In Spring a middle aged man's fancy

[Coily]

To fully mangle Tennyson: "In the Spring a middle-aged man's fancy lightly turns to thoughts of love." It also seems to be a common lament here at the moment.

I have hit a point and I am over thinking things, as usual, on the conundrum of my dating situation at 40.  I will be the first to say in the city where I live is a bit on the hostile side towards single men over the age of 25.  

So here is my conundrum in a nutshell, I’m just unhappy being perpetually single. I have plenty of hobbies, friends, have completely taken over the company that had previously caused me a bit of angst, I own my own home, have vacation adventures, and am in the process of publishing a novel. I have been active in my church, volunteered, joined meet up groups, and have done online dating for years. Yet it all comes down to me just doing my own thing, which is no longer rewarding.

My friends are pretty useless when it comes to being introduced to single women. My Church is nearly all families or the elderly. The meet-up groups are not in the age range I am looking for, or dissolve over time. I have gone to personal enrichment courses, conferences, and social games. I have been a regular at places of interest where I would think quality women would be found. I’m not into the bar scene or live music scene (an explosion makes it very difficult for me to attend live music without pain). Even went to speed dating events and tried a dating coach; who wasn’t very helpful as their suggestions were what I had already been doing for years.

I am well kempt, dress well (I have begun wearing ties even for errands, though it’s because I want to), though I could stand to lose maybe 5 pounds, but otherwise active and healthy. For some reason I am perceived as being intelligent and with a good sense of humor. I avoid having sexual relations when I am not in a committed relationship, so never have been the one night stand kind of guy.

With high end online dating I have had a modicum of success getting dates, though unfortunately they have never really been good matches when I meet them for coffee or brewery. I would say I average a date a month or every other month, I try to ask as many leading questions as possible and try to avoid making conversations too much about me. Most of the women I seem to connect on dating sites tend to be: overbearingly religious, vain "influencer" types, unconcerned about their health or boring gym rats, or those with kookie politics.

My dating criteria I don’t think is outrageous. Generally speaking I have been looking for women who share some similar interests, I find attractive, have a bit of a traditional streak to them, weigh less than me (this has become a new criteria in light of past experiences), can appreciate that I’m not an everyday texter, has similar values, but someone who is a bit more outgoing than myself. Also with the opportunity for me to have a child, I have dated single mothers in the past; but the deal breaker was if they were done having kids. Maybe this is unreasonable after all?

At  the end of the day I feel frighteningly alone. It’s not that I feel that someone would “complete me,” but I have no one to share my life with; no one to go on adventures with. Being an only child and living remotely in the past, I don’t care for spending the rest of my life alone, and that motivates me to seek out a wife. Perhaps I probably seem more desperate than I really am?

 

[Cherylyn]

19 minutes ago, Coily said:

 Perhaps I probably seem more desperate than I really am?

 

With your own soul searching and thinking long and hard,  only you can answer this question. 

If you could stand to lose 5 pounds,  how about joining fitness groups (MeetUps?) within your locale and community?  For example,  as starters,  walking groups.  

Or, enroll in course work or a class or something like that.  

A book club?

Perhaps social media type networking?  

It's a great big world out there.  Don't give up.  Some type of woman is searching for you, too.   

[Coily]

45 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

 

If you could stand to lose 5 pounds,  how about joining fitness groups (MeetUps?) within your locale and community?  For example,  as starters,  walking groups.  

I usually take 3-4 back country camping trips in the summer with 40 lb or so backpacks, and the local groups are oriented towards those 60+. Now I have done dance classes in the past, while good fun never found the right set.

Or, enroll in course work or a class or something like that.

Currently enrolled in wine tasting classes at the local University annex, so maybe hope there.

A book club?

Good idea, may have to give that a shot.

Perhaps social media type networking?  

I'm not much for social media, but I won't rule it out.

It's a great big world out there.  Don't give up.  Some type of woman is searching for you, too.   

It's also a stark world at times, and it's easy to feel self pity when you can't find a good woman.

