tired of waiting- want to be engaged/married!

[anydaynow]

Oh, money isn't a issue. We both believe in marriage first before sharing anything financially (except the occasional meal or weekend away). We both know each other's financial histories and credit scores and such. We really are getting our homework done, so when the time comes to merge monies and buy things together (and we believe all things that were 2 become only 1), there will be no surprises.

[kellbell]

I do recommed that book "He Is Just Not That Into You." The book contains a whole chapter on marriage.

 

But there are MANY nice guys out there, does not mean they are all willing to committ for a lifetime. Nice is not always enough. Just keep that in mind.

 

Soon? What that mean. That is a relative term. I truly hope you guys can come up with a solution.

[RayKay]

8 years is WAY more than enough time for him, and you, to both know whether you want to get married, and be planning for that if you do.

 

I can see not wanting to get married while you were in school, depending on your situation. I for example really require student loan money. If I am married or officially common law (we live together but are not yet common law for a while longer) my loans would be severely affected and reduced due to his income. However, he has his own loans, mortgage and so forth and can't exactly hand over money to me for tuition and living expenses! Though I am not opposed to a long engagement.

 

I would suggest as others have this is more than the career issue. I think that may be a manifest or a "symptom" or an excuse, but it's not the core issue. Not for 8 years at least!

 

I would suggest you talk to him again, and then set yourself a deadline in your mind (not an ultimatum you give him, just one for you). For example if he says "I will propose within 6 months", set yourself a deadline. If nothing in 6 months, you break it off. I think the bigger issue too is even if he feels pressure to propose (and really, you never want to pressure someone...I have seen that happen, and honestly, even after the engagement their still is hesitiation, or even after the wedding the one whom was pressured is wanting a divorce as they were "forced" into it) and does propose, he may not want to set a date.

 

There is never a RIGHT time to do it. Sure there are times circumstances are not right (like my student loan issue) but there can still be plans to overcome those ultimately.

 

He is being wishy washy, and I am not sure why, but it is not a positive thing. He knows though he can do it as you have dealt with it for years already.

[Beyondthesea]

I honestly hope you will too.

 

I read that book "he's just not that into you," and I really suggest you do too. I read it more for a man's input on a variety of issues not because I was feeling that way at the time.

 

Pick it up and read it. Reality is sometimes the best medicine.

 

But be sure to ask yourself: how much longer are you willing to wait? That's the real question. I really wouldn't wait too much longer, unless you're willing to be together 12 years and then one of you walks.

 

Point overall: if you are ready for commitment, if you are ready for marriage, if you are ready for children...you might be ready, but that doesn't mean he is.

[Meow18]

Well, we hope to hear good news!

 

Anyways, there is this couple that lives accross the street from my grandparents. They have been together for 10 years, but aren't married. However, they have 2 children together. And they are living together. The reason that they aren't married is because he hasn't been ready to take that step, and probably never will. But yet he's willing to have kids with her! I know it's not your situation, but it's just something I thought I would share.

 

I guess I just wanted to share that with you.. your boyfriend isn't the only one who just can't go through with a wedding.

 

It's good that you are talking to him. But you deserve a better response than "the next step will happen soon". When is soon? Next year? 2 years from now? Another 4 years?

 

You are right though.. if he's a good guy, then you are lucky. But it's also important that you are happy and you have the same goals, otherwise you might end up resenting him..

[RayKay]

I would not entirely listen to everything said on hiscoldfeet. There are some whom are not much happier now that they are married, and their husbands still pull the same stunts. If you are going to listen, listen to those whom finally realized they were going to be strung along forever.

 

Marriage happens long before there is a ring and vows. It's a decision in the heart and mind. And if it's not there, it won't be there even after the ring. Even great guys, whom seem perfect, may not ever be ready to take that next step. Or feel as enthusiastic as you do.

 

He may be a great guy, you may get along great, but even so it does not entirely mean HE is ready to get married or is sure.

