tired of waiting- want to be engaged/married!

[annie24]

Another good point that was brought up.... I don't remember by whom.... maybe if he drags his heels on *everything*, perhaps he just won't be a good life partner and match for you.

 

There is never any right time to go back to school, have kids, or buy a home. Things are always difficult, but sometimes, you just have to jump on and go for it, you know?

 

I guess I could have waited 5 years to buy my first home, instead of doing it now, and yes, it is financially a burden to me at times, but I hate the thought of wasting money on rent for the next 5 years, when it could have been going into a mortgage, you know?

 

I guess life is just about taking risks and chances and there is no need to have "all your ducks in a row" to undertake some ventures. I see so many of my grad student classmates around me getting married. Yes, they are dirt poor, and don't own homes, have student debts and are not finished with their educations, but I guess they found someone they love, that they get along with well, and don't want to risk having them slip away!

[annie24]

I think Batya is right on in saying that my problem is I sometimes don't want to accept his reasons. Who wants to accept any reason after 8 years? But he accepted these reasons from me earlier, and now I should accept them from him.

 

well, don't you want children? I mean, you don't have forever to wait. I don't think you owe another 8 years of your life to him if having children is an important life goal to you.

[aymee_lee]

It sounds like most people are suggesting that anydaynow leave her partner. That seems to be the most common thought amongst this thread. And having read through all of the posts, I can see the arguments from both sides. Yes, 8 years is a long time to wait, and whatever it is that the b/f is looking for seems quite hazy. However, anydaynow, only YOU know what it is like to be in this relationship, so if YOU believe that your b/f will propose and come through with the goods, then maybe he will. We don't really know. One thing I would say though, is that while you have been together 8 years, a lot of those years were spent at school and how many of those years were you really in a position to get married? I don't want to start a whole other debate, I'm just making a point that 8 years for one couple and 8 years for another couple might be totally different.

 

I have good friends who have been together for almost 5 years and just got engaged. And yet many people believe that it is way too young for them to be making that step- why? Because he just turned 21 and she is 22. So when I tell people that my friends are engaged after 5 years they go 'oh yeah, 5 years, that's normal' but when I tell them that my 21 and 22 year old friends are engaged most people are like 'oh my God, that's way too young'. But everyone is different.

 

I'm not telling you what you should do, advice is great but only you can make that decision, all I'm saying is, that while you've been together for 8 years, you probably haven't been in a position to realisitically get engaged for that long, so maybe it's not as bad as it seems.

 

All in all, if you think you can handle waiting until he's ready, then great. If not, I guess you have some big decisions to make. Good Luck.

[RayKay]

Annie is right, my situation is not to do with either of us NOT wanting to get married. Both of us would do so right now if we could afford for me to go back to Law school, but we can't. We have a house, bills, and so on. I really need student loans or I cannot afford to go back, and if I am married, my student loans will not be able to cover even part of my tuition.

 

As a result, we are waiting to get married. However, it is also possible we may get married before I am done school if I can get a scholarship for example, and we may also get engaged much earlier than when I am done school. In that aspect it is flexible. We both would love to do it now, as my mother is ill and I would love for her to see me get married to my partner whom she adores, but unless I win the lottery we can't as I do need to go back to school.

 

The difference for us too is we have been together less than 2 years. Not 8.

 

I have no worries about him dragging his heels when it comes time, I also know he will want to surprise the heck out of me when he does it.

 

Look, if you want to wait longer, go ahead. But you have already said you aren't happy with the situation, and that is why people are posting her because they can SEE you are not happy with it. You already probably DO have niggling doubts in your gut it will happen or you would not be posting. Sometimes our gut tries to tell us someone we don't want to really hear.

 

I just question how "perfect" things have to be before he ever marries you. Because the truth is, it will NEVER be "perfect". And a career takes a LIFETIME to build. Sure, you wanted to wait until you were done school initially, but it's been 6 years now since that. If he is going to let your family's finances put him off for that long, or always feel like he has to "compete", I just wonder how badly HE wants to marry you.

[kellbell]

"and if I am married, my student loans will not be able to cover even part of my tuition."

 

"The difference for us too is we have been together less than 2 years. Not 8."

 

This is why I wrote that your situation bores no resemblence to RayKay's.

 

"And a career takes a LIFETIME to build."

 

RayKay is 100% correct. Hence the term "career." It can be thought of as a lifetime commintment. No one is ever going to be completely "prepared" for marriage, you can line all your ducks but you will not know for sure until happens. But lining up ducks and so forth should be a TEAM effort in my opinion, working together to build your future together. Not keep you hanging in the rafters all this time until HE is ready.

 

I truly hope you get the result you want. I hope we did not scare you away, I would love to know how things pan out. Take care.

