How to differentiate between friendship and feelings?

[NighttimeNightmare]

57 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I’m hoping she feels better. Ask yourself if you’re ok with platonic friends. If you are it’s perfectly ok to ask her not to act in such a flirtatious way because it confuses you. 

She’s not flirted with me though. That’s why I’m here, I am confused, but for different reasons. With the amount we talk and the way I feel when we talk… why hasn’t she made a move? I mean to be fair, I really haven’t either but I have said things I wouldn’t say to anyone else.  Like I’ve asked her what’s under the robe she wears, etc. She’s not told me to stop but she also doesn’t do it back to me, she laughs  

 

when women my age have been into me it’s very obvious as they flirt or make advances. 
 

this particular woman seems to just be friendly, it’s the amount we talk and the way I feel for her that throws me off.   Her saying she wants to continue talking and seeing one another doesn’t come across to me as “more than friends” nor does it have any sort of sexual undertone 

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 the amount we talk and the way I feel for her that throws me off.   nor does it have any sort of sexual undertone 

That's ok, then it's just a good friend you happen to have a connection to but an unrequited crush. You mentioned you don't mind her age but seem unaware that she might mind your age. 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

She’s not flirted with me though. That’s why I’m here, I am confused, but for different reasons. With the amount we talk and the way I feel when we talk… why hasn’t she made a move? I mean to be fair, I really haven’t either but I have said things I wouldn’t say to anyone else.  Like I’ve asked her what’s under the robe she wears, etc. She’s not told me to stop but she also doesn’t do it back to me, she laughs  

 

when women my age have been into me it’s very obvious as they flirt or make advances. 
 

this particular woman seems to just be friendly, it’s the amount we talk and the way I feel for her that throws me off.   Her saying she wants to continue talking and seeing one another doesn’t come across to me as “more than friends” nor does it have any sort of sexual undertone 

To me bikini photos are flirtatious 

[NighttimeNightmare]

26 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

To me bikini photos are flirtatious 

It did catch me off guard, I wasn’t expecting it. But who knows if she doesn’t just send those out to everyone, I don’t know. 
 

she’s also responded to me before with “kiss” emojis. There’s been a couple other things, like she almost always calls me around 10 or 11pm and one of the nights we were talking she interjected and said “I love hearing you laugh” and then there was like this awkward silence.  But beyond that i don’t get any flirty vibes in her behavior. well, other than her touching me when she walks by me. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

41 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You mentioned you don't mind her age but seem unaware that she might mind your age. 

I know she might mind. I tend to think we get lost connecting so well on the phone and then are brought back to reality in person. 
 

I dunno, maybe she enjoys my company but is keeping it from going anywhere beyond that. 

[rainbowsandroses]

52 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

when women my age have been into me it’s very obvious as they flirt or make advances. 

^^And men HER age would make advances towards her. Pursue her.

This is where I suppose age and generational differences do matter.

You have certain expectations based on how women YOUR age behave, and she has expectations based on how men HER age behave.

She's not 30, she is 59, she is not going to be throwing herself at you or making direct advances the way a younger woman your age would. 

She was raised in a time where men pursued, women responded. 

She's responding from what I have read.  Giggling at your flirtatious innuendo, etc.

She sent you sexy pics!

If you want her, go after her.  No need to be figuring anything out, just go for it.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 I tend to think we get lost connecting so well on the phone and then are brought back to reality in person. maybe she enjoys my company but is keeping it from going anywhere beyond that. 

This is entirely possible. She's a retired senior citizen and new to the area and seems rather gregarious and outgoing. She probably enjoys your company and attention as much as you enjoy hers. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

She's responding from what I have read.  Giggling at your flirtatious innuendo, etc.

She sent you sexy pics!

Well yes, I asked what’s under the robe she wears she said “nothing, you know I don’t like wearing underwear”. Then when she asked me to come over for a favor of sorts I said “alright only if you agree to put the robe on”

that’s the stuff she laughs at. The bikini photos came a few days later. One of the bikini pics couldn’t have been from too long ago and it was a shot of her upper chest and face. 
 

so what do I do to make a move.  Try to hold her hand? 

[Batya33]

25 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Well yes, I asked what’s under the robe she wears she said “nothing, you know I don’t like wearing underwear”. Then when she asked me to come over for a favor of sorts I said “alright only if you agree to put the robe on”

that’s the stuff she laughs at. The bikini photos came a few days later. One of the bikini pics couldn’t have been from too long ago and it was a shot of her upper chest and face. 
 

so what do I do to make a move.  Try to hold her hand? 