 

One of my friends was with his gf for 10 years, he "thought" he should get married, he cared/loved her. But he had niggling doubts. He thought he would propose. Instead, he broke it off. I think that really was the right thing. If after 10 years, you still aren't sure, it's NOT the right thing to do.

 

There are lots of people whom never get married, and that is fine too as long as they BOTH want that same thing. My mother & stepfather have been together 20 years and chose not to get married together. But if one of you does, and one does not, that is a problem. Having common goals is important, and neither of you should feel forced to give up your "dream" for the relationship. That only causes resentment.

[Beyondthesea]

Marriage happens long before there is a ring and vows. It's a decision in the heart and mind. And if it's not there, it won't be there even after the ring.

 

Agree 100%. There was something very different (good different about the relationship my fiance & I share. We were 'married' already and he talked openly about it with me, that's how I knew we were very committed to each other.

 

In a relationship like I have now, I would have waited 3 years tops. I've been in longer relationship before, and I was so focused on marriage, that I lost sight of that the relationship wasn't good and we weren't clicking the way we should. Hope that's not the same for you.

[kellbell]

"I've been in longer relationship before, and I was so focused on marriage, that I lost sight of that the relationship wasn't good and we weren't clicking the way we should."

 

I the same thing in my last relationship which lasted 4 years. I was so focused on getting married because we were together so long, lived together, pressures from others, and it just seemed to be the next logical step. WRONG WRONG reasons to get married. We were very wrong for one another anyway. I hope too this is not the case in your relationship.

[RayKay]

Marriage happens long before there is a ring and vows. It's a decision in the heart and mind. And if it's not there, it won't be there even after the ring.

 

Agree 100%. There was something very different (good different about the relationship my fiance & I share. We were 'married' already and he talked openly about it with me, that's how I knew we were very committed to each other.

 

In a relationship like I have now, I would have waited 3 years tops. I've been in longer relationship before, and I was so focused on marriage, that I lost sight of that the relationship wasn't good and we weren't clicking the way we should. Hope that's not the same for you.

 

Yup, same here. My boyfriend and I are definitely committed to one another for the long haul, and plan our goals, dreams, lives together. The reason it is not official is due to schooling (maybe I will get some big bursaries or something which can help..lol). I never doubt for a second he is committed!

 

Because of our situation, we will have to wait longer, but marriage is not the only "goal". We have many goals and dreams together, that we can look forward to and plan together, and marriage will just be one of those of the many.

 

I just think it is sad when I see people waiting years on a "thread of hope" that it will happen one day, when there is no action to indicate so. It's different if their is action. One of my coworkers has been hoping for 10 years on every holiday it would happen. She has just given up. Though she stays with him as she now feels too old I think to find someone else (she isn't).

[Batya33]

It sounds like the two of you have incompatible values. He values finding his self-worth through his career before being married and you value placing a priority on marriage over whether both of you are in the careers you want to be in. Neither of you is wrong - it's just incompatible.

 

Here is what I would do. Tell him nicely and sweetly that you want no contact for the next three months other than a 15 minute conversation on the first Saturday morning of each month (something like that) to "check in" - you will not date anyone else for that three months. He can contact you prior to the three months only if there is a ring and a date. He can contact you after the three months only if there is a ring and a date or if he decides not to continue the relationship. This is not meant to play a game - this is to get time apart and see if you miss each other and if so, how much.

[anydaynow]

We are definitely together for the right reasons. And the marriage and committment before actually doing it, I think is there. That is why it is frustrating that we aren't going through with it yet. RayKays reason "because of school" is just as valid as his "because I need to sort out my career." Our friends even say "oh, you guys are practically married." Which is funny because we live 3 hours away from each other. Yet our relationship functions as a marriage would. Marriage for both of us means merging lives completely, and we are both ready to do so. Neither one of us sees a fundamental change in levels of commitment to each other because of marriage. We want the same things in the future. Living together and having children before marriage is not something that we want to do. I am not against it, I have plenty of friends that have children and live with their boyfriends. I don't think any less of them because they are not married, but it is not something that we personally want to pursue until we are married. This is the whole thing with the "buying the cow" or whatever the statement is. Those guys that are living w/ their girlfriends and already have kids do not need to "buy the cow." My boyfriend wants very much to get married and have children (him more than me, did I already say that?), but it is really hard for him to get past the fact that everyone in my immediate and extend family have major overacheiving issues and great success in careers. All my many cousins and their spouses have extremely lucrative careers. I myself am making more money now than I thought would be possible at this point in my career. He felt inadequate because he does not make money, and it took him a while to get over this. Now he needs to get over the fact that his dream career, the one he will be passionate about, might need to play second fiddle to me. That isn't very fair, but that is what everyone here is saying.

