Dating strategy advice

[Whirling D]

Hi all… It’s been a while since I’ve posted here.

i’ve been doing OK… Have a few dating irons in the fire, but the fires are mostly flickering, and not yet burning.

I have three potential dates, and wouldn’t mind you telling me what you think I should do or not do with each. This is just for conversation purposes, and for once in my life, I’m not pining over anyone really… 🙂

The most important one is in regards to a lady that I’ve been Facebook friends with for the last couple of years but I’ve never met. I would post on her occasional thread, and she would respond warmly but briefly.

A year ago, I thought I would be bold, and sent her a message on FB messenger just to say hi and see how she would respond. Her response was guarded and didn’t seem hugely encouraging, so I let it drop. If it were me, and I was actually interested, I would probably say something like… “Nice to hear from you, talk to you another time?“ Or something like that. Nope.

After that, I backed off, and even when I did say something on one of her postings, it either went ignored or she just said one or two words of thanks. I took that as a lack of interest, which I think might have been accurate.

I wrote a lengthy epitaph on my FB when my dad passed away back in December, and she did comment that it was lovely and said she was sorry for my loss… That was nice.

Fast forward to a couple of days ago… Background:  I’ve had the good opportunity to play music in the local kids musical (Lots of wonderful ladies volunteering, so it’s been good for my psyche…), and the local cable channel came out to film for a video spot. They posted that spot.  I shared it on FB messenger, and posted it to anyone who I thought might be interested in seeing it… On a bit of a whim, I included her in my share, including a couple of other girls I kind of have an interest in.

A day went by, and I could tell she saw it, but no response. I kind of expected that, and forgot about it.  But then, out of the blue, she wrote me a lovely message… Explaining that she loved musicals, and how her grandparents wrote and produced musicals and she used to go see them when she was a kid. She then said, “I admire what you do, instilling love of music and expression and building confidence. Ty for sharing 🙂”

so. This came as a complete shock. I took about an hour to decide how to respond… And I thought I could easily respond by saying to her that I admire her, as well, for being the sole provider of a young daughter, and working in a field that I also find interesting and fun. I also thought about telling her that I have wanted to get to know her, yada yada yada…

Then I thought that attracting someone is kind of a nuance, and I thought giving her too much of a response too quickly might scare her off again… So I thought of a simpler strategy and just said… “Thank you, Kristen, you should bring your sprout and come!“

Silence.  36 hours.

So… As for your advice… Is this a stop sign? Should I follow up at some point? Did I blow it by not being a little more engaging with my response to her?  Thoughts?

My gut tells me it’s a stop sign, and a no response is another indication that for whatever her reasons, she’s not going there.

That being said… All kinds of dating sites I have encountered recently say that women appreciate guys who are confident and sometimes a bit bold. Maybe I could be a little more direct and ask her to come, rather than suggesting? Or asking her if she’d like to meet for a coffee in her town sometime? I’m kind of thinking out loud here, but in some ways, what do I have to lose, other than another rejection and broken heart. Oh, that.

I’m asking you guys because, as you may remember from before, I don’t attract partners easily, most of the time at all, at least ones I feel like I have anything in common with… So I could use some outside perspective… There’s a chance I could really enjoy this girl from everything I know of her.

What would you do in this situation?

[Kwothe28]

8 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

That being said… All kinds of dating sites I have encountered recently say that women appreciate guys who are confident and sometimes a bit bold.

Oof. "Confident and bold" is not a bad thing sometimes. But condifent and bold wont help you when they dont like you. When they like you they would even ignore "red flags" to be with you. When they dont, being this and that wont help you at all. You can be as confident and bold as you want. It wont help you, she wont think you are a suitable partner.

The reason I tell you this is because, if she let it fade away once, and even twice, chances are she doesnt like you. Because if she did she would indeed respond to messages, even try to stay more in a conversation. So look at her messages as a common curtesy. Rather then genuine interest in you. So dont follow up with messages when she isnt interested in respond to you. 

You said you have other prospects. So, focus on them and forget about this one. 

[boltnrun]

Nope, I wouldn't pursue her. Nothing she wrote indicated romantic interest. 

[Whirling D]

Well… It may not be that simple.  It may be, but who knows.

she has written things on Facebook in the past that indicate that she has gone through some lousy times with men in the not too distant past.

