The Modern Dilemma! Opinions on Modern Dating, Love, Life and Career!

[mylolita]

8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Oh that cliche gets posted on FB over and over about you never regret you didn't work more, etc. I think it depends on what the work is.  I don't think artists or writers regret that for example.  I do take it to heart.  Full time work is thought to be 40 hours a week but that's not the measure for management type positions or partners in a firm etc - here it depends on the type of job, the industry, whether it's private or government.  In certain cases anything over 40 hours is OT and must be compensated as such etc but it's not relevant for corporate executives/managers. I'm not familiar with when it applies and when it does not.

I like the contribution I make in my job -to more than the bottom line.  I care about my work and its impact.  So it's a little different for me.

I'm sorry your husband was unwell!! What a wake up call, right? I'm so glad he is better and I do not think you have it easy at all -I cannot imagine all you do especially given how much you solo parent. My husband never ever wanted to be a stay at home dad but he is a parent who loves his son to the moon and back and shows it in all his actions, time, in his heart.  I always knew it would be that way.  His parents were also like that but I knew from knowing him he would be an awesome parent. And he is. 

He has been out since for the last 5 hours with our son -our son finally got to hang with his BFF in person after way too long - typically on Sundays he takes him to lunch and maybe to the park but this was longer and he has been traveling so much that this was much needed -his time with our son, and my me time. My husband works a lot on the weekends so I really appreciate this.  

I scrubbed the bathtub, descaled my coffee maker, went shopping, did all the usual household stuff and started packing for our upcoming trip.Otherwise you know like you my life is so easy LOL.  OK so I also had a lovely long chat with my sister -we haven't caught up in awhile -and that was awesome to do without interruption.  

All I will say is, when I was preforming CPR to keep my husband alive for half an hour before the ambulance came, I was not thinking about, wow, I wished he'd worked more.

I thought a whole slew of things, in blind horror. But, I wish he'd worked more was not one of them. I did think - I just want one more minute. I thought about all the things I wish I'd done differently. I thought about the future, and what it meant for me now he wasn't going to be in it. 

You can think it's a cliche and that's absolutely fine!

I would argue someone writing or painting - it's a passion they would do regardless, therefore, not work. Most people do a job, not a passion or dream. That's why you are paid for it, because you are doing something you normally wouldn't do, trading your time and skills for cash. If you would do it anyway, without payment, then you are living and getting paid for your passion - a true holy grail in life.

I would write everyday whether I was paid for it or not. If I ever did get paid for it, that would be a dream, but the writing is the important part, not the getting paid for it bit. I am going to enjoy writing till the day I die, and I have wrote things from being tiny. It will always be a creative outlet for me. I don't get paid for it. I used to be a dancer, and got paid for that, and felt extremely lucky, again, that I was getting paid for something that was a passion.

If your passion is office work or whatever type of work you do - it could be anything - you are one of the lucky ones. Many people work jobs simply for the money and benefits that job brings, and if they enjoy it now and then they greet that with thankful happiness and carry on. Most people dream of retiring early or doing something they really want to do - a passion, dream or hobby.

Artists are normally living their fantasy. They need/crave/have to create art, paid for it or not. If they can cash in on it, excellent! But if not, they are going to carry on creating art or being creative regardless. The double edged sword to creativity is, creativity isn't business savvy, and doesn't care for rules or business structure one bit. Creativity is creating something just for the pure drive and inspiration of it. The cold facts of business plans fall short, and as you will know, often very creative people are terrible at monetising anything they do, because their brains simply don't work on that level. 

Most people finish jobs and work by time they are 65-70. I will be writing up until my death bed, I am sure of it. It's been my passion and part of my daily life for... my whole life! I need to do it, in fact! If I don't, I wilt. I just do it for the sheer joy of it. My only master is my feelings, the limit of my ability, and time its self!

I hope my husband isn't pinging off e-mails when he is 90. I hope he is relaxing and enjoying himself and soaking up what he really wants to do. For someone so ambitious and driven, he isn't Donald Trump, he has his limits, and I think that is a perfect balance. 

If you want to enjoy anything, I have learnt, you must be in the moment as much as you can be, and not living in the past, or the future too much. I now try to take everyday as it comes, and feel like I got a second chance at life, even though it wasn't me lying on the floor, because, my husband IS my life. People tell me I'm wrong to feel that way, but without him, my best friend, partner in crime? Love of my life? That's it. I know the good times are here - but, I have to enjoy them, best I can. It won't always be this way. 

x

[mylolita]

This thread is maybe a subtle love letter to the male 50% from myself. 

I salute you, and as a woman, I need you - and, I thank you. My father, my grandfathers, my uncle, my son. Your boldness is a mystery to me.

Modern life seems to be forgetting what you did. You stormed the beaches of Normandy. I tuck my children in safe because half the men in my family died fighting for freedom in the world wars. 

