How to differentiate between friendship and feelings?

[NighttimeNightmare]

Hello everyone. I need some outside perspective with this one.  This entire situation is completely random and unexpected. 
 

I am in my 30s, I met a woman (who is much older than me) at a local area I visit almost daily. We first met about 6 months ago and struck up a conversation, as we continued running into one another I found her to be incredibly interesting as a person but I didn’t think much of it beyond that. 
 

time went on and we got to talk more and more, when we would walk out to our cars to leave I’d notice everyone would be gone but she and I would still be in the parking lot talking, this would occur almost every evening. I enjoyed the conversation and asked if she wanted to get together one day for lunch. She said yes.  I was happy to have made a friend I enjoyed.  
 

Around this time we started texting each other and it became frequent… daily texts, texts throughout the day, etc. Prior to this we only ever spoke when we would run into each other in person.  Then she started calling me. The first time she called we spoke for 4 hours, midnight rolled around … I had completely lost track of time.  The next night she called again, and again… usually the calls are anywhere from 2-5 hours long and I'm completely fascinated by her the entire time. It’s been 3 years since someone has made me laugh the way she makes me laugh, and I enjoy having her in my life.  
 

Anyway, after these phone marathons I’ve realized i think I feel something for her that is a bit more than friendship, but I don’t know how to determine if she feels the same.  For me, I’m a big believer that men and women can just be friends, and I have several platonic woman friends I’ve never wanted anything more with. I definitely don’t talk to my platonic woman friends this much or in the way I talk to her. So how do I tell if it’s different for her too?

About a week ago I sort of started flirting with her a little bit but I can’t say she flirts with me.  The other day I asked her for some (clothed) photos of her and she lead with sending me ones of her in bikinis when she was my age.  I was vocal about telling her how sexy it was, she made a blush emoji and thanked me.  Now it’s a running joke where I tell her if she’s dressed in a certain attire I’ll come over… she will giggle and jokingly say “stop it,”  but that’s as far as anything has went.  She has been in some pain and last night I asked if she wanted a massage, she declined, so that makes me think it’s just a friendship for her. On the other hand, she’s never pulled back from the amount she calls me or how much we interact in spite of my comments  

 

I’ve cooked dinner for her as a friend, but I’m cooking for her again this weekend only now I’ve developed feelings so it’s different for me.  I don’t want to feel like I’m hiding something, or that I have ulterior motives, but I also don’t want to lose my friendship with her.  However, it’s gotten to the point where the more she calls me and the more I see her… the more I want with her.     It’s very difficult for me to refrain from putting my arm around her or something.  But I really don’t want to ruin the connection. I enjoy her. 
 

Help. Does it sound like she may be interested? 

[SooSad33]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I’ve cooked dinner for her as a friend, but I’m cooking for her again this weekend only now I’ve developed feelings so it’s different for me.  I don’t want to feel like I’m hiding something, or that I have ulterior motives, but I also don’t want to lose my friendship with her.

You can very well risk losing your friendship, should this build into a true involvement- but is a risk we sometimes take 😉 .

I agree, a normal type friendship, one doesn't talk to them for hours on end.

How well do you know her?  Is she recently out of a relationship maybe and is using you as an emotional pillow?  Or has she been single for a good while?

The fact is, is you only know her in this sense.  Just chatting.  Nothing has gone beyond this ( except for a shared photo - and a meal?).

I say, if you're going there again this weekend, maybe at least work on getting closer & see IF she reciprocates. 

It's nice that you two have gotten to know each other well enough on this level.. but can it continue to evolve in a positive?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

  she lead with sending me ones of her in bikinis when she was my age.  I was vocal about telling her how sexy it was, she made a blush emoji and thanked me.  

You're already past the just friends stage because you're flirting and going on dates. So when you invite her for dinner again just make it cosier and more conducive to romance.

[NighttimeNightmare]

15 minutes ago, SooSad33 said:

agree, a normal type friendship, one doesn't talk to them for hours on end.