I have a hard time feeling that if she had zero interest, she wouldn’t have responded in either case, a year ago, or a couple of days ago. She had no real incentive to do so.  She doesn’t know me from a hole in the wall, so she could easily just have ignored everything I sent to her on both occasions and be done with it. But she didn’t. There’s a tiny bit of a green flag in there I think.

meeting new people isn’t easy for those, particularly women, who have been brokenhearted in a bad way in the recent past. I get the impression that she may not be that keen on taking on someone new… Since she seems pretty content in her own life these days, building her own reality, which I think is great for her.

so, I’m not sure I am inclined to agree that there is zero interest, but this is purely conjecture at this point. I think she would have not said anything on either occasion.  Particularly something that could be seen as encouraging, like this last one.

however, there’s no real way to know unless I ask her out, but if what you guys are saying is true, it makes me less confident to do that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Nope, I wouldn't pursue her. Nothing she wrote indicated romantic interest. 

Well, if someone was posting something on my Messenger account, and I had zero interest in that person, I wouldn’t be texting them back telling them that I admired what they are doing. That’s a recipe for continued contact.  Particularly, when I said hello to her a year earlier, which many have said might seem to be a little creepy, considering that it was a short conversation that seem to fizzle out pretty quickly.

I think that after my initial contact a year ago, and then reading what I wrote about my dad‘s passing, and then seeing this, there’s a chance that she’s thinking… Hey, this guy seems like he is a pretty good guy… Maybe I shouldn’t be quite as guarded. I can’t imagine why she would have reached out this time around if that wasn’t the case. She had no incentive to do so.

[boltnrun]

I've commented on Facebook posts. I've also messaged people (men and women) regarding their posts. I've even donated to their fundraisers. 

I have zero desire to date any of these people.

I can see you really, really hope this woman is interested in you. So I guess if you're determined, go ahead and shoot your shot. The worst she can do is decline your invitation. 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Whirling D said:

So… As for your advice… Is this a stop sign? Should I follow up at some point? Did I blow it by not being a little more engaging with my response to her?  Thoughts?

I do love how you approached this and your invitation. I would not follow up though. It wouldn't be a show of confidence but pushiness IMO.  I'm sorry!

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

I have a hard time feeling that if she had zero interest, she wouldn’t have responded in either case, a year ago, or a couple of days ago. She had no real incentive to do so.  She doesn’t know me from a hole in the wall, so she could easily just have ignored everything I sent to her on both occasions and be done with it. But she didn’t. There’s a tiny bit of a green flag in there I think.

No. She's responding because you're a fellow human being, not because you're a romantic interest.

[Whirling D]

10 hours ago, Jibralta said:

No. She's responding because you're a fellow human being, not because you're a romantic interest.

Well, all of the pieces don’t add up…

There are lots of people that send me advertisements and postings for things they have going on either on Facebook, or messenger. Particularly messenger. That’s a direct hit.  It’s hard to tell when you get some thing from messenger whether someone sent it only to you, or to many people. Therefore, when I get something on messenger, I figure it had to have been pretty much directed towards me specifically.

I don’t find myself feeling compelled to respond, unless it’s something of interest, or as a courtesy. Both of the other two girls I mentioned did that. They pretty much just said, “have a good time“ or something like that that doesn’t have engagement imbedded into it.  Especially when the posting comes from someone who reached out to you once before in a rather awkward way, so she has to know or get some sort of inkling that I may be interested.

And, if she’s kind of on the fence about actually moving forward with continued interaction, perhaps as a result of things that have nothing to do with me… Then it is possible that her reaching out was a little bit of a lure.  

I guess there’s no right or wrong answer here. I either have to man up and reach out to her again, or put it on the back burner again and see if something else surfaces with her in the future. It’s making that decision that seems to be the hardest part.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

Well, all of the pieces don’t add up…

Okay, if you want to ask her out, then ask her out. We don't have a crystal ball, here, and your guess is as good as anybody else's. Fingers crossed for you.

[Wiseman2]

19 hours ago, Whirling D said:

Did I blow it by not being a little more engaging with my response to her? 

Perhaps there's some miscommunication? She seems to be using social media for casual FB "friends" and acting accordingly. You seem to be using FB as a dating app, unbeknownst to your contacts.

If you are still interested in meeting her in person, then suggest getting together, but not just as a member of the audience. 

[Batya33]

7 hours ago, Whirling D said:

I either have to man up and reach out to her again, or put it on the back burner again and see if something else surfaces with her in the future. It’s making that decision that seems to be the hardest part.

 

Contacting her again -especially to ask to meet - is not manning up or gender related.  It's pushy IMO. Personing up is accepting "no".