My Great Grandfather lied about his age during WW1 to go fight, he was only 14. His brothers told him not to come, it was hell on earth. He went and lived to tell the tale. He became a sniper. In WW2 he was stationed in France, more experienced this time. Everyone died around him, in their battalion only 15 men were left, and my Grandfather lead them back home to their children and wives, alive. So many upper in command died he became in charge by default. He also wrote a diary documenting the whole thing, which is now in a museum.

Salute.

x

[Mammalyssa]

I love how you write Lolita, very eloquent and very expressive. 

I'm enjoying reading your take on men and your admiration for men, I find that in itself an interesting topic. 

I admire men for the same reasons, but then you have the side when you look at history and ask why was it only men who built the earth this way? Was it just because women didn't have the opportunity to contribute and are still fighting to have the same level of respect and to be taken seriously in male dominated industries? The people who do the planning for those big jobs, require big brains not big muscles. Modern architects have many women these days for example. 

But ultimately yes you are correct. Men are stronger. They can physically do the jobs that women are not strong enough to do. Whether we want to admit it or not, we need men to help us with the things we cannot do. It pains me to ever ask for help but yet I am forced to.. I'm too short to reach the top shelf of the pantry and not strong enough to undo the wheel nuts to change a tyre.

We are entering interesting times where the younger generation are more than ever embracing the exploration of gender. There are more numbers than ever of trans people who are trying to live in the other world, and are struggling to be accepted in it.  We are about to see everything we know about gender stereotypes be challenged and scrutinised, and men/women in sports are really going to feel what it's like to be treated as 'equal' when the physicalities of being trans STILL doesn't make that person have the same level of strength that they would have if they were born as the opposite sex. 

 

I dont know where I'm going with this. I admire women too... mother earth nurturing the needs of others. Using their instinct and intuition to guide them and understand things that they shouldn't understand. Holding space for people that arnt coping, whilst putting thier own needs last. 

 

I think we need a balance of everything and to stop fighting about who's boss. We all need each other. Unfortunately I don't think I'll see that ever.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, mylolita said:

But, they run this show.

You obviously don't know and know of the women I know who run the show as far as major contributions to the community, the cities, globally.  And have known for the last 35 plus years (I started to know more women who were like this once I was in college and certainly later in grad school both because of my classes and the internships/jobs I did).  

Building bridges and buildings don't just require physical strength.  They require professionals like architects, engineers, etc - yes in most instances men are physically stronger.  Physical capabilities is only one of many skills needed to make the world go round and contribute to the world in major ways.  If the person wants to of course - not everyone does and people should do what works for the person!

Also don't forget that even before women were allowed to have these sorts of roles you describe many of these men looked to their female partners for guidance, advice, support- not just emotional support.  I suggest you read for example - a minor example -the latest book written on the 10 day disappearance of Agatha Christie (historical fiction but historically accurate as far as Christie's intelligence/ambition/prolific writing). Or I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings and other books about Maya Angelou.  Just one example of many.

I feel badly when I read a perspective like this -to the lengths of the perspective I mean - men and women certainly have differences.  This is not one of them.  And if it is skewed towards men it's likely because women weren't permitted to spread their wings in this way for a very very long time.  I'm so thankful I was and I worked in a male-dominated field for many years- still do although less so now.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, mylolita said:

f your passion is office work or whatever type of work you do - it could be anything - you are one of the lucky ones. Many people work jobs simply for the money and benefits that job brings, and if they enjoy it now and then they greet that with thankful happiness and carry on. Most people dream of retiring early or doing something they really want to do - a passion, dream or hobby.

With all respect no I have no passion for office work.  I don't even particularly know what you are referring to.  You wrote that you haven't worked in many jobs and just based on what you write that is the impression I get -I don't think a person has to have experience in multiple fields to have an opinion but what you write to me reveals a lack of experience/knowledge just like I have no idea what it is like to do the type of work you did but I am not going to offer an opinion on it for that reason.  

Obviously in a life and death situation priorities shift.  My husband had to take life saving measures for me when I was 12 days post partum and convince me to go to the ER.  

The people I know vary widely in their work attitudes -some see full time parenting as just a job -because they didn't choose it, it just makes the most sense in the family - some see their secretarial work as meaningful because it is for a nonprofit and with bosses they've known and respected for decades so it's meaningful for them to know they're making a difference and interact with people they respect who respect them.

Some see their "office work" (if you mean going to an office to do administrative tasks like data entry or tasks that don't focus on brain work as far as creativity/taking initiative/strategizing) as just a job for sure. I did that sort of office work for a few summers during college.  It was just a job to me. I would not want to do that type of work.

My work involves my brain to a large extent, strategizing, planning, interacting with many people and doing it effectively, managing people (less so now), and  true grit to survive the tough deadlines, the setbacks.  Not physical grit.  And yes tons of typing and computer work and sitting at a desk.  So in that sense it is "office work".  There is also a minor percentage of repetitve tasks, administtrative tasks, mind numbing tasks.  Like with all jobs.  That's life.

