Dating strategy advice

[Whirling D]

48 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'd assume she's just not that into you.  The right match for you is a person who is into you as well as all the other stuff. She by definition is not the right match since she is not interested in dating you.  I'm sorry you're disappointed.

It’s the story of my life, believe me.

I was involved in a wonderful activity over the last few weeks, and befriended some lovely ladies. Of course, they are all partnered with guys way taller than I am with broad shoulders and bushy beards.  Standard fare.

Yes, I am feeling sorry for myself and feeling disgruntled. I’ve had several ladies recently that I’ve had fantastic interactions with, and they’re just not interested.  I don’t believe it’s that I’m not friendly, or charming, or interesting. It’s how I look. It’s always been that way, even when I was a kid. Kind of makes me pissed.

[SunshineBaby7]

I wouldn't pursue her, judging by her actions it - doesn't seem interested and I wouldn't waste my time. I'm sorry, I hope one day it works out but it is not worth your time/energy wanting something from someone where the feelings aren't reciprocated. 

[boltnrun]

Have you ever seen a shorter beardless man with narrow shoulders with a wife or girlfriend? No? Never? Not one single time? Every man you see who has a partner is tall, broad shouldered and has a beard?

[Batya33]

I’m sorry you’re feeling down. I can relate. I had those times when I was single and wanted to be married.  It’s tough out there. I hope the feeling passes soon. 

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Have you ever seen a shorter beardless man with narrow shoulders with a wife or girlfriend? No? Never? Not one single time? Every man you see who has a partner is tall, broad shouldered and has a beard?

Where I live, almost never. I live in an affluent area. I guess I am an affluent wanna be… I did my time and worked hard, and I live in a place where other people did their time and worked hard.  They just don’t look like me. As you probably heard me spew a few months ago, I’m not from around here, I don’t look like the people here, and I don’t really speak the same language as the local culture, so to speak. That makes me stand out a little bit, or be a bit of an oddball, if you will.  
 

Not to mention, I’m kind of an aged rock ‘n’ roller with longer hair, and speak softly and look effeminate… which probably doesn’t jive well with middle-aged professional affluent women, which is pretty much what surrounds me, and who I also want to attract.  My bad.  I think they admire what they think I represent, but I suspect they would never date me, even if they were single. I’m not their kind. As mentioned, the catch du jour is tall broad-shouldered men with a masculine look and a beard.  And no doubt an income two or three times more than mine.  

There is a reason that I get no hits on dating sites. I get none. And it’s not because I’m not nice, or because I don’t have an interesting profile, or I don’t have good pictures, or that I don’t write fun engaging messages to the girls I am interested in… I’m just not the kind of guy most women my age look for… Or at least ones that I find interesting.

OK… I admit, there is one lady who has been basically throwing herself at me for about the last three months. She’s the grandmother of a kid I teach… But I don’t find her interesting, or attractive. We have almost nothing in common, but she Literally drools all over her device when she’s texting me. Offers to send me nudes.  I’m just not interested.

So, I can’t say there is no women At all that show me attention online. Just not ones that I think I would be at all interested in.

it just boggles my mind really.  I’m on a local Facebook dating site, as well, and I’m certainly not the only one that is encountering this. It seems to be that you either have it or you don’t.  I think it’s the same with women.  

 

 

 

 

[boltnrun]

I live in an affluent area of a large suburb of a major metropolis. I go for walks in my city multiple times per week. I do not see a proliferation of tall, broad shouldered men with beards. I see a diverse population and all sorts of people are paired up.

There's a perception from outsiders that all of the women here are size two blondes with double D breasts and deep tans. And they're on the arms of muscly, tattooed bros or chisel jawed male models driving Porsche convertibles. It's hilarious because it's so far from reality. 

I can't say that your reality is false or that you're operating under a misconception because I'm not there. I know there are some parts of the US where the Marlboro Man is the ideal (say, Montana, Texas or Arizona). But that doesn't mean the accountant or IT nerd can't find a woman.

But I'm not sure pursuing a woman from Facebook who seems to be polite and friendly but not particularly romantically interested is your best bet. You seem to believe this woman is your last best chance at finding someone but it's a super long shot at best based on what you've told us. But still, why not invite her to meet you for coffee? As they say, one never knows. And you wouldn't really be losing anything if she politely declines. 

