Nervous for a date

[rainbowsandroses]

41 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I have my little idea about his intentions. As @Wiseman2 pointed out.

He is pretty passive, I mean, not much of things to talk about, he will have sex at her convenience and since the beginning isn't trying to escalate anything on an intimate level (is he really attracted to her?) Dates are kinda annoying, sofa/movie, he flaked more than once, and has much of histories that make no sense... What I think is he is waiting on her to suggest to move in. He saw her place, and the day after committed... what usually happens with this kind of guys is once they had what they wanted, they just make NO MORE efforts... He will go out, spend his/her money on partys, but thats ok because he already warned her about his ex-wife being to controlling. 

If I were in your position Alex, I wouldn't take the risk to engage in this BS. I would just drop him now and go for better, for what you truly deserve... please. 

Hate to say for Alex's sake but this^^ makes a lot of sense.

I hope she reads it.

Often times what I've witnessed and experienced when in denial is we shuffle under the rug anything that doesn't fit with our own narrative.

But Alex, I do hope you read it and all other posts

Imagine you had a daughter, and she was dating a man like this.  I won't list all the red flags again. 

What would you advise her?  

[spinstermanquee]

10 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

poor people are sometimes not poor because they dont work or because of the bad job. They are poor because they spend irresponsably

Spot on Kwothe.  I have a friend who makes decent money but is always broke and never seems to have money (or he constantly bemoans the fact he is broke).  When I listen further/more closely, he and his husband are typically going to (not fast or even casual, ++) restaurants several times per week, he gets expensive haircuts (~100US) every 3-4 weeks, buys designer clothes, plays golf, and does regular hotel getaways.  His husband makes a lot less but all (samely) is spent on day to day or splurges (I should tell them to buy a tent, haha), and no savings for any long term items.  They still rent an apartment after 20 years, and lease cars with monthly payments.  While I'm a little sad that my friends are so economically insecure into their mid-sixties, I keep my nose out of it.  Their economic / relationship policies are not mine to dictate.  I just try to enjoy my time with him (or them when I visit from out of state).

Told this story only to illustrate that by not judiciously deciding life goals, relationship goals, and acceptable boundaries, one can tether oneself to a lifetime of economic insecurity.

[Jaunty]

34 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

This isn't the friend I've spoken about. That's a different friend. 

Okay.  It's a friend who is dating a guy with similarities to your guy.  Do you feel more charitably towards her now that you are happy and comfortable with a guy who is definitely an absolute mess when it comes to money?   

It's extreme, Alex.  There are reasons for this which need to become sort of your business if you are planning to join lives and all resources with him.   I get the impression that you are already there.  Nothing he can say or do will give you  pause as long as he is "nice" on phone calls or when he makes it to your couch.  

 

[Batya33]

Alex also accept that it is very likely that if you invite him to a wedding as your plus one he will cancel because of financial issues -poor financial habits and choices -he won't have enough to buy new clothes, etc. -and you can't play Mom and prod him in advance to make sure he saves his $ etc

Also can you imagine asking him to chip in for groceries on one of your family getaways? 

[Jaunty]

16 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

 

So lets consider that this Saturday is her deadline to make up her mind about him... 

Isn't it clear that her mind is made up?  Short of just blatantly ghosting her, I am pretty sure that this this guy can do (or not do) anything and it will be just fine.  

He's nice on the phone and texts.  He has shown up at least 50% of the times he said he would.   He's golden.

[rainbowsandroses]

Hate to harp on this, but this is about more than him not having money or not managing his money properly.

If that's all it was, they'd be spending time doing things outdoors for free and even when indoors, he'd be wanting to spend more time with Alex than a couple of hours once or twice a week watching a movie and then out the door by 8:00 or 9:00?

Hell, during early stages, my boyfriends and I were up half the night talking and connecting and doing whatever (wink wink) and would go into work exhausted but it was all worth it!