[Whirling D]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Perhaps there's some miscommunication? She seems to be using social media for casual FB "friends" and acting accordingly. You seem to be using FB as a dating app, unbeknownst to your contacts.

If you are still interested in meeting her in person, then suggest getting together, but not just as a member of the audience. 

Fair enough… But messenger seems a little bit more personal. That’s why I’m even thinking about this. If it was just a regular FB posting, it wouldn’t give me much thought.  But the “admire” thing makes me wonder quite a bit more. That came out of nowhere.

do you think I undersold myself in my response to her nice message? Should I have been a little more forward? Could I have turned her off for not being man enough to be more clear? She could easily construe my “you should come!“ as not very clear regarding intent. That’s my biggest regret.

others say her lack of response is quite clear. I guess I don’t get it. Why would somebody say something like that and not respond either one way or the other when you casually suggest they go to the event? 

[Whirling D]

15 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Contacting her again -especially to ask to meet - is not manning up or gender related.  It's pushy IMO. Personing up is accepting "no".

Well, I’m just hoping she doesn’t think I was casually suggesting that she comes, unrelated to me actually having any interest in dating her. She might’ve just thought I was suggesting, rather than showing interest in her.

How would I know if I don’t respond more.

I was thinking of saying something like… “Now that I have more time to write…” I could tell her a bit of my own history with musicals (as she told me about hers), within about a paragraph, and then tell her that I have enjoyed seeing her postings, as well, and it would be nice to sit and chat a bit sometime… Maybe suggest a time and place?

 That’s too pushy? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Batya33]

14 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Well, I’m just hoping she doesn’t think I was casually suggesting that she comes, unrelated to me actually having any interest in dating her. She might’ve just thought I was suggesting, rather than showing interest in her.

How would I know if I don’t respond more.

I was thinking of saying something like… “Now that I have more time to write…” I could tell her a bit of my own history with musicals (as she told me about hers), within about a paragraph, and then tell her that I have enjoyed seeing her postings, as well, and it would be nice to sit and chat a bit sometime… Maybe suggest a time and place?

 That’s too pushy? 

 

 

 

 

 

To me that would be pushy. IMO given how you contacted her in the past too you've hit her over the head with interest.  She knows and if she wanted to see you she'd grab on to your offer and invite and pin down a date ASAP.  I would be creeped out as a woman if I got typed paragraph about you in this situation. She's not that into you and it will be even more of a turn off to see you hiding behind a screen and oversharing.

Analogous example - 7 years ago for about 1-2 years I was friends with a neighbor who then moved about 7 blocks away.  My age, no kids (I have one).  We met  about once a month for coffee or lunch -sometimes at her new place. 

We emailed or called about once a month but typically just to make plans.  She ghosted me as it's called now. I have NO CLUE why. 

Weirdly, I ran into her at least 4 times over the years and except for one time she came over to me, initiated a hello, a chat -even when she saw me on the phone.  One of those times I reached out again and got a lame response.  Years ago. 

3 months ago I ran into her and I didn't stop to talk -not because of game playing -she saw I was pushing a heavy shopping cart full of groceries -it was cool.  I ran into her a couple of days ago at a store -she stopped me and she was so happy to see me.  I said to her directly and simply "I'd like to be in touch again."  She said she would too.   And gave me an excuse that really didnt fill in all these years at all (they'd relocated to my home town actually for 1-2 years). 

We exchanged contact info.  She promised to text and we'd make a plan.  She texted that day "I'm busy today but will text you soon to make a plan." The next day she texted me to make a plan -I couldn't do that day, texted back with an alternate and she agreed. 

Here is my point  - there is NO WAY I was going to text her first -yes, it is kinda like dating.  My personal conditions for perhaps meeting up with her again after all these years was that she had to put in the effort -ball totally in her court. Once she reached out with a time and place I did not wait to respond, I immediately suggested alternatives -like a few days later -to show her goodwill and interest. 

But I would never ever have reached out because when I said to her "I'd like to be in touch again" I didn't add "so let's get coffee- when are you free?"  She knew full well she needed to make the effort.  Perhaps i'm a fool to give her another chance -but it's convenient for me, I suggested a walk in the park which I enjoy - and it's an hour or so of my time.  Perhaps she'll share more with me about the ghosting.

Leave the ball in her court and for sure don't hide behind a screen and ramble on about your musicals interest.  I was in a serious relationship for years with a musical theater person, I've known and know many theater people, I worked with theater people, took acting lessons, love it.  I also have known personally famous musicians, love music, love musical artists.  And I get the whole level of interest and how special it is and I love hearing peoples' stories. As a woman I'd hate being contacted by you again in this situation and would see the musical theater stuff as completely transparent and salesy/pushy.  

