My daughter revealed highly personal info about our business.

[HeritageDad]

2-3 years ago, my (56M) family started a t-shirt business. As much as it's been a joy, it's also been a struggle. Paying designers, finding quality printers, marketing and so on is not an easy feat, but we're glad to have our children's (18F, 12M) help and support.

All that said, I Googled our business name and stumbled on something that made my heart drop.

A few months ago, my daughter (18F) went on a t-shirt merchant forum and wrote a post about our business, asking people to take a look and give advice. She gave out the brand name, link to the website, and mentioned specifically "We've made less than $100 in two years", extremely embarrassing and private information that is nobody's business.

Needless to say, when I found it, I was irate. I get she was trying to help, but it was anything but helpful. We called her down and told her what I found. For me, I was equal parts shocked, heartbroken, angry, and disappointed. Along the way, I told her, "I've lost my trust and respect for you."

Was that too harsh? The worst thing is, we can't even erase the post as posts made after a few days are permanent on the website. My wife and I are seriously considering closing up shop because the brand name is tarnished––anyone can easily look it up and find that humiliating info.

[Batya33]

Is that information true? If so honestly I'd put aside this issue and consider whether the joy is worth subsidizing what is basically a very expensive hobby and also taking up your childrens' time in ways that might not be productive for their future. What if anything did you discuss with your 18 year old before this happened about sensitive business information? How is that you lost trust and respect for her - I'm just not sure an 18 year old raised in the age of social media/internet would necessarily known not to post this.  It's not like she wrote personal stuff about you as a person or what you are like to work for, for example.  

I will say I'm not sure how long most of these sorts of businesses take to generate a reasonable amount of revenue but --- 2-3 years sounds like a very long time.  Do you pay your children a fair wage?

[HeritageDad]

Just now, Batya33 said:

Is that information true? If so honestly I'd put aside this issue and consider whether the joy is worth subsidizing what is basically a very expensive hobby and also taking up your childrens' time in ways that might not be productive for their future. What if anything did you discuss with your 18 year old before this happened about sensitive business information? How is that you lost trust and respect for her - I'm just not sure an 18 year old raised in the age of social media/internet would necessarily known not to post this.  It's not like she wrote personal stuff about you as a person or what you are like to work for, for example.  

I will say I'm not sure how long most of these sorts of businesses take to generate a reasonable amount of revenue but --- 2-3 years sounds like a very long time.  Do you pay your children a fair wage?

Yes, the information is true––and highly personal and humiliating, thus why it was such a shock and disappointment that she posted it. 

Our children are happy to help. I don't understand what you mean by your "productive" comment. It doesn't eat into their schoolwork.

We tell our children practically everything about the ins and outs of our business. I would expect her to have more discretion on what she reveals to the public about our business. This shows me I can't trust her and it calls into question her judgment, thus the "respect" comment. I don't know if she was angry or resentful while making her post, but it's so unnecessary and humiliating. 

We are still working on bringing in revenue so we cannot pay anyone right now.

[Wiseman2]

12 minutes ago, DragonFlute said:

 we're glad to have our children's (18F, 12M) help and support. A few months ago, my daughter (18F) went on a t-shirt merchant forum and wrote a post about our business, asking people to take a look and give advice. She gave out the brand name, link to the website, and mentioned specifically "We've made less than $100 in two years", 

Is this just a side hustle? Are both you and your wife working in full time income producing jobs? Are you or the children struggling financially?  Do they have time for school and other activities? 

 Your daughter seems desperate to help. It seems like a cry for help with regard to financial issues and that she and the younger son should be pursuing their education.

Are you concerned it will draw the attention of child protective services because of the finances and forcing children to work in your business?

If you are struggling financially, please look for gainful employment. Consider going to welfare/social services for help with food stamps, financial assistance, employment help.

[HeritageDad]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is this just a side hustle? Are both you and your wife working in full time income producing jobs? Are you or the children struggling financially?  Do they have time for school and other activities? 

 Your daughter seems desperate to help. It seems like a cry for help with regard to financial issues and that she and the younger son should be pursuing their education.

If you are struggling financially, please look for gainful employment. Consider going to welfare/social services for help with food stamps, financial assistance, employment help.