 

[redswim30]

Hey Coily, 

You and I tend to agree most of the time, and I'm happy to be able to try and help you.   I really have empathy for your situation and would like to try to give you the best advice that I am able, without sounding platitude-y or preachy.   (if it does, I apologize as that's not my intent.  I know when someone sounds like what, it can be off-putting and can sometimes come across as insincere.  In my case, I have just have strong opinions) 

I will start with the easiest thing.  Since you are 40, and want to avoid single mothers and date women who are still open to having kids, this alone could severely narrow your pool.   At 40, the vast majority (not ALL) of women who strongly want kids already have them or women who hit 40 without kids often either can't have them or don't want them. (Especially since it is often pounded into women's heads that you MUST have kids before hitting 40)  I'm NOT saying it's impossible to find, but I want to give you my honesty that this alone is going to narrow your options significantly.  Might you be open to dating women (just trying) who do not want children and see if it may be a flexible issue for you?   Sometimes people can find other things fulfilling without having kids of their own- like a big brother program or fostering?  Just a thought. 

It honestly sounds like you are doing a lot of things right.   I think sometimes it's just plain hard to find people that meet what we need.  This is why I don't know that a coach or anything will help you a ton.  You can do everything you supposed to do and still not have things work out.  I have experienced this both in my career and in my first marriage- You do EVERYTHING they suggest and STILL it's like- COME. ON!!!!!  Why isn't this working for ME? 

I'm sorry that you feel alone.  I can understand why you'd want someone to share life with.  You do seem to have a reasonable sizeable list of things you want/prefer.  This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but perhaps you are missing out on some potential matches with things that possibly COULD be more flexible for you.   Example, My husband is a procrastinator.  In everyday life, this is a quality (In ANYONE) that drives me NUTS.  It's the thing that annoys me the most about HIM, too.  Now if we were dating and I immediately said, " Meh, I can't be with a procrastinator."  We wouldn't have made it.  And I would have missed out on the love of my life because of one quality I didn't like about him. 

Overall, we are a fantastic match, but no one is perfect and may have one or two things that COULD be "deal-breakers" if you let them be. 

Would you consider, for example, someone who WAS a gym rat, if you were compatible on multiple other levels?  Or perhaps would consider dating a single mother again?  Or someone who has different political opinions?  Maybe try dating someone that shares your values but may not be your usual physical "type", which can also sometimes get in our way.  I can't answer that for you.  But, you're a smart person and you know that the higher the standards you have (and I'm not saying not to have them) the lower the number of potential matches you will have. That's just pure math. 

I'm wondering- just throwing it out there- have you thought about what your ideal woman would be and the most important qualities for you.  Like, to perhaps make a list ( I know that may sound corny) of like the top FOUR things you have to have in a partner and go from there, trying to be open-minded about all the rest?  Perhaps this could help you. 

One thing I just want to point out to you- merely as an observation to try and help you- you have a few what some may consider contradictions in your dating criteria- 

1. You want someone that is not overbearingly religious but that also is "traditional"

2. You want someone that weighs less than you, but also not a gym rat. 

3. You want someone who is more outgoing than you, but to accept that you aren't an everyday texter. 

4. You want someone that likes children, but isn't a parent. 

To some people, these statements could be considered totally different people.  This is why I suggest maybe thinking about and possibly re-setting your priorities.  

For example,  let's take number 3.   I'm a reasonably outgoing person, but because of that, I would want my partner to text me every day.   When there's days my husband doesn't text me, I get upset.  Now I have pretty good qualities too, but if that was an instant deal-breaker for him....... 

I hope some of this was helpful.  I really do wish you the very best.  PS My husband didn't meet me til he was WELL over 40.   There's lots of people out there and you never know.  At the same time, meeting someone isn't a guarantee.  And it's important to remember, you may never meet a person that fits ALL of your criteria.  You should consider what's most important to you. 