“Would you like to have dinner with me next Saturday? I know of this great new Thai place “.  

[NighttimeNightmare]

18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

“Would you like to have dinner with me next Saturday? I know of this great new Thai place “.  

Already supposed to be happening. We are having a sushi dinner at a restaurant. But when I asked her I didn’t realize I had feelings at the time so it’s more of a friend date

[rainbowsandroses]

49 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Well yes, I asked what’s under the robe she wears she said “nothing, you know I don’t like wearing underwear”.

Oh my lordy, her response was a total flirt! 

She just gave you a visual of herself naked, that she doesn't wear underwear, if that's not a flirt I don't know what is!

Do you really think she would have said this to just a "friend"?

Next time you're out together, have some wine, stare into her eyes, and kiss her.

No need for any formalities here, like asking her to dinner or on a proper date, you're way past that.

Just take her to dinner, someplace casual, create the vibe and kiss her. 

Just what my first boyfriend did after us being friends for a year and we dated four years after that night. 

Good luck!  Let us know what happens. 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

16 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

She just gave you a visual of herself naked, that she doesn't wear underwear, if that's not a flirt I don't know what is!

Do you really think she would have said this to just a "friend"?

I don’t know.. maybe she’s just open in that way. But I did take it a step further and asked if she wears bras, she said she does.  I said “that’s no fun…” and she laughed and told me she appreciates when women do wear them and proceeded to tell try to explain to me what “44s” were. So of course now I’m wondering about her body and so I took the opportunity to ask what size hers were…just to get her talking about them with me. I don’t know if this is what she talks to other people about but I’m not interested in asking other women about their breasts, that’s for sure. 
 

24 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Next time you're out together, have some wine, stare into her eyes, and kiss her.

I tried to do this the other night at her house but froze. We were in the kitchen and she was standing really close to me and kept looking at my mouth so I kind of felt maybe I should but then I thought “*** what if I’m wrong” and I couldn’t do it 

That’s why I posted here cos I can’t tell if the borderline sexual energy is just on my end and I’m imbuing it onto there being a chance with her cos it’s what I want, or if she feels it too and is holding back 

[NighttimeNightmare]

This story is back in action. 
 

haven’t heard from her in a few days. But I did tonight really late around midnight. 
 

when we first started talking months ago we told each other our relationship status and she mentioned there was a guy from her past who had been in contact and they’d talk every so often.  Ffwd to more recently and she brought him up to tell me that she no longer speaks to him. I remember thinking “good,” as it was around the same time she and I started our phone call marathons and I realized I was feeling a type of way about her  

 

anyway. Tonight she reached out and in the text she mentioned a friend of hers has been trying to get her to go out and meet a man, she tells me why do people think she needs to do that and that it’s not something she’s interested in doing. 
 

Of course now I’m wondering if she’s trying to tell me to back off, or if she’s telling me we’re free to continue whatever it is we’re doing cos she’s not out looking. These sorts of comments do make me more willing to talk to her cos I don’t feel like it’s going to abruptly end since she’s not out searching.  
 

she ended the text by asking me if I’m free tomorrow to catch up. 
 

if she is dropping hints she’s not available she should prob stop contacting me so late while I'm in bed and boundaries should go up. If she’s dropping hints that she’s not available to anyone “else,” i don’t want to be like a surrogate bf for her who is fulfilling certain roles without defining what it is that we’re doing. I’m realizing I probably have to figure out *** we are doing before I get myself hurt by my own hand. 

[Batya33]

I'd take it at face value -she's treating you like one of her buddies - chatting about dating - and then sharing she doesn't want to date anyone - and it annoys her to be told she "should." With rare exception an adult who is romantically interested doesn't dish about dating or share what her friends are telling her.  No hints -she is treating you like a buddy.  If that is too frustrating for you given your feelings I'd back off and not settle for buddy -to protect your own health and well being.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

she ended the text by asking me if I’m free tomorrow to catch up. 

Do you mean in person or just text or calling again? It's unclear exactly what she means, but if you're enjoying her company, why not?

[Jibralta]

3 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

if she is dropping hints she’s not available she should prob stop contacting me so late while I'm in bed and boundaries should go up. If she’s dropping hints that she’s not available to anyone “else,” i don’t want to be like a surrogate bf for her who is fulfilling certain roles without defining what it is that we’re doing. I’m realizing I probably have to figure out *** we are doing before I get myself hurt by my own hand. 