But when I did multiple shifts to help fundraise for a nonprofit -volunteer - and it was boring work - manning the phones, etc - the work was "just a job" but the outcome was very meaningful to me. Obviously family first but if hypothetically my son had been sick the day of my 4 hour shift and my husband could watch him I would have gone because otherwise I'd be letting this nonprofit I cared about a lot down.  I wasn't paid.  But yes if I heaven forbid had a family emergency it would not have been a thought like "oh no I wish he worked more at fundraising -he would have had a more meaningful life like me" -there are always extremes. 

I know of people who have very high paying positions they do only for the money no matter what it is.  My former mentor is elderly  and still working -he loves his work -he was my mentor - but I know he's doing it for $ now because he still has family to support -I think otherwise he'd take it easier and/or do it more volunteer than for $ or an easier type job. 

One of my friends in his 50s makes a living as a theater-related designer -it's his art, and it's his work.  I have friends who are writers and make their living that way.  To them it is not office work -that would offend them if I called it that -but yes often they sit at a desk and type.  To them it is part of their identity, their passion. 

Four of my women friends published books in the last few years - one fiction (her first novel -she is in her 50s) and three non fiction.  They have children -three of them have young children, one has teens. This is their outside work. They also write articles, etc not just books.

Another friend has two teens including one child with special needs and she is a chef.  For the last several years she's run her own small restaurant.  Cooking and being a chef has been her passion for years.  If she didn't need the $ she'd still work in the field for free I bet.  

I am really really sorry your husband was so unwell. I am so grateful you knew CPR -I need t get recertified -with covid that stopped (one of my colleagues gave a course which I took and I took a long course when my son was an infant) - he is so lucky. 

At my father in law's funeral we who gave eulogies talked of his work because he made such a contribution to the world in his work.  He was not a workaholic at all. 

He also was into gardening and extremely handy around the house.  At my father's funeral I'm sure I talked of his 50 year career in the health care field.  He had a passion for it too. Money did motivate him -he was the main provider! - but it was such a part of his world, his identity, his dedication - which inspired me and my ambition and work ethic (but not in the health care field -blood, etc and me don't mix well!). His dedication paid it forward to me.  

Yes I agree with the cliche in general -in practice I think there is tons of variation. And like I wrote typically I have no issue with people who give opinions on experiences they have never had/not had yet - the opinions you gave just struck me the way I described.  I don't think you should work outside the home unless you want to - your job is major and you are contributing so much!

[boltnrun]

I do administrative work. Trust me when I say this type of work is vital. If I take a day off or am out sick (rare), people are clamoring for me to do things for them and are lamenting that I'm not there. At one point senior management proposed doing away with my position and just having the engineers do the work and you could hear the protests and objections for miles! My work is valuable and needed. And yes, I take a great deal of pride in what I do. I am excellent at my job and am told frequently how much I am valued.

I have had a man I dated talk down about the work I do (he called me an "office girl" despite being in my late 30s at the time, so not a "girl"). He saw women who did my type of work as potential sex partners rather than as a valuable member of the team. Of course I got rid of him lol. I deserve respect for the honest work I do, not condescension.

And I respect ALL honest work no matter what it is. If you are a VP of a corporation or you collect garbage you deserve respect for earning an honest living. And that's why one of my requirements for a date is "gainfully employed". I don't care what it is, just have a job. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

I do administrative work. Trust me when I say this type of work is vital. If I take a day off or am out sick (rare), people are clamoring for me to do things for them and are lamenting that I'm not there. At one point senior management proposed doing away with my position and just having the engineers do the work and you could hear the protests and objections for miles! My work is valuable and needed. And yes, I take a great deal of pride in what I do. I am excellent at my job and am told frequently how much I am valued.

I have had a man I dated talk down about the work I do (he called me an "office girl" despite being in my late 30s at the time, so not a "girl"). He saw women who did my type of work as potential sex partners rather than as a valuable member of the team. Of course I got rid of him lol. I deserve respect for the honest work I do, not condescension.

And I respect ALL honest work no matter what it is. If you are a VP of a corporation or you collect garbage you deserve respect for earning an honest living. And that's why one of my requirements for a date is "gainfully employed". I don't care what it is, just have a job. 

Yes all of this. My mom did administrative work for years and you know she was vital to that office  -I am biased of course about my mom but she was.  They really appreciated her too! Literally one hour one of the administrative assistants I work with caught something that required follow up.  I would have never known this myself -I'm not supposed to, she is and she knows that too and takes pride in her work.  A couple of years ago she asked for donations to her grandson's christian school.  No brainer for me -of course I did.

[Coily]

Somethings that have been creeping around in my idle thoughts with modern dating and relationships.

1: There seems to be very little emphasis for growing together as couples. It is a very static view of relationships that have been embraced by many people; where partners will jump ship before trying to learn how to communicate how changes in thier life or relationship needs to be met by both parties.