[boltnrun]

Don't send her your resume like you're applying for a job or auditioning for a role in a musical.  Simply say "It seems we have some interests in common.  Would you like to discuss this more in person?  I know of a great coffee place."

[catfeeder]

4 hours ago, Whirling D said:

do you think I undersold myself in my response to her nice message? Should I have been a little more forward?

No, your response was appropriate and welcoming. I promise, she's not evaluating your man card. She's using the app as it's designed, and @Wiseman2 is right, you're the one trying to morph it into a dating app.

You know there ARE apps for dating, right? THOSE are the ones that don't require overthinking. Women expect to be asked to meet on those. FB is supposed to be a neighborly and 'safe' space for comment without every word being interpreted as a high charge.

I would hang back and learn whether she opts to interact with you more. This would avoid the impression that if she comments on something you'll swoop in and pounce. Allow for a more natural progression, and if that doesn't occur, THAT is your answer.

[Cherylyn]

I would be less reliant on social media.  If you're unnaturally enthusiastic, many women consider it a warning to beware so naturally, they'll behave in a standoffish manner. 

I agree with others.  I would suggest meeting for coffee or lunch and gradually and slowly nurture the friendship.  See if the friendship can be elevated to a relationship level.  Take baby steps.  Get to know the woman and allow her to get to know you, too.  In person conversations are so important.  It requires time and patience.  Don't rush and don't be in a hurry otherwise you'll scare her off.  

Be natural and don't be over zealous.  Listen a lot and never interrupt.  People love to talk about themselves.  Be humble, modest, gracious, well mannered, sincere and gentlemanly.  Most women love that.  Stellar character is everything.

Don't over do it with electronic communication or correspondence such as text, messages, emails and voicemails.  If a woman is local, focus on in person dialogue. 

My condolences for losing your Dad. 

 

[Whirling D]

17 hours ago, Batya33 said:

To me that would be pushy. IMO given how you contacted her in the past too you've hit her over the head with interest.  She knows and if she wanted to see you she'd grab on to your offer and invite and pin down a date ASAP.  I would be creeped out as a woman if I got typed paragraph about you in this situation. She's not that into you and it will be even more of a turn off to see you hiding behind a screen and oversharing.

Analogous example - 7 years ago for about 1-2 years I was friends with a neighbor who then moved about 7 blocks away.  My age, no kids (I have one).  We met  about once a month for coffee or lunch -sometimes at her new place. 

We emailed or called about once a month but typically just to make plans.  She ghosted me as it's called now. I have NO CLUE why. 

Weirdly, I ran into her at least 4 times over the years and except for one time she came over to me, initiated a hello, a chat -even when she saw me on the phone.  One of those times I reached out again and got a lame response.  Years ago. 

3 months ago I ran into her and I didn't stop to talk -not because of game playing -she saw I was pushing a heavy shopping cart full of groceries -it was cool.  I ran into her a couple of days ago at a store -she stopped me and she was so happy to see me.  I said to her directly and simply "I'd like to be in touch again."  She said she would too.   And gave me an excuse that really didnt fill in all these years at all (they'd relocated to my home town actually for 1-2 years). 

We exchanged contact info.  She promised to text and we'd make a plan.  She texted that day "I'm busy today but will text you soon to make a plan." The next day she texted me to make a plan -I couldn't do that day, texted back with an alternate and she agreed. 

Here is my point  - there is NO WAY I was going to text her first -yes, it is kinda like dating.  My personal conditions for perhaps meeting up with her again after all these years was that she had to put in the effort -ball totally in her court. Once she reached out with a time and place I did not wait to respond, I immediately suggested alternatives -like a few days later -to show her goodwill and interest. 

But I would never ever have reached out because when I said to her "I'd like to be in touch again" I didn't add "so let's get coffee- when are you free?"  She knew full well she needed to make the effort.  Perhaps i'm a fool to give her another chance -but it's convenient for me, I suggested a walk in the park which I enjoy - and it's an hour or so of my time.  Perhaps she'll share more with me about the ghosting.

Leave the ball in her court and for sure don't hide behind a screen and ramble on about your musicals interest.  I was in a serious relationship for years with a musical theater person, I've known and know many theater people, I worked with theater people, took acting lessons, love it.  I also have known personally famous musicians, love music, love musical artists.  And I get the whole level of interest and how special it is and I love hearing peoples' stories. As a woman I'd hate being contacted by you again in this situation and would see the musical theater stuff as completely transparent and salesy/pushy.  