Course that tapered down as time went on as that's not sustainable.

But here?  I'm not seeing any of this, it almost sounds like an FWB situation without the "benefits" (sex).

I really do believe @Sindy_0311has got this right or close.  She's a very savvy experienced woman based on her posts and how she presents herself on this forum. 

I really do hope Alex is reading and acknowledging ALL our posts versus shuffling under the carpet as they don't fit with her narrative.

 

 

[kim42]

I had a similar impression as @Sindy_0311, I didn't want to mention it because I'm someome who sees red flags everywhere, but I thought it was strange he asked to be exclusive after visiting her place.

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Hate to harp on this, but this is about more than him not having money or not managing his money properly.

If that's all it was, they'd be doing things outdoors for free and even when indoors, he'd be wanting to spend more time with Alex than a couple of hours once or twice a week watching a movie and then out the door by 8:00 or 9:00?

Hell, during early stages, my boyfriends and I were up half the night talking and connecting and doing whatever (wink wink) and would go into work exhausted but it was all worth it!

Course that tapered down as time went on as that's not sustainable.

But here?  I'm not seeing any of this, it almost sounds like an FWB situation without the "benefits" (sex).

I really do believe @Sindy_0311has got this right or close.  She's a very savvy experienced woman based on her posts and how she presents herself on this forum. 

I really do hope Alex is reading and acknowledging all our posts versus shuffling under the carpet as they don't fit with her narrative.

 

 

In all my serious relationships we saw each other once or twice a week for the first let's say two months.  Once we were exclusive it was basically all weekend with some exceptions for like guy's night out or gals plus usually once during the week.  We didn't text and there was no email until the mid-late 90s (no external email till late 90s).  We were completely bonded, into each other, etc. Very serious marriage-minded long term relationships. 

I didn't like the too much too soon thing and I had a busy career, lots of friends and activities and this was true of the men I became involved with -missing each other a bit was a good thing. Not chatting incessantly all the time was a good thing -more interesting once we were together and made for really fun phone calls as well.

I lived with my future husband for around 2 months the first time around we dated and we broke up about 7 weeks before the wedding.  Moved in 4 months before the wedding. So then we saw each other daily of course.  I never lived with anyone else but we'd do plenty of sleepovers, go away for weeks or a long weekend, etc.

[spinstermanquee]

8 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

...this this guy can do (or not do) anything and it will be just fine... He's nice on the phone and texts

Okay so he ticks a couple of Alex's smaller boxes, cool. 

This begs the exercise - Alex, forgetting about this new guy for a minute, let's just pretend you meet your ideal boyfriend tomorrow, and you were already together for one year, super happy, and now you two are thinking about getting engaged.  What does that look like:

The three biggies:  money, sex, kids -

- Money being finances, future goals, investments, spending habits, saving habits, his/hers/ours buckets

- Sex being overall matching libidos and level of comfort with what's on the menu and what's not.  Satisfaction with the give and take

- Kids being yes, no, maybe, his hers ours.  What does that look like in your perfect vision?

So now that you had your fantasy perfect man that checks all your (major) boxes, you also have a very basic checklist of your relationship requirements.

I oversimplified simply to demo a base concept, not an instruction manual.  You get it!  Go girl!

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I had a similar impression as @Sindy_0311, I didn't want to mention it because I'm someome who sees red flags everywhere, but I thought it was strange he asked to be exclusive after visiting her place.

The reason I found it strange was right before that he'd been flaky with only very lukewarm interest.  But I'm not sold on the connecting the dots you've done although it's an intriguing theory!!

[rainbowsandroses]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

In all my serious relationships we saw each other once or twice a week for the first let's say two months.  Once we were exclusive it was basically all weekend with some exceptions for like guy's night out or gals plus usually once during the week.  We didn't text and there was no email until the mid-late 90s (no external email till late 90s).  We were completely bonded, into each other, etc. Very serious marriage-minded long term relationships. 

