Strong fantasies of disappearing every time I feel too vulnerable

[NighttimeNightmare]

.

Getting stumped with this one and could use some guidance, trying to gain some skillset I clearly don’t have here.  This is my first time having a connection with someone where we’re mutually sharing feelings about how behaviors affect one another and then making conscious efforts to change the behavior.  I’m responsible for communicating and not stonewalling people, which I’ve historically done, but I’m having mixed feelings about it. 

 

with that said: I’m in a situation with a woman and we’ve connected pretty deeply (yes.. it’s the same woman, for those of you who were around for that.). However, lately I’ve realized the closer we get, the more issues pop up. Nothing major, just run of the mill things from being around another person so much. It’s easy for me to point out what she’s done, but when she does it to me I feel this is all too much and I don’t want someone knowing me in these ways, where they can see what’s “wrong,” and then I have to fix it. In the year of knowing her, it’s really only happened maybe 5 times.  So it’s not often, but to me, the occasions are prominent because they take so much out of me. 

I’m a historical stonewaller, but now I know better, and I’ve pushed myself to the point of being honest about my feelings. ie: being able to tell her when she’s hurt me, and speaking up, and she’s been very validating and caring in regards to my feelings there, but even that is becoming too much… it’s tiring. I don’t want to communicate these things. It’s easier to just shrug and disappear. I feel weird that I’ve revealed she’s “hurt me” or that she’s done something to rub me the wrong way, and I just want to end the connection.  I wish I could go back to my elusive state. I feel many different things, burdensome is one… “too much” is another… it’s easier when needs are irrelevant but apparently that’s the wrong way to connect. 

 

 

However, it’s as though in my effort to connect, I have bouts of feeling disconnected; closeness feels odd to me when I don’t have control. I feel more connected in my avoidance, but this person is good at not letting me retreat (edit: I don’t mean she follows me around and forces me to talk, I mean she’s been this amazingly safe presence for me to come to her with things and letting me know when I’m shutting down because I don’t realize I am. She’s never forced me to talk etc)  , so here I am.  Still, I have fantasies about “running away.” Like that I need to do something unpredictable to throw her off.   I feel a strong urge to leave this place, to not return for months. Granted, it’s not unusual as I do normally travel a lot. But, I’m slowly realizing that my lifestyle of travel and being with disordered women who didn’t press for communication, only strengthened my own issues. Oddly enough, with this particular woman, a few times we’ve discussed our issues I did feel very close and safe, the vulnerability made me feel close. But it feels as though I can’t maintain that congruently. So it’s a toss up as to which one of those emotions take over: safety vs urge to run. The more safe I have felt with her, the more likely it is I’m tipped off into the fantasies. 

 

 

I don’t really understand what I’m supposed to feel or think. What do healthier people resort to in these situations? Surely it’s not running away. What does it feel like? I feel like throwing the baby out with the bath water and I’m half-expecting her to do the same. What do these situations look like in the minds of people who don’t feel safety in distance? 

[yogacat]

You're ambivalent. I'm often asked what it's like for "healthier" people who are ok now, have no fleas, and don't process things using fear but I inevitably end up taken aback at how difficult an exercise it would be to take the current mentality and cognitive processing out of someone given how layered it is.

Well, this is a perfect example of that..

You feel vulnerable because you've removed a layer and this person is reacting just like any normal person would. This is something you are not used to.

It's easier for you to retreat and stonewall, but now you have someone who is not letting you. So you're struggling with the urge to run and the urge to stay and maintain this connection. 

This person is not trying to control you or invade your space. At the same time, I can understand that it might be a bit exhausting to constantly be communicating about feelings and behaviors. It's something that you need to ease into and get used to as it can be a big change for someone who is used to avoiding confrontation and communication.

[Wiseman2]

16 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 we’re mutually sharing feelings about how behaviors affect one another and then making conscious efforts to change the behavior. I’m responsible for communicating and not stonewalling people, which I’ve historically done, but I’m having mixed feelings about it.

Please try to be yourself rather than overcompensating and getting on the over sharing bandwagon. Trust your instincts. If over sharing is uncomfortable, there's a reason.