[Cherylyn]

6 hours ago, Whirling D said:

Well, if she’s not for me, I have a little faith that anyone is, because this girl is about as well matched for me as I can likely get, based on what I know of her. But she’s got tall broad shouldered pushy bearded guys all over the place after her, so the competition is fierce.

I have been hearing numerous reports by dating “experts“ that say that a lot of nice women are almost afraid to date guys they know that are nice, because they don’t want to get their hearts broken. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case here. She has clearly had her heart broken in the not too distant past.  It’s all about attraction, and I attract almost no one. Ever. At least ones that I’m interested in.

 

There will be other well matched women for you.  You just have to have faith and remain patient.  Be very picky and choosy.  Ignore other guys.  You have yourself to offer.  Many women prefer high quality character and supremely high standards and values.  Never underestimate what women perceive in a man.

Experts don't know everything.  I wasn't afraid to date my nice husband.  He ticked all the boxes.  My heart wasn't broken, fortunately.  Many women are experienced with interacting with all sorts of men even if it was platonic and observing men in society.  Women have experience with friends and family.  I can't tell you how many countless disdainful men I've encountered in my lifetime.  Women know more than you think they know.  I for one.  Most women are not attracted to men who are unkind or not nice.  Most women prefer to be treated with respect which is universal.

Don't be negative.  It's a great big world out there.  Don't be in a hurry nor rush.  The right woman is out there for you.  Both of you hadn't found each other yet. 

[Batya33]

Do you feel comfortable speaking softly and appearing effeminate or do you wish you could change how you speak/present yourself?

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Do you feel comfortable speaking softly and appearing effeminate or do you wish you could change how you speak/present yourself?

That’s an interesting question, Bat.

I don’t think I spend a lot of time thinking about it, until I observe what I observed during my activity over the last week. All these really nice ladies that I think I would relate to well, and all of them with really tall broad shouldered guys that could probably land movie contracts. I don’t fault them, I guess. There seems to be enough tall good-looking guys around here to snap up all of the nice ladies. 

I guess I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about how I present myself physically. I figure I just am who I am, and you either can relate to who I am or you can’t.  I do OK just to chat with people, but dating is a whole other boat full of holes.
 

if I meet someone, and begin chatting with them, I’m not really thinking about whether I’m tall and broad shouldered, or effeminate. I’m kind of concentrating on what’s right in front of me, and they hear and now.

I tried to practice speaking to a nice lady today when I went out early this morning to a coffee shop a half an hour from here, which I typically go to once or twice a week. Not only do I love their pastries and hot beverages, but I like to go just to have some contact with people and hope that maybe I’ll bump into somebody to chat with. I can be kind of chatty, which doesn’t always go over hugely well here, because I live in a fairly guarded culture. If people know you, then chatty is good, but where I come from up in Canada, strangers chat each other up, and it’s considered normal.  That’s how people are.

Down here where I am in the US, a lot of people, although not all people, but a lot of people think it’s kind of odd if you just start chatting with strangers in a friendly manner.

Anyway, there was a very cute girl that came into the coffee shop. Of course she was way way younger than I am, and I wasn’t expecting to get any dates out of the deal, but I wanted to try to just chat for a moment with this girl, and just before she left I bantered with her for a moment. Just a moment. But it was nice. This is the kind of girl that I’m sure that has lots of guys trying to chat her up, so it wouldn’t surprise me if she thought it was a bit creepy, but I didn’t really care. As I usually do, I just tried to present as being friendly, smiley and interested.  
 

I do this fairly often, and just chat with people. Doesn’t really get me anywhere. I’ve almost never been invited to a party, or to anyone’s house. Let alone on a date.

[Batya33]

Two quick things.

I want to clarify -if you are comfortable in your own skin I applaud you - no I would not have dated someone with long hair, not have dated someone who presented in an effeminate way. But I know of many women who did, who do, etc.  Kettle for every pot.  Please please you do you I just was curious as to whether you were comfortable in your own skin-you are - and that's great to hear.

Second - I grew up 9 miles from the part of my huge city that was teeming with singles.  Really high rent district. As soon as I was ready to move out -I was 28 - I went for broke and moved into said high rent district teeming with single professionals like me so I could never ever be GU (Geographically Undersirable LOL) - so I could walk to work and work my ridiculously crazy hours and still have time for a social life since I typically could walk to and or get to quickly by train any desirable spot in that part of the city. 