2: Men without some mystically proscribed set of relationships or scattering of children are broken and beyond contempt by society (especially with dating). I’m scratching my head and feels like all the time I put into being productive would have been better spent sleeping around (eww). Guess someone on here was right: I’m the greatest and most ignorant threat to civilization simply by being a bachelor. lol 

3: there’s a rampant amount of narcissism about the gym habits in dating. I get being in good health, but it is this gym emphasis that I find off putting. I run a bit, chop wood, garden, all other sorts of physical labor. Have never and will never pay to be looked down upon by people who scoff at my lack of interest in getting my reps in bro.

4: I think people are more wary of each other, while espousing platitudes about getting along with everyone.  It really makes everything eggshells with meeting new people, especially ones in the dating market. Will they go from having a nice conversation, to screaming at you or someone else? There’s little listening and too much talking (like me now).

[Batya33]

I don't fall into any of those categories -and I am 56 but married at 42.  Husband also was 42, never married no kids. On

the gym habit thing -as an outsider to car culture what I've noticed is more of an emphasis on gym=physical exercise for those who drive everywhere especially if they also have sedentary office jobs. 

My friends in my city now where driving is such a focus can't relate to why I'm totally fine a cold, brisk, 24 minute round trip walk to walk my son to school (or for the 5 plus years prior how I managed to wait outside for late school buses in freezing weather in the dark with him).  They drive even if it's a 10 minute walk (well in some cases there are no sidewalks so I get it).

They don't relate to how it's a good thing that on a typical day I walk 1-2 miles just to do errands/shopping, etc.  sometimes pushing a heavy shopping cart uphill (think gym stairmaster with weights lol).  I grew up this way, so did my mother -she and my sister and myself -all naturally thin -partly genetics but partly because we get natural exercise just by living life -my 87 year old mother is walking a little more slowly but her food shopping is 3/4 mile walk round trip and she and her BFF walk about a mile a day otherwise and chat. 

I do go to my building's fitness center daily or power walk outside (which I did all outside for about 18 months of the pandemic at dawn) -I've been working out regularly -mostly cardio- since 1982. 

My husband was a power walker for years (never did weights or anything like that), took a bit of a hiatus (he is not a fan of gyms but has on occasion used a treadmill) - and I did not nag him to resume -I think I made one suggestion early on in our marriage -he said something about me sounding like his mother lol and that was it. He resumed on his own and even asks for my input on whether he should do his power walk under certain conditions.  I stay out of it - so -no-I'm not focused on his gym habits.  He did gain a bit of pandemic weight (I did not but I had to double down on portion control, etc) and I think now that's decreasing.  I think -why- because I don't focus on that.  Yes I care about his overall health a lot.  I do not think big muscles or 6 pack abs are required for good health.

I too was treated with an amount of disrespect and assumptions were made when I was "still single" in my 30s.  What I discovered was judgey people will judge. Now there are judgments about having an "only child," etc.  I think single people are a target of certain judgey people and when parents are out with their young kids, also a target.  

 

[boltnrun]

6 hours ago, Coily said:

I get being in good health, but it is this gym emphasis that I find off putting.

I agree 100%. Why would I want to go to a gym? I see a lot of people who face the mirrors allegedly to check their "form" but it seems so self absorbed. (BTW, I feel the same way about selfies. I know what I look like, so why do I need to take several hundred photos of myself?). I prefer to walk, play sports or do physical chores. Shoot, the most sore I've been lately was from moving! Lifting boxes, rearranging furniture, loading and unloading a truck. That's a workout.

I am not at all attracted to "gym bros" in skin tight cut up tank tops. Ick, no thank you. 

[Wiseman2]

On 11/23/2022 at 1:18 AM, DarkCh0c0 said:

What is up with those dating in your 30s threads lately? I'm starting to think these are for research.

In 2020 The Southern Poverty Law Center  put pressure on reddit to shut down hate groups including Manosphere and it's subreddits such as incels, PUA, etc. Since then many disenfranchised individuals are seeking out new places. Typically with the same sentiments and complaints.

[Coily]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

In 2020 The Southern Poverty Law Center  put pressure on reddit to shut down hate groups including Manosphere and it's subreddits such as incels, PUA, etc. Since then many disenfranchised individuals are seeking out new places. Typically with the same sentiments and complaints.

It’s unfortunate that those kind of groups are so villainized, not that they aren’t prone to being toxic cesspits; but that there is no attempt to genuinely help these men. Especially when you have males who think that society is against them; shutting down places only validates their beliefs.

It really seems that a lot of the men who end up in those spaces feel attacked, and see no way out. The SPLC seems to be creating new business for itself in promoting such exclusion. While I view most of them as silly and self harming, especially those MGTOW types; I try and reach out to the ones I encounter. One, went from a hardcore women are terrible, to now has a wife and expecting a daughter. And I’m a bitter at being single guy. lol 

I guess my broader point is not to revel in their misery like so many want to do. Many are lacking any investment in the current culture; they lack purpose and love. Until that gets addressed we’re only condemning society as a whole.

[Wiseman2]

23 minutes ago, Coily said:

The SPLC seems to be creating new business for itself in promoting such exclusion.