Your frontal cortex and executive functioning is designed for editing, not jumping on trends that insist everyone let everything all hang out. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/speaking-in-tongues/202309/too-much-information

[Batya33]

I think this is pretty basic- many couples have different boundaries and approaches when it comes to sharing feelings including timing/context/choosing battles so to speak.  and I think it's essential if the couple is going to get along to respect these differences. 

I mean -isn't it also typical that men and women have gendered differences in how/when -if! - they express feelings? That need not be an issue if there is mutual respect for different approaches to sharing feelings.

Yes extremes on either end can be - always stonewalling or constantly having to talk and talk and talk about Feelings and The Relationship -can be exhausting - but I think if you recognize your tendency to stonewall that's good enough - and I don't see why it's necessary to tell her every time she's hurt you - I mean choose your battles. 

Sure if it's a big deal to you and you'll sulk and feel resentful or mopey for more than let's say -a day or two -might need to bring it up especially if it's an issue that is likely to recur.  And it's totally fine to tell her "thanks for encouraging me to tell you every time I feel "hurt" but can we agree that you'll trust me to tell you if it's something that needs to be addressed? 

Also why do you need your feelings "validated" for every "hurt" - I'm just not getting a sense that she's hurt you badly.  And if she has- and it's a regular thing that seems to keep happening consider why you are in a relationship where that is happening?

Also sounds like she's playing therapist - and it's a challenge -hmmmm he's a stonewaller -he admitted it -well I'm gonna get him to share alllll his feelings even if it feels icky!

[LootieTootie]

So you say she doesn't let you retreat. Is it because you need to retreat to sort yourself out, you need to retreat because the emotional toil of it all is too much for you, she is forcing you to talk, etc.?

I am a big believer that when someone is ready to talk, they will talk. It just sounds like you are not ready to talk about things that weighs heavily on you and even when you open up, it doesn't seem like you're lighter from sharing. Maybe you are not ready to share?

 

[rainbowsandroses]

NN, I'm trying to imagine what it is you're actually feeling when you open up about feelings, get too close emotionally and feel vulnerable?

Do you feel turned off?  Is that why you feel the need to distance or disappear?

My response will depend on your answer. 

[smackie9]

Try a different way to cope, instead of stonewalling, walk away for 20 mins, then circle back refreshed and relaxed. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

Maybe it’s the way I type on here but again… let me try to explain myself more before this gets taken out of context 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please try to be yourself rather than overcompensating and getting on the over sharing bandwagon. Trust your instincts. If over sharing is uncomfortable, there's a reason.

I have a history of abusing women and stonewalling them. I’ve been opened about that on this board. So for me, It feels normal to not share, anything, ever, at all.  Things that feel normal and safe for healthier people, are things I thought were “weak” or “stupid.”  So now I’m trying to speak up and be vulnerable, and that’s scary. My instinct is to dismiss peoples needs, including my own. That isn’t normal! It’s not healthy, so I’m willing to try to navigate these new feelings of being vulnerable and being willing to speak up when I feel things.  Honestly, this is a good thing for me  

 

33 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes extremes on either end can be - always stonewalling or constantly having to talk and talk and talk about Feelings and The Relationship -can be exhausting - but I think if you recognize your tendency to stonewall that's good enough - and I don't see why it's necessary to tell her every time she's hurt you - I mean choose your battles. 

I think in extremes. I feel in extremes. But what I do know is I’ve never tried to talk about my feelings with anyone. I thought it made sense to just not feel and then never communicate beyond that.  So yes I do recognize I’m a historical stonewaller and while I’m not bringing up things that have hurt me every 5 seconds, nor is she, it still feels extreme to me. Like I said in my post.. it’s only happened maybe 5x in a year. But to me it feels extreme and little things feel very big and exhausting for me 

33 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

And it's totally fine to tell her "thanks for encouraging me to tell you every time I feel "hurt"

This isn’t happening lol.  I just meant that I’m able to express myself with her, other people ive been close with in the past, that wasn’t allowed. I just was saying it’s there, I can bring things up at my discretion if I feel it necessary. But that alone is exhausting to me. 
 

33 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Also why do you need your feelings "validated" for every "hurt" - I'm just not getting a sense that she's hurt you badly.