I retired some time ago due to an injury, and my wife has a comfortable day job and is the main breadwinner of our home. 

My children are homeschooled, primarily by me being the stay-at-home parent, but they are on top of their schoolwork and doing fine. 

[Cherylyn]

Don't close up shop.  You can't undo the past.  Have a discussion with your daughter and ensure that she understands not to share the t-shirt business information with anyone including online,  social media,  etc.  Tell her that the family business is private and remain in the strictest of confidence. 

Yes,  your response was too harsh.  She is only 18 years old.  Have a talk with her regarding the ground rules of the business,  request her compliance and move forward. 

[Batya33]

11 minutes ago, DragonFlute said:

Yes, the information is true––and highly personal and humiliating, thus why it was such a shock and disappointment that she posted it. 

Our children are happy to help. I don't understand what you mean by your "productive" comment. It doesn't eat into their schoolwork.

We tell our children practically everything about the ins and outs of our business. I would expect her to have more discretion on what she reveals to the public about our business. This shows me I can't trust her and it calls into question her judgment, thus the "respect" comment. I don't know if she was angry or resentful while making her post, but it's so unnecessary and humiliating. 

We are still working on bringing in revenue so we cannot pay anyone right now.

Your children are entitled to spend their free time as they see fit as long as they help around the house with their own stuff if they live at home - so if they want to work for you that's great but I wonder if there is understandable resentment about working for free.  For a nonlucrative business so it might not do much for their resumes.  Has she expressed negative feelings about working for you for free?  You say they are happy to help and yet wonder if she is angry -that's kind of confusing, no?

Why did you expect that she would know not to share that the business is not profitable? What training does she have in sensitive business information? I was taught this in school and on the job and what was sensitive/confidential actually varied depending on the job -I didn't know intuitively and also had no access to the internet -because there was no internet. 

Do your children know how long you will continue this venture without generating revenue?

 

[itsallgrand]

I don't really understand why the kids are told all the ins and outs including finances of the business. That's a lot of their shoulders, kids tend to worry and not want to see a parent fail . You call it a family business but it's really yours. Sure they can be involved but not at the level you are describing , that's really not fair as they need to focus on their own ventures in life.

My best friend when I was growing up , her dad started a small woodworking toy business. I remember her stressing about it not taking off, her dad not being realistic with it, and being expected to help get it to take off. 

Your daughter shouldn't have shared that info but the boundaries weren't there from your end either. 

 

[boltnrun]

This sounds an awful lot like some previous posters who write books and have their children "help" them in that business.  They change the ages of the children frequently and post about things that happened years ago.  

Anyway, what is it you find the most embarrassing?  That she wrote about what you consider to be confidential details about the business?  Or that she disclosed the business isn't doing well financially?  Also you said you "pay designers" but then say you can't afford to pay anyone.  

You answered the question about their schoolwork but not the part about activities with friends.  Do your kids participate in social activities with friends?  How about sports or clubs?

As for losing "respect" for your own child, that's harsh.  She's a teenager and you're having her work as though she's an adult and one of the business owners.  Without pay, no less.  I had a job at age 17 but my employer paid me.  

[HeritageDad]

5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

This sounds an awful lot like some previous posters who write books and have their children "help" them in that business.  They change the ages of the children frequently and post about things that happened years ago.  

I just created this account today. I'm genuinely looking for feedback.

5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Anyway, what is it you find the most embarrassing?  That she wrote about what you consider to be confidential details about the business?  Or that she disclosed the business isn't doing well financially?  Also you said you "pay designers" but then say you can't afford to pay anyone.  

That she disclosed that the business isn't doing well. We pay designers out of pocket from our day job earnings. Aside from that, we can't afford to pay ourselves, including our children.

5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You answered the question about their schoolwork but not the part about activities with friends.  Do your kids participate in social activities with friends?  How about sports or clubs?

We're working on getting them involved in groups more.

5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

As for losing "respect" for your own child, that's harsh.  She's a teenager and you're having her work as though she's an adult and one of the business owners.  Without pay, no less.  I had a job at age 17 but my employer paid me.  