Both the SPLC and The Anti-Defamation League are nonprofit groups who clearly detail what a hate group is vs. support groups.  Both have detailed reports on manosphere groups. These men have the option to seek useful therapy. 

[Coily]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Both the SPLC and The Anti-Defamation League are nonprofit groups who clearly detail what a hate group is vs. support groups.  Both have detailed reports on manosphere groups. These men have the option to seek useful therapy. 

While the reports I have read are decently well put together, I am very reluctant to just blindly agree with any organization that depends on finding monsters under the bed for its funding to be impartial. It’s like trusting Alex Jones for anything other than weird baseless rants.

Also have to hard disagree that therapy will be useful for all of these people on the periphery of society. Some yes; but I think not being treated as an immediate threat and some how irreparably bad will go a long way. You don’t beat a dog acting badly; you correct it and reinforce positive behaviors.

 

[Jibralta]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

On 11/23/2022 at 1:18 AM, DarkCh0c0 said:

What is up with those dating in your 30s threads lately? I'm starting to think these are for research.

In 2020 The Southern Poverty Law Center  put pressure on reddit to shut down hate groups including Manosphere and it's subreddits such as incels, PUA, etc. Since then many disenfranchised individuals are seeking out new places. Typically with the same sentiments and complaints.

That's interesting. There is certainly an obvious and predictable self-defeating pattern to the thought process of those people. Although I do agree with Coily that one group of people villainizing another group misses the point completely. 

As a woman, I found that dating in my 30s was much different than dating in my 20s. The dating pool seemed a lot crappier. I never figured out why that was, but I assumed one possible reason was that the 'marrying men' settled down in their 20s. 

Another thing that I noticed when I was in my 30s is that men seemed a lot less straightforward than they were when I was in my 20s. They played a lot more games. I thought this may have been due to different life experiences. But perhaps it was a byproduct of the 'manosphere' (of which I was blithely unaware). My boyfriend says it was because men start thinking with their brains in their 30s instead of with their you know whats.

Whatever the reason, I definitely saw a difference in dating when I was in my 30s. If some sociologists are researching this, I'd be interested to learn the results.

[Batya33]

I noticed extremely positive differences in my 30s. I had come into my own professionally, no longer had the utter desperation to be married I’d had in my 20s and better hair products were invented for my frizzy mop.
 I was selective and I wanted marriage and family more than anything and knew from experience how awful settling would be. The huge downside was my biological clock with fewer options than there are today like with egg freezing. 
I did have one particular bad few days on November 2004 when I learned in quick succession at a professional event that my ex boyfriend got married, my grad school classmate who was so unlikely to marry was now Smug Married - which was her tone when she told me and another friend revealed she’d given birth using an anonymous sperm donor (my age - she used the same donor to have 3 more kids on her own. As of about five years ago was around 50 and never married or partnered ) 

my friend also had her first baby and my other friend married a really hot guy she was crazy about (they had 2 kids cheated on each other and have been divorced a long time )

It did hit me hard. And also one of my best friends died as a young married person - cancer. My long term on again off again relationship was not going great either.  Being 38 felt awful at that time. 2 months later I finally ended my LTR. 6 months after that my future husband and I reconnected. I really knew I’d become the right person to find the right person. And in some ways it was good for me to experience how others made choices and to feel so envious. But I was my own person. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Coily said:

I think not being treated as an immediate threat and some how irreparably bad will go a long way. 

True. However a site such as this would be considered more of a support group for people's dating woes, whereas the others are negative in nature for their participants. More in the vein of convincing them the world (and women) are against them rather than offering advice, support or avenues of insight. 

[Kwothe28]

17 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Another thing that I noticed when I was in my 30s is that men seemed a lot less straightforward than they were when I was in my 20s. They played a lot more games. I thought this may have been due to different life experiences. But perhaps it was a byproduct of the 'manosphere' (of which I was blithely unaware). My boyfriend says it was because men start thinking with their brains in their 30s instead of with their you know whats.

 

I think its just byproduct of society in general. Women, for example, face different challenges from us men in 30s. Dating pool is a lot shorter and what is left on the market is not- settlers(men who would rather just live life then ever settle), people out of the big relationships or even marriages or people who didnt find anyone yet. Each of that group comes with their own "baggage" that made them difficult to find somebody or settle with somebody. Which makes whole dating a lot more difficult then in 20s where you had a full pool of single people often without any big baggage regarding dating.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I think its just byproduct of society in general. Women, for example, face different challenges from us men in 30s. Dating pool is a lot shorter and what is left on the market is not- settlers(men who would rather just live life then ever settle), people out of the big relationships or even marriages or people who didnt find anyone yet. Each of that group comes with their own "baggage" that made them difficult to find somebody or settle with somebody. Which makes whole dating a lot more difficult then in 20s where you had a full pool of single people often without any big baggage regarding dating.