 

 

[Kwothe28]

I dont think your criteria is too much. Similar values and at least some level of attraction should always be what you should be looking. I dunno your weight but that shouldnt be a problem either as well as not being a "gym rat". I know many women who are not gym rats but watch their weight. If you want to have kids on your own you should look for women who want the same. Which is most of the population aside of maybe women who already are accomplished as mothers and dont want more kids. Most of your criteria isnt that hard to find as it can be a lot of women out there. Though I have to agree that looking for traditional values but not "too traditional" to be more religious is kind of an oxymoron. And also with somebody bit more outgoing you would have to "match energy" a bit. Meaning that you would maybe have to keep contact more and be more outgoing when you date such a person yourself.

What is your age range? Lots of whats left after certain age is not very much of quality for what you are looking for. For example aside of big cities, singles are rare after certain age. Most of what you would get are single moms. Which you did get. So you would maybe fair better with somebody around 30 who would also seek somebody for longer relationship. 

Also, what was "the problem" in the relationships aside of big ones like that they dont want another kid? Did you broke things up? Did they didnt want to commit further? What kind of stuff lead to breaking things up? I ask because you seem to have no problem finding dates and you spend a lot of energy into that. But after that it dies down. 

[itsallgrand]

First I was like Holy crap, it's Coily, we are middle aged now! I remember you from way back. You've always struck me as a person who is solid in themselves and knows who they are and is not afraid to be that. And I love that about you. I knew you'd never settle for just anyone ever.

I am just wondering, if you could share your thinking of the best relationship you've been in, basically what about made it the best? And the worst, what about that? 

 

[Coily]

Before I get into detailed replies, and thanks to everyone so far, I think I should clarify what seems to be a bit of an oxymoron in my preferences: the Traditional bit. For me "Traditional" means where a woman and man put their family first over career (if I had to I would happily sell of my controlling shares in the company if I had a wife who's career was taking off), they aren't in competition against each other over small things, and not explicitly religious in nature. It's more of a team building exercise for a couple than a religious motivation. Much more of a complimentary life style.

I use this definition as I went on a single date with a self proclaimed marxist revolutionary at University, and everything was about the power dynamics with her; even who said thank you to the wait staff.

[Batya33]

Maybe wayyyy too out of the box but what are the chances of you relocating to an area where there are lots of singles over 25? I lived in a city like that for 43 years.  When I was dating in my 30s there were tons of single women and men in their 30s and 40s. 

When I moved to my new city as a 43 year old first time mom all of a sudden most women my age had been married 15 years and had more than one child while back in my home city it was typical for women in late 30s/early 40s to be first getting married and having a baby.  I deliberately moved 9 miles from the neighborhood I grew up in when I was 28 to a high rent district in the city teeming with singles so I could be where the action was and not waste time commuting to work -I walked to work or took a bus /train in 30 minutes or less.  And my social life very often was either right near the office or right near my apartment.  

Obviously that's not possible for everyone and just like I am slightly allergic to suburbs others hate city life and places where singles tend to live (to add - many singles who married stayed right in the city and did not flee to the burbs)

Just leaving it there. 

 

[Coily]

2 hours ago, redswim30 said:

Would you consider, for example, someone who WAS a gym rat, if you were compatible on multiple other levels?  Or perhaps would consider dating a single mother again?  Or someone who has different political opinions?  Maybe try dating someone that shares your values but may not be your usual physical "type", which can also sometimes get in our way.  I can't answer that for you.  But, you're a smart person and you know that the higher the standards you have (and I'm not saying not to have them) the lower the number of potential matches you will have. That's just pure math. 

Firstly thank you for the well thought out opinions, I appreciate that!

On the children topic, I have been much more flexible in the past. Having helped my friends with their kids, and all the joys and messes that come with; I really like to have the option. Now I won't say having kids is a must, end all be all; but I want the option on the table. After accidentally mentoring one friend's young son, and seeing him succeed after some near brushes with the law as a teen, I wouldn't object to helping more. Though, i do prefer the idea of my own kids.