What she did was akin to posting our credit card information, PIN and CVC info included. I didn't say that comment to hurt her, but to genuinely express my feelings to her. I think her disclosing something so private and equally embarrassing is immature and short-sighted. It also ended hurting our business. Do you honestly see no problem with what she posted?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, DragonFlute said:

, . My wife and I are seriously considering closing up shop. We've made less than $100 in two years"

This is an excellent solution for you. This way your children can focus on schoolwork and getting out of the house for socializing and sports and other activities.

It time to throw in the towel on this money draining hobby.  Please set everyone in your family free of this time consuming money draining misadventure.

[Wiseman2]

16 minutes ago, DragonFlute said:

What she did was akin to posting our credit card information, PIN and CVC info included.

She didn't post this. Why not encourage your daughter to find a nice paying summer or after school job? Instead of this unproductive endeavor, why not help her look for colleges she can go to.

Perhaps ones with dormitories and good financial aid.  Start searching for universities that have the major she's interested in. This way she can go away to school, get a good education and get a well paid job after graduation.

[HeritageDad]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She didn't post this. Why not encourage your daughter to find a nice paying summer or after school job? Instead of this unproductive endeavor, why not help her look for colleges she can go to.

Perhaps ones with dormitories and good financial aid.  Start searching for universities that have the major she's interested in. This way she can go away to school, get a good education and get a well paid job after graduation.

But who said we are not doing this?

She already knows what school she's going to as she got her acceptance letters not too long ago. It's close to home, but she got a good scholarship and is excited to start her life as a music major.

I hope you're not making the assumption we're not investing into our children's lives, because that is simply not true.

[boltnrun]

28 minutes ago, DragonFlute said:

What she did was akin to posting our credit card information, PIN and CVC info included.

Not even close. That would be damaging financially as well as illegal. What she posted just embarrassed you, that's all.

30 minutes ago, DragonFlute said:

We're working on getting them involved in groups more.

How are you doing this? Are you connected with other homeschooling parents?

She's a teenager. How about allowing her to be a regular kid instead of unpaid labor? It's not the same as a family farm where everyone pitches in. This is a side business that isn't financially viable.

I do hope you haven't used any of your kids' college fund money for this venture. 

Please understand that I'm not minimizing how stressful it is to have a business venture that is challenging. But these are your kids, not your business partners.

[Seraphim]

53 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

This sounds an awful lot like some previous posters who write books and have their children "help" them in that business.  They change the ages of the children frequently and post about things that happened years ago.  

Anyway, what is it you find the most embarrassing?  That she wrote about what you consider to be confidential details about the business?  Or that she disclosed the business isn't doing well financially?  Also you said you "pay designers" but then say you can't afford to pay anyone.  

You answered the question about their schoolwork but not the part about activities with friends.  Do your kids participate in social activities with friends?  How about sports or clubs?

As for losing "respect" for your own child, that's harsh.  She's a teenager and you're having her work as though she's an adult and one of the business owners.  Without pay, no less.  I had a job at age 17 but my employer paid me.  

BINGO!!! Exactly. 

[1a1a]

It’s pretty normal in this day and age to seek advice from forums. Maybe the only misstep she made would be naming the business precisely instead of using a pseudonym but once you’ve had some time to feel your initial reaction I really hope you walk back your stance. This is an opportunity to teach her the advantages of discretion not beat her with a guilt stick. 

[Starlight925]

Two things can be true at the same time:  Your daughter should not have revealed that info, AND you were too harsh.  
I’d just sit down with her over a nice cup of coffee and let her know that there was indeed a line crossed, but also, apologize for your outburst. 

My parents started a business when I was 18, which I had to work at.  It was a retail business.  I didn’t mind at all; I liked it.  Their deal with me was that I worked whenever I was home from college, even just a weekend, and they’d cover my entire schooling.  It was a great deal. 
 

Something instinctive in me knew not to share anything about the business, but my parents kept the financials from us, hiring a bookkeeper who stayed in the office. 

I suggest you do something similar:  not necessarily hiring someone, but keeping the finances to yourself.  I know you want to share, but 12 & 18 are just too young to fully understand the impact.  
Best of luck to your business.  People thought my father was nuts for leaving a good career, but it turned out really well, and I have fond memories of working with him.  

