the need to fake orgasms. I am not a religious person. I do not have blind faith in anything. I try to form opinions based on reason and based on the experiences I have with a partner. My goals in life revolve around seeking happiness for me and those around me. Funny you bring up the issue of cheating. It is quite possible I don't have a jealous bone in my body. If by happenchance, I discovered a partner cheating on me, I would likely not react in any violent or overly emotional way. If a partner chooses to cheat on me, that is ultimately not in my full control. It is her decision. I'd be more than happy if my girlfriend went to clubs as often as she liked to and talked or danced with any number of guys if she so chooses. So far in 2 months, I have gone to the movies with a female friend once. My g/f trusted me, but not without verification. Once she was convinced I wasn't attracted to this girl, she more or less let the issue slide (a picture could have proved the point but so far has been unnecessary). When she talked about it, she was very cautious in asking me questions, but at the same time direct in the sense that she needed to know if this girl mattered to me more than as a friend. Trust, but only with verification. In the two months I have been with her, we obviously haven't been in bed the whole time. I know a lot about her religious upbringing and her strong family values. In short, I have noticed no indication that she might cheat on me and so far every indication that she would indeed be faithful. So if anything, we have built trust in that part of the relationship based on learning each other (how our minds work, our morals, our ethics, upbringing etc) and based on having spent real time in a exclusive relationship together. Similarly, I intend over time to build the same level of trust in the orgasm department (by learning everything about her body and mind wrt to sex that I can) and by allowing enough time to pass to build that trust. So, no I don' t go into a sexual relationship and immediately blindly trust a partner not to fake an orgasm, especially when there are quite a few signs that it may not be real. If I had maybe 10-15 good clues that my girlfriend was cheating on me and only her word that she wasn't, I'd be pretty foolish and naive not to question things, now wouldn't I (especially if I had only been with her occasionally for 2 months)? But please do not assume that just because I don't trust my g/f in some areas that I somehow distrust her or that there is any rational reason why our relationship should eventually wither and die based on my approach. I only doubt a SO when I am given good reason to doubt. Keep in mind I have read quite a few stories about how women have faked with men for years. I have also been with at least one partner that admitted doing it. I hardly think the best approach for a man to take would be to sit back and be oblivious. Blindly trusting a partner without paying attention to everything about her where it matters itself is doomed to fail imo! That doesn't help either partner and is likely part of the cause of the problem. Of course I hope my g/f orgasms are real. But from what I have to go on now, I am biased in the other direction. I have her word that they are real, but every other indication that they may not be. There is no reason that I need to draw a stubborn unyielding conclusion just yet. I can take all the time I need to observe. With time and patience many things become clear.

applepie Interesting comparison. If a guy correctly assesses that you have faked, you get embarrassed. You get to the point of not wanting to sleep with him if it is real however and he blunders by coming to the wrong conclusion. I tend to think my g/f might react similarly, hence why I don't think I will put any direct questions to her. I am patient and I need a lot more time with her anyway. Even assuming she is faking, she may get to the point where she doesn't feel she needs to. That is what I am aiming for anyhow. In any event, applepie. As long as you have time to explain to your partner how your orgasm works and he is patient enough and a good listener, there should be no need for accusations. And if he wasn't so persistent or you were a bit more directive in some ways (like speaking up when it gets boring) you might not even need to bother with faking or wouldn't need to do it often at all. I suspect this is another way of interpreting what she is doing and likely quite accurate. One difference between she and I is that I think she expects to go from nothing to everything in one night. It happens to take me time to get comfortable with a new partner and I simply don't have expectations for the first time or even the first several times I have sex with a woman. She very definitely did and does. I think it is hard for her to understand me in some ways given our very different approach to first times. She literally went from nothing more than light pecks on the lips and massages (me giving her massages) to wanting to do full out intercourse in one night. That will make a lot of people nervous, hehe.

I think it would be pretty hot actually if she squirted. Come to think of it, if she peed, that could be pretty hot too. I definitely don't mind that there is a chance....kind of looking forward to the possibility.

She was definitely nervous but not b/c I went down on her. She was tight and sex would have hurt her pretty bad that night I think. One finger worked okay for the first few inches but when she wanted to try two, she couldn't take it. It was just too tight. Nerves definitely play a role. Oral is one of the few things I can do when with a new partner that doesn't make me nervous. You and I have so very different views. I feel nothing but pure pleasure going down on a woman. I could stay down there all day if she let me. When you are with someone who truly loves to do it, it is tough to justify being uncomfortable given time!