[Batya33]

Here's the thing - since you won't have children unless you're married or buy a house together then by definition you both see marriage - the legal status - as highly significant and a significant distinction from your status now. Of course I understand that people need to wait to tie the knot for all sorts of external reasons. The problem here is that there is a part of you that doesn't fully accept his "reasons" - if you did, you would be fine with the status quo and secure that it would happen whenever it happens.

 

To be harsh - it sounds like your boyfriend is a whiner. So what if your family is full of overachievers - hasn't that been true from the moment he met you and hasn't he known that for most of the 8 years? It doesn't take 8 years to deal with an "issue" like that - you either know or you don't within a reasonable amount of time after you learn about the issue whether you can deal with it or not.

 

Bottom line - his dream of a career is more important than his dream of being with you - if that weren't the case he would do his dream career as a hobby, or delay doing it until after you had grown children, or one of a number of alternatives. I don't judge him for wanting a low paying career I am just observing that that is a more important priority for him now than marriage. He has known for years that you would be the major breadwinner so .. how much longer does he need to decide whether that issue is a dealbreaker?

[RayKay]

Well said by Batya.

 

Seriously though honey, it does not take 8 years, you know?

 

The difference between my situation and yours is we AGREED together to our situation and our plans, and there is a finite end to them (ie when no longer need my student loans). We are both happy and comfortable with how we are "defined" I suppose as a couple and have made plans together for the future.

 

In your situation, you are not happy, there is no finite end (after 4-5 years, how much longer does he need to get his career "settled"? How much longer than 8 years does he need to get "over" the fact you and your family are successful?) Why can't you be part of that journey as his wife? As partners you are supposed to support and nourish one another TOGETHER.

 

In marriage there will be many tough circumstances too - pregnancy, possible job losses, illness in you, him or a child...and so on. How is he going to deal with THOSE? Ask for a divorce to take his "time"?

[RayKay]

That whole "buy the cow" thing in my opinion is kind of a silly saying in my opinion anyway.

 

If a guy does not want to marry you, he won't want to whether you live together or not. If he does, he will want to and do so whether you live together or not.

 

There are also many couples whom jointly CHOOSE not to get married, it has nothing to do with not wanting to "buy the cow". We aren't cows, we are supposed to be partners in the relationship.

 

While I am sure he loves you, you have to also look at the chance he may NEVER be ready to marry you. And if so, are you ready to live the rest of your life 3 hours apart and "like a married couple"? Or are you willing to lose him to pursue being with someone whom DOES want to get married? These are things you have to look at, if nothing changes in the near future. You are still young, but you have already spent 8 years with this man and still not sure of the future, don't spend another 8.

[kellbell]

Anyday,

 

I am sorry but Betya33's observations are dead on. It does not take nearly a DECADE to sort all this out. Even if there is a lot to sort out, this should be sorted out as a TEAM. Not with you on one side and him on the other. You both have not made any agreements together on when these things are supposed to take place and now resentments are seeping through.

 

He is putting his career aspirations BEFORE you. This is something you should be working on TOGETHER. And RayKay's situation bares no resemblence to yours. I am so sorry.

[Meow18]

It's obvious you and your boyfriend have a great relationship. I mean, you do not put 8 years into a person if you don't really love them.

 

But that's not the issue here. The issue it that you are not happy with his response to getting married. He keeps saying "soon", but soon means different things to everyone. It's such a vague response.