With the brief dating coach, well lets just say it was money I could have spent on a new tent! I was hoping for some insight as to maybe conversational approaches I was making wrong. But no. Haha, apparently I am very outgoing compared to most of her clients.

Now on the physical type, I guess I get a little stuck on the "gym rat" from a woman I went on a few dates who talked constantly about how much she did at the gym every day. Seemed like she had not room for anything else. My bad luck with one probably shouldn't paint with such broad strokes, but it was a turn off as there was nothing else in the conversation.

I try not to limit myself too much with physical characteristics, for example I dated for a month a lady who could be classified as an Amazon, she was 6'2" and could have probably picked all 190lbs of me up like a rag doll! There just wasn't enough beyond out shared interest in engine building. Not my usual type, but we clicked briefly.

It's fair to point out what could be contradictory, and swirling them all around I can see that more clearly.  I am probably limiting myself accidentally.

 

 

 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Coily said:

Now on the physical type, I guess I get a little stuck on the "gym rat" from a woman I went on a few dates who talked constantly about how much she did at the gym every day. Seemed like she had not room for anything else.

I mean -that also sounds so boorrringg.  

[MrMan1983]

4 hours ago, Coily said:

To fully mangle Tennyson: "In the Spring a middle-aged man's fancy lightly turns to thoughts of love." It also seems to be a common lament here at the moment.

I have hit a point and I am over thinking things, as usual, on the conundrum of my dating situation at 40.  I will be the first to say in the city where I live is a bit on the hostile side towards single men over the age of 25.  

So here is my conundrum in a nutshell, I’m just unhappy being perpetually single. I have plenty of hobbies, friends, have completely taken over the company that had previously caused me a bit of angst, I own my own home, have vacation adventures, and am in the process of publishing a novel. I have been active in my church, volunteered, joined meet up groups, and have done online dating for years. Yet it all comes down to me just doing my own thing, which is no longer rewarding.

My friends are pretty useless when it comes to being introduced to single women. My Church is nearly all families or the elderly. The meet-up groups are not in the age range I am looking for, or dissolve over time. I have gone to personal enrichment courses, conferences, and social games. I have been a regular at places of interest where I would think quality women would be found. I’m not into the bar scene or live music scene (an explosion makes it very difficult for me to attend live music without pain). Even went to speed dating events and tried a dating coach; who wasn’t very helpful as their suggestions were what I had already been doing for years.

I am well kempt, dress well (I have begun wearing ties even for errands, though it’s because I want to), though I could stand to lose maybe 5 pounds, but otherwise active and healthy. For some reason I am perceived as being intelligent and with a good sense of humor. I avoid having sexual relations when I am not in a committed relationship, so never have been the one night stand kind of guy.

With high end online dating I have had a modicum of success getting dates, though unfortunately they have never really been good matches when I meet them for coffee or brewery. I would say I average a date a month or every other month, I try to ask as many leading questions as possible and try to avoid making conversations too much about me. Most of the women I seem to connect on dating sites tend to be: overbearingly religious, vain "influencer" types, unconcerned about their health or boring gym rats, or those with kookie politics.

My dating criteria I don’t think is outrageous. Generally speaking I have been looking for women who share some similar interests, I find attractive, have a bit of a traditional streak to them, weigh less than me (this has become a new criteria in light of past experiences), can appreciate that I’m not an everyday texter, has similar values, but someone who is a bit more outgoing than myself. Also with the opportunity for me to have a child, I have dated single mothers in the past; but the deal breaker was if they were done having kids. Maybe this is unreasonable after all?

At  the end of the day I feel frighteningly alone. It’s not that I feel that someone would “complete me,” but I have no one to share my life with; no one to go on adventures with. Being an only child and living remotely in the past, I don’t care for spending the rest of my life alone, and that motivates me to seek out a wife. Perhaps I probably seem more desperate than I really am?

 

Wow. All I can say is I completely relate to this, 40 myself and able to get regular dates but simply struggling to find the right person to settle down with. I emphasise with you it can get lonely and frustrating when you can’t seem to find that match. I don’t have much in the way of advice as in the same boat but interested to see what others say. 