I think this is very possible. I did what I could to let her know that everything I did was enjoyable to me (trying not to put any pressure on her). Long before this I also let her know that it was very normal for a woman not to be able to orgasm easily and that I too have problems orgasming sometimes. Nothing to feel bad about. But I do think she pretty much misinterpreted what I was doing. She perhaps linked my alacrity and willingness to give her oral to an expectation to achieve an orgasm. She may have assumed I am largely reward driven, with the reward being orgasm. I don't think she yet understands that it can be pleasurable for both of us and can go on for quite awhile even if she doesn't achieve orgasm. So after some time, when I didn't stop pleasuring her down there and 'give up', she may have felt the need to fake an orgasm fearing the consequences if she didn't. Definitely NOT my intention, but I think that is what happened both times if I had to make a guess. I tend to very much lose track of time down there but I'd say I was going for maybe 10-20 minutes the first time. I was too happy to care =D My g/f already has a tough time believing that I give her massages purely b/c I like to please her physically and emotionally. She is very happy with me and wants everything to go well. wrt to experience, I think she got the impression that I have more experience than I actually do. I think we cleared that up briefly last night though. I definitely will take your advice and won't focus on the experience aspect though overall in the bedroom we may be pretty much on par. It would make me nervous if a more experienced partner kept focusing on that aspect!

She specifically stated that she hasn't had oral sex performed on her very much in her life and that she is 'inexperienced' with it (her words). I know coming out and stating that I think she may be faking is a massive assumption. But given the experience I have had with her thus far, I think it would be an equally massive assumption to state that what she is experiencing is real. More time for observation, learning, exploring, etc etc is very definitely needed. Do you agree? I am not expecting my current g/f to have orgasms like my other g/f's have in the past. But it would be crazy not to suspect some similarities! There is no sensitivity at all afterwards. No increase in fluid at all. No flushing at all. Funky timing. No pulsation at all after the orgasm. No goose bump. No shaking or obvious weakness afterwards. Makes me at least start to question things. So far she has also been unwilling to give me any details on how she achieves orgasm or what the orgasms are like for her. I am more than willing to wait though and give her a chance to let me in on how her body works. it will take time. There are several good reasons why she might have faked the first couple of times. All heresay, but the pieces do fit together.

We worked with that very briefly last night. I found her gspot fairly quickly and gentle stimulation started to feel pretty good to her. Then she felt the need to pee which we both agreed was a good sign that we had found the right area. However, she wasn't interested in continuing for fear of actually peeing.Next time I will do the usual and suggest she go before we start the gspot if she still has the fear of peeing. I also think a really good gspot orgasm is probably the way to go with it next. I am not going to pressure her but if I let her know that stimulating her like that really turns me on, I doubt she will have any problems letting me have fun down there.

God may have created me. Someone else may have made me. But whoever put my bony butt together forgot to include a very big ego. I am however, doing my best to learn not to make assumptions. I am not much of an expert on anything. It is true that many women fake orgasms. It is also true that a fair number admit to doing it, sometimes all the time. So in the interest of being unbiased, I definitely do not assume her orgasms are real. Neither do I assume they are fake. All I have to go on now is very limited information. By taking more time, observing and learning, I will likely increase my certainly one way or the other. I am also not the curious type that has to know in the next ten minutes for sure if these first two orgasms were real or not. The only person in this world who can know if her first two orgasms were real is her and her alone. For the record, I am fully aware that many people do not shave or trim before performing oral sex. Many don't shower either. And I 100% agree that is beside the point. There is no need to ask her outside the bedroom. She claimed and stated directly that she had an orgasm. So basically she either had an orgasm or lied about it directly. I hope you understand that it is not possible to assume she did have an orgasm. I simply don't have any evidence that indicates what she experienced was real. I definitely gently asked her what techniques felt best to her and very tactfully let her know that I wanted to do what is possible to make sure she experienced as much pleasure as she can. I mean that and am very much a giver in the bedroom. That will always be my focus. And if it appears as scrutiny, then so be it.

Aussie, I take almost the exact approach that you do. When I get a signal like that or any signal that clearly says NO, I back off further than most. If my hands go somewhere she isn't ready for, I don't go back to making out and dry humping. The moment it happens I would probably kiss her and hold her but go ahead and let my own arousal die. I might suggest a movie or change the subject and have a conversation about something else for awhile. The next time I would keep it to kissing. I'd put all the passion I have into something a step or two back (like kissing) showing that I am anything but desparate and have a good amount of self control/can respect boundaries. Basically I tell her non-verbally that if she gives an indication of no, that I won't move forward until she gives some sort of a green light. I'd always be a gentleman with her and definitely wouldn't show any negative emotion because she backed off. Neither would I push it any further however.In practice, this approach has always worked fine for me. I don't think things slow down as a result of doing it this way.