I did that because that's how badly I wanted to increase my chances of meeting the right person.  I am not suggesting at all that you move -just saying from my perspective -if you don't have to live there and can move -would you? To perhaps live among more like minded people? Ironically when my future husband and I first dated he lived near where I'd moved from and within a few months moved to ten blocks away from me.  But when we reconnected he actually then lived about 900 miles away.  Life is strange.

I would not have been able to meet suitable men for me if I lived lets say in an artists' community with people who loved Burning Man (yes one guy I almost met through a dating site was a Burning Man person lol).  But I had and have many friends who are artists of a variety of types- but I wasn't likely to marry the sort of artist who lived more like a "hippy" despite having no judgment of the person as a person.

Just sharing my observations about your focus on where you live geographically and certainly there might be essential reasons why you live there!

[boltnrun]

I doubt the young woman found you "creepy". You weren't leering or following her around panting. I bet she thought you were nice. 

Attractive women have men leering at them all the time. They appreciate someone who just has a nice, normal conversation instead of trying to get into their pants. 

[Whirling D]

8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Two quick things.

I want to clarify -if you are comfortable in your own skin I applaud you - no I would not have dated someone with long hair, not have dated someone who presented in an effeminate way. But I know of many women who did, who do, etc.  Kettle for every pot.  Please please you do you I just was curious as to whether you were comfortable in your own skin-you are - and that's great to hear.

Second - I grew up 9 miles from the part of my huge city that was teeming with singles.  Really high rent district. As soon as I was ready to move out -I was 28 - I went for broke and moved into said high rent district teeming with single professionals like me so I could never ever be GU (Geographically Undersirable LOL) - so I could walk to work and work my ridiculously crazy hours and still have time for a social life since I typically could walk to and or get to quickly by train any desirable spot in that part of the city. 

I did that because that's how badly I wanted to increase my chances of meeting the right person.  I am not suggesting at all that you move -just saying from my perspective -if you don't have to live there and can move -would you? To perhaps live among more like minded people? Ironically when my future husband and I first dated he lived near where I'd moved from and within a few months moved to ten blocks away from me.  But when we reconnected he actually then lived about 900 miles away.  Life is strange.

I would not have been able to meet suitable men for me if I lived lets say in an artists' community with people who loved Burning Man (yes one guy I almost met through a dating site was a Burning Man person lol).  But I had and have many friends who are artists of a variety of types- but I wasn't likely to marry the sort of artist who lived more like a "hippy" despite having no judgment of the person as a person.

Just sharing my observations about your focus on where you live geographically and certainly there might be essential reasons why you live there!

Thanks, Bat.

I tend to think most women that I would be attracted to would not date a guy like me. Not tall. Long hair. Make no money. Kind of effeminate and gentle.  It’s just not what women like around here. It just isn’t.

I would be considered lower value, but in my heart, I feel like I have a fair amount to offer a potential partner, although that is diminishing with age and the fact that I am losing hope.  I think in the eyes of others I am low value. Many, including my therapist, and probably you, say that as a self fulfilling prophecy, but it has been reinforced with facts for years and years.

I remember when I was in my late 20s, I was a real estate broker, and I met this lovely woman who was a few years younger than me, she was a relatively tall and very sweet. I wore her down with kindness and attention until she finally became my girlfriend for a couple of years, but it was constantly strained, because it was continually reinforced that I wasn’t who she really sought.  She made it clear that I wasn’t her type. She wanted tall, broad shouldered, masculine, short haired, religious, and highly educated. She said those things repeatedly.

She couldn’t get past those things, and of course that was to her own detriment, because I knew she cared for me. She just couldn’t get over the preconceived notion of what she wanted.

In many ways, I’m not much different. I have a preconceived notion of what I would think would make me happy. It’s not Christie Brinkley or Cindy Crawford, but just some nice decent kind of cute educated girl. But they aren’t choosing guys like me.  
 