 

You deserve a better response than that. Seriously, after 8 years, you deserve something better than that.

 

You are lucky you have a great guy. And in no way are we saying you should break up with him just because he hasn't married you yet. But if after this long, he still has excuses not to get married, then something needs to be done about it. You aren't happy not knowing what will become of you both.

[kellbell]

RayKay,

 

I think she may have been referring to my earlier post with the comment...

 

"why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"

 

I am so sorry but many many people live by this notion, especially when it comes to co-habitating and evading the prospect of marriage.

[RayKay]

RayKay,

 

I think she may have been referring to my earlier post with the comment...

 

"why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"

 

I am so sorry but many many people live by this notion, especially when it comes to co-habitating and evading the prospect of marriage.

 

 

Ah okay, I am not saying many DON'T, but I am saying I think that when a man really wants to marry you - he will. Whether you live together or not. At least, I have seen it many times.

 

But I agree also many use it to "evade" prospect of marriage, which is why I called the statement into question. Because those whom legitimately want to get married, don't go around saying it!

 

It all depends on why you live together though. If you move in with goal of marriage (together!), it happens. If you move in as one wants a test drive and one wants to save on rent....less likely it will!

[anydaynow]

Well, an agreement at one point can turn at another. We did agree at 4 years that it would be 3-4 years before he might be set with a career. After about two years, he said "well, maybe I don't need to be set with the career, maybe I can just be on a pretty sure path to one." So he's slowly letting his expectations of where he needs to be before we get married change. We are getting closer and closer. The closer you get, the harder it is to wait, it seems! It's like missing a passing score by 20 points- oh well, you totally missed it. Missing by 1 point? Killer.

 

Nobody can tell the future, which of course is the big issue here. Nobody knows that in x years when RayKay's schooling is done if they really will get engaged. Of course, if you ask RayKay, she will tell you they are 100% committed and for sure they will get married. That is what I was saying 2 years ago, 4 years ago, 6 years ago. And after much thought, I'll still say it.

 

I know it seems I am saying different things if you read through all my posts here. I posted here because my darling bf was sick of hearing it, which was understandable. But I was also sick of waiting, undoubtly, also understandable.

 

I don't think it is fair to say that he values career over me. I didn't want to marry him when we knew 2 years into it because of my career. He patiently waited. When he decided that he wasn't happy with his, I owed it to him to give him a chance to get that settled, like he did for me, right? Ask him and he'll tell you that if there is one thing he is sure about, it is me.

 

I think Batya is right on in saying that my problem is I sometimes don't want to accept his reasons. Who wants to accept any reason after 8 years? But he accepted these reasons from me earlier, and now I should accept them from him.

 

I hope I don't sound too defensive. I can't help but be a little seeing as how I've decided to stick around against nearly everyone's advice here. But, seriously, keep it coming. I was on your side (this is ridiculous, I have to leave) for a while and feeling that I need to refute it now is very telling. I know you are trying to give me the best advice, and advice can only be so good with the bits of information I can provide. Everything I've said here is such a small fraction of the last 8 years, and an even smaller fraction of the next 60-70, depending on how long we both live...

[novaseeker]

Ultimately it's something only you can decide. Most people would not agree with the eight year and counting situation, but only you can decide whether under all the facts and circumstances, you want to continue to wait. All we can do is tell you how it looks from where we are sitting ... only you can really make the call based on how it looks and feels from where you are situated.

[stolenshadow]

Hello, I went through something similar so let me tell you what I think.

 

It's really hard to let go of something that looks made for us, there are no fights, no big disagreements, no insults, just "something" that's not right, and we think it's only small, it's selfish, we want commitment, the other person is with us, what else do we need?, we feel like we ask too much, the other person means no harm, and they have waited for us in the past, why can't we just wait a bit more?, if we are not patient we can end up giving up the best thing we had, so we are ready to make sacrifices for the relationship and we ignore ourselves, we say "It's not so bad", but a relationship doesn't has to be bad or violent or humiliating to be wrong for us, if the other person is not going the same way we want to go, why pretend it's not happening?.