What is the point of dwelling on what she 'should' or 'shouldn't' be doing? That is ineffective and really only serves to stir up feelings of resentment towards her when you should be annoyed with yourself for being so passive. You're missing the point and I suspect this is a pattern in your life. Yes, you will end up hurting yourself and blaming her for it when you had the power and responsibility to handle the situation all along. 

[rainbowsandroses]

I dunno man, I think she's playing games and trying to light a fire up your butt so you'll DO something.

Like I said before, she is 59 years old and raised believing men take action when romantically interest.  Boldly and directly. 

Look, no woman is going to contact a man at midnight because she wants him to back off.  This makes no sense at all.  

She would simply start backing off herself and fading out.  NOT move forward by reaching out at midnight.

Not to mention, you're not doing anything other than acting like a "friend" so what is she needing you to back off from? 

Being a friend?  Well if so, then why the heck would she contact you at midnight?  That would be terribly misleading. 

See where I'm going here? 

7 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Tonight she reached out and in the text she mentioned a friend of hers has been trying to get her to go out and meet a man, she tells me why do people think she needs to do that and that it’s not something she’s interested in doing.

Translation:  She not interested in meeting any 'other' man, she likes YOU.  She wants YOU to step up to the plate and make a damn move. 

So many things point to that, even the other night when you said you were standing close to and facing each other and she was staring at your LIPS.  She wanted you to kiss her! 

I'm sorry man but a "friend" would not be behaving this way.  Sending you sexy pics of herself in a bikini, telling you she's wearing nothing under her robe, standing close, facing you staring at your lips, contacting you at midnight.

All this is her passive way of telling you she wants you to make a move.

I'm confused about what you're afraid of?

It sounds like you want HER to take the direct lead here and make a move.  Like the younger women you've been with.

Well she's not them, she needs you to be the man and take the lead, make a move and she's more than likely just as confused as you are!

My advice is meet her like she asked and ask her what she wants, what's she's envisioning re your "friendship." 

Tell her you're attracted to her and would like it to be more.  Boldly and directly.

IF she only wants friendship, then decide if that's enough for you and if not walk away.

You have nothing to lose except a friend which she isn't really anyway, there is more brewing underneath this 'friendship' and it's time it's brought to the surface.

Just my take. 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

4 hours ago, Jibralta said:

What is the point of dwelling on what she 'should' or 'shouldn't' be doing? That is ineffective and really only serves to stir up feelings of resentment towards her when you should be annoyed with yourself for being so passive. You're missing the point and I suspect this is a pattern in your life. Yes, you will end up hurting yourself and blaming her for it when you had the power and responsibility to handle the situation all along. 

I won’t blame her for things within my control.  That’s why I literally said, “before I end up getting hurt by my own hand”

 

im well aware I’m in control of most things that happen to me. If I drop the ball on this, in anyway, it’s my own doing. 

[Batya33]

Just now, NighttimeNightmare said:

I won’t blame her for things within my control.  That’s why I literally said, “before I end up getting hurt by my own hand”

 

im well aware I’m in control of most things that happen to me. If I drop the ball on this, in anyway, it’s my own doing. 

Right now what ball do you think is in play?

[NighttimeNightmare]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Do you mean in person or just text or calling again? It's unclear exactly what she means, but if you're enjoying her company, why not?

She either means a phone call or my going to her house. I need to go stop by her house anyhow to drop some stuff off which I’m planning on doing a little later today

 

6 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I'd take it at face value -she's treating you like one of her buddies - chatting about dating - and then sharing she doesn't want to date anyone - and it annoys her to be told she "should." With rare exception an adult who is romantically interested doesn't dish about dating or share what her friends are telling her.  No hints -she is treating you like a buddy.  If that is too frustrating for you given your feelings I'd back off and not settle for buddy -to protect your own health and well being.

 Maybe, that’s what my logical mind believes because I can’t comprehend how a woman this much older, so unexpectedly, would have feelings 

when we met it was around the time an old ex popped back up and everyone knew and was sort of talking about it  so she heard about that and just told me she gets it because an old flame reappeared in her life too 

 

her randomly popping up at midnight to passively tell me her friend is trying to get her to meet a man and she’s not interested is… weird.  Again, if she were my age I’d think she was dropping a hint for me to finally make a move on her

 

Ive kind of done it to her, I told her about the man who was relentlessly hitting on me the other night (I’m not gay or bi, for the record) and we spoke about how odd it is that people we’ve given limited attention to think there’s something there to pursue.  I told her I’ve never texted him, hung out with him, called him, etc and yet he’s doing this to me (and to top it off I’m not gay), and during the convo it shone a light on a big difference between that and the way she and I communicate.  All I wanted to do that night was get home and tell her about it cos I was annoyed and she was the one I wanted that *** with 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Right now what ball do you think is in play?