One of the downer things about social media is that one can often compare their own lives with others. I’m pretty social media savvy, so I can find people with very little information… So if I meet someone, I can usually find them on social media. It reinforces this negative attitude that I have when I see who they are partnered with. First off, I never see guys that look like me around here, ever. Second, almost every woman that I have seen that I find interesting is partnered with the kind of guy that I have described. Every. Single. Time. And why shouldn’t they be? If that is their dream, and they meet this guy somewhere and that guy shows interest… It’s a no-brainer. That just leaves me under the 10 inches of snow we’re supposed to get today.

it’s really sweet and all to see folks on here say… “Just be patient, because the universe will bring the right person your way“. It’s bull***. I don’t have time for that nonsense. I’m out there doing the things I know how to do in order to meet someone like that, and it just keeps failing, even with girls that I think don’t have as much on the table as I do. They are interested in the ones that have more on the table than I have. I hate to say this, because it sounds judgmental, and yes I will be judgmental, but even lower value women seem to be able to attract and attain higher value men than I am.  

i’m even boring myself talking about this. My therapist rolls her eyes and says that I am creating this in my mind, which is also bull***, because she hasn’t walked in my shoes and been demeaned by women, and men, as I have throughout my entire life. I could go on and on with stories.

 I was very lucky to be part of the activity over the last couple of weeks, because I met some absolutely fabulous people, mostly women. It’s just that they were all partnered with tall broad shouldered guys with beards. Every. Single. One of them.

And just to clarify… I live an hour outside of a major city, in a small town environment, because my former spouse and I bought the house that I am in, and my daughter lives with me part time, although she doesn’t want to, and I really can’t move because I couldn’t get another mortgage anyway.

My mother jokes with me often that she believes that I live under a dark cloud, and the darkness has followed me around for most of my life. She sees it.

I lost my career as a teacher six years ago, because I had a boss who didn’t like who I was, and it had nothing to do with whether I was a nice person, or a hard worker, or decent with the population I was serving. It was just a feeling she had she couldn’t shake. She found reasons to force me out of my position, and I will likely never work in that field again. 

I’ve had many jobs where I’ve been harassed for nothing more than me being a decent kind person in my workplace that just didn’t fit in. I remember I worked at a restaurant once, and I never said boo to anybody, but I went into the kitchen once and the line cook just looked at me and said… “I don’t like you, so stay away from me or I’ll kick your ass“  Really, dude? This is how you treat people that you don’t even know?  God, I could go on and on with stories like this.

I don’t look like people here. I don’t speak with the same dialect as people here. I don’t have the same character as the people here. I just don’t. I’ve been here 40 years and I have known it since almost the day I stepped on the soil here.

I can remember walking down the hall in the high school that I only attended for 2/3 of my senior year, after landing here from a different country, and I remember the typical boy either deliberately bashing into me with their shoulder, or messing my hair up as they walked by. They were punks. I was a shy simple kid from a different world. almost no one had any interest in who I was, except for this one stoner kid who I befriended. And we had nothing in common.

Yeah, dark clouds.

Two days ago, I got a letter from the Department of Education. I worked in public service for almost 20 years, so I applied under a new program that would allow my $90,000 of school loans to be forgiven. I needed 120 payments to have them forgiven. I was told two days ago I had 119. With almost no real income, I will be soon forced to continue paying that debt, with only one month deficit, in a career that I would be hard-pressed to be able to be hired in without the proper references.  If that isn’t a cloud I am living under, I don’t know what is. 

And all I really am pining about right now is finding a nice girl that seems like me to befriend.  I have yet to see many girls like that here… With the exception of a few here and there. And we know who they are partnered with.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

10 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

 even lower value women seem to be able to attract and attain higher value men than I am. 

Perhaps a huge step forward for you would be to discontinue reading manoshere (red pill, PUA, incels, etc). This would help you  to just be yourself and not use so many stereotypes of yourself, your current demographics and women.

Once you cease reading material and using the jargon and sentiments of these hate cults, you could recover and reframe your thinking to  more independent and positive changes.

As long as you stay in the mindset of "Chads" vs you, and the defeatist attitude that accompanies it,  you'll feel awful. Try to break free and celebrate your individuality.

[Batya33]

I'm not going to argue with you to convince you that you are self-sabotaging with your horrible self-labeling which makes no sense.  I will say it's on you that you'd stay with a person who made such obnoxious comments to you let alone convince her to be with you - did you enjoy the thrill of the chase or something? 

I never ever tell people to rely on fate.  I think often luck and timing are factors, they help -not just in romance -for me in my professional life too but most often with rare exception a healthy LTR does not "find you" - can "love" or "infatuation" "find you?"

You have to be out there, proactive, from a positive perspective, and also own that the type of woman you are most attracted to likely is not the best match for you given your preferences to wear your hair long and yes most people who look for long term want financial stability.  I did because I offered it in return from my end (not "rich" -stable, with similar financial values). I'm sorry about your career related struggles too.  Do you speak of those struggles with your therapist? Have you ever considered Toastmasters to improve how you present yourself? 