I didn't like the too much too soon thing and I had a busy career, lots of friends and activities and this was true of the men I became involved with -missing each other a bit was a good thing. Not chatting incessantly all the time was a good thing -more interesting once we were together and made for really fun phone calls as well.

I lived with my future husband for around 2 months the first time around we dated and we broke up about 7 weeks before the wedding.  Moved in 4 months before the wedding. So then we saw each other daily of course.  I never lived with anyone else but we'd do plenty of sleepovers, go away for weeks or a long weekend, etc.

Of course but knowing you from this forum, I'm sure the quality of your time spent together even if it was only once or twice a week was high. 

NOT 2-3 hours on the couch and then leaving which was my point.

I believe in "quality over quantity" myself, here it's neither from what I can see. 

[Alex39]

10 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Hate to harp on this, but this is about more than him not having money or not managing his money properly.

If that's all it was, they'd be doing things outdoors for free and even when indoors, he'd be wanting to spend more time with Alex than a couple of hours once or twice a week watching a movie and then out the door by 8:00 or 9:00?

Hell, during early stages, my boyfriends and I were up half the night talking and connecting and doing whatever (wink wink) and would go into work exhausted but it was all worth it!

Course that tapered down as time went on as that's not sustainable.

But here?  I'm not seeing any of this, it almost sounds like an FWB situation without the "benefits" (sex).

I really do believe @Sindy_0311has got this right or close.  She's a very savvy experienced woman based on her posts and how she presents herself on this forum. 

I really do hope Alex is reading and acknowledging all our posts versus shuffling under the carpet as they don't fit with her narrative.

 

 

I want to confirm. He saw my place early on and we didn't become exclusive until many weeks after that. 

I think maybe I misrepresented, as we do talk a lot. It's my own insecurity thinking we don't talk enough, but we talk on the phone almost daily on days we dont see each other, and we chat for hours, and when he is here we chat a lot too. The other night we sat outside talking for over an hour and we were sharing stories of when we were young and connecting. I think our texting is tapering off. But not in a bad way. We check in, in the morning, then now it's been silent all afternoon, and he calls me at night. 

He usually comes over at 4 or 5 and stays until around 8. He goes to bed by 9, because he's up at 4am for his job. He's coming Saturday to spend a lot of time with me and even said he'll stay up late to spend more with me since its the weekend. Last night he even stayed up talking to me on the phone until past 11pm. He said he really wanted to talk to me so he forced himself to stay up later. 

[rainbowsandroses]

6 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

I want to confirm. He saw my place early on and we didn't become exclusive until many weeks after that. 

I think maybe I misrepresented, as we do talk a lot. It's my own insecurity thinking we don't talk enough, but we talk on the phone almost daily on days we dont see each other, and we chat for hours, and when he is here we chat a lot too. The other night we sat outside talking for over an hour and we were sharing stories of when we were young and connecting. I think our texting is tapering off. But not in a bad way. We check in, in the morning, then now it's been silent all afternoon, and he calls me at night. 

He usually comes over at 4 or 5 and stays until around 8. He goes to bed by 9, because he's up at 4am for his job. He's coming Saturday to spend a lot of time with me and even said he'll stay up late to spend more with me since its the weekend. Last night he even stayed up talking to me on the phone until past 11pm. He said he really wanted to talk to me so he forced himself to stay up later. 

Alex, just play it out.  You're very much IN this and not going anywhere so that's all you can do.

If you're happy that's really all that matters at the end of the day anyway. 

If you get hurt, so be, you learn and move on. 

I hope that doesn't happen, just sayin.

I really do wish you all the best. 

 

 

[Batya33]

17 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Of course but knowing you from this forum, I'm sure the quality of your time spent together even if it was only once or twice a week was high. 

NOT 2-3 hours on the couch and then leaving which was my point.

I believe in "quality over quantity" myself, here it's neither from what I can see. 

