This totally pisses me off......

[valiantv]

I'd just like to add that men and women are different, and it's a good thing too...

If they weren't then 75% of the world's stand-up comedians would go out of business...

 

Seriously tho, I've never known a guy to leave porn out in front of his sig other unless it had been establisehd that she didn't mind it...

And I do hear women using "I'm a woman, that's what we do" or "Women are like that" as explanations for questionable behaviour...

[Scout]

I have read all your responses to the OP and my goodness... you did TOTALLY miss her point.

 

I was thinking the same thing. To the OP, I too have read even here on eNotalone that "all guys are interested in is sex" (from male posters), I've seen COUNTLESS posts on here from women who when they object to their partner's viewing porn, they always hasten to add that they feel bad because they "understand that's what guys do" and so on.

 

Yes, there is a tendency (by both genders) to chalk up loutish, sexual objectifying behavior as "that's just how guys are." And certain elements of popular culture propogate this belief, too, like that program "The Man Show."

 

Luckily, there are many, many men who don't subscribe to either this kind of behavior or these types of excuses for it, and yeah, they do resent being lumped in with the ones who do. In fact, I saw a post from a male poster on eNotalone the other day that said all men care about are looks. Another male poster immediately responded, "Hey man, don't tar the rest of us with your brush."

 

So, if you are consistently finding yourself with guys who think objectifying women is "ok" and "the norm," then I would agree you should try to date different kinds of guys. Otherwise, your perception is going to continue to be that all men are like this.

[Scout]

And I would also just like to add, that I totally got your point that you felt this kind of behavior being chalked up as a "that's just what guys do" generalization was wrong. Thus, I was surprised to see a few people take the view that you were generalizing.

[n83]

Yes, there is a tendency (by both genders) to chalk up loutish, sexual objectifying behavior as "that's just how guys are." And certain elements of popular culture propogate this belief, too, like that program "The Man Show."

 

Definitely Scout.. I had forgotten about the man show!!!

 

I was surprised to see a few people take the view that you were generalizing

 

I was too!

[DN]

I certainly agree that loutish behaviour is objectionable no matter who engages in it. I sometimes think that there is a general lack of restraint these days in all manner of behaviours and the popular media feeds it with 'reality' shows that glorify the worst rather than the best human traits in either genders.

 

The generalisation issue, for me at least, is when those behaviours are blamed on only one gender.

[n83]

omgosh DN, it is sooooooo not just men.. I think (I hope!!) most of us know that..

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If man thinks it's OK for him to look at porn, check out women and go to strippers... then he shouldn't have a problem with his significant other doing the same.

 

It's a double standard otherwise...

[justpaisley]

I could not agree with you more. I tend to stay away from the posts from girls whose significant others are looking at porn and they have a problem with it, because those girls are ALWAYS greeted with a chorus of "guys look at porn, get over it" and "would you rather he cheated on you," etc.

 

I am wholly offended by that. It assumes that men are creatures helpless to their sexual desires. This is what separates us from animals - our ability to control our sexuality and not hump everything within reach. The whole "boys will be boys" attitude annoys me - especially when the same mantra was used years ago as an excuse for sexual abuse and harassment.

 

I would not tolerate my husband watching porn or going to strip clubs. I find them both to be a form of infidelity and would rather he have respect for me and for our marriage and not participate in either. I also find the pornography industry disgusting. Thankfully, I found and married a man who feels the same way.

[n83]

I could not agree with you more. I tend to stay away from the posts from girls whose significant others are looking at porn and they have a problem with it, because those girls are ALWAYS greeted with a chorus of "guys look at porn, get over it" and "would you rather he cheated on you," etc.

 

yes paisley. this is what I had in mind when I wrote this post ... it is unfair to both men and women. and as for you/your husbands feelings on porn/strip clubs etc, well it's awesome you have someone that agrees with you

[Batya33]

What often happens is that women are attracted to "macho" men or with a streak of "bad boy" - they like the thrill of that but don't want to put up wiht what goes with that - typically, with some exceptions, those types of men are very visual, have a high sex drive and are more likely to go for porn, strip clubs, etc. Ask most women what turns them on more - a man who is macho/a little bad boy vs. a man who would love nothing more than to go shopping with them and watch chick flicks. Of course there is a middle ground but I think there are cases where women perpetuate this behavior by reinforcing it.

 

As for me, I am somewhere in the middle. I do believe men are more visual so I don't mind if my boyfriend occasionally goes to a strip club in connection with a bachelor party (I trust him and most of his friends wouldn't be into that sort of thing anyway). He is never, ever rude to me in the ways you described. He is very masculine, very interested in sex with me but completely respectful in the way he behaves. I am sure he is like that with his friends too because they are like that too but frankly, what I don't know can't hurt me and if he wants to admire an attractive woman when I'm not around that's totally fine - don't ask don't tell. I trust him.

[BillyJean714]

When I read your post, I did't think it was your intentions to generalize at all.

 

You made a pretty accurate observation. In fact, when men talk like that, they are the ones who set themselves for up generalizations. Not to mention the fact that they're trying to make you feel stupid or inferior for not *knowing*.

 

Let's be real here, tons of women have heard what you heard, "Oh, cuz I'mma guy, and that's how it goes, duh!" even if those guys aren't their boyfriends. It doesn't matter. Fact is, it's a pretty common excuse women hear. But, there are also some very decent guys out there who don't go around talking like that. Nor do they act like that. I guess it really depends.

 

I like cherish guys who are a bit more conservative when it comes to these things. That's how I am, and that's what I look for in a *dream man*!

[DN]

I think the generalisation part that annoys me is that it seems perfectly fine in some people's opinion for women to be offended by the fact that some men like porn and for them to criticise men for it but don't also criticise women who look at it and enjoy it. Or who go to male strip clubs and enjoy that.