That’s what I think, the only people I’ve ever spent this much time talking to were gf’s, and the conversations make me feel close to her. She usually calls late and I’m in bed talking to her which, on my end, makes it feel intimate. 

 

17 minutes ago, SooSad33 said:

How well do you know her?  Is she recently out of a relationship maybe and is using you as an emotional pillow?  Or has she been single for a good while?

Well she shares her life history with me during these calls. I can’t say I know her super well, it’s been 6 months of a developing friendship. Definitely don’t get any sort of lonely vibe or being used, at all. She listens to me and seems to take an interest in what I’m actually saying. It’s not a one sided conversation.  We did both recently move to the area, but again, I’m not getting an “I’m lonely, anyone will do” vibe which is part of the reason I like her, she seems very well off emotionally. She’s super outgoing and is really good with people and has a group of women friends she hangs out with routinely.   She’s been single for years. We’ve talked about that, about how chemistry is important, but difficult to find  

 

22 minutes ago, SooSad33 said:

The fact is, is you only know her in this sense.  Just chatting.  Nothing has gone beyond this ( except for a shared photo - and a meal?).

We see eachother almost nightly in person and we are together for about 2 hours. That’s how the friendship developed.  At first we just talked here and there but over time we would look for eachother at the evening venue and it got to the point where others would comment that the two of us were “joined at the hip.”   At that point I just found her fascinating but never thought of it in any sort of romantic sense because of the age difference.   If one of us goes off with another group she usually touches me when she passes by.  Then it developed into it being that she doesn’t go to the venue much unless I’m going to be there. And we leave together. that’s around the time when the phone calls started and I realized I sort of like her. 
 

I’ve put my arm around her shoulder and she put hers around my waist. But that was also before I realized how I felt.  but, nothing sexual has ever happened if that’s what you’re asking.  Me telling her all of those bikini photos were sexy is the closest I’ve been to pushing that line.  And we’ll now I spend time at her house sometimes  

she’s brought me food, I’ve made her dinner.   Everything for me is moreso in the intimacy of those late night phone calls. And if she doesn’t hear from me she has checked in with me daily.  This is why I’m confused. Because she doesn’t seem to try to get sexual with me, but the rest of the behavior seems a bit more than what I’d offer to a friend 

when I’m with her I feel like something more is there and I want to make a move, it’s in the time we spend, the way she looks at me, etc. but is that just in my head? I don’t know 

 

I’d hate to make a move and then I’ve misinterpreted this or she feels she’s lost a friend due to another guy catching feelings… 

[SooSad33]

Yup, I get it.  

So, sounds like she may be warming up slowly. And good on you for taking it slow with her.  But, you see her again this weekend?  I think this is when you need to know how she feels for you.  IF she's really into you this way or not.

If not, she should stop 'leading you on'.  If she doesn't respond to you in the same way soon enough, I'd back off with any expectations.. AND, 

 

6 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I’d hate to make a move and then I’ve misinterpreted this or she feels she’s lost a friend due to another guy catching feelings… 

Are talking in refrerence to yourself here?  That you maybe should not cross that line?  because, yeah, it can happen.. BUT, my gawd, you two have shared meals, a lot of chat time & her pics, lol.

I will add, this is often why guys n gals don't mix well when it comes to a 'true friendship'.  It often happens that one fancies the other a little too much - which affects that friendship, things get messed up & it's done 😕 .

 

Either way, is time you know IF or what this is.

Aim for that this weekend.

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're already past the just friends stage because you're flirting and going on dates. So when you invite her for dinner again just make it cosier and more conducive to romance.