[Coily]

2 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

What is your age range? Lots of whats left after certain age is not very much of quality for what you are looking for. For example aside of big cities, singles are rare after certain age. Most of what you would get are single moms. Which you did get. So you would maybe fair better with somebody around 30 who would also seek somebody for longer relationship. 

Also, what was "the problem" in the relationships aside of big ones like that they dont want another kid? Did you broke things up? Did they didnt want to commit further? What kind of stuff lead to breaking things up? I ask because you seem to have no problem finding dates and you spend a lot of energy into that. But after that it dies down. 

Reflecting on the outgoing topic specifically, I'll add some context. By my nature I would prefer to hide inside from the world, but I force myself into social settings and eventually get over my hesitation. I would prefer someone who is a bit more socially active than myself, and who will see some event and think it's fun. A counter point to my initial caution to going into new social settings.  A thought just occurred to me typing this, I may just need the activities companion more than the outgoing personality.

With my Age-Range in the past it was 5 over 5 under my age at the time. Now days it is basically 30 to my age plus 2. That's the preference, I have dated outside of those ranges when things seemed promising; as I am not using those as strict limits.

As to why things ended, I will throw out some brief examples:
One was hyper-religious and demanded that I conform to her lifestyle, on the first date. I walked away.
Another after a month she had very bad body odor and wore perfume to cover it rather than deoderant.
Single mother, we had a lot in common and knew each other long before we dated, her 3 year old daughter wanted her dad (who had abandoned them) and I though it was best for the daughter to end things. I remained friends with the mother, got invited to the wedding and that of the now adult daughter.
Another lady, she moved for work and she ended things.
Different single mother ghosted me when I didn't think I should come over around midnight after one of my evenings volunteering at a museum conference.
Even had one woman dump me because I didn't orgasm quickly enough for her.

So it's a bit of everything, I have what I jokingly call One date wonders. I go on a date with a woman, it doesn't go great, but the next man she meets she marries. A lot of my problems seem to come from one or both of us dragging things out too long in evaluating how we feel about each other.

[Coily]

1 hour ago, itsallgrand said:

First I was like Holy crap, it's Coily, we are middle aged now! I remember you from way back. You've always struck me as a person who is solid in themselves and knows who they are and is not afraid to be that. And I love that about you. I knew you'd never settle for just anyone ever.

I am just wondering, if you could share your thinking of the best relationship you've been in, basically what about made it the best? And the worst, what about that? 

 

Thanks ItsAllGrand! How time flies right?

So my best relationship of about 7 months, Hands down best, was a lady I met through a dating app. We met for drinks at a local brewery, things went so well she invited me to dinner with her sister who was next door as a safety measure. She was an artist, gamer nerd, and really enjoyed going out for a quite night on the town; not boozy times, just going for walks or bowling. We would text 2-3 times a week, set up the next date, and then throw plans out the window because we saw something fun or new. She challenged me to try the new things she liked, and I "tormented" her with my things. When I traveled for work she was fine with my long days and not always able to text her.  We would alternate who paid for out time out, because we agreed that splitting the bill after the first date was tacky.  It had it's ups and downs, but we talked through most of those moments. Even when she decided to break up with me, she was moving for a new oppurtunity; she tried to be kind about it.

Now the worst... She demanded I text her every morning; even when I was camping with no service. Demanded I pay for every outing,  would constantly hint at how much better off her ex was. When I was violently ill, me not answering her phone calls or texts were portrayed as me cheating on her. When I would call her out on that toxic behavior she would act very sickly sweet and demure. Our interests on paper were similar but diametrically opposed in the details. Those were a terrible 3 months. I was at a low point when I dated that emotional vagabond.

 

 

[Coily]

59 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Maybe wayyyy too out of the box but what are the chances of you relocating to an area where there are lots of singles over 25? I lived in a city like that for 43 years.  When I was dating in my 30s there were tons of single women and men in their 30s and 40s. 