Can you "catch feelings" (hate that phrase) - of course!  But that's just so minor if the goal is finding a healthful LTR/marriage/committed situation. It's not minor for a person who simply loves to be "in love" and loves the thrill of the chase and basking in the high of the feelings.  It's not about The Universe or Fate or some abstract feeling "finding you" or "when you least expect it" (although on the flip side desperation smells bad for sure -so looking from a desperate/woe is me mindset gets you .... nowhere or like that woman you chased who treated you so rudely.

Again you're determined to marshal up facts to support your theory -bet if you marshaled up other facts you'd have a very different outlook.  But I'm not here to tell you to do that for a number of reasons. Good luck.

[Whirling D]

17 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I'm not going to argue with you to convince you that you are self-sabotaging with your horrible self-labeling which makes no sense.  I will say it's on you that you'd stay with a person who made such obnoxious comments to you let alone convince her to be with you - did you enjoy the thrill of the chase or something? 

I never ever tell people to rely on fate.  I think often luck and timing are factors, they help -not just in romance -for me in my professional life too but most often with rare exception a healthy LTR does not "find you" - can "love" or "infatuation" "find you?"

You have to be out there, proactive, from a positive perspective, and also own that the type of woman you are most attracted to likely is not the best match for you given your preferences to wear your hair long and yes most people who look for long term want financial stability.  I did because I offered it in return from my end (not "rich" -stable, with similar financial values). I'm sorry about your career related struggles too.  Do you speak of those struggles with your therapist? Have you ever considered Toastmasters to improve how you present yourself? 

Can you "catch feelings" (hate that phrase) - of course!  But that's just so minor if the goal is finding a healthful LTR/marriage/committed situation. It's not minor for a person who simply loves to be "in love" and loves the thrill of the chase and basking in the high of the feelings.  It's not about The Universe or Fate or some abstract feeling "finding you" or "when you least expect it" (although on the flip side desperation smells bad for sure -so looking from a desperate/woe is me mindset gets you .... nowhere or like that woman you chased who treated you so rudely.

Again you're determined to marshal up facts to support your theory -bet if you marshaled up other facts you'd have a very different outlook.  But I'm not here to tell you to do that for a number of reasons. Good luck.

My therapist says the same thing, and that my negative outlook is driving my outcome. It’s bull***. What’s driving my outlook is an entire adult life that has been filled with bullying, disrespect from women, and a complete lack of interest from women. All but completely. Those are facts, not a negative mindset that has come from nothing.  

There’s nothing wrong with how I present myself, unless of course you don’t like long hair, a feminine look and demeanor, and a smiling face. And I present as a decent interactive and relatively fun fellow. What has that gotten me over the past 40 years here? Pretty much nothing. 

So, you can spin it anyway you want. The facts speak for themselves.

[boltnrun]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you been married?

[TheCrow]

18 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I'm not going to argue with you to convince you that you are self-sabotaging with your horrible self-labeling which makes no sense.  I will say it's on you that you'd stay with a person who made such obnoxious comments to you let alone convince her to be with you - did you enjoy the thrill of the chase or something? 

I never ever tell people to rely on fate.  I think often luck and timing are factors, they help -not just in romance -for me in my professional life too but most often with rare exception a healthy LTR does not "find you" - can "love" or "infatuation" "find you?"

You have to be out there, proactive, from a positive perspective, and also own that the type of woman you are most attracted to likely is not the best match for you given your preferences to wear your hair long and yes most people who look for long term want financial stability.  I did because I offered it in return from my end (not "rich" -stable, with similar financial values). I'm sorry about your career related struggles too.  Do you speak of those struggles with your therapist? Have you ever considered Toastmasters to improve how you present yourself? 

Can you "catch feelings" (hate that phrase) - of course!  But that's just so minor if the goal is finding a healthful LTR/marriage/committed situation. It's not minor for a person who simply loves to be "in love" and loves the thrill of the chase and basking in the high of the feelings.  It's not about The Universe or Fate or some abstract feeling "finding you" or "when you least expect it" (although on the flip side desperation smells bad for sure -so looking from a desperate/woe is me mindset gets you .... nowhere or like that woman you chased who treated you so rudely.