The intention wasn’t a [romantic] date though.  At that time it was just a casual get together so I could get to know her outside of lingering in a parking lot.  I didn’t have any intentions with her beyond just 2 friends continuing the conversations. Same with the initial dinner. 
 

since then, on my end, it has turned into more.  And that’s what I’m trying to figure out - is it more for her too. 
 

or, is she just comfortable with spending so much time for me because I’m not threatening.  ie: I’ve  never had an agenda with her which could have lulled her into a sense of safety with me.  But yea, now I am flirting with her, I’m trying to make it a bit more obvious.  But she doesn’t initiate anything back, she just laughs. 
 

example: I know she goes commando sometimes but told me she did have a bra on, I said “that’s no fun 😏 “ and she laughs. That’s it. 

[Cherylyn]

Have a talk with her.  No sense playing guessing games.  Be direct in a nice way.  Listen to what she says and if feelings are mutual,  take it from there.  If she wants to remain a flirty friend with you,  either accept how she is or it's your decision what you want to do with this type of friendship if it is a friendship,  that is. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, SooSad33 said:

Are talking in refrerence to yourself here?  That you maybe should not cross that line?

Yup. I’ve heard too many times from women their disappointment when a male friend develops feelings. And because she’s not coming onto me in any way (at least by how I’d expect that to look) I don’t want to rock the friendship because I do enjoy her as a person and clearly she enjoys me enough to talk so often. 

 

1 hour ago, SooSad33 said:

If not, she should stop 'leading you on'.  If she doesn't respond to you in the same way soon enough, I'd back off with any expectations

I’ll definitely have to back off because like I said, the natural byproduct of my being around her is lending to my feelings. I’ve tried to stop the feelings multiple times but then we continue talking and they never have went away. I’d have to stop engaging this so much

 

if she were my age I’d think she liked me, honestly.  But in this situation I lean more towards she’s just friendly 

 

the other problem is too that after she showed me the bikini photos I can’t stop having sexual fantasies about her … just being honest  

 

[SooSad33]

2 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I’ve tried to stop the feelings multiple times but then we continue talking and they never have went away. I’d have to stop engaging this so much

Exactly.  is too much, as you realize, this isn't normal.  One doesn't just chat it up continously.

But, are you going to find out IF she's into you this way?  You're talking now like it's a no.

2 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

if she were my age I’d think she liked me, honestly.  But in this situation I lean more towards she’s just friendly 

 

Yup- no more kinky pics! .. Again, is not something just a 'friend' would do.. unless with intent 😉 .

Space now, for sure.. If it's supposed to be a basic friendship.

[Jibralta]

If she's sending you bikini pics of her when she was young, she probably fancies you a little. But she may have the same misgivings that have do about crossing the friendship line. I suggest trying to talk to her about it. There's no reason why a discussion between two mature adults who have been around the block a few times should blow up a friendship. 

[Batya33]

I've had many platonic male friends over the years and no I wouldn't send any of them a bikini type pic. In fact I do send pics to one of my platonic male friends (we met in 1994 in grad school) - they are always vacation pics and if it's just me in the pic without my husband /son  it's me really far away or because it's the only pic of the tourist attraction he wanted to see and I never look "sexy" in the least in those photos.  He sends me similar pics -mostly him and the family etc but again if it's just him nothing "sexy".  

Oh and yes sometimes he'll write "you all look great!" but again nothing that can be misinterpreted or crossing the line.

I think she's into you! At least somewhat.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 I can’t stop having sexual fantasies about her .

You're not going to ruin the friendship because it's obviously already past that. You'll just have to try to relax and enjoy her company. Let things evolve naturally even though you're anxious.  Focus on calming your anxiety. .

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

But, are you going to find out IF she's into you this way?  You're talking now like it's a no.

Mmm well I think what my brain does is it tries to put evidence together based on someone’s behavior and I use that to determine if it’s a yes or no.   But I posted here because I can’t really make a determination 

 

but she didn’t call me two nights ago, last night I was supposed to go to her house but she wasn’t feeling too great so I decided not to, that was when she declined my massage advance.  Then today I’ve barely heard from her… it took her 7 hours to respond to me.   I feel like these things are proof she isn’t feeling it, even if she previously was

 

but maybe another commenter is right and this is my anxiety speaking. Because once I catch feelings for someone i just really don’t want to get hurt or make a fool of myself and now I’m on overdrive 
 

 

[Kwothe28]

7 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

The other day I asked her for some (clothed) photos of her and she lead with sending me ones of her in bikinis when she was my age.