LOL I hate the whole Quality Time thing -it's really common in parenting and I'm not a fan at all of the general concept.  No - not sure at all -never thought about it that way.

  It's simply was really typical of being in a relationship that wasn't marriage.  It wasn't only twice a week - no "only" about it -it was perfect and as I mentioned it was typically all weekend Friday night-Sunday night once serious.  And if we had to work and could work from home we were in one of our apartments doing so.  We both often had to work late nights and weekends -I dated men with very similar types of intense careers -always worked better that way -we got each other.    

No we didn't hang on the couch for a few hours because it never really occurred to us to spend a weekend night doing so.  Yes if one of us was unwell or exhausted.  Yes I spent 3 hours on the couch NYE 2008 until around 11:45pm  -told husband to go out with his friends and try to be home by midnight cause I was 8.5 months preggers.  But we liked making plans -not for "quality time" -just common sense -couples who like being active -do stuff together. 

One boyfriend and I spent several Saturday mornings during good weather on a huge lawn at a huge park with hundreds of other people in our age range, brought snacks, read poetry to each other or read our separate books, people would come meet up with us.  My future husband and I took long walks often by a lake in one of the cities he lived in.  We planned monthly game nights with 3 other couples and rotated apartments. We went to movies, the theater, concerts, some museums. 

We hiked in several cities and rural areas including in Death Valley.  We even saw Joan Collins perform in Oregon in 2008.  We rented movies at home including binging on Al Brooks movies during a blizzard in the 90s.  And haagen dazs.  Nothing at all to do with Quality Time to Bond in a Relationship.  He'd have cracked up if I even mentioned that -all my boyfriends would have - it was just organic/natural to want to go on dates of some sort whether expensive, free, one on one, in a group, etc.  

I think if two people like hanging out with each other and want to keep hanging out with each other it's as basic as figuring out how to spend time.  It comes naturally with some like scheduling/logistics/planning and maybe some talk about finances involved if it's a more elaborate weekend away.  If it doesn't or if one person is all like "hmmmmm if we see each other twice a week it'd better be quality time so make sure your phone is on airplane mode and your mother knows not to call you as she usually does.......

I can see where a couple in marriage counseling for example migh need to focus on "quality time" but generally - I don't think daily contact is necessary to be close and in some cases I think it really impedes true and genuine closeness over time.

[Alex39]

21 minutes ago, spinstermanquee said:

Okay so he ticks a couple of Alex's smaller boxes, cool. 

This begs the exercise - Alex, forgetting about this new guy for a minute, let's just pretend you meet your ideal boyfriend tomorrow, and you were already together for one year, super happy, and now you two are thinking about getting engaged.  What does that look like:

The three biggies:  money, sex, kids -

- Money being finances, future goals, investments, spending habits, saving habits, his/hers/ours buckets

- Sex being overall matching libidos and level of comfort with what's on the menu and what's not.  Satisfaction with the give and take

- Kids being yes, no, maybe, his hers ours.  What does that look like in your perfect vision?

So now that you had your fantasy perfect man that checks all your (major) boxes, you also have a very basic checklist of your relationship requirements.

I oversimplified simply to demo a base concept, not an instruction manual.  You get it!  Go girl!

Do you want me to outline these things?

I mean my ideal situation would be for us to invest in a nicer home together. Split all costs associated. I have some house must have's that I've shared with him. He does too, which he's shared with me. They are different, but also in different parts of the home, so we could definitely have them all. I want a big closet for my clothes, a nice king bed in our master, and eventually a pool maybe for myself and our kids. 

I'd like to take a family vacation with my family every year or every couple years. And I'm fine going on his family vacations too. We'd have to save for that yearly.  I'd like to take a couples vacation every year, small or big depending on our savings. 

