Nervous for a date

[Sindy_0311]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

When two people are curious on their own --- and want to be curious together (whether it's intellectual, crafty, adventurous, some combo, whatever)- that's what makes life interesting

Also have to add that some people might not be that curious in general, hence the reason why its acceptable for them to stay on the couch...

Completely get all you said 😉 

[Batya33]

9 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Also have to add that some people might not be that curious in general, hence the reason why its acceptable for them to stay on the couch...

Completely get all you said 😉 

LOL for sure.  That's kind of rare IMO and we already know Alex is an active person with a full social life and this guy seems to have a fair amount of friends/social life too.  Also life is full of "time to get out of the comfort zone!!" so learning about how your partner reacts to that I think is pretty important.  I have too many examples of that since I tend to be a comfort zone gal more and more as I get older.  It's not the best.  He is one of my motivators to de-zone.

[Wiseman2]

On 8/4/2023 at 8:52 AM, Alex39 said:

 we are going out to dinner with his friends. He picked the place and made the plan. 

Hopefully you have a good time. He does make a lot of plans with his friends and family so it's nice he asked you to come along. However this and the camping trip would happen with or without you. That's why he planned it. It's great he's finally including you in his plans.

However it's ok to turn down things that make no sense, like meeting his parents during a camping trip and asking you to provide the food for it.

Don't be afraid to say no to plans he makes with his friends and family, especially if he asks you to pay. Please don't feel obligated to go among with crazy plans because he's sending you pics of stuff he's supposedly buying for himself. 

Why can't he invite you to his Apt to meet his parents? At least there's a toilet and running water. 

[rainbowsandroses]

3 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I had boyfriends with whom I enjoyed staying home on the couch and just for hours... this was quality time for us, these evenings were just perfect because we already went through the first stages of knowing each other and already were in a serious committed relationship. 

I 100% agree that (bolded) was 'quality' time Sindy.

Like I said too earlier, my boyfriends and I would be up till the wee hours of the morning either at mine or his, listening to music, talking and connecting.  Even when needing to be up for work at 4:30 am!

This I considered to be quality time, even though it was spent at home, on my big comfy couch.  Of course we spent plenty of time out of the house too. .

What's not quality time at least not imo is spending a mere 3 three hours together (per Alex, 5:00 pm-8:00 pm) 2+ of which were spent in front of the tele watching a movie after which he leaves.  With some cuddling thrown in for good measure.

Especially during these very early stages (6 weeks) when the focus should be on getting to know each other, whether at home or in different settings and situations.

That's all I meant by 'quality' time.  

But heck, if it works for Alex, which it apparently does, then that's fine too suppose.  It just wouldn't work for me.

I agree with everything else you posted as well.

REALLY good stuff and hope Alex returns and has an opportunity to read.

[Batya33]

I don't know why it matters at all if time is "quality" - to me that sounds like a trendy label and tends to rigidity.  Each couple figures it out and when first getting to know each other there are so many individual factors- schedules/family resonsibilities whether kids are involved or not, etc.  I never evaluated it that way.  Because if I'd had to -there would have been something amiss especially in the getting to know you stage.  I remember one time -this was going to be a 4th date - we'd had a good third date.

Then between the two of us there was  a work trip/an intense work deadline - both of us - and then he was going to be going on another work trip. 

It had been maybe a bit over a week since date 3 and he called and said very forthrightly -let's meet for dessert Sunday night at least (we both had to be up early Monday for work/he had to work that day or I did) and he said "I wanted to see you -I wanted to keep up the momentum/didn't want too much time between dates".  I always remembered how open he was about that and I liked that a lot -he had a great point!  We were together for years.  

And sometimes a simple hangout turns out to be meaningful time and an elaborate plan is a dud.  I simply would focus on consistency -trying to see each other once or twice a week in the beginning - being reliable, being on time, being respectful and accommodating if schedules are challenging and if two people want to get to know each other planning fun stuff to do should come naturally!!

[rainbowsandroses]

Batya I agree with you.

Forget I used the word "quality, it's not worth debating about.  It's a word.  It does not matter.

We're all on the same page here. 

 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Batya I agree with you.

Forget I used the word "quality, it's not worth debating about.  It's a word. 

We're all on the same page here. 

 

I don't agree because in my world it's the go to for parents and often in a judgy way "quality time" with your kids (especially for working parents who then feel even more pressured to make it count.). And it's used for married couples with young kids for the pressure to have Date Night as a must or ..... your marriage will go down the tubes.  Alex and her guy -they're a new dating couple and if there's already this issue about how much time they're spending together and what they are doing - to me that's not a good sign.  