Average man: I cant tell if she likes me.

Woman: Sends him a bikini pics of hers instead of a clothed one he asked.

Average man: Still cant tell.

This is not a jab on you in particular, just that we men are sometimes oblivious about stuff like that. And also that yes, she does like you. Go into offensive mode over that dinner you will have. Give her a compliments in person and maybe even try to touch her a bit to see how she reacts. That should tell you more if you have a pass or not. 

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

but she didn’t call me two nights ago, last night I was supposed to go to her house but she wasn’t feeling too great so I decided not to, that was when she declined my massage advance.  Then today I’ve barely heard from her… it took her 7 hours to respond to me.   I feel like these things are proof she isn’t feeling it, even if she previously was

Well, a minute-by-minute temperature reading isn't useful when it's the overall direction that counts. So I'd back off a bit to learn whether she resumes her contact in a typical way.

If not, I'd consider having zero to lose by reaching out to ask whether she's okay, exactly how a friend would inquire, and possibly learn whether you can run an errand or help in any way.

Beyond that, I'd back off and allow the friendship to resume--or not.

If so, I'd pick an appropriate time to get real with her and learn whether she's interested in going out for an actual date. If not, then there's not anything to discuss any further.

She'll either phone or show up at your venue--or not.

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Well, a minute-by-minute temperature reading isn't useful when it's the overall direction that counts. So I'd back off a bit to learn whether she resumes her contact in a typical way.

If not, I'd consider having zero to lose by reaching out to ask whether she's okay, exactly how a friend would inquire, and possibly learn whether you can run an errand or help in any way.

Beyond that, I'd back off and allow the friendship to resume--or not.

If so, I'd pick an appropriate time to get real with her and learn whether she's interested in going out for an actual date. If not, then there's not anything to discuss any further.

She'll either phone or show up at your venue--or not.

Good advice, esp to keep in mind for my future in regards to anyone I talk to. 
 

anyway, she did text me and said she’d be at the venue so I went. She was in a bad mood so I kept my distance 

got home late and texted her to ask if everything was ok and just got a basic response saying she’s in a lot of pain, thanks for asking, and she’s going to bed 

 

this is different so something has changed, idk if I crossed some line she wasn’t happy with or what, but it’s definitely changed.  Maybe I shouldn’t take it personal, maybe it really is the pain and I’m making it about me.  But usually when I feel the “energy” has changed, it really has and it’s my queue to walk away  

 

I’m sort of hurt lol  just because it’s been 3 years since I felt a connection with someone. I had gotten used to her calling every night.  
 

I’m just going to leave her be now, if she wants to call she has my # 

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

but maybe another commenter is right and this is my anxiety speaking. Because once I catch feelings for someone i just really don’t want to get hurt or make a fool of myself and now I’m on overdrive 

Are you going to choose fear or potential connection? You know what convinced my future husband to finally get over his then rather extreme shyness and fear and ask me out to lunch? Because he said the third time we met at a work event I touched his arm briefly while speaking with him (I didn't remember doing so). 

He figured this was a sign that I might be interested and he asked me to a workday lunch (so I wasn't sure he meant it as a date).  Interestingly this other coworker flirted heavily with him -but she was a total flirt so even though he thought she was attractive (she was in a come hither way) from what I can tell he realized "she does that with all the guys...".  

He also did a conference call with his close male friends to help him get up the courage lol.  My 14 year old son routinely thanks us for giving birth to him -can you imagine if my husband had chosen fear? I never would have asked him out - particularly since we worked at the same company and we rarely ran into each other.  So consider that aspect too -whether the risks of rejection are worth the benefits.

And yes I asked out men -or made it abundantly clear I'd say yes - who I was friends with and no it didn't alway work out so I get it.