In the major city where I did all my dating many men and women were single in their 30s without that sort of baggage. 45 and up was more like you’re describing. One acquaintance settled for never having children so she could marry her boyfriend who was divorced with kids.  She was never married.  She seems happy. 

[Jibralta]

  

4 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Dating pool is a lot shorter and what is left on the market is not- settlers

Yeah, true. I was single into my 30s for the same reason. I didn't have a pressing desire to have a family, so if a relationship wasn't working for me, I moved on. Most relationships in my 20s and 30s didn't last more than two months. 

4 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Each of that group comes with their own "baggage" that made them difficult to find somebody or settle with somebody. Which makes whole dating a lot more difficult then in 20s where you had a full pool of single people often without any big baggage regarding dating.

I agree that the mentality of 20-somethings is a lot different than the mentality of 30-somethings. But I have a different take on baggage. I think that some people are born with baggage. I could spot them even when I was a little kid in nursery school lol. They were the kids that were always whining, crying, complaining, blaming.... as adults they are the same way. It's just their natural disposition. 

When I got into my 30s, the experiences of my 20s had taught me what I wanted (and didn't want) in a partner. I've always been good at spotting and navigating 'red flags,' but in my 30s I lost patience for them. What I mean is, in my 20s, I probably would have gone out on a few dates with a red flagger just to see what was up. But in my 30s, one date (or even the first phone call) was the limit. No need to go down that road again.

I've known my boyfriend since we were in grade school. There were times in our 20s when our paths crossed and we could have gotten together but didn't. We finally did get together in our mid-30s. One of our first conversations was about why we didn't get together sooner. We both agreed that if we'd gotten together in our 20s, we would not have had a successful relationship. We simply weren't ready.

My boyfriend and I have been together for ten years. We have a stable, loving partnership. We are able to enjoy our relationship because we each matured through our 20s, and actually lost what silly baggage we did have. We each lost the desire to identify with anger, resentment, bitterness, negativity, etc. We don't have space for it.

So, I don't think everyone accumulates baggage as they get older. People who don't want baggage don't carry it around. 

[mylolita]

On 11/25/2022 at 3:19 PM, Jibralta said:

  

Yeah, true. I was single into my 30s for the same reason. I didn't have a pressing desire to have a family, so if a relationship wasn't working for me, I moved on. Most relationships in my 20s and 30s didn't last more than two months. 

I agree that the mentality of 20-somethings is a lot different than the mentality of 30-somethings. But I have a different take on baggage. I think that some people are born with baggage. I could spot them even when I was a little kid in nursery school lol. They were the kids that were always whining, crying, complaining, blaming.... as adults they are the same way. It's just their natural disposition. 

When I got into my 30s, the experiences of my 20s had taught me what I wanted (and didn't want) in a partner. I've always been good at spotting and navigating 'red flags,' but in my 30s I lost patience for them. What I mean is, in my 20s, I probably would have gone out on a few dates with a red flagger just to see what was up. But in my 30s, one date (or even the first phone call) was the limit. No need to go down that road again.

I've known my boyfriend since we were in grade school. There were times in our 20s when our paths crossed and we could have gotten together but didn't. We finally did get together in our mid-30s. One of our first conversations was about why we didn't get together sooner. We both agreed that if we'd gotten together in our 20s, we would not have had a successful relationship. We simply weren't ready.

My boyfriend and I have been together for ten years. We have a stable, loving partnership. We are able to enjoy our relationship because we each matured through our 20s, and actually lost what silly baggage we did have. We each lost the desire to identify with anger, resentment, bitterness, negativity, etc. We don't have space for it.

So, I don't think everyone accumulates baggage as they get older. People who don't want baggage don't carry it around. 

Brill point Jib!

 

I find you very interesting, and I admire you as well because from where I stand you worked on yourself and slogged through it emotionally. You didn’t just go with the flow and do something because you felt pressure or everyone else was doing it - that is highly admirable and I think underrated in how hard it is to go against the general grain. I love the way you both are committed and content with your own way of doing things. I think a billion years ago I asked your opinion on marriage and children and it was refreshing - it wasn’t a bitter response or a passive aggressive slate on anyone who followed the traditional route. You seemed to be following what was true for you? Very brave - I like it! 
 

Everyone’s lane is different, I don’t think there is this magic way or order that will make everyone happy.

 

A big traditionalist part of me would like to see the come back and promotion of the old school nuclear family. I kinda want that to be cool again. We are all such individualists doing individual things all structure altogether seems to have been thrown out which, I don’t know, is that such a great thing? I am all for the options and no stigma - for example, if you want to be an unmarried woman with no children, that is absolutely fine, modern western society isn’t going to condemn you like it’s 1945. I think that’s great. I would like to see the “eternally living in my teenage 20s me me me” culture take a dampener though. There is a lot to be said for taking on responsibility, and I think responsibility is something that bl***y terrifies my generation! 
 