Some words are just words -and maybe this one is to you -your focus on it prompted my responses.  I understand you might have meant something else other than the trendy "quality time" 

You believe once or twice a week in the beginning is an "only" and I do not so we're not really on the same page - and Alex seems to be concerned about how often they are seeing each other and what they are doing -and also makes excuses. We're on similar pages for sure -especially in the general sense.

I'm not on the same page with Alex that it's time for sex.  Because of this specific situation, because of her mindset, her perspective -I think she's playing with her emotions, her potential for even more attachment to an iffy situation here.  I worry for her.  For sure she feels chemistry and desires to have sex with him.  I think she should wait a few more months with this particular person given all the stuff going on with him.  Yes even if they are camping. I went camping with a boyfriend when I was 20 I think and we did not have sex. He did not pressure me. We were both comfortable with not having sex - I was a virgin.  It was never, ever an issue.  And we dated over a year.

[Jaunty]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

LOL for sure.  That's kind of rare IMO and we already know Alex is an active person with a full social life 

Full social life for sure but I have an impression that OP does not enjoy physical activity of any kind and likes to stay indoors.   @Alex39 maybe I'm wrong, I just gather from your posts that you don't do any type of outdoor activity, hike, or enjoy walking even on a sidewalk.    So camping? 

If you want to get away from the parents, I guess you'll have to zip yourself into the expensive (and possibly imaginary) new tent.   Showering in a communal bathroom, no TV, and conversation with the guy is lacking.   No hiking, no swimming, no outdoor sports, if these are not things you like to do.  Have you ever been camping?  Seems like the guy has not or he'd have stuff. 

I understand that this might be "good on paper" because you're supposedly going to meet the 'rents.  But it sounds like way too much togetherness in an environment where you may be uncomfortable.    

[Batya33]

Just now, Jaunty said:

Full social life for sure but I have an impression that OP does not enjoy physical activity of any kind and likes to stay indoors.   @Alex39 maybe I'm wrong, I just gather from your posts that you don't do any type of outdoor activity, hike, or enjoy walking even on a sidewalk.    So camping? 

If you want to get away from the parents, I guess you'll have to zip yourself into the expensive (and possibly imaginary) new tent.   Showering in a communal bathroom, no TV, and conversation with the guy is lacking.   No hiking, no swimming, no outdoor sports.  Have you ever been camping?  Seems like the guy has not or he'd have stuff. 

I understand that this might be "good on paper" because you're supposedly going to meet the 'rents.  But it sounds like way too much togetherness in an environment where you may be uncomfortable.    

Great points -if it's just for a weekend fine - much longer -that's more for avid campers.  

[Jaunty]

Just now, Batya33 said:

Great points -if it's just for a weekend fine - much longer -that's more for avid campers.  

I can't imagine being in a campground with people I don't even know and might feel nervous around and knowing that neither they nor I can say "it's been great to meet you!  Bye!" for any longer than, say, two hours.   Unless I am going to zip myself into a tent.  In the midwest.  In August.  Bugs.  Humidity.  

[rainbowsandroses]

23 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You believe once or twice a week in the beginning is an "only" and I do not so we're not really on the same page -

No I don't, and never said I did.  I think 1-2 times a week is fine, it's all my boyfriends and I spent together in the early stages which was perfect for me (and him).

What mattered was how we spent that time, getting to know each other and building our relationship.

I referred to that time as "quality" time, so did Sindy in her response.  

Sorry my bad.  

Hope that clarifies. 

 

[Sindy_0311]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Great points -if it's just for a weekend fine - much longer -that's more for avid campers.  

Heck I wouldn’t even spend one night in a tent!! In a mobile home with a comfy sofa, maybe 😝

[Batya33]

Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

No I don't, and never said I did.  I think 1-2 times a week is fine, it's all my boyfriends and I spent together in the early which was perfect for Mr (and him).

What mattered was how we spent that time, getting to know each other and building put relationship.

 

Yes - above you characterized it as "only" and talked about how in the beginning you should want to see each other all the time, lose sleep, etc and act on that and be together -I think you posted that -if it wasn't you I'm truly sorry. Must have been someone else!

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Heck I wouldn’t even spend one night in a tent!! In a mobile home with a comfy sofa, maybe 😝

LOL I've gone camping 2-3 times and I'm like you! But I did it and it was overall really good!!  I even learned how to pitch a tent.

[rainbowsandroses]

37 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes - above you characterized it as "only" and talked about how in the beginning you should want to see each other all the time, lose sleep, etc and act on that and be together -I think you posted that -if it wasn't you I'm truly sorry. Must have been someone else!