[catfeeder]

If the business is still struggling after 3 years, then the ‘brand’ is not working, and using your existing assets to rebrand might actually be a good thing.

As for too harsh, I’d say yes. There are far better ways to teach discretion that don’t harm your relationship, and that presumably matters to you, yes?

 I would apologize to daughter for my extreme reaction, and I’d use this incident to learn whether daughter would prefer to pursue a job of her own choosing that would offer her a paycheck while she pursues university or trade education beyond this line of indentured servitude.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, DragonFlute said:

She already knows what school she's going to as she got her acceptance letters not too long ago. It's close to home, but she got a good scholarship and is excited to start her life as a music major.

Excellent. Set her free so she can get a part time job and socialize. If this endeavor were remotely successful, you would be making money not losing it and jeopardizing your children's future and your retirement. Please read up on "Sunk Cost Fallacy". 

[Kwothe28]

4 hours ago, DragonFlute said:

It also ended hurting our business.

What business? People earn more on daily basis then you earned in 2 years. And I am not talking about high earning people, normal earners earn more then that.

People think they would buy a printer and make it into a business. It takes a high dedication to run a business. For example what did you do to expand it? Have you offered deals to local companies? Maybe strike some deal with local shops to sell your shirts? It takes a lot to run a business. And you probably didnt do even half of it and want to turn a profit.

Also, you are not a beer company that lost billions because of wrong ad. What she did was inconsequential. You didnt lost any money or clients. Well, if you dont count your hurt pride. Because that is what this thing is, just your pride being hurted that she said the truth to some internet strangers. So cut her some slack.

Also your story does remind on Covid obsessed couple we had here on Forum. They also had a daughter that was a music major. 

[MissCanuck]

5 hours ago, DragonFlute said:

We tell our children practically everything about the ins and outs of our business

Your mistake, Dad. Your kids are too young to understand all of this. You need better boundaries with them. 

5 hours ago, DragonFlute said:

What she did was akin to posting our credit card information, PIN and CVC info included.

Nope, not even close. 

5 hours ago, DragonFlute said:

My wife and I are seriously considering closing up shop because the brand name is tarnished

That's probably a good idea, simply because it is quite obvious the business has never gotten off the ground and isn't progressing. You aren't really making any kind of money off it so it doesn't make sense to keep it going. Know when to fold and walk away. And don't blame your daughter. 

[HeritageDad]

I seriously have to ask: do you all see no problem with what she posted?

[Batya33]

It's not at all the same as posting CC numbers and the like. When my son first started having access to chat features on his games I knew it was totally my responsibility to tell him what information not to share and I assumed it might not be obvious -this included our full names/addresses but also if we were going on a vacation not to say that as that advertises an empty home.  He did comply -but -I also repeated it -at times when he would ask me "can I [tell this person I live in [our state]/can I tell this person I've been to [his state]" -

But know this -my son asks us these questions because he feels comfortable doing so - he feels comfortable coming to us even if by accident he did type something that might be borderline concerning - we foster the open dialogue.  What you did runs the risk of shutting it down and you're not only her parent but her employer!

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, DragonFlute said:

I seriously have to ask: do you all see no problem with what she posted?

I see a "problem" (we all make mistakes)-but you're using it to deflect from the main problems:  your overreaction and your illusions that you have a viable business that should be pursued especially to this extent using your kids as unpaid labor. And the other elephant in the room -she's probably not so enamored of being your unpaid employee anymore/for all this time.

[HeritageDad]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I see a "problem" (we all make mistakes)-but you're using it to deflect from the main problems:  your overreaction and your illusions that you have a viable business that should be pursued especially to this extent using your kids as unpaid labor. And the other elephant in the room -she's probably not so enamored of being your unpaid employee anymore/for all this time.

1) I simply do not see how I overreacted.

2) It may not be a profitable business--yet--but it is viable. My wife and I are new to entrepreneuriship and we are still learning.

3) My children help, yes, but 1) We clearly don't make enough in revenue to pay anyone, including ourselves, and 2) If we began making money, we would pay our children, but it would be part-time pay, which exceeds the amount of work they do in the first place.