I was just out last night with friends for drinks and the couple (woman 27 man 34) were just moving into a rented cottage together after a 3 year relationship. There is talk of kids and marriage and owning a home (all that typical traditional stuff) but it’s definitely not on the immediate radar. They want to travel all over first, get their business ideas out there. It’s all about them and their aspirations outside of that traditional orb, which is so millennial, it really is. It was always a massive luxury to travel around the world for half a year; a year. Now every late 20 to early 30 something I come across sees it as a rite of passage before they “finally settle”. I don’t know where they get the money for it to start with but the idea you would put roots down and start a family before all that seems crazy and totally flat out boring to them!

I once had a friend who, at the time, we were 26. He said, “If all there is to life is a mortgage, marriage and kids, shoot me now.”

 

I feel like all these people a similar age around me are looking for different things now. Maybe this is also transpiring to the dating world? People don’t want the serious. They want the Instagram travel account with their boyfriend or girlfriend and to jump from place to place and try a different city every year and jump jobs. Kids are seen as expensive balls and chains, as if life ends once you go down that path. Your youth kinda does end, actually, I always tell them they’re right about that. You have to stop being the kid.

 

Do guys my age rush to start families? Definitely not, and neither do the women, as much as they say they might want it, from where I am standing there doesn’t seem to be any real efforts towards it?

 

It’s really out of vogue 🤣

 

So, I am definitely uncool! And last night, it was strange but I think this is why so many of that group of old college friends and me have drifted away, because I go there and I start to feel like their MOTHER! And they are talking about stuff we talked about 8 years ago! And when they mention things I just can’t relate! And they probably feel the same way about me!

 

Anyway, I went off on a right tangent there! Basically, I think if I had to start dating now, even if I didn’t have children and a divorce under my belt or widow label - it would be - wow, intimidating! I feel like I’d reign it in again though in some strange way, because I’d be making a bee line again for that traditional guy. Would he want me now vs when I was fancy free single and 18? Well! This is the thing isn’t it! 
 

I have a strong feeling if anything happened to D I would stay definitely single until the kids were well up - even left home. No one else could ever replace him. He was my first everything, I know I can wait so I suppose, I would just wait again. It’s a morbid scenario it sounds unrealistic that I would do that but it’s how I feel.

 

I definitely wouldn’t hit the dating apps 🥲

 

x

[mylolita]

Also @Jibralta a question!

 

Have you ever felt any judgement, stigma - anything like that, for not marrying or having children?

 

Some women tell me they feel pressure, get asked a lot, etc!

 

x

[mylolita]

How does everyone feel about getting older in general?!

 

Do you all feel like, what you have gained has outweighed any loss? 
 

I personally have a very hard time every year I turn older. I struggle with it. I put so much of my value into my youth, so much was orientated around that, so many of my jobs and what not, that I struggle to let it go and ease myself into “THE NEXT CHAPTER!”

 

Anyone feel better in their 30s, 40s, 50s? Interesting to hear your side @Batya33 that you found dating became more positive with age! And parenting! 
 

x

[mylolita]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:19 PM, Batya33 said:

With all respect no I have no passion for office work.  I don't even particularly know what you are referring to.  You wrote that you haven't worked in many jobs and just based on what you write that is the impression I get -I don't think a person has to have experience in multiple fields to have an opinion but what you write to me reveals a lack of experience/knowledge just like I have no idea what it is like to do the type of work you did but I am not going to offer an opinion on it for that reason.  

Obviously in a life and death situation priorities shift.  My husband had to take life saving measures for me when I was 12 days post partum and convince me to go to the ER.  

The people I know vary widely in their work attitudes -some see full time parenting as just a job -because they didn't choose it, it just makes the most sense in the family - some see their secretarial work as meaningful because it is for a nonprofit and with bosses they've known and respected for decades so it's meaningful for them to know they're making a difference and interact with people they respect who respect them.

Some see their "office work" (if you mean going to an office to do administrative tasks like data entry or tasks that don't focus on brain work as far as creativity/taking initiative/strategizing) as just a job for sure. I did that sort of office work for a few summers during college.  It was just a job to me. I would not want to do that type of work.

My work involves my brain to a large extent, strategizing, planning, interacting with many people and doing it effectively, managing people (less so now), and  true grit to survive the tough deadlines, the setbacks.  Not physical grit.  And yes tons of typing and computer work and sitting at a desk.  So in that sense it is "office work".  There is also a minor percentage of repetitve tasks, administtrative tasks, mind numbing tasks.  Like with all jobs.  That's life.

But when I did multiple shifts to help fundraise for a nonprofit -volunteer - and it was boring work - manning the phones, etc - the work was "just a job" but the outcome was very meaningful to me. Obviously family first but if hypothetically my son had been sick the day of my 4 hour shift and my husband could watch him I would have gone because otherwise I'd be letting this nonprofit I cared about a lot down.  I wasn't paid.  But yes if I heaven forbid had a family emergency it would not have been a thought like "oh no I wish he worked more at fundraising -he would have had a more meaningful life like me" -there are always extremes. 

