Nervous for a date

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Alex39 said:

 . Last night he even stayed up talking to me on the phone until past 11pm. He said he really wanted to talk to me so he forced himself to stay up later. 

This is called "credit building" . He makes you grateful and beholden for everyday normal behavior as if it's a special treat.  A big favor he's doing for you. So he shifts the paradigm to normal is "special" and he gets brownie points for not flaking and being irresponsible.

For example, he's inviting you for dinner with friends for his birthday. This is a normal part of dating but with him it's almost miraculous that he's doing BF like things rather than flaking and complaining about being broke.

Eventually, the conversation of his lease is up will come about, and you're already quite sympathetic to his "plight" so you may think "it's only fair" that he shouldn't have to struggle this much and can finally take you out on dates.  

 

[rainbowsandroses]

26 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Eventually, the conversation of his lease is up will come about, and you're already quite sympathetic to his "plight" so you may think "it's only fair" that he shouldn't have to struggle this much and can finally take you out on dates.  

Omg you just described a "Wendy"!! Lol

[NighttimeNightmare]

I need to disclaimer this: I am neutral about your engagements with this guy, I don’t necessarily agree with everyone’s assessments, but I also am not sold on yours. I do think there’s a lot we aren’t privy to, both verbal and non-verbal interactions between the two or you, and we’ve only got your side of the story so people are filling in blanks.  Take that as you will

 

but with that said, this comment stands out to me:

 

19 hours ago, Alex39 said:

He's very considerate and kind. He treats me how I deserve. I think he's genuine and honestly I've never been treated so good

Our perception of what it means to be “treated good” is usually dependent on how we were treated bad.  In other words, let’s say you were in a physically abusive relationship at one point, and  you understood that as “bad,” but then you enter into a new relationship with a deadbeat who doesn’t hit you, but he also doesn’t help with the chores ever and leaves you to carry the weight of everything alone.  You may, given your history of abuse, consider this man to be “treating you well” because it’s better than being hit.  whereas onlookers who have a higher bar would be able to notice you were actually being treated bad. 
 

Does that make sense? Not saying this is what’s going on with you and this guy, but it’s something to be aware of. Because it *could* be going on 

 

I’m also a firm believer that people need to experience things to learn. If this guy is actually “bad news” nothing anyone here says will wake you up 

[NighttimeNightmare]

On 8/3/2023 at 2:30 PM, Alex39 said:

I mean he was saying how he's been bragging all about me at work to all the guys. That I'm his girlfriend. He's so impressed by my career and education. That I'm so smart and have a nice home.  And he said he was gushing to his mom about me too and his mom said he was turning into a sappy lovestruck boy. 

I dunno. In the context of everything you’ve presented here I can’t help but wonder if this isn’t so much about you, but about the security you can provide him with your “career, education, and home”

he probably can’t believe his luck that this fell into his lap.  A savior from his broken credit and foreclosure  

Im quite successful and when entering into relationships I don’t brag about my girlfriend’s success and how “wonderful” it is, I expect that they are ~equal to me and I accept no less.  I neither want a parasite, nor do I want to be a parasite 

[NighttimeNightmare]

4 hours ago, Alex39 said:

but we talk on the phone almost daily on days we dont see each other, and we chat for hours, and when he is here we chat a lot too

About what? In another post you literally said you guys don’t talk 

 

this is, a small reason why, I’m not sold on people’s assessments of what’s going on. I’m not convinced you’re a reliable story teller 

[Batya33]

I mean -it also could be that he has "regressed" since the divorce -that he was on a good path in the ways that people are commenting on above and got derailed.  That is fine -but it also means he's not ready at all to be a good match for you given what you say you want and want him to be and contribute in your life.  He may be ready to date but you're taking a huge -unnecessary risk - if you think he's going to fulfil what you wrote above -whether it's because of his general makeup/temperament or this recent-ish divorce and the house in foreclosure etc.

[rainbowsandroses]

58 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Does that make sense? Not saying this is what’s going on with you and this guy, but it’s something to be aware of. Because it *could* be going on.

I think it makes a lot of sense. 

Alex admitted she's never been treated well in her relationships.  Kindly or respectfully, she posted how she's always done the ''chasing' (her word).

So her bar is VERY low. 

So here comes this guy with a TON of red flags but all she sees is he texts regularly, talks about the future, brags about her to his friends and family (or so he claims), is kind to her, spends a few hours (literally) with her 1-2 times a week and she's IN.