 

The generalisation is that it is only men who like it and should be criticised for it.

 

The fact that the percentages of either gender who like it may be different is irrelevant. The behaviour is no different.

[doyathink]

n83, I also understand what you are saying, no I don't believe you were 'generalizing' so to speak! You said 'men' instead of 'some men' and that is where it gets heated around here.

 

I have to say I totally agree with your original post...

[n83]

OK so I was thinking of this post again because there was an episode of That 70's Show that was on a few days ago .. and Donna's character got mad at Eric for looking at porn, but by the end she forgave him becasue she knows he's a guy ... and that's what guys do................. ugh

 

anyways i'm very happy most people seem to be understanding what I was trying to say .. I hope you all realize how unfair it is to both men and women for everyone to assume that men are subjagated slaves to their sex drives.

[Baby Carrot]

You just sound so bitter whenever you remember that thing about "That's what guys do".

 

OK, so it bothers you, and many guys you know act like that. How many guys you know, 50? 100? 500? 1000? Even if you knew 10.000 guys thats like the .00000000000000001 % of they male population.

 

And how many girls you know? 3.000, 10.000? Even if that was the case, u still can't define all the female population point of view by your personal experiences.

 

Seems to me you just keep getting angry at an absurd stereotype noone can really measure or prove, and you are extending it to ALL guys and ALL girls, with all due respect, thats absurd.

 

Make a global poll -global as in, all over the world-, and when you get the results, then talk about things like "most guys" and "most girls".

[n83]

According to your logic, no one can make inferences based on their own personal observations without strict statistical global-level analysis. I'm sorry, should I use easier words? Okay, here goes:

 

Wow. You sound really angry. Go away.

[miserableme]

I don't have a problem with it. I don't mind watching a bit of porn. I've even gone and seen male strippers. I think people need to stop worrying about other people and just do what suits them. In my opinion, it's no different to having fantasies inside your head. Guys are more visually stimulated, girls are more mentally stimulated.

 

If you don't want to be with a guy that watches porn, don't! There are plenty of guys who are not like that.

 

As for the lap dance thing. No man who respects you will go and get a lap dance from a stripper. Avoid them if this bothers you.

[n83]

Guys are more visually stimulated, girls are more mentally stimulated.

 

This is exactly the assumption I am trying to avoid. It is not true. We know scientifically that this is not true; women get just as aroused as men do when "visually" stimulated. This is also true for all people (men and women both) who claim that they derive no pleasure from viewing pornographic or erotic stimuli.

[Cardinal]

I can honestly say I do not recall hearing the excuse from a man that, "I am a guy that is what I do" in reference to staring at women in front of his SO. From where I come from it is always disrespectful to oogle at other women in front of women you care about. But in the same breath it is considered acceptable to look at other times. I personally find that to be true regardless of sex or sexual orientation. It also doesn't matter who is more responsive to visual stimuli imo.

 

I personally see nothing wrong at all for a man or a woman to stare at others and be turned on by doing so. It is our actions which define us. If we did more than look, i.e. kiss, have sex with, take a lap dance from etc, I would consider it cheating unless it was okayed ahead of time.

 

I have made many generalizations about relationships and each one of them has come back to bite me in the a.ss. Common experiences you can draw from are great and so are the wide range of analytical tools we have at our disposal, but it sure can be tough to defend a position based on sweeping generalizations.

 

If you want to state something as fact, you are pretty much going to need to show some solid research backing it. Otherwise it falls closer to the realm of opinion than anything. And opinions are very easily challenged

 

I am trying unsuccessfully to avoid generalizations. It is tough to do!

[n83]

Back to the discussion of generalizations??

 

For future reference: Anyone who is going to post about generalizations needs to read EVERYTHING written in this thread. It's tiring to keep going back to the same thing over and over again ...

[Scout]

This is exactly the assumption I am trying to avoid. It is not true. We know scientifically that this is not true; women get just as aroused as men do when "visually" stimulated. This is also true for all people (men and women both) who claim that they derive no pleasure from viewing pornographic or erotic stimuli.

 

I know, I see that assumption said on eNotalone even a lot. And I agree with you that it's not true. Yet people fall back on it a lot...you'll hear that assumption brought up whenever some girl complains that her boyfriend constantly checks out other women.

[Scout]

Back to the discussion of generalizations??

 

For future reference: Anyone who is going to post about generalizations needs to read EVERYTHING written in this thread. It's tiring to keep going back to the same thing over and over again ...

 

Well, you've got at least a few people who get what your point is.

[melrich]

Men, how would you men feel if your girlfriend were getting lap dances from hot guys that you didn't know, copping a feel, and then telling you that "we're women, we're just into sex and that's what we do!" ?? Why is this considered acceptable?!?!

 

This is the problem I have with this thread. Where, in here or in the real world has anyone said it is OK for a man in a relationship to get a lapdance and have his genitals stroked because he is a man.

 

I have never seen anyone say it in eNotalone. I have never heard anyone say it in real life.

 

My guess is that 99% plus of men would acknowledge that such behaviour in a relationship is wrong. I am wondering who are all the men that think this is OK behaviour?

[n83]

Melrich -

It sounds ridiculous, and it is. But seriously, I have heard this a lot ... many women I know have heard this ... you'll even hear it on TV and see it pop up in popular culture. It is absurd and stupid yet it is for some reason seen as accepted. I think in general, the people on here are more LIKELY to be less accepting of such behavior (getting a lapdance etc..) so you may not see anyone saying it is acceptable, on ENA... but you would be surprised how many times you hear this type of comment

[n83]

Well, you've got at least a few people who get what your point is.

 

Hahaha Scout, I'm holding on by a thread here!!