 

Based on the current situation it's highly possible this guy is not going to marry you, it's also an issue that you seem concerned with "putting pressure" on him to do it, as if you knew marriage is something your boyfriend is not really interested in doing.

So, your options are leaving or staying, I can only tell you that leaving will be difficult, thoughts of "I should give in a little/I should rescue what was perfect" will appear almost every day for a long time, it's common to look back, idealize, minimize our fears, and confuse ourselves with the pro's and con's of the relationship, and once you get past that, what happens?, you realize that you walked away when you had to, that you didn't leave a marvellous relationship, you left something that didn't have much time left.

 

There are always plans, dreams and hopes, but it's important to accept which won't be happening anymore so you can start building new ones.

 

You will know when you had enough, and when/if that happens don't listen to those saying you don't deserve everything, don't believe you left the best in the past, what you want and need is important.

Settling is never healthy but if you decide to stay with him make sure you are happy.

[melrich]

I think this is spot on in terms of your b/f's state of mind.

 

You know where there is disconnect here? It's in what he thinks marriage means and what you think it means.

 

Don't talk to him about getting married and when it's going to happen. Ask him what marriage means to him. What are his expectations of marriage. What does he see as his ideal partner. That may flush out teh issues. Approach this from the angle, not head on.

 

Your b/f's problem is not getting his career right, that is just what he has turned the issue into in his head. You have to find out what his issue is (refer quote above) and then work out if it is ever going to happen.

 

Personally, from the little I know, I don't think it will. He will play brinkmanship for as long as he can with you but ultimately he is afraid to step over the line.

[Batya33]

Sounds like the career issues are apples and oranges as between the two of you - sounds like you had a specific career goal that required some sort of schooling, such that you knew pretty much when you'd be done. My parents married right after my mother finished college and my dad finished grad school - they were engaged for 5 years previous to that, knowing that they would get married once they were done with school. With your boyfriend it is far more open ended - a moving target - neither of you know when his career will be stable enough such that he is ready for marriage. And this works to his advantage - if he wants to delay the decision he can always change what he means by "stable" in his career.

[annie24]

I think in RayKay's case... the reason for delaying is to do with the student loan calculations - not wanting to get engaged until her school is coming to an end, and she does not need more loans. Her bf and I are from a similar culture, and very very short engagements are common for us. Actually, my parents dated for 4 weeks, got engaged, then got married the next weekend! It all worked out. My dad was 48 when he first got married. I'm sure that some of his ex-gfs just thought he was a committment-phobe (like some of the ladies on hiscoldfeet may say), but afterwards, it just seemed obvious he was waiting for the right person.

 

However, if RayKay's boyfriend is dragging his heels after her education is done, I'm sure that she will have something to say to him!

 

However, "when my career is set" is such a ....flakey deadline. Your career is always growing, always progressing. There really is no real right time to get married. "He's just not that into you" points that fact out. There is always something difficult or financially challenging in life going on, but people get married anyways, which is evidenced by the fact that there are so many "priests, florists, and taffetta makers out there" (to quote the book!)

 

Anyways..... like batya said, you wouldn't have posted if you didn't feel something was amiss. We're just telling you to listen to your instincts.

[annie24]

if he wants to delay the decision he can always change what he means by "stable" in his career.

 

exactly. what is stable? is it just getting a job? or getting a union job from which he cannot get fired? or getting his first promotion at work? or making over $50,000 a year? what is the benchmark for stability? have you discussed that with him? What if it keeps changing?

 

All I know is, I always thought everything would be ok once I finished with my undergrad. Then, once I got into grad school, I thought everything would be ok once I got accepted into a lab. Then I thought everything would be stable after I finished my classes and started officially working on my dissertation.... now I feel like I won't be stable until I have my first author publication.... etc. My standard for "stable" and successful is always increasing, I guess as it should be! But honestly, I don't think I'll ever feel stable until I retire!!!