Never been treated so well by a man in her entire life!

Kinda sad actually.

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

4 hours ago, Alex39 said:

As for kids, he told me he definitely wants kids. I do too. I want two maybe, not sure how many he wants. I want equal time us caring for the kids. He actually has expressed a real excitement and positivity to having and raising kids. It's really sweet.

But he has only shown up for you about half of the time, and you’ve just met him. This is who he is, and as others have mentioned, you’re ok with it. But then be ok with it congruently. Your future will look like this:

 

”can’t make it to Scott’s baseball game,” “I know I told you I’d pick Emma up from school but I can’t”

 

and you would have taught up from day 1 that this is an acceptable dynamic for you. 

[rainbowsandroses]

14 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

can’t make it to Scott’s baseball game,” “I know I told you I’d pick Emma up from school but I can’t”

and you would have taught up from day 1 that this is an acceptable dynamic for you. 

Yup, we teach people how to treat us.

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

31 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I think it makes a lot of sense. 

Alex admitted she's never been treated well in her relationships.  Kindly or respectfully, she posted how she's always done the ''chasing' (her word).

So her bar is VERY low. 

So here comes this guy with a TON of red flags but all she sees is he texts regularly, talks about the future, brags about her to his friends and family (or so he claims), is kind to her, spends a few hours (literally) with her 1-2 times a week and she's IN.

Never been treated so well by a man in her entire life!

Kinda sad actually.

 

This is what’s scary to me, and stands out to me, every time she makes a comment in the thread. 
 

I have no idea where this guy is operating from, only he knows that, but he’s doing (IMO) below the bare minimum and she’s praising him for it. 
 

it’s like watching two adults play house. They can talk about wanting kids, but in reality this guy struggles to afford groceries. I get we can all experience financial setbacks after a breakup but there’s something in his patterns of behavior that appear more ingrained than just falling on tough times

 

like I said, he’s barely even shown up for her as it is now. That’s a personality trait, it’s not going to “get better” once there are kids involved

 

she will be back on this board creating posts about how her husband won’t step up to the plate and she’s exhausted 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Alex39 said:

 a nice king bed in our master, and eventually a pool maybe for myself and our kids. 

Whoa. Slow down. You haven't even had the sleepover yet.  Dating is to get to know him, not pick out kids names and bedroom furniture.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Whoa. Slow down. You haven't even had the sleepover yet.  Dating is to get to know him, not pick out kids names and bedroom furniture.

She was asked what she would like her future to look like but I do think they've talked about their goals as far as they both want kids.

[rainbowsandroses]

17 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

She was asked what she would like her future to look like but I do think they've talked about their goals as far as they both want kids.

That's fine. In the generic, not with each other.  They've had six dates. 

She referred to such things as "our" kids, "our" master, I'm with Wise, slow the hell down. 

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

That's fine. In the generic, not with each other.  They've had six dates. 

She referred to such things as "our" kids, "our" master, I'm with Wise, slow the hell down. 

I misunderstood -I thought she was responding to someone asking her to detail what exactly she's looking for.  I've always had a hard time relating to requiring a large house as part of having a family -and with the specifics she has and I also respect that she has a very specific vision of her musts- what she wants- which makes it all the more puzzling that she would date him, given what she wants.

[rainbowsandroses]

27 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I misunderstood -I thought she was responding to someone asking her to detail what exactly she's looking for.  I've always had a hard time relating to requiring a large house as part of having a family -and with the specifics she has and I also respect that she has a very specific vision of her musts- what she wants- which makes it all the more puzzling that she would date him, given what she wants.

It seemed like her standards were higher before she met him.

Before or after their first meet (can't remember), she did a background check to "protect herself," and I recall her being quite judgy that his home was in foreclosure saying she would never allow that to happen, she felt it was irresponsible.  And that it was a red flag. 

I asked her this earlier but what happened to change her mind? 

She met and became attracted?  And they texted a lot? 

So all her standards go right out the window?

I don't get it. 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

but what happened to change her mind?

He paid attention to her. 

[Batya33]

28 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

He paid attention to her. 

And she was attracted and she recently has had all this wedding activity going on. 

[boltnrun]

9 hours ago, Alex39 said:

He saw my place early on and we didn't become exclusive until many weeks after that. 