I can't comment on sex because we haven't had it yet, but I find we do have physical attraction/chemistry. For me, I want equal give and take. I like doing it a few times a week. I like some romance. I like some surprise. I like it all. I like to be pursued, but if the door is open and he's receptive I may pursue him too. 

As for kids, he told me he definitely wants kids. I do too. I want two maybe, not sure how many he wants. I want equal time us caring for the kids. He actually has expressed a real excitement and positivity to having and raising kids. It's really sweet. I want a guy who wants to be there and care for his kids, not just let the mother do it. My dad helped my mom and it was great being raised by them both. I'm not in a rush to have kids. I'd like to wait 5 or 6 years I want couples only time for a while and to get married and enjoy it before adding kids. I don't know exactly how he feels, but he's mentioned getting married and having kidd so I know he wants that too. I'm just assuming he's not in a rush for marriage after his last rushed marriage failed. 

[Batya33]

15 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

want to confirm. He saw my place early on and we didn't become exclusive until many weeks after that. 

He asked you about a day or so after your first evening date at your home -he may have seen your place on an early date briefly after which he flaked/went MIA/cancelled plans.

[spinstermanquee]

1 minute ago, Alex39 said:

Do you want me to outline these things?

Alex I asked you to outline YOUR ideals, not whether or not they matched this guy.  I was inviting you to dream a bit 🙂

[Alex39]

1 minute ago, spinstermanquee said:

Alex I asked you to outline YOUR ideals, not whether or not they matched this guy.  I was inviting you to dream a bit 🙂

Oh oh, I wasn't sure. But I did outline what I'd like to see in that post too. That's what I want. 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

Do you want me to outline these things?

I mean my ideal situation would be for us to invest in a nicer home together. Split all costs associated. I have some house must have's that I've shared with him. He does too, which he's shared with me. They are different, but also in different parts of the home, so we could definitely have them all. I want a big closet for my clothes, a nice king bed in our master, and eventually a pool maybe for myself and our kids. 

I'd like to take a family vacation with my family every year or every couple years. And I'm fine going on his family vacations too. We'd have to save for that yearly.  I'd like to take a couples vacation every year, small or big depending on our savings. 

I can't comment on sex because we haven't had it yet, but I find we do have physical attraction/chemistry. For me, I want equal give and take. I like doing it a few times a week. I like some romance. I like some surprise. I like it all. I like to be pursued, but if the door is open and he's receptive I may pursue him too. 

As for kids, he told me he definitely wants kids. I do too. I want two maybe, not sure how many he wants. I want equal time us caring for the kids. He actually has expressed a real excitement and positivity to having and raising kids. It's really sweet. I want a guy who wants to be there and care for his kids, not just let the mother do it. My dad helped my mom and it was great being raised by them both. 

So how many years did he say it would take him before he could ever hope to afford half of the costs of the sort of house you describe? And since now he works full time and has all these after work things do you mean the children will be in daycare or with a nanny and then you'll split the caring for kids time when you two are not working? Because with his work schedule now - how in the world would he do "half?" 

How is it that dad "helps" mom?? Dad is a parent.  Like mom.  Does mom "help" dad raise kids? I thought babysitters, nannies, friends, grandparents "helped" the parents -for free or for $. 

What's this thing about a father "helping" the mom - you said you wanted equal.  A man who wants to be an involved parent should be a given not just "sweet" and hopefully he will co-parent not "help" you parent.  I was a SAHM so my job was to do most of the childcare.  My husband -the other parent -didn't help me.  He on his own parented when he was home- and still does.

Right now he is many years away from ever qualifying for a mortgage, purchasing a private home with you- let alone a pool and all the space/amenities you mentioned.  You sound like you won't want kids unless you have this large space in which to raise them (my sister and I grew up in a 900 sq foot two bedroom two bathroom apartment and shared a room for 13 years till she moved out - often with our cat -it was perfectly lovely if a bit cramped).  