Keep in mind I have been in bed with her no more than about 2-3 hours in aggregate over a two day period. That is the full extent of our sexual experience together. I am glad some of you brought up the technique issue. She doesn't have as much experience receiving oral as I do giving it (she wasn't aware of the need to trim/shave or to wash all the soap off afterwards). She did get some pleasure from it prior to her fake orgasm, that is for sure. Her technique consists of basically moving her hips in a very haphazard and completely unpredictable albeit rapid manner. In that situation, I improvised by using either a flat, soft wide tongue or a pointed tongue. It was difficult to maintain contact at times. I pretty much stayed still while she moved. There was very little in the way of licking that I was able to do past that point. On our second attempt at cunnilingus, I am fairly certain that I did not maintain the right sort of contact with her clit. The timing was completely off and there was no buildup whatsoever. As long as she is willing, I am fully confident in my ability to help her achieve orgasm. Between the two of us, I have a few little bullet vibes, a bigger massage unit, and she has some vibes and dildos. I also suspect I can help her reach a gspot orgasm using manual stimulation. Part of the problem for me is that watching her fake orgasms takes some of the fun out of our experience together. In a lot of ways it is a big let down. It is also not fun to know that she already has it in her mind that she is going to fake an orgasm. As far as I can tell, I haven't given her any indication that I have an ego or that my pleasure is somehow dependent on her ability to orgasm. Nor have I done anything to discourage her from orgasming. Further, I find it odd that she can be so brazen as to fake an orgasm through oral with so little experience on the receiving end of things. That is the hardest way to fake since you are right there to notice all the signs! I have definitely read some good info on cunnilingus techniques (3 books and have used several websites/forums with excellent info and suggestions). There are many things I'd like to explore and try with her. I have also been fortunate enough to sleep with women who knew their bodies inside and out and were fully willing to teach me how to bring them to orgasm orally. I learned more from experience than from anything else. It made all the reading I had done make sense. Bella Donna I am definitely concerned that a direct approach won't produce good results. I very much think she will get defensive and embarrassed. It wouldn't surprise me if she lied about it directly if I confront her directly. Perhaps a good approach is to ease off the oral for awhile and use it mainly as a quick part of foreplay. We haven't had actual intercourse. I know I can do a lot also with manual stimulation of her gspot also. I'll definitely let you all know how this weekend goes. I am very curious to see what sort of behavior she exhibits when we have actual sex and when I try different techniques. I suspect she will fake an orgasm, but I am going to try my darndest not to assume anything and come at it with a clear open mind and just enjoy myself. In short, I know I can sit on this a week or two and learn a lot more.

My girlfriend and I have just started being sexually active this past week. So far I have gone down on her twice. I believe she is establishing a pattern of faking her orgasms from the get-go. Outside of her moaning, I am having trouble identifying any physiological or psychological signs that she is actually having a real orgasm. With other women I have slept with, I am used to seeing at least some physical signs of orgasm. I also usually have a pretty good intuitive feel for how she is building up to orgasm. Typically it takes some work and technique on my part. Psychologically, there seem to be several indicators that she is in fact faking. Prior to this, she has mentioned that she doesn't orgasm very easily (a vibrator works fine from what I understand though). I assured her that was normal and didn't put any pressure on her to orgasm at all. I just made it clear that I was happy and I wanted us both to enjoy the experience. If anything, I'd have to say it puts a damper on the mood. I feel somewhat disappointed that I think this is happening and found the actual experience lame. I also think she is establishing what could be a very long-term pattern. How would you handle this situation? Many times when the woman has always faked but wants to stop, people suggest her gradually slowing down her orgasms to the point where she eventually learns or only does it when they are real. So far I have been pretty indirect about my approach. I tend to think telling her would break trust. I am hoping she will get the hint indirectly and will get to a point where she is comfortable being honest with me and to where we can explore our bodies and learn from each other (a concept I have definitley bought up to her). Thoughts? I am doing my best not to assume anything here though it is pretty obvious I do have a bias toward thinking she is faking it. While I admit that it is possible she is having a real orgasm, given the entirety of our experiences together so far, it is exceedingly difficult for me to find any sort of indicator leading me to think they are real.