[anydaynow]

not to worry, you haven't scared me away. I do feel a little like you are ganging up on me, but I know this is not the intention. I assume everyone is here to share experiences, give advice and support. You are all doing a wonderful job.

 

I know I sound completely desperate, totally out of options, ready to call it quits in earlier posts. This is why forums are hard, because nobody knows the entire story. I can be a drama queen sometimes. Honestly, in comes in waves, one day I'll be okay with waiting, and one day I can't wait! I think that might be apparent in my previous posts.

 

The fact is, we do both want to get married. He loves to talk about it when I'm not in nagging mode, actually. (Lately, it's all be nagging mode, which is why it's been a problem) I think the main issue I've been able to hammer out here is that he thinks there is a right time, and I do not.

 

As for the career taking a lifetime to build and such.... It's much easier to say he is working on his career, because it tends to sound more concrete than "he is working on his self-worth." This sounds very very abstract, but, like I said before, it is a job in the field, or schooling in the field. Those are more concrete things. When he has that, he will be ready. And, yes, he knows what field that is. Of the first 2-3 years of this waiting (that started after I finished school) it was an issue of figuring out what that field was. Now it is an issue of getting into the field.

 

It's hard to compare this to things like buying a house. Condos in decent locations where I live easily go for 800K. I'm living rent free. It makes more sense for me to save up.

 

I think someone asked about how long I was in school. It was the first 4 years of the relationship.

 

You guys are hitting the nail on the head though, about him needing to realize that, like kids, it's just a plunge you take. We've talked about the house and the money and have decided kids are something we want pretty soon after getting married (w/in 1 year), regardless of our financial situation. We are great budgeters and very resourceful and know we will be able to handle it. He just needs to start thinking the same way about marriage.

 

He recognizes that he has a hard time making decisions, and is working on "satisficing." Meaning, taking the satisfactory option is okay. While I don't think people should satisfice much in who they want to be with, they can in other areas. I sometimes think that marriage is compromising on the what, when, where, and how because both are unwilling to compromise on who. Satisficing is okay for choosing an entree or a pair of jeans. And it sounds stupid, but that is stuff he is working on!

 

Seriously, guys, even though I'm hearing a lot of advice I will not take, I really do appreciate everyones input. Another thing my boyfriend has taught me- try not to be so defensive (I'm still working on this, as you can see) and take things in stride.

[Batya33]

It sounds to me like at this point he is not emotionally available for a marital commitment - much less a commitment to parent a child.

 

Maybe that is the key - if he wants to work on himself so much that he cannot commit to you, maybe the thing to do is for him to work on himself - by himself - and see what it is like not to have you in his life as his cheerleader.

 

Sorry to sound like a broken record but you are not his first priority at this point. If you were, you would be engaged with a wedding date. His first priority is to find his self-worth and that includes the selfish request that you wait around for some indeterminate amount of time until he is satisfied that he "found himself." Do NOT be surprised that once he finds himself and with that, builds self-confidence - that he will go for the pretty young thing he meets in connection with his brand new career and marry her in 6 months flat. Worst case scenario, I know but I have seen it happen. You will be the one who was his emotional bandaid, who stood by him, who knew him when, but Pretty Young Thing will only know him as the confident successful man.

 

Think about it and think about whether you can be that Pretty Young Thing by saying - "I love you - I hear that you want to work on yourself - please go do so and when you are satisfied call me. If at that time I am still available and interested we can talk about getting engaged."

[anydaynow]

I think we are getting a little too far deep into analysis of what my boyfriend's emotional availabilities and capabilities are. It feels a little ridiculous to have to explain him to a bunch of strangers, but I guess things can get carried away in forums and I should really have expected this, since there is no way for you to know how emotionally available he is. I am sure he is very emotionally available. Plus, I've seen plenty of emotionally unavailble guys get married. And they end up divorced. Emotional availability and marriage can occur exclusively of each other. Which is to say (like in my case) that emotional availability can still occur while marriage has not yet occurred.

 

And, not to toot my own horn, but whose to say that I'm not that pretty young thing that he wants! (Because I am, FYI!)

[rms8]

anydaynow:

 

The only good advice I can give is to talk with your guy but don't attack him or try to control him. Explain how much an engagement would mean to you and how you want to start your married life (kids, etc.). Reassure him that you don't need to get married next month but an engagement would just solidify your relationship. Since you've said many times that you've both talked about getting married, it's not an issue of whether he wants to or not obviously. He worried that getting married will pull the brakes on his career. He shouldn't be and you need to explain that to him. Tell him how a ring is just a ring but it means a lot to you and you promise it won't affect his job. By making it official doesn't mean wedding plans and such need to start immediately (which might be what he thinks will weigh him down career-wise).