Please open your eyes -unless you want to be Sugar Mommy or wait till you're in your 40s to start a family -if by then he is able to afford what you say you want - he's not the man who will fit your personal goals. (And even if he does have the $ he'd have to be willing to change his saving/spending habits immensely.)

[Sindy_0311]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

How is it that dad "helps" mom?? Dad is a parent.  Like mom.  Does mom "help" dad raise kids?

🙏🙏

[rainbowsandroses]

40 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

He asked you about a day or so after your first evening date at your home -he may have seen your place on an early date briefly after which he flaked/went MIA/cancelled plans.

Didn't it come out that Alex asked him?  And he passively agreed?  

IDK, I'm still confused about that. 

Alex, can you clarify? 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Alex39 said:

 I did outline what I'd like to see in that post too. That's what I want. 

Your hopes and dreams are fine. Sort of the typical American dream of the picket fence lifestyle. That's ok and it's certainly not out of reach for two working people. 

However you're dating 6 weeks and still have a lot of time for really getting to know each other. The key is not if you both want a nice life one day, but using this time for getting to know each other better to see if you can build this life with each other.

[Jaunty]

1 hour ago, Alex39 said:

Oh oh, I wasn't sure. But I did outline what I'd like to see in that post too. That's what I want. 

Yes, a typical American dream.  Very nice. Except you've picked a man who is living in exactly the opposite direction.

Maybe in 10 - 15 years or so he might learn how to "adult" but at this point, he doesn't know and he's not trying.

I can't get the way he handled having a flat tire out of my mind.    Even a "regular" 16 year old boy who owns a car will be prepared to change a tire, call AAA, or change it at home with the friend who came to help.  This situation completely blindsided your guy.  Or, he just changed his mind about how he wanted to spend that afternoon.  

If you're not ready to change your future picture, you're setting yourself up for disappointment and probably a very unhappy life full of your own resentment and disappointment.

Don't go forward based on any wishes and hopes for a person to change.  It's poison.  

The way he lives, handles $ and deals with responsibilities TODAY is what you are signing up for.  

If that's fine, then it really is fine.   And who knows, maybe he will change some day.  But it's THIS guy of today you're signing up for.

[rainbowsandroses]

Agree with Jaunty and this is exactly what I mean when posting "choose wisely from the getgo and avoid disappointment, hurt, pain later."

No one ever does including myself with the ex I posted about earlier, and boy did it ever come back and bite me in the arse later!  

Alex, it's ALL right in front of you.  Plain as a bright summer day.  You see it, I know you do.  But choose to ignore it.

You're doing what many women do and I suppose men too to be fair - you've fallen for his "potential", who he potentially could be, NOT the man he actually IS.

Women have wasted years and years waiting for a man like this to grow up.  Into their 40s, 50s, 60s.

They've married men like this and are absolutely miserable.  Emotionally and financially destroyed. 

There's even a name for men like him - Peter Pan.  There's even a syndrome - the Peter Pan Syndrome.  It's a real thing.

Books have been written about it.  Google it.  Read about it.

I recall back after your first meet.  I reposted that post recently.  You discovered his home was in foreclosure, recently divorced, struggling financially, irresponsible.  You acknowledged these things were red flags. 

What happened?  What made you decide to move forward with him?  After acknowledging these red flags? 

Then he began flaking ad nauseum and wanting YOU to do all the heavy lifting.  More red flags!

What the heck Alex, seriously.

I assume you actually care about yourself and your future? 

Then if I may ask, what are you doing with him?  

He's not going to suddenly wake up one morn and have an epiphany that he needs to get his shyt together and grow up.

NOT going to happen and you would be foolish to assume otherwise.  He's a mess. 

There ARE better men Alex, way better.  Learn to choose from both your heart AND your head.

Choose wisely.  

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

Alex, here's a link.  I recommend you read the article in its entirety especially with regard to relationships.

Please don't become a "Wendy" which is kind of where you're heading imo.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/peter-pan-syndrome