But then why would she open the door with that conversation in the first place, if she didn’t expect me to engage? That makes no sense.

[Whirling D]

10 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

I would be less reliant on social media.  If you're unnaturally enthusiastic, many women consider it a warning to beware so naturally, they'll behave in a standoffish manner. 

I agree with others.  I would suggest meeting for coffee or lunch and gradually and slowly nurture the friendship.  See if the friendship can be elevated to a relationship level.  Take baby steps.  Get to know the woman and allow her to get to know you, too.  In person conversations are so important.  It requires time and patience.  Don't rush and don't be in a hurry otherwise you'll scare her off.  

Be natural and don't be over zealous.  Listen a lot and never interrupt.  People love to talk about themselves.  Be humble, modest, gracious, well mannered, sincere and gentlemanly.  Most women love that.  Stellar character is everything.

Don't over do it with electronic communication or correspondence such as text, messages, emails and voicemails.  If a woman is local, focus on in person dialogue. 

My condolences for losing your Dad. 

 

Thank you. I appreciate that.

i’m kind of hesitant to just ask her out somewhere now, since I kind of did… And got no response. I think she’s wicked anxious about men and dating right now, or maybe just me, I don’t know. I just don’t really see a way through this unless she gives me another sign, although that seemed like a pretty good sign at first.

 

 

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, Whirling D said:

Thank you. I appreciate that.

i’m kind of hesitant to just ask her out somewhere now, since I kind of did… And got no response. I think she’s wicked anxious about men and dating right now, or maybe just me, I don’t know. I just don’t really see a way through this unless she gives me another sign, although that seemed like a pretty good sign at first.

 

 

Or I'd go with the default instead of playing armchair therapist/analyst-she's just not that into you.  And that's ok.

[Cherylyn]

12 hours ago, Whirling D said:

Thank you. I appreciate that.

i’m kind of hesitant to just ask her out somewhere now, since I kind of did… And got no response. I think she’s wicked anxious about men and dating right now, or maybe just me, I don’t know. I just don’t really see a way through this unless she gives me another sign, although that seemed like a pretty good sign at first.

 

 

If there's no response,  she's not interested.  I'm sorry.  Perhaps she's not for you.  It's time to move on. 

[lostandhurt]

Let me blunt.

You are looking for something that is not there.  You want to see the tinniest of green flags because you have imagined this woman as a potential romantic interest when in fact she is only a fb friend.  By the way fb is not a dating site even though people do occasionally make a connection on the site.

 Now if this woman was on a dating site and responded to your messages it would be different.

Simply put.  You want/hope that she is interested at least a little so you can meet and win her over.

Reading all your responses it seems you need a hard no before you accept she isn't interested so send her one more message and ask her out to coffee to get to know each other better.  Either she will answer yes or no, drop you as a friend or simply ignore your request.  At that point you have to accept that she does not want to date you.

  You would be better off learning to accept what you see than trying to find some nugget of hope in a rejection.

 Lost

[Whirling D]

21 hours ago, Cherylyn said:

If there's no response,  she's not interested.  I'm sorry.  Perhaps she's not for you.  It's time to move on. 

Well, if she’s not for me, I have a little faith that anyone is, because this girl is about as well matched for me as I can likely get, based on what I know of her. But she’s got tall broad shouldered pushy bearded guys all over the place after her, so the competition is fierce.

I have been hearing numerous reports by dating “experts“ that say that a lot of nice women are almost afraid to date guys they know that are nice, because they don’t want to get their hearts broken. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case here. She has clearly had her heart broken in the not too distant past.  It’s all about attraction, and I attract almost no one. Ever. At least ones that I’m interested in.

 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Well, if she’s not for me, I have a little faith that anyone is, because this girl is about as well matched for me as I can likely get, based on what I know of her. But she’s got tall broad shouldered pushy bearded guys all over the place after her, so the competition is fierce.

I have been hearing numerous reports by dating “experts“ that say that a lot of nice women are almost afraid to date guys they know that are nice, because they don’t want to get their hearts broken. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case here. She has clearly had her heart broken in the not too distant past.  It’s all about attraction, and I attract almost no one. Ever. At least ones that I’m interested in.

 

I'd assume she's just not that into you.  The right match for you is a person who is into you as well as all the other stuff. She by definition is not the right match since she is not interested in dating you.  I'm sorry you're disappointed.