 

Basically, all I'm saying is sit down and have an honest discussion about your feelings and how much you want to understand and respect his feelings. Try not to sound like your trying to force him into something but just explain what you want out of your relationship.

 

Sorry if this is vague or what you've been doing all along but it's always worth another shot, right? Good luck.

[anydaynow]

aymee_lee-

 

Thanks for your post. This is more the kind of stuff I expected to see here. But I know posting here, you have to assume everyone will fill in the gaps you left the way they want to.

 

I really believe he will come through with this. It was agreed on that we would not get engaged while I was in school. That was the first 4 years. Then it was agreed by both that it would not happen for at least ~3 years, because he was working on his career. The tension has really only been for the last year.

 

We talk about it a lot, and we started to talk about it too much, which only exacerbated the situation. I think it's time for me to back off. I know he will do this, he just needs to do it on his own terms.

 

People think I'm settling by waiting, but I'm not. I'd be settling if I decided to be with someone else.

[Beyondthesea]

People think I'm settling by waiting, but I'm not. I'd be settling if I decided to be with someone else.

 

Well if that's the case, then wait. But I certainly wouldn't expect any miracles hon, he doesn't sound like he's ready.

 

If he's really the one for you, you'll know sooner than later I hope~

[annie24]

sorry - I'm not trying to gang up on you, I hope no one here is! Just we are concerned, that is all. I think we all agree that 8 years earns you a right to be a bit impatient and wondering what is going on!

 

Ultimately, it's your life and your decision. Whether or not you marry him doesn't affect my life at all, so do whatever.

 

Did you ever read the book, "he's just not that into you" if you haven't you should. I think it should be required reading for all women!

 

I think this thread has been good in that you have been really thinking about the situation, and if it is working for you. he could just not want to marry you, or he could be trying to get so prepared, that his whole life is just passing him by. that is a bad quality in a life partner, if you are more of a go-getter. your married life with him may be one huge struggle, when you want to have kids and buy a house, go on a big vacation, and he just keeps saying, "not now, next year, when my career is going better...."

 

but, ultimately, it's up to you to weigh the pros and cons of the relationship, decide if you want to keep the status quo, if you can tolerate it, and how much longer.

 

While he is special, don't forget that you are special too, and worthy of being happy too, with the marriage and family and all! Don't sacrifice your happiness for his. If you get to the point where marriage isn't looking like it's going to happen, I hope you leave and find someone with a more similar outlook on life as yours.

 

On one hand, there are a lot of committment phobic people out there. But on the other hand, there are a lot of people (men included!) who have no intention on letting the right person slip away. And I would classify not putting a ring on your finger after 8 years as him not trying to hard to keep you from meeting someone else who might sweep you away from him.

 

Maybe he hasn't proposed because he knows you're not going anywhere?

[PittItaliano]

Ok, I would give him a time frame. Like he has 6 more months, or one more years (or however long you are willing to wait) to figure out what he wants from the relationship, or to propose. I'd tell him that it's been 8 years, and if the two of you can't be engaged within *x amount of time* then you can't wait any longer. You can't wait you're whole life for this guy. And it sounds like he's taking you for granted.

[RayKay]

Agreed with Annie.

 

We really aren't ganging up on you. I can just say I have seen your situation MANY times over in my friends. One of them waits every year for that proposal to happen, every holiday she sees others get engaged, and she doesn't. He tells her all the same things that it WILL happen "one day" when this is settled, or this is accomplished, he does this or that. And it's always something new. First career, than salary, then enough to buy this house, this wedding. It's been 10 years of this. Guess what? She has realized it is NEVER going to happen. Is she okay with that.....I think she has just given up really and is too scared to go off on her own.

 

On the other side, that friend I mentioned earlier whom was the guy postponing it for 10 years finally ended it with his girlfriend. He kept telling her he would marry her, again the same though, there was always a reason not to do it "yet". He wanted to start a new job, move, buy a house....he actually told me later he realized he was always doing that as deep down he did NOT want to make that commitment. He KNEW something was missing and she was not right one.

 

I hope that latter is NOT you. But either way, in my experience if someone seems to be postponing it continously, it will be the same even if he does get engaged/marry you...only then it will be with children, etc.

 

What have the people on hiscoldfeet told you? I visit there, and I have my guesses there responses were not to wait forever either, and to have a "end date" of sorts for him to meet, or you leave. While sometimes they have a lot of bias from wanting their own situation to work out, a lot of them are correct when it comes to taking a stand and not waiting forever.

[anydaynow]

I think hiscoldfeet may be a little to optimistic and it doesn't address the issues of relationships that aren't going to work, marriage or not. It's basically saying, if there is tension around this issue, it may be completely normal. Key word - may.