Alex...you haven't even been dating for "many weeks".  He saw your place and it was MAYBE a week or so at the most afterward that he asked you to be exclusive (or you two agreed to be exclusive.  That part is murky to me).  But you started this thread on June 14th , about 7 weeks ago, and that was before you'd even gone on the first date. So no, it wasn't "many weeks after that".

No need to fudge just to pacify a bunch of internet strangers.  You're going to do you, as you should.

[Wiseman2]

On 6/24/2023 at 9:17 AM, Alex39 said:

 I had another date last night. .His ex-wife to me looked a bit ***ty. Every picture is her in skin tight clothes, short tight dresses, crop top belly shirts, tight pants, and sexy boots. 

 January of 2023 they were officially divorced. 

 the home is in foreclosure. He stopped paying the house bill. 

All the red flags were there from the beginning.  You're dating about 6 weeks. You brought up exclusivity "casually and breezy" and he agreed to be your BF.  So actually, except for your musings about "we", "our", etc.,  things seem par for the course. 

All you can do is see how the birthday dinner, sleepover and camping trip goes. However I would not buy the food (or even go).

You're asking your parents for money recently to make ends meet?  Why would you feed him for an entire trip? For mosquito bites and backaches? Does he expect you to supply the toilet paper as well?

In fact you could suggest meeting his parents for the first time under more reasonable circumstances. Not the as grocery boy.

Maybe he wants to be mothered, maybe you like mothering, who knows?

[Sindy_0311]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

All the red flags were there from the beginning.  You're dating about 6 weeks. You brought up exclusivity "casually and breezy" and he agreed to be your BF.  So actually, except for your musings about "we", "our", etc.,  things seem par for the course. 

All you can do is see how the birthday dinner, sleepover and camping trip goes. However I would not buy the food (or even go).

You're asking your parents for money recently to make ends meet?  Why would you feed him for an entire trip? For mosquito bites and backaches? Does he expect you to supply the toilet paper as well?

In fact you could suggest meeting his parents for the first time under more reasonable circumstances. Not the as grocery boy.

Maybe he wants to be mothered, maybe you like mothering, who knows?

I like this post. Definitely, see how the birthday dinner goes. In the meanwhile, If I were you I wouldn't have sex with him tonight. How you brought up your willingness to escalate is for me a turn off. A guy doesn't need to know when and under which circumstances it will happen. You have to be more spontaneous, more in touch with the moment and more mysterious.

You said you wanted sex tonight, so the guy is already taking is as something granted and this is kinda boring. You say you don't want to appear boring, so my advice is stop being so all in and predictable. Be more mysterious, give him some time to read you, don't give everything from the start... Also a bad idea to accept this premature exclusivity. (to late now, he already knows were he stands) 

Also agree about the camping trip. I wouldn't go to meet his parents. This, IMO, is a setup for disaster. also agree with @Wiseman2 Parents should be met in a comfortable environment like a diner in a restaurant or a drink on a terrace. The first meet with parents should be quicker. What happens if you meet them and feel uncomfortable around them? Are you going to spend the whole weekend trying to overcome your bad feelings? I suggest you tell him that for the first time, you would enjoy meeting his parents in a more formal way. So he can still decide whether he wants to introduce them to you prior to the camping thing. 

I said in a previous post that it's time to test him a little bit. in fact I think it's time for you to retreat a bit. Don't give him the sex tonight, let him wonder about you. Also let him time to miss you and pursue you, stop the everyday calls and texts. See i'm dating this guy now. from the start he told me that he wasn't very pushy in terms of love and relationships, that he rather have the woman make the asking and progress things. On the third date I told him that I'm looking for someone who is capable of taking the lead in the relationship. And since then, he does it and when he does he jokingly says #takingthelead. Just to say that you have to express your standards and If he genuinely likes you, he will meet you there... nothing will stop him from doing it and he will even feel more attracted to you if you let him make some extra efforts. >> A lion would rather chase a running gazelle than eating a dead one. 

 

[MissCanuck]

10 hours ago, Type O Negative said:

For sure!! At 87, on her death bed, surrounded by blank space of nothing and no-one, she'll proudly half-whisper, to herself: at le e..ast...I've..a.. a.. always..wa..a..n ted..bette..e..e r!!

Come on. This is just mean-spirited.

[Jaunty]

The camping trip is ill-fated, I'm afraid.   I think it's farfetched and won't materialize.  Frankly, I just don't believe that this guy is going on a vacation with his family followed immediately by a camping trip, for which he claims to be purchasing expensive equipment when he's flat broke.   He just took time off of work for the "all day" driving around date and the flat tire adventure.  He must have an awful lot of PTO at his job. 