Omg I never posted that Batya. That you "should" want to see each other all the time, lose sleep etc?

Where did I post that?

I don't have the energy to repeat what I wrote but clearly something was lost in translation.

May we please move on now, and back to Alex? 

I agree with you, despite what you think we are on the same page.

 

 

[Batya33]

37 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Omg I never posted that Batya. That you "should" want to see each other all the time, lose sleep etc?

Where did I post that?

I don't have the energy to repeat what I wrote but clearly something was lost in translation.

May we please move on now, and back to Alex? 

I agree with you, despite what you think we are on the same page.

 

 

OK thanks -must have misread! I never moved off.  We just have different perspectives. I wrote above about what I think about her plans and her plan to have sex with him.  

[rainbowsandroses]

20 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

We just have different perspectives.

Actually I think our perspectives about this are quite similar. 

Re what I posted, I was making a comparison between how my boyfriends and I sometimes spent our time during the early stages (up till wee hours talking and connecting even if it meant we went to work the next day exhausted) and how Alex and her guy spend their time (watching movies after which he leaves by 8:00 pm).

Hope that further clarifies and apologies if my posts are confusing sometimes. 

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Actually I think our perspectives about this are quite similar. 

Re what I posted, I was making a comparison between how my boyfriends and I spent our time during the early stages (up till wee hours talking and connecting even if we went to work the next day exhausted) and how Alex and her guy spend their time (watching moves after which he leaves).

Hope that further clarifies and apologies if my posts are confusing sometimes. 

No worries -I recall that post and I don't have the wherewithal to find it -no biggie.  

I'm a fan of getting to know someone at a reasonable pace over a long period of time and sure one or two sleepless nights but for me in my 20s there was no way I was going to let a new boyfriend affect my success in grad school or when I was starting my new career (ages 25 and beyond). 

I wasn't going to risk that for a boyfriend who I might be with a few months.  For Alex -to me it's similar but for a different reason -she is a bit too eager to catch a husband.  So if I were she I'd be a lot more self-disciplined and slow her roll particularly with a man who so far is iffy in the stability department.

The men I matched best with liked that I was independent, had a busy and active life and social life and wouldn't have expected me to put that all aside to be with them nonstop. They had very similar lifestyles. It kept things fresh and interesting and getting to know each other at a reasonable pace worked for me in every way.

[rainbowsandroses]

22 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'm a fan of getting to know someone at a reasonable pace over a long period of time and sure one or two sleepless nights but for me in my 20s there was no way I was going to let a new boyfriend affect my success in grad school or when I was starting my new career (ages 25 and beyond). 

Nor did I or would I going forward.

And even if on occasion I lost sleep due to staying up late talking and connecting once or twice a week, I recall being on such an adrenaline high that it actually enhanced my 'quality' of work (school, job).

I hear ya though and agree, I'm worried for Alex too.

But then I think, she's a grown woman, educated, intelligent, accomplished.  

I think she must obviously see qualities in him we can't see and if this turns out to be a mistake, so be, hopefully she will learn from it.

It's how I learned anyway, I try to have no regrets.  

 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Nor did I. 

And even if on occasion I lost sleep due to staying up talking and connecting once or twice a week, I recall being on such an adrenaline high that it actually enhanced my 'quality" of work (school, job).

I hear ya though and agree, I'm worried for Alex too.

But then I think, she's a grown woman, educated, intelligent, accomplished.  

I think she must obviously see qualities in him we can't see and if this turns out to be a mistake, so be, hopefully she will learn from it.

It's how I learned anyway, I try to have no regrets.  

 

I don't know that it's obvious.  It's obvious to me she's very attracted to him and she's telling herself he fulfills her checklist (no judgment -I had an internal checklist -quite brief -but I did!).  I don't believe in learning from mistakes in this way- not when you see flags waving and you make excuses and do it anyway-including "doing IT".   For sure when we're really young and naive or when we're conned by someone we can learn from it but I personally didn't have to try harmful stuff to know it was bad for me or to "learn".

[rainbowsandroses]

6 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I don't believe in learning from mistakes in this way- not when you see flags waving and you make excuses and do it anyway-including "doing IT".   For sure when we're really young and naive or when we're conned by someone we can learn from it but I personally didn't have to try harmful stuff to know it was bad for me or to "learn".

Fair enough Bat. 

For me, I try to learn and take something valuable from everything that happens to me in life - good, bad, positive, negative.

It's actually how I made it through all the tough times I've experienced without becoming bitter and jaded. 

We can agree to disagree though and understand what you're saying in this context; I always respect your opinions.