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Good advice, esp to keep in mind for my future in regards to anyone I talk to. 
 

anyway, she did text me and said she’d be at the venue so I went. She was in a bad mood so I kept my distance 

got home late and texted her to ask if everything was ok and just got a basic response saying she’s in a lot of pain, thanks for asking, and she’s going to bed 

 

this is different so something has changed, idk if I crossed some line she wasn’t happy with or what, but it’s definitely changed.  Maybe I shouldn’t take it personal, maybe it really is the pain and I’m making it about me.  But usually when I feel the “energy” has changed, it really has and it’s my queue to walk away  

 

I’m sort of hurt lol  just because it’s been 3 years since I felt a connection with someone. I had gotten used to her calling every night.  
 

I’m just going to leave her be now, if she wants to call she has my # 

Since you are friends I'd check in with her to see how she is feeling.

[CadusBane]

Agreed! Be honest, as Billy Joel said “You got to tell her about it, before you wait too long.” Is it true how you feel about her? Be brave, there is no shame in the truth!  We are all out of high school, and you don’t sound shy. Long talks and flirty photos are a sign, and believe me as a teen back in the 90’s I was flirt oblivious. You’re both adults, and if she isn’t into you more than a friend. Tell her your understand, but think you in your heart know the answer to the question. 
 

edit Bane here. 
 

Sorry. Didn’t see where the energy changed with you and her. Trust your spirit if it’s speaking to you. It’s God’s gift. We all can read how others talk and text. Out of 9 year relationship as of a week ago Friday, when she was mad she’d start using , and - because she was a journalism minor in college. Understand the hurt and know the heart heals, maybe a mark for awhile. It’s the ones that scar we remember most. Be honest with yourself, you’ve gained some new insight about a different woman in life. That can be great building block for your future relationships. All the past ones I’ve been in have taught me so much. From 15-44. We gain new insights with each new person we share a bond for a season and a God given reason. 

[Andrina]

What kind of age gap are we talking about? It could be that she likes your friendship and attention, but has misgivings about an age gap romance  if it's more than ten years. I know for me, I wouldn't be comfortable with dating a guy a lot younger, because I'd be too anxious and self-conscious about me getting wrinkles and aging problems far sooner than him. Some people are much more free-spirited and don't care, but the fact she didn't send you present day bikini photos makes me think she's not free-spirited.

The issues with large age gap relationships are that the older one usually retires far sooner, and then has no companion to spend that free time with, because the younger partner still has to work. Now that I'm having to take care of my elderly father, with regular runs to the emergency room, and had to stay home from work for 2 weeks to care for him after he had open heart surgery, I'm glad I didn't marry a man far older than me, because I'd be too exhausted caring for 2 people with elderly health issues.

At your age, you might not have witnessed or experienced close family members dealing with these sorts of things, and your parents likely aren't at the age yet where they need your help, so you probably haven't thought of the reality of what big age gap relationships can eventually be like, which might be the reason there is a 95 percent failure rate for age gaps of 20 years or more.

If you're still okay with an age gap relationship after considering the cons that accompany pros, then yes, have a discussion of how she would feel about moving your friendship into a dating situation. If she's not interested, I would lessen the time you spend with lengthy phone calls and lessen the time you get together. Bring it to the level you have with your platonic female friends, because keeping this intensity up will be bad for you bonding with an available dating prospect. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[NighttimeNightmare]

4 hours ago, Andrina said:

What kind of age gap are we talking about? It could be that she likes your friendship and attention, but has misgivings about an age gap romance  if it's more than ten years. I know for me, I wouldn't be comfortable with dating a guy a lot younger, because I'd be too anxious and self-conscious about me getting wrinkles and aging problems far sooner than him.