When I moved to my new city as a 43 year old first time mom all of a sudden most women my age had been married 15 years and had more than one child while back in my home city it was typical for women in late 30s/early 40s to be first getting married and having a baby.  I deliberately moved 9 miles from the neighborhood I grew up in when I was 28 to a high rent district in the city teeming with singles so I could be where the action was and not waste time commuting to work -I walked to work or took a bus /train in 30 minutes or less.  And my social life very often was either right near the office or right near my apartment.  

Obviously that's not possible for everyone and just like I am slightly allergic to suburbs others hate city life and places where singles tend to live (to add - many singles who married stayed right in the city and did not flee to the burbs)

Just leaving it there. 

 

I have looked into  moving quite a bit, and know generally where I'd like to settle. My complications are being a home owner (and never wanting to live in close proximity to strangers again) and the disposition of the business I now own. It's been 10 years since I have been directly supervised in an office and with set hours, it's a little daunting to work through.

The big driver is I never really fit in with the areas I've lived and worked. Not for lack of trying, but I have retained my childhood accent and no matter how long I live in a place it shocks people. Haha

[LootieTootie]

Have you thought about joining a different church, same religion, in your town?

[Coily]

3 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

Have you thought about joining a different church, same religion, in your town?

I have tried about 7 different churches over the years. Might be time to look again.

[LootieTootie]

1 minute ago, Coily said:

I have tried about 7 different churches over the years. Might be time to look again.

Yes! Try a new church every 3 months to get a feel if you aren't finding a match there. 

[itsallgrand]

I'm just going to reply here rather than have the big quote I am replying to ! 

It sounds like you are looking for someone who wants an equal partnership, someone who can bring you out of your comfort zone a bit and has her own things to bring to the table, and someone family orientated but not in religious sense that that term is sometimes used? 

All good healthy things. And no, not too much to look for either. Not so easy to find the person who is that and right match, but not unattainable either.

I wish I had more to offer by the way of advise. Honestly, I feel like I could easily be in your shoes. I don't know how I happened to meet someone I have been in a relationship this long for. I felt like I found a Unicorn finding a man in his late 30s (at the time) who didn't have kids, yet valued family and community, and was looking for the same as me and we fit. The person you are looking for is going to feel the same way, she will know she's struck gold. 

Don't give up. 

[lostandhurt]

I feel you Coily

  I haven't actively dated in years because I just got tired of being disappointed.  You are trying way more than I ever did and are really putting yourself out there so good on you.

 I am pretty brave and will cold walk up to women at the home center or grocery store and do a lot of volunteering which brings me to my suggestion for you.

 You have to go where the women are or where a lot of women are and that is a hospital. Do any of the childrens hospitals have volunteer programs?  Since Covid they may not have all restarted but it is worth looking into.  It is very rewarding AND you meet a lot of women in a natural setting. Being a single man with no children could be a sticking point but it is worth looking into.

 I am curious how far away when you are doing OLD are you willing to travel? 50 miles? 75?

  I have been threatening to get back on a dating app for the last 2 years...sigh, guess I need to get back out there too.

 Lost

 

[Kwothe28]

9 hours ago, Coily said:

So it's a bit of everything, I have what I jokingly call One date wonders. I go on a date with a woman, it doesn't go great, but the next man she meets she marries.

Sounds like some of my past relationships. Though some of them are still single in their late 30s so it really makes me wonder about my past choices lol

"Traditional" can maybe be solved with move into more traditional environment where you would have more choices of women with those values. But lots of it just sounds like "missmatches". "Red flags" that you should watch and come in them being "overthly something" whether its religion, politics or jealous. That is OK that is what dating is about, trying and seeing what is good for us.  You need to keep trying and see what sticks.

[Cherylyn]

Larger churches have single ministry groups or ministry groups broken up into subset or sub-groups according to various age brackets and status (single / married, etc.)  You might want to try going that route.  I agree with @LootieTootie.