[Batya33]

Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

Fair enough Bat. 

For me, I try to learn and take something valuable from everything that happens to me in life - good, bad, positive, negative.

It's actually how I made it through all the tough times I've experienced without becoming to bitter and jaded. 

We can agree to disagree though and understand what you're saying; I always respect your opinions.

Me too.  I am saying that walking into a red flag or orange flag situation with "oh well at least I'll learn something " is not something I would advise.  Things happen that are bad and we learn from them for sure. That's different.  My son decided to tug on his brace's wire last night despite knowing he has to be careful with braces.  I had finally sat down with a book and a snack and was desperate to go to sleep.  He knew better.  This meant my husband driving him on a dark highway to meet the orthodontist at 10:15PM because we couldn't cut the darn wire or make sure it wasn't going to stab him in his sleep.  He "learned" meaning he saw the chaos that ensued for all of us - but he knew better in the first place.

By contrast he learned around 5 years ago that running in socks on a slippery floor at camp was not a great idea, one broken adult tooth later -he didn't know better because they told the kids to do so.  But now he knows not to do so even if he's told it's ok.  

I was sexually assaulted on a second date.  I learned that going back to a man's place on a second date even if I told him no sex was not a good idea when he'd been really handsy on the first date.  I had to learn that because I was 28, fresh out of grad school, about to get my own apartment, and I was like "I am woman hear me roar -I can be so cool and hang out at a man's place and it will all be good!!"  I needed a refresher course in common sense and safety.  To me Alex knows better.  And I hope she doesn't get her heart broken in the name of learning.

[rainbowsandroses]

I agree.

However, I don't believe people intentionally choose to ignore red flags thinking "if I get hurt, I'll learn from it."

IMO and experience (particularly with the ex I posted about) often times people don't see or even acknowledge that there are red flags.

They tell themselves stories making what should be seen as red flags, acceptable and okay.

It's a form of denial.

I do see Alex doing this at least on some level.

In the end however, and we get hurt, imo it's good and positive to introspect, take responsibility for our own role, and learn from it.

That's all I meant Bat.

 

[Batya33]

57 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

However, I don't believe people intentionally choose to ignore red flags thinking "if I get hurt, I'll learn from it."

IMO and experience (particularly with the ex I posted about) often times people don't see or even acknowledge that there are red flags.

They tell themselves stories making what should be seen as red flags, acceptable and okay.

It's a form of denial.

I do see Alex doing this at least on some level.

I see it all the time - beforehand "oh well so if we end up having sex and he leaves me I'll be ok - it's all a learning experience" or people who choose to meet through a site and see all the red flags but the person is hot "oh well so even though he/she [dealbreaker stuff] life is all a learning experience."  The "oh you know you only live once."

I've also seen the denial stuff. For sure.  

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I see it all the time - beforehand "oh well so if we end up having sex and he leaves me I'll be ok - it's all a learning experience" or people who choose to meet through a site and see all the red flags but the person is hot "oh well so even though he/she [dealbreaker stuff] life is all a learning experience."  The "oh you know you only live once."

Well if something is actually a 'dealbreaker' but the person chooses to go forward anyway because the other person is hot (or rich or whatever) and they're hoping for a long term relationship with said person, that's just poor decision making and well, just plain stupid.  Imo.

On the other hand, there are no absolutes.  We might see a red flag early in but proceed forward anyway not knowing the outcome thinking "I'm willing to take the risk as I KNOW I will be okay no matter what the outcome."

This isn't a bad attitude to have imo.   It reflects that the person is "resilient," able to bounce back quickly from adversity or a negative situation IF that is what it turns out to be.  And learning from it.

Resilience is a great quality to have, in dating, in life!  Again my opinion.

It doesn't always turn out to be a negative though even if/when it appears that way at first (red flags).  It can totally turn around, I've seen it happen.

Again no absolutes.  It's all essentially a risk anyway even when we DONT see any red flags.

It might even turn out well for Alex!  I mean who knows?  It's been known to happen. 

Some people are more risk averse than others.   They refuse to take any risks, perhaps because they're not confident they will be okay if it doesn't go their way.  

They need absolutes.  A sort of guarantee it will work out.   Life, love, relationships don't work that way imo.

I'm still hopeful it works out for Alex.  It's only been 6 weeks.  

I will reiterate my earlier advice to remain prudent and continue observing.  Don't push, let things unfold naturally and organically.

Don't allow fear to drive your ship, keep your eyes open and feet on the ground, live according to your own rules, be confident in the decisions you make and stay true to yourself.

I realize this attitude isn't for everyone but has worked well for me in my life.