I know of people who have very high paying positions they do only for the money no matter what it is.  My former mentor is elderly  and still working -he loves his work -he was my mentor - but I know he's doing it for $ now because he still has family to support -I think otherwise he'd take it easier and/or do it more volunteer than for $ or an easier type job. 

One of my friends in his 50s makes a living as a theater-related designer -it's his art, and it's his work.  I have friends who are writers and make their living that way.  To them it is not office work -that would offend them if I called it that -but yes often they sit at a desk and type.  To them it is part of their identity, their passion. 

Four of my women friends published books in the last few years - one fiction (her first novel -she is in her 50s) and three non fiction.  They have children -three of them have young children, one has teens. This is their outside work. They also write articles, etc not just books.

Another friend has two teens including one child with special needs and she is a chef.  For the last several years she's run her own small restaurant.  Cooking and being a chef has been her passion for years.  If she didn't need the $ she'd still work in the field for free I bet.  

I am really really sorry your husband was so unwell. I am so grateful you knew CPR -I need t get recertified -with covid that stopped (one of my colleagues gave a course which I took and I took a long course when my son was an infant) - he is so lucky. 

At my father in law's funeral we who gave eulogies talked of his work because he made such a contribution to the world in his work.  He was not a workaholic at all. 

He also was into gardening and extremely handy around the house.  At my father's funeral I'm sure I talked of his 50 year career in the health care field.  He had a passion for it too. Money did motivate him -he was the main provider! - but it was such a part of his world, his identity, his dedication - which inspired me and my ambition and work ethic (but not in the health care field -blood, etc and me don't mix well!). His dedication paid it forward to me.  

Yes I agree with the cliche in general -in practice I think there is tons of variation. And like I wrote typically I have no issue with people who give opinions on experiences they have never had/not had yet - the opinions you gave just struck me the way I described.  I don't think you should work outside the home unless you want to - your job is major and you are contributing so much!

I didn’t know CPR at all Batya! 
 

The 999 operator on the phone talked me through it and the ambulance didn’t arrive for 35 minutes so it was rough. The consultant said I saved his life. I had to do it every second counted.

 

But I have job hopped all my young life and worked part time from being very young, whilst in college. I started making my own money at 14 which is what my and my husband share in common I think that, get out and do it the fast route. I don’t think any of us have ever played the low risk long game or planning game and that might turn out to work to our detriment.

 

I worked as a file girl at the opticians where my Dad worked from being 14 every weekend, carried that through and took in cocktail bar work at the same time as college when I was 18. Then I took on the stripping from 18 to near 20. In this time I did a bit of modelling, nude life sitting for sculpture artists, one who at the time was finishing a bronze piece of Kate moss who passed me as I was going in through the hallway!
 

I went through that phase driving and travelling around with my now husband. With him being an art dealer, and selling other objects related, we went all over, I met amazing interesting people, many celebrities who, two became loose friends! My husband is in contact with a member of the British royal family who is a customer, our children go and visit one of their homes now. It’s kinda of, a slightly surreal life I suppose. Around the age of 20 something I swapped to waitressing, then medical receptionist, then retail - clothes shops, window dressing - more waitressing, always part time at this point. Then I got some estate qualifications and worked at an estate and letting agency from 21-23. Then I went into a legal office where I was a legal Secretary and personal assistant to barristers. I was front of house for that legal company and kinda of, their hospitality gal Y’know. They come in and I was there in a pencil skirt pouring brandy and coffee. Typed up litigations, helped them attend court, that type of thing. I did that full time (only full time job ever) between 23-25 and then we bought our first house when I was 25. My job helped in a very small way to secure a bit more on our mortgage. I quit and did up the house for a full year from 26 and then was pregnant at 27 and then in 4 years had 3 babies and here I am 🤤

 

I have dabbled in a few areas - legal, medical, administrative, retail, hospitality, sex work! Modelling briefly. Nothing career driven, no degree. I did very well at school, top 3 in my class and top 4 out of my college year. I didn’t want university. I feel like I am resourceful and can turn my hand to lots of strange little things but Y’know, never just stood still and attended to one thing for a long period of time. My children and my marriage are my longest project up to date - HA! 🤣

 

Do I have limited experience?
 

In a corporate situation, absolutely yes. But I have been around so many different people, from top to bottom to everything inbetween, that absolutely nothing phases me socially, and I suppose strange situations, or the niche social situation, is something I absolutely live for!
 

But am I your educated well rounded girl? Well, I leave that up to other people to make their own decisions on that one!

 

x

[Wiseman2]

30 minutes ago, mylolita said:

How does everyone feel about getting older in general?

It's inevitable. Also time is the one finite asset anyone has. That's why it's difficult to understand why people don't cut their losses sooner when it comes to poor matches, bad relationships, etc. The last thing I would ever hope for myself is to put everything off until I'm one of those people who finally go on a cruise with a walker and oxygen tank.  I'm  the "if you don't make a decision,one will be made for you"  type. This is why when people just coast along in relationships they're often blindsided.