It’s not for every hurt. And you’re right, she hasn’t really hurt me in any big sense. Like I said in my post, it’s mundane run of the mill type of things. There’s no abuse going on, no hitting below the belt etc. it’s just that the fact I’m making myself vulnerable, little things feel very extreme in my world. This is all too foreign for me. That’s why my here trying to obtain some new tools 

33 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Also sounds like she's playing therapist - and it's a challenge -hmmmm he's a stonewaller -he admitted it -well I'm gonna get him to share alllll his feelings even if it feels icky!

She’s not playing therapist. We don’t have conversations like that, nor have I told her anything about me being a stonewaller. She’s never been controlling or otherwise has she attempted to prompt me to sit down and have routine conversations and “share” or “feelings”. Lmao. This has never happened 

here’s an example of what happens. Recently she told me my coming across as controlling and a bit narcissistic and that it’s a hard boundary for her.  I said ok, please let me know when I’m behaving like that and I’ll nip it in the bud. 
 

Convo over.  The end.  
 

my issue is, now im realizing we’ve gotten too close to the point she’s picking up in this and has the potential to tell me about it. Now I have to be aware of it and try to fix it as to not abuse yet another person

 

that’s what I mean by it’s tiring.  I’m tired within myself  it’s really nothing she’s done  

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

7 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

NN, I'm trying to imagine what it is you're actually feeling when you open up about feelings, get too close emotionally and feel vulnerable?

Do you feel turned off?  Is that why you feel the need to distance or disappear?

My response will depend on your answer. 

To add:

That said, I think she's wrong to not allow you to retreat when you need to.  This is normal especially for men in my experience but some women need to also.

I do!  And it's been difficult for my boyfriends to understand.

It's especially true after we've gotten particularly close and spent a significant amount of time together.

But if I don't take some space, I will begin to feel suffocated, boxed in and turned off. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

You feel vulnerable because you've removed a layer and this person is reacting just like any normal person would. This is something you are not used to.

Yes, I feel like im missing my armor and I just need to get away. Go to a new city.  Meet new people. Etc

 

1 hour ago, yogacat said:

It's easier for you to retreat and stonewall, but now you have someone who is not letting you. So you're struggling with the urge to run and the urge to stay and maintain this connection.

Yes, but to be clear I wouldn’t say she’s not letting me. I didn’t mean to come across like this person is overbearing and controlling me. What I mean is… if I’ve wronged her in a big way, she will tell me.  And there’s an unspoken expectation that she trusts im telling her if she’s wronged me. She doesn’t want me to hold that in and grow resentment, which aligns with what I’ve learned in therapy. So I try to put in the effort to speak up if she ever does wrong me. 
 

im learning that’s fair. It’s fair of me to bring my hurt to the table. That’s my decision. And so far she’s been so kind with her responses the few times I have done it. It feels healthy and mutual to me. 
 

it doesn’t happen often, but it’s so new for me that it’s almost exhausting. But I try to soothe myself so that yes, I can continue maintaining what feels like a very healthy connection for me.  
 

I know my need to run is not healthy, but again… armor removed.  So what’s it feel like to a more healthy person, you know? Because I’m drawing a blank

[Wiseman2]

Getting stuck in analysis paralysis isn't going to help you relate better to this older lady friend. She's lonely, you're lonely. It's okay to talk about whatever you want to talk about but she's not your therapist or guru.  

You may need to get away and go to a new city, but not because someone encouraged you to over share, but because you're in a strange neither here nor there relationship with this retired lady and hiding from life and real relationships. 

This lady actually is your "armor against equal and real relationships, just like the sugar babies. So you can run but you'll run into the same power struggling. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

11 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

That said, I think she's wrong to not allow you to retreat when you need to. 

This isn’t occurring. I tried to clear this up several times.  This isn’t a situation where I’m going “hey I need space” and the other person is opposed. It’s nothing like that. I just meant that, if say, I’ve done something to hurt her, she’s not an avoider. So she speaks up. I am not used to this, I’m used to people avoiding, not communicating, etc etc So now that someone is wanting to communicate, it’s not as easy for me to retreat to me disordered ways. Does that make sense? 
 

19 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

 

NN, I'm trying to imagine what it is you're actually feeling when you open up about feelings, get too close emotionally and feel vulnerable?

Do you feel turned off?  Is that why you feel the need to distance or disappear?