Again you're determined to marshal up facts to support your theory -bet if you marshaled up other facts you'd have a very different outlook.  But I'm not here to tell you to do that for a number of reasons. Good luck.

I didn't give a rat's backside about financial stability when I met my husband. Because I fell madly in love with this totally beautiful man who kissed my hands and said 'I adore you'.  We're now as inancially stable as people like us will ever be.

 

OP..I have a feeling you're in the wrong part of the world. And I love love love long hair on men..

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, TheCrow said:

I didn't give a rat's backside about financial stability when I met my husband. Because I fell madly in love with this totally beautiful man who kissed my hands and said 'I adore you'.  We're now as inancially stable as people like us will ever be.

 

OP..I have a feeling you're in the wrong part of the world. And I love love love long hair on men..

Yes of course it takes all kinds and it's so individual as I wrote above about women who are turned on by long hair, etc. To clarify I wasn't at all judging or criticizing people who make decisions based on factors entirely different from mine or partly the same or whatever.

  I wanted to fall madly in love and  -then I made a decision based on head and heart when it came to marriage and financial stability was one thing on my relatively short list of musts. I would have married someone who was temporarily unemployed as long as he was financially stable, had a strong work ethic like mine, was ambitious and had financial values compatible with mine that supported financial stability.  That was essential to me. It's certainly not essential to everyone -I can think of many reasons why that would be and obviously as you put it you didn't care -it's all good!

I wouldn't have married someone with dealbreakers based on fallling madly in love.  If someone asked me for my input and we were close personal friends and the man she was madly in love with was not right for her long term I'd explore that with her.  If she didn't ask me -I would keep my mouth shut entirely with rare exception (like abuse or similar)

  Other people make the decision differently and or don't choose marriage as a form of commitment or don't choose the opposite gender. It's all good and what makes the world so interesting!  The OP is so insightful and honest about who he is. He should stay as he is unless he decides he wants to make changes for himself.

[Whirling D]

7 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you been married?

Yes I was married, but in many ways it was a fraud.

she told me as we were divorcing that was she was sorry that for the year we were engaged she was putting on an act to be who she knew I wanted her to be just so I would marry her.

she has pretty deep psychological impairments. I don’t mean to demean her, because she is a very good lady, but she is very scarred.

thankfully, we mostly remain as good friends, almost like siblings now after about seven or eight years of not being together.

[Whirling D]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Yes of course it takes all kinds and it's so individual as I wrote above about women who are turned on by long hair, etc. To clarify I wasn't at all judging or criticizing people who make decisions based on factors entirely different from mine or partly the same or whatever.

  I wanted to fall madly in love and  -then I made a decision based on head and heart when it came to marriage and financial stability was one thing on my relatively short list of musts. I would have married someone who was temporarily unemployed as long as he was financially stable, had a strong work ethic like mine, was ambitious and had financial values compatible with mine that supported financial stability.  That was essential to me. It's certainly not essential to everyone -I can think of many reasons why that would be and obviously as you put it you didn't care -it's all good!

I wouldn't have married someone with dealbreakers based on fallling madly in love.  If someone asked me for my input and we were close personal friends and the man she was madly in love with was not right for her long term I'd explore that with her.  If she didn't ask me -I would keep my mouth shut entirely with rare exception (like abuse or similar)

  Other people make the decision differently and or don't choose marriage as a form of commitment or don't choose the opposite gender. It's all good and what makes the world so interesting!  The OP is so insightful and honest about who he is. He should stay as he is unless he decides he wants to make changes for himself.

Thank you, Bat… That is very kind of you.

it’s hard to really see myself through other people‘s eyes, because I can’t possibly know what others see. I do know what’s in my heart, and I do know how I believe I present myself… And I feel pretty good about that.… Decency, kindness, a little bit of shyness, a little bit of an edge once you get to know me… But that’s a bit of the problem… Once you get to know me. Not many do, because I don’t get that many opportunities. 

I probably said before that when I was in my career, which was a teacher, I always walked through my building smiling, ready to engage, and friendly… I couldn’t tell you in a million years why I was never once invited to a party, or to have lunch with somebody, or to join a group for something. Ever. Except for my immediate team of three other teachers, I mean. And that was always nice. 

I haven’t been to a party or a gathering since I can remember. I currently service about 15 families with the work that I do, and I see them once a week. Most of them treat me like family, and I know their kids well because that’s who I work with, but in about the six years I’ve been doing this, only one family has ever invited me to participate in an activity outside of that work.