 

I really do believe that my situation will work out. We have just had another talk about this. Yes, after I promised him and myself I would not bring it up! But we had the conversation because he brought it up. He said he really thinks that we are good together, we are a good team, and he knows if issues should ever come up, like this one, we can work on them and figure it out, just like we've been able to in the past. I told him I didn't want to force him into anything because 1) nobody likes being forced into doing something and 2) I don't want to end up with a ring on my finger if it is only because I would not shut up about it! He told me, at this point, it's going to be hard to surprise me, which he semi-wanted to do. (I say semi, because how surprised could a gal be if her beau of 8 years finally proposed?!) Which is true, and this is why I must keep quiet about it and let it come naturally. He admitted that it has been too long. But he now realizes that what he is waiting for is 1) hard to define and 2) likely may never occur. And so he will not wait for that anymore.

 

So why not right this minute? Because of the stress in our relationship that it has caused lately. We both don't want for this, when it finally happens, to be born out of a situation laced with negativity. I know it's going to happen, and I'm okay with waiting a little longer for it.

[Beyondthesea]

what he is waiting for is 1) hard to define and 2) likely may never occur. And so he will not wait for that anymore.

 

At least he realizes that.

[Batya33]

But in your friends' case, it is the children who suffer as it is known that children who are raised by two people who are not legally committed to each other are at much greater risk of financial and emotional instability. In addition, the role model for the children is that it's ok to have children outside of a marriage - that might be a fine role model for some, but I would think twice. Don't children deserve a two parent home where the parents are married to each other if at all possible?

[saltwatergirl]

I bypassed a few pages so forgive me if I am speaking about something already settled.

 

I would say 8 years is way too long to have let this go on. THere are few times when issuing an ultimatum is a good idea, but I do think this is one of those times. I'd issue it, and if it doesnt pan out, I'd leave.

 

And now, he has found a way to make the wait be due to the 'current stress" of your asking....outstanding! Now it's your fault! Now he has bought himself even more time, and managed to shift the blame for that onto you. This is ridiculus.

 

Salt

[Siriana]

Look this guy is not telling you the whole truth. The fact is that making career is something you need to do when you're married also. If you can't do that in marriage than you're in the wrong marriage with the wrong person.

So I really don't know what is he thinking: like I will marry you one day when I become CEO and than I guess he would say we should get married when I retire because I am way tooo busy now.

 

The only important thing is that you want to get married and to have a family and he doesn't yet. So after a good talk with him that desn't allow him to give you the the answer that is not setting a real period of time when he will be ready for marriage you have 2 choices: be one of those girls who give up on the wedding because of him (stupid thing to do - don't give up your dreams because of someone) or you need to leave him and find someone who's ready for that obligation.

Give this guy of yours a time limit - like a year to propose you-and tell him that, if nothing happens leave.

[anydaynow]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I appreciate them all. It's so nice that so many people here care to put their word in. What a great community.

 

My boyfriend and I are in a good place right now, eagerly anticipating our future together while also enjoying the present. We both realized things that we would not have (or at least not as soon) if not for your insight and support.

 

Thanks again, everyone!

[anydaynow]

I know lots of people come to these forums and look for advice on similar situations to their own. I did this myself before finally starting a thread about my situation. I just wanted to add one last post for anyone that finds this thread and wonders what happened.

 

I posted the outcome in a separate thread on the LTR/Marriage board shortly after the proposal. Then today I realized that someone reading my old thread (this thread) for advice wouldn't see the outcome.

 

Anyway, the outcome is that we are engaged, it was a huge surprise, and we have set a date and we are getting married in the near future! Planning for our little ceremony is in full swing, and we are working through some pre-marriage homework together to ensure that the wonderful relationship we have had continues and grows through our years of marriage.

 

How it finally got to this point, I don't really know. I've asked him what he was thinking; what finally led him to pop the questions. He can't tell me much other than it suddenly felt like the right time. He admitted that he had this feeling before, that the timing suddenly felt right, but something in his life changed and it threw his plans off. He was thinking about going back to school the last time it felt right, about a year before the proposal finally happened. Like I said many times before, we had many conversations about it, and we were in agreement that marriage and family were things we wanted with one another. It was just the timing that we had to synchronize. Of course, other than my gut feelings, there was no sure way for me (or anyone in my situation) to know what was really going to happen. I can say that I must have felt sure that it was going to happen, felt that he was being sincere in his words and promises, especially since the feelings were so strong, even after people opened my eyes to the possibility of a less than perfect outcome. People can say all day that they know that their relationship is headed for xyz, but nothing is for sure until the moment it happens.