 

Thank you 

it can be either of those things.  I think when she tells me I’ve hurt her and she’s vulnerable, I feel turned on and close.  It’s only been about 3x that this has happened in a year. And maybe 2x that I’ve been the one to express she’s hurt me. 
 

I guess when I do it I feel turned off. Like… a lot goes through my head like an objection to the fact I feel so much now and I allowed myself to be hurt in some way. Then an annoyance that I know I need to alert that person instead of ignoring them or blocking them out of my life. Then let’s say there’s some delay in her calling or texting me, it turns to anger like I feel angry at the fact I got this close to someone to the point they’re affecting me. 
 

and this only occurs when I actually get hurt. Which is rare.  

[yogacat]

18 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I know my need to run is not healthy, but again… armor removed.  So what’s it feel like to a more healthy person, you know? Because I’m drawing a blank

Maybe a more appropriate way to phrase it would be: what do these situations look like in the minds of people who don't immediately resort to distancing strategies or wanting to run away when conflict or issues arise?

I guess you could say that people can balance their need for autonomy and control with the need for intimacy and connection. Then again, the constant need to work on connection just to grow close enough to get past the constant conflicts would be exhausting as well. 

You're pointing out her flaws and weaknesses and then run away when she does it to you. 

I'm not sure what you're "hurting" each other over but unless it's something that can be reasonably dealt with to where it becomes a one off rather than a constant issue then it's probably not going to work out the way you'd like it too.

[NighttimeNightmare]

6 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Then again, the constant need to work on connection just to grow close enough to get past the constant conflicts would be exhausting as well. 

It’s the other way around for us. It seems we have the connection, it naturally formed, and there seems to be a lot of trust we’ve built up.  Because we spend so much time and have gotten so close, there are a few things that have come up.  There’s no constant conflict, there’s about 5x things have been brought up in the time we’ve known one another. That’s not a lot, or constant, or overwhelming for most people. To me.. it is lol.  
 

9 minutes ago, yogacat said:

You're pointing out her flaws and weaknesses and then run away when she does it to you

Ya but they’re legit things. Like me vocalizing a boundary. Like “hey when you do this thing, I perceive it as such and such, and it’s super hurtful to me so I need you to know that.” Then her response is like “I’m so sorry I didn’t realize it came across like that. I will be more careful going fwd.”  It’s actually a really smooth and quick process, that I think is neat. I realize I trust her with my feelings.  But… do I really want someone to be close enough to discover my flaws and be able to recognize them or be affected by them?  I now have to really take into consideration how my behavior affects people, it’s tiring.  That’s not the same as us having conflict constantly… we actually don’t.  But I do have to be aware of my surroundings when before I didn’t care, I was just a raging @sshole and things were easier 

 

[Batya33]

44 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

here’s an example of what happens. Recently she told me my coming across as controlling and a bit narcissistic and that it’s a hard boundary for her.  I said ok, please let me know when I’m behaving like that and I’ll nip it in the bud. 
 

Convo over.  The end.  

I wouldn't put it all on her to tell you when she perceives you as acting controlling and narcissistic.  By contrast my husband's random whistling or humming along to commercials when I am eating a meal makes me crazy.  He would of course have not known this -he barely knows he's doing it -so it's ok if when he forgets or inadvertently does this I point out that he's doing it and please stop while I'm eating.  He's not thrilled I point it out but he understands it's on me since he does it like a reflex. 

By contrast I don't feel I should ever have to tell him "hey please don't tell me what to do in an arrogant, condescending way."  If it's that extreme he, an adult, should know that's not ok and know how either to prevent it -or -more rarely -apologize and realize he was hangry/stressed and overreacted -we're all human.  I think it's too burdensome to expect her to point this out each time -i get that you had a diagnosis but pusing on to her the task of pointing out extreme behavior like that doesn't seem healthy or sustainable as a relationship dynamic. 

Also if it's only 5 times over -what -a year? why is it such a big deal to you now?

[Batya33]

30 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Then an annoyance that I know I need to alert that person instead of ignoring them or blocking them out of my life. Then let’s say there’s some delay in her calling or texting me, it turns to anger like I feel angry at the fact I got this close to someone to the point they’re affecting me. 

Why are those the only two options? You don't need to alert the person or ignore.  Why can't you resolve some things on your own or with a trusted friend or like go for a run and work out the negative energy and then be with the person in a genuine way. 