For my entire adult life, I can’t remember ever being invited to a party or a gathering, unless it was of a friend of a friend, or something like that. I don’t really make friends. I couldn’t tell you why. I think people just think I’m a little bit of an oddball.

My daughter constantly says that. She’s only 15, and I expect her to diss her dad, but she works at a large supermarket chain, and I will go in and just start chatting with whoever is there, and she gets really embarrassed and says things like… “dad, you’re not funny… No one wants to talk to you…“  I joke with her about it, and tell her that someday she will see that people do want to talk to strangers, and they do enjoy chatting and being joked with while they are working.  But still, it’s a bit triggering to hear her say that, because the results almost weigh in on her side. No one follows it up. Almost ever.

I said this before, but I do think it is a bit of a cultural difference. When I go back to Canada to visit, almost any store I go into there are people that will engage in a very lighthearted chat and seem interested in connection. I think people are much more likely to be that way up there. Where I am here, if people need to provide a service, they will certainly talk to you, and joke with you, but down here, it almost seems like people talk at you, rather than talk with you, if that distinction makes sense.  They will say stuff to you, and enjoy it, but then go right onto the next thought when done. I think there are just so many people down here, and it’s too much for a person’s brain to fully engage each person.

I think people have to evaluate and make judgments fairly quickly.  And in my case, I think they judge that I’m a nice guy, but I am low value. And it’s not because of the way I interact… it’s how I look. We all do it. We all make judgments of the people we meet based on how they look.  I do it. If I meet someone, I quickly make what might even be a subconscious judgment about who they are and what value they have to my needs. If it’s a lady, it’s usually pretty clear fairly quickly. I’m not proud that I judge like that, but I think that’s what people do, particularly when you are in a place that has so many people that you encounter on a regular basis.  A lot of times, those judgments are based on physical characteristics… Am I attracted to this lady? Do I feel warmth emanating off this lady? I think it has to be both. I feel like I don’t attract people here. Maybe it’s the way I look. Maybe it’s the way I talk.

I remember a time a couple of years ago that I was talking to a guy on the phone about a musical situation he had advertised. Maybe I advertised, I forget. We spoke for about 10 minutes, and he suddenly got agitated and said something like… “ I can tell I could never work with you. You’re just so full of yourself and you’re not listening to what I’m saying“ the call got a little testy after that when I tried to be proactive and ask him what his concerns were, and he just got nasty and said some nasty things that were hurtful. I didn’t get it. I was just being my usual thoughtful self, asking questions, describing my interests, and trying to be decent. And that’s what I got?  

so, I realize that I irritate people for some reason that I don’t often quite understand. And I don’t really care to anymore, truthfully. I’ve gotten to an age where I’m having less tolerance for people like that who will nitpick for reasons beyond my understanding. If that’s the way they want to be, so be it. But it still hurts to hear someone speak to you like that for no reason other than the way you interact with them.  I’ve had that happen repeatedly most of my adult life. Maybe everyone has, who knows. Maybe because I’m a little on the soft spoken side that it might give some people license to feel that they can be abusive to you. Who knows.

Of course, if I was a Robin Williams, and I had a personality a mile high, I could make up for a lot of this, and I do see that occurrence. But I’m not. I am a simple, generally pleasant big kid. That goes over OK upon first meeting, but it doesn’t round first base and head towards second. I think most people appreciate how I engage, but they’re not interested in taking it further than that, likely for the reasons above. 

The women I meet, and who I have been reaching out to lately, are good people. They are higher value. They will engage me, and talk for a bit, and I can tell they’re just not interested and they move on… like the lady that this post was referring to. She said she’d admires me. To me that is a major statement. I don’t hear that often. She had the courage to reach out and say that. But for whatever reasons, she won’t go further than that. Nor will the other several that I’ve encountered recently. And the ones before that. It goes on and on.

If I was 6 feet or taller, or had short hair, I’d be undoubtedly higher value. I have seen it in Canada. I see guys that look a lot more like I do who are about 4 inches taller than I am, and they are with higher value women. The kind of women I would enjoy knowing.  It’s so obviously clear why.

when I look at the countless Facebook profiles of the women that I find interesting and attractive, they are almost always looking up into the eyes adoringly of their spouse or partner. Dating gurus say that women value feeling safe and secure with their partner. Because of my small and slim profile, I’m not going to be making too many women feel safe and secure, I doubt. That’s a physical characteristic I just can’t project. I think that’s a huge deficit.

it’s a social hierarchy, and I am much lower on that totem.  It just is what it is, and I have to manage it. It doesn’t stop me from pursuing lady friends, it just seems to give me little hope that I’ll actually find what I have in my head.  That can be frustrating and saddening… A little angering all rolled up into one.