I dunno. My emotions feel like there’s something there, on both ends. I’ve never had a one sided crush. My feelings for people have always developed from a mutual engagement where there was heavy chemistry. And at that point usually both parties are feeling it and contributing to it.  If that’s true then I’m dropping the ball and being more with her
 

But my logical brain thinks she’s just being a friend and I’ve allowed my thoughts and feelings to develop into a fantasy world of some sort by not being upfront and stopping this fantasy behavior when in actuality she prob has 0 idea i feel this for her.  My own fault if I get hurt. That’s me dropping the ball on showing up for myself

 

I prob need to do some heavy self reflection on why I can’t be upfront with her. I just imagine myself standing there like an idiot being rejected and I rly don’t want to put myself in that position 

[rainbowsandroses]

8 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

All I wanted to do that night was get home and tell her about it cos I was annoyed and she was the one I wanted that *** with

Yet, you are VERY into but still told her this. 

Do you understand that things are NOT always what they "appear" to be?

There's something called 'nuance' and reading between the lines.  And a basic understanding of human nature and that things are not always so black and white especially when it comes to attraction and romance.

 

 

[Batya33]

I've risked rejection many many times in my life.  I was in somewhat of a similar situation to you in July 2005 when I wasn't sure if my future husband was again interested in me or just being friendly. He hadn't contacted me in over a week since we'd last seen each other (no texting -I had no cell - we emailed some and he'd called me 2-3 times to make a plan to see me - twice).  I emailed him -again -with an excuse -to put out feelers and see.  He would have reached out as it turned out and the next time we saw each other he asked me to get back together.  

For me it doesn't take deep self-reflection.  For me it's all about actions.  I know for sure I would have not reached out to him a third time because that would have been my limit.  I try to go for the simplest reasons when I am procrastinating or not motivated to do something that I should or that is healthy for me.  That's how I reach self-honesty -and it's not deep self-reflection as people generally move towards pleasure and away from pain and fear is often the culprit.

Then I take a step towards what needs to be done - baby step or big step, depending.  

Good luck!

[rainbowsandroses]

 

14 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I've kind of done it to her, I told her about the man who was relentlessly hitting on me the other night.

A man was hitting on you?  

Are you bisexual?  Are you used to being with men and their aggressive natures?

If so, it would explain a lot. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Look, no woman is going to contact a man at midnight because she wants him to back off.  This makes no sense at all.  

She would simply start backing off herself and fading out.  NOT move forward by reaching out at midnight.

That’s what I think too. I mean at this point I’ve flirted with her and essentially told her I’ve j*cked off to her, in a round about way, and she’s not backed off from me.  
 

she’s told me how upfront she is with shutting doors in men and has told me she’s don’t it to a few men already at the venue. But yet here I am… getting hours and hours of calls and in-person time with her 

 

I wondered if she just sees me as girls see “gay best friends,” like I’m not gay but clearly I’m also not being incredibly direct and I said earlier the flirting is very recent, maybe she just sees me as a safe bet for correspondence. 
 

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I’m confused about what you're afraid of?

It sounds like you want HER to take the direct lead here and make a move.  Like the younger women you've been with.

Being wrong. Making a fool of myself. Losing a ‘friend’ who I actually really enjoy speaking with and being around. I haven’t had that in years.  

can you imagine… I can see myself like a moron getting “let down” and finding this was all a misunderstanding.  I’ve always been very good at things, very successful, I really am not interested in playing a game I can’t win. (NOT saying this is a game or a conquest for me, because it isn’t, I just am using a loose analogy).  I refuse to be like those people who think everyone is into them when they’re just being friendly, that’s gross and pathetic  

I wouldn’t mind making a move on her if I were sure she wanted it. I’d have no problem. I’m obsessing over this (which I know isn’t helpful in some ways) because I can’t determine what’s going on. 

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Translation:  She not interested in meeting any 'other' man, she likes YOU.  She wants YOU to step up to the plate and make a damn move

That’s how it sort of feels to me. The way she casually told me she doesn’t talk to the other dude anymore one night when we were together, then proceeded to call me when she got home and talk for hours

 

something about all of this feels a bit different than friends.