[yogacat]

27 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Ya but they’re legit things. Like me vocalizing a boundary. Like “hey when you do this thing, I perceive it as such and such, and it’s super hurtful to me so I need you to know that.” Then her response is like “I’m so sorry I didn’t realize it came across like that. I will be more careful going fwd.”  It’s actually a really smooth and quick process, that I think is neat. I realize I trust her with my feelings.  But… do I really want someone to be close enough to discover my flaws and be able to recognize them or be affected by them?  I now have to really take into consideration how my behavior affects people, it’s tiring.  That’s not the same as us having conflict constantly… we actually don’t.  But I do have to be aware of my surroundings when before I didn’t care, I was just a raging @sshole and things were easier 

Your exchange seems normal and honest etc... But maybe not really wanting to go through this kind of "process". Discovery of flaws and blah. 

Not saying you are but like even if I just how I am made the person in question run or vice versa then that's the natural entropy of things too ya know. You're hesitant to have someone be close to you... but you engage with someone you like so maybe that's just natural right?

So with the question posed, I would say learn from it and see what you figure out then honestly, life is about figuring out poo but it doesn't control either, it's more about an importance of self-control. 

Most people will eventually discover your flaws and imperfections without even trying. Not like it really matters unless you make them a big deal. You're human, they're human. 

[boltnrun]

Have you two decided to be in a committed romantic relationship?

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

.  I think when she tells me I’ve hurt her and she’s vulnerable, I feel turned on and close.  

Because you're together a lot and tried out sexting she had to draw the line and rein it in. This is just good boundaries on her part. 

You seem to have a very complicated relationship with her mostly because you want sexuality included and she just wants the companionship. That could be where your frustration and hurt comes from.  

But it's unclear what that has to do with TMI, vulnerability or being a bull in a china shop as far as others feelings.  She simply knows when to draw the line, maybe that's new to you? 

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Because you're together a lot and tried out sexting she had to draw the line and rein it in

your narrative about my story is weird.  
 

[catfeeder]

6 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Recently she told me my coming across as controlling and a bit narcissistic and that it’s a hard boundary for her.  I said ok, please let me know when I’m behaving like that and I’ll nip it in the bud. 

That's a vague thing to say. Did she give you any examples of what she meant by this?

[Kwothe28]

7 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Recently she told me my coming across as controlling and a bit narcissistic and that it’s a hard boundary for her.  I said ok, please let me know when I’m behaving like that and I’ll nip it in the bud.

But, she is right. You are a narcissist(albeit somebody who is a treated one). This all stems from that issue. That is why your instinct is to stonewall and tells you to go away.

Nevertheless, I don't think it’s important when it’s not progressing anyway. I maybe skipped some chapter so you may correct me on this. But you two are still only friends? Sharing feelings is OK between friends. But in a situation where you have feelings for her and want to be with her and you did not convey that yet, it’s kind of a small issue that you don't share some stuff with her when there are way bigger issues there. At some point this needs to break “status quo” and either make it or break it. And you both seem to be more interested in keeping that status quo then for this to go somewhere.

[kim42]

Have you thought about taking some distance from her and maybe focus on other relationships, not necessarily romantic ones?

I understand that you enjoy your close friendship with her but maybe this could help you.

[catfeeder]

8 hours ago, kim42 said:

Have you thought about taking some distance from her and maybe focus on other relationships, not necessarily romantic ones?

I understand that you enjoy your close friendship with her but maybe this could help you.

Yes! Suffocation is a thing. With everyone who gets too tangled up with someone. That’s less a mental problem than a behavioral one. Your focus needs some liberation. Go make some other friends, and you’ll be surprised how quickly all this navel gazing will change.

[NighttimeNightmare]

10 hours ago, kim42 said:

Have you thought about taking some distance from her and maybe focus on other relationships, not necessarily romantic ones?

I understand that you enjoy your close friendship with her but maybe this could help you.

What makes you think I don’t? This post? This post is a microscope to a small fragment of my life. I’m here to talk about this particular relationship, because it outlines interpersonal patterns I have that I’d like to address.  However, it’s not the only form of contact in my life. I host gatherings twice a month and am active in several meetup groups.  Lol.