 

 

[boltnrun]

You keep using the term "higher value women". What exactly constitutes "higher value"? And what do you consider "lower value"? 

[Batya33]

16 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You keep using the term "higher value women". What exactly constitutes "higher value"? And what do you consider "lower value"? 

Yes, interesting question.  I never evaluated people in that way.  It's so odd to see it written that way. FYI my husband is short (I am too -yes I know it's harder for a man to be short!!) - I love his values, his character his integrity I admire him so much and actually in particular his type B ways- I am type A and being married to him I on my own -my own volition -have tried so hard to take more type B outlooks, actions, mindsets.  He is reserved, shy and quiet and people like him a lot. 

He is humble maybe a bit self deprecating at times but also is just really good at public speaking plus also speaking to people one on one in his quieter, more reserved way.  He is so respectful and polite and appropriate with everyone.  His parents were the same especially his dad, RIP.  His well educated professional dad who also had his own tool box and was so handy and oh he loved to garden and cook too.  Please stop with the high value and low value -most people are a hybrid an a mish mash.  Makes life more fun and interesting than labeling and categorizing ad nauseum

I dated some really tall men and thank goodness one had a sunken living room so we could kiss easier standing up lol.  I wasn't as into the taller men. I preferred shorter men -just I don't know my thing.    

[Whirling D]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Yes, interesting question.  I never evaluated people in that way.  It's so odd to see it written that way. FYI my husband is short (I am too -yes I know it's harder for a man to be short!!) - I love his values, his character his integrity I admire him so much and actually in particular his type B ways- I am type A and being married to him I on my own -my own volition -have tried so hard to take more type B outlooks, actions, mindsets.  He is reserved, shy and quiet and people like him a lot. 

He is humble maybe a bit self deprecating at times but also is just really good at public speaking plus also speaking to people one on one in his quieter, more reserved way.  He is so respectful and polite and appropriate with everyone.  His parents were the same especially his dad, RIP.  His well educated professional dad who also had his own tool box and was so handy and oh he loved to garden and cook too.  Please stop with the high value and low value -most people are a hybrid an a mish mash.  Makes life more fun and interesting than labeling and categorizing ad nauseum

I dated some really tall men and thank goodness one had a sunken living room so we could kiss easier standing up lol.  I wasn't as into the taller men. I preferred shorter men -just I don't know my thing.    

The term high value/Low value is a common term used in dating videos, and by dating coaches, etc.

it pretty much means exactly what you could presume… High value would be people who are often sought after and desired… Low value, well, not so much.

Given my history with dating, and how I haven’t been able to attract almost any women my entire adult life, I can only assume that I clearly fit in the low value category.

I am also going to predict that your husband is fairly masculine… I.e., broad shouldered, maybe facial hair… Or balding? Am I close? Ask me how I know.

 

 

 

[boltnrun]

37 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

High value would be people who are often sought after and desired… Low value, well, not so much.

But how does this relate to the kind of woman YOU are looking for? What specific qualities make a woman "high value" to you? Not some vague phrase used by "dating coaches" but qualities you as an individual desire?

[Kwothe28]

13 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Given my history with dating, and how I haven’t been able to attract almost any women my entire adult life, I can only assume that I clearly fit in the low value category.

 

Because you failed to attract a few strangers? That doesnt make you a "low value". Told it today on some other thread, but, not everyone can be a "player". Some have to be just "Average Joes". And with that it comes that you wont attract every woman. Heck, even "players" dont. One of my friends was one in youth. He had height, was athletic and played basketball every day and on top of that had good job and money. I can tell you that even he didnt pass to every woman and was rejected. 

Also, again, you are basing your "value" on some strangers you dont even know. You dont know what they are looking at all, and they dont know you. Most you can say is that they didnt want to get to know you better. Which is fine but doesnt mean you dont have something to offer out there. 

Also, also, even if you dont have something to offer out there, you can work on that. You can go to gym to be more athletic, you can maybe get better job, maybe even try to meet more women so you could meet somebody for you. Its a process, its not a fixed point.