 

 

[Batya33]

I really like the point about meeting parents in a more formal -and hopefully briefer- way.  I had several longer vacations with parents and family and it is possible that one time the first time was actually for a fairly major holiday/staying at their home for 3 days -2 hour flight.  Dating maybe 3 months?  But somehow I knew it would be ok -and it was great.  But yes in ideal circumstances I agree -and especially a roughing it type trip as the first time -for his friends sure but family/parents? I mean what if they don't like the brand of bacon she brings or what if there are not enough marshmallows for smores for everyone???? 😉

Also his divorce is rather recent and left him with a host of financial issues - I assume from the divorce and he's talking about his ex and how controlling she was -so maybe he's overcompensating and telling you what you have to bring for a trip -wants to show you to his family "see - she's helping foot the bill -look at all she brought! - Be careful about being a sort of placeholder for him to prove something to his family.

 

 

[Sindy_0311]

16 hours ago, Batya33 said:

LOL I hate the whole Quality Time thing

Me too. its not really about having to spend quality time. I had boyfriends with whom I enjoyed staying home on the couch and just talk for hours... this was quality time for us, these evenings were just perfect because we already went through the first stages of knowing each other and already were in a serious committed relationship. 

Now in early stages, I have to say that i'm naturally really curious about the other one. Meaning I want to discover everything about him, about his life, through shared activities and plans. Also want to share my interest, my hobbies, my life, in a general sense, with him... thats why I try to avoid staying home dates in early stages... it would frustrate me not having more of theses meaningful moments (more than Quality time) to connect on an emotional level... 

I mean it's so exiting to go out with someone new, to share new things.

Now this is going to be an extreme example: I had a 3 month relationship with a guy (an ex) who had extreme social anxiety at the time. So we never went out. We were seeing each other only at my place. He would often cook delicious diners (which was one of his hobby) we would play board games, discuss our respective projects, work, watch series/movies and frankly most of the time had sex which was amazing. But after a few weeks, our hours of conversations were to much for me... I needed fresh air, to change the dynamic of the time we were spending together, and I started to feel anxious... Although we knew each other well from the past, we didn't build any new memories and when I think about this relationship now, I don't have many. (outside of sex) which is sad. It was so monotonous and predictable, really boring, so I ended it. 

Like in Arts, movies or classical music, it's the change of dynamic (rhythm) that provides emotions, the chills, and relaxes dopamine. Try to implement that also in dating and your relationship(s). 

[Batya33]

18 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Like in Arts, movies or classical music, it's the change of dynamic (rhythm) that provides emotions, the chills, and relaxes dopamine. Try to implement that also in dating and your relationship(s). 

I also think this is why you meet each other's friends and also do active things together - and get lost together -meaning sightseeing in a different part of town or wandering in a park.  When my son had his first overnight trip (only 5 months ago as the earlier ones all cancelled due to pandemic), we took a really long walk across our park just for me to try a new fancy ice cream place he'd tried once.  We took a different route, and I actually didn't get ice cream -sampled some of his -but just change of pace for two hard working tired parents in their 50s lol. 

We went to two free outdoor jazz concerts in New Orleans last November -yes, our son was there - but he's older so it wasn't all parent-focused.  Just experiencing that together - it's not like we had looong talks about it- just experiencing and absorbing - I got up and danced at one point with the audience and he didn't but - it's all good -we have different comfort zones. 

He's more of a jazz fan than me - but that's the point -you show your partner -ok I'm going to stretch here -you like jazz -I'll go to some concerts and you'll tell me what you know about jazz that I don't.  In London this summer on a really hot day I was content to stay inside.  But I joined him and our son on a walking tour -just us, following the guide book - and listened to him explain and enjoy the historical parts, the fun facts parts.  I wouldn't have done this on my own -I'd have done a different section I bet -and I would have missed out.

When two people are curious on their own --- and want to be curious together (whether it's intellectual, crafty, adventurous, some combo, whatever)- that's what makes life interesting IMO- not controlling the other person if they really don't want to do something but if you show enthusiasm and your partner cares for you it's contagious -or contagious enough so the other person is like "ok what the heck I'll tag along and be good company".  Sitting on a couch too much -even if you're trying out "his show" or he's gonna watch that chick flick with you - that's not going to expand your world in the same way or help you grow together.  IMO.