It’s a very large gap. She’s 29 years my senior. I’ve never been attracted to an older woman let alone caught feelings for one.  But like I said, this happened slowly over time and when I’m with her I just forget. Like her age doesn’t seem apparent or relevant, and the more we had those phone calls the more I realized how captivated I was by her and I really didn’t care about anything else. 
 

now to the rest of your comment: I have thought about all of that, I don’t get into relationships quickly Or without a lot of consideration.  And because of the consideration I’ve applied o this, I’m unsure if the two of us could strive for long-term commitment, and that’s ok. But what I know now is in the present moment, which is all we have, I have feelings for her and enjoy her company. 
 

we all age and I never felt concerned about any wrinkles she may have or what not. I honestly didn’t care 

but that is all aside for now because she’s been being quite short with me the past couple of days. My gut tells me that’s my queue that whatever this was is over but she’s also dealing with some pain issues and maybe is just isolating some cause of that. If she pops back up and wants to talk then I’ll see how it goes. But as of now I’ve not rly heard from her much  

[NighttimeNightmare]

5 hours ago, CadusBane said:

Agreed! Be honest, as Billy Joel said “You got to tell her about it, before you wait too long.”

This was my initial concern when I made the post.  Like I wondered if it was obvious she liked me but in my attempt to be safe/respectful it would come off as a lack of interest and she’d talk herself out of any feelings she had 

 

5 hours ago, CadusBane said:

Sorry. Didn’t see where the energy changed with you and her. Trust your spirit if it’s speaking to you. It’s God’s gift. We all can read how others talk and text.

Yes, something has changed. I don’t get how it happened that quickly tho, I was just at her house on Wednesday. That was when we spoke for 5 hours on the phone. I don’t get how you go from that to nothing. Unless it isn’t nothing and she’s just having a few bad days. I’ll wait to see how it plays out

also I’m sorry about your relationship ending, it’s tough when you’ve been together for that many years! 

5 hours ago, CadusBane said:

Understand the hurt and know the heart heals, maybe a mark for awhile. It’s the ones that scar we remember most. Be honest with yourself, you’ve gained some new insight about a different woman in life. That can be great building block for your future relationships. All the past ones I’ve been in have taught me so much. From 15-44. We gain new insights with each new person we share a bond for a season and a God given reason. 

Exactly, this is how I look at it. If things have really changed between us and she’s pulled back…. Well…. Ya I’m a bit hurt but it’s just a “mark,” I wasn’t overly bonded to her yet. 
 

it shocked me that I was able to develop feelings for someone again after my last relationship ended and was so ***ed up. I’m glad I got to see that there was someone else out there I was able to feel for, someone who made me laugh so much and someone I looked forward to seeing 

 

now I know it can happen again and again, in any unexpected way 

[Batya33]

Sorry -just ..... no.  I didn't realize she was twice your age.  My sister is turning 62 soon and looks much younger and is back into singing - does karaoke, meets up with people to perform, took some guitar lessons.  I'm sure some of these people are in their 30s/40s and it's cool if she's friendly with them -but they are then her kids' ages.  Certainly we know of examples where a 30 year age gap works -some celebrities (and my then 80 year old uncle RIP married a woman almost 20 years younger after my Aunt passed away - but -sure - the woman also was retired and the age gap at that age/stage of life worked just fine -they were so very much in love and happy for over 10 years till he died).

She might be attracted and with good reason knows the age gap is a dealbreaker.

[NighttimeNightmare]

Obviously the gap is a concern. It’s not like we have to commit life-long to each other, most relationships fail anyhow even absent of a gap. It could just be a passing connection, I don’t know.  I can’t help that I have feelings for her. 
 

neither of us have or want kids, and I don’t really work. I’ve done well for myself and have passive incomes setup. That’s how we’re able to spend so much time together 

 

but anyway, this saga is on pause until and unless I hear from her again 

[CadusBane]

“now I know it can happen again and again, in any unexpected“

 

Thats right brother, we’re on the beach for a bit. Hey happened to me also. I got feelings for old crush more than ever had for my girlfriend. I loved the feeling, was one of many reasons I ended the relationship on my side at least. We’re going to get to our ones meant for us through God.