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The Modern Dilemma! Opinions on Modern Dating, Love, Life and Career!


mylolita
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21 minutes ago, Distressedmamma said:

Intelligence is an interesting one too. 

I generally listen a lot and smile. Have never had trouble attracting the men.. but I have been the sort to hold back my opinions and if the man has hold of the attention and you make them feel good that seems enough to them. However... when they realise I'm intelligent..  they are often 'surprised' . 

I'm usually offended that it's surprising to find an intelligent woman. It doesn't go far from there. The general consensus I have gained from men is that they don't like to have a woman that is smarter than them. 

That is generalising of course, but yes.. my experience quite often. 

Yes! If you play dumb, is this more palatable? Maybe depends on the man! If he is insecure and not too bright in the first place, well! He might prefer this. I don’t condone this by the way, I think you should always be yourself and say what you mean! 

 

I find women; especially young women, are having masculine tendencies and attributes promoted too them (please anyone input if you think this is wildly incorrect or have a different experience or opinion of this!)

 

For example, traditional feminine traits like nurturing, self sacrificing, fragility, being overly emotional, being concerned with the family - basically taking on the role of the nurturer - is out of fashion now. Women are told to adopt generally more masculine traits, like competitiveness, dominance, less childcare, success in a career - general go getting and calling the shots. They are told career first, marriage and babies later or you are oppressed by the patriarchy and will be left vulnerable when he leaves you.

 

The modern opinion from both sides seems to be tarnished. Men think all women seem to be just gold diggers, ready to divorce quickly after the kids come, and women seem to think all men are cheating scoundrels who will leave you for the younger model after the kids come.

 

I am of course generalising! But, the general feel from both sexes regarding each other is - extreme suspicion and caution. Everyone needs this backup plan, because they feel it is only a matter of time until it fails? 
 

I know my Grandmothers never thought like this, and had fantastic, romantic, very long marriages.

 

I was very close to my Mums mum especially and she once said, when kids get married these days, they want all the good parts and none of the bad, and leave at the drop of a hat. She said there were plenty of times she was unhappy, but they worked at it together. I guess the lesson I gathered from her which seemed precious and priceless to me was - hardships will come. If you chose the right person, and the love is there, deep and strong, with effort and working together, you can always pull through.

 

Maybe a lot of people, men and women, think this is dream land talking but, I guess it worked for them and up to now it has worked for me. I’m only 15 years in so time will tell. She was married happily for 72 years so she had more backup than me! 
 

x
 

 

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2 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

I am 38. Looking to settle down and marry. My list is not generaly long. I find most girls at least cute so looks is not a big issue. Big on education so I do go for college educated. I (and probably most guys from what I saw) dont care about earnings. Earnings are just something not that important when a guy searches for a girl, its mostly the other way around. Decent job is suffice. And in time I had to write off single moms. Lots of complications and added baggage. Which does shorten my dating pool in 30s. Divorce rate is high here, so lots of women on dating market are single with kids.

I think its OK. Lots of people due to economic situation opt for both of partners to work. But its OK if one side can support both so the other can be dedicated to raising kids.

However, I would wonder if his resistance is due to traditional upbringing. Or just fear that you would leave after gaining economic indepenence and having an opportunity to meet other people through work. Is your husband a jealous type?

This is a totally legit point! 
 

It would seem that way from the outside, wouldn’t it! I guess I can’t really use myself as a general example because Y’know, when we were living together, we had been together for a few years and engaged at this point, I started stripping for a living and he was cool with it - and we went to swingers clubs for a good two to three years together as a cheeky little team. So we are both not the jealous types but deeply committed, in a very maybe, strange way to other people! 
 

I got married at 24. It’s been 15 years now together and 9 years married. We love each other deeply and no passion has died! People often joke we are like teenagers! It’s true. I guess he takes big pride in the fact he provides for me and the kids. That’s his thing, he sees it as an achievement he is able to very comfortably give us a fantastic lifestyle which is, very luxurious. I’m probably not your typical example actually of a married women to be honest and shouldn’t use my personal experience to bounce off any of this.

 

I find my situation very unique and lucky. I do genuinely have a real option of, work or not. I know a lot of women have to work, and for that, I always thank my husband, that I have had a true choice. For that, he is probably and ironically very feminist - LOL! Although he would die to hear it! We both agreed we didn’t want to use daycare or pre school for our kids and no nannies. I’m just trying to soak it all up before they go basically, which feels very soon and very fast! 
 

I am not by the way telling anyone this is the perfect way or that by one who works whilst having kids or uses daycare is a bad parent - the opposite. This was just our mutual feelings towards the whole thing and we agreed from the off about it.

 

You seem quite laid back either way Kwothe28! 
 

Do you date seriously only giving time to women you think might be wife potential? 
 

x

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27 minutes ago, mylolita said:

This is interesting as well - my husband has an IQ of 138, I think that pegs him as quite technically smart, where as my IQ is only 100.

 

He is an entrepreneur and a sales man through and through, and very confident. I’m very confident and extroverted and enjoy reading and writing and had a few exam answers published back in college as examples or whatever. I did very well in school and even had an invitation to tour Oxford - HA! As if they ever would have let me in! But on the flip side, my husband took himself straight out of school at 15 and already had two of his own businesses running by then, and felt like school “babied” him and held him back.  
 

I understand my husband is way more intelligent than me - I don’t mind that at all! I’m not a total dummy, I’ll talk about any topic under the sun and I have my opinions and inputs about it but I’m no maths genius here! 
 

We are both totally impractical! 
 

People often say, because he is blunt and direct, that he isn’t socially intelligent - but I think he is. I think to be a salesman you have to be socially intelligent and read people and almost manipulate people to some extent. Apart from having hardly any common sense he’s annoying and good at a lot of things! 
 

I think he lets me win the arguments in our household - HA! 
 

x

Both my husband and I have tested above average intelligence. At 97% he had the third highest mark on course that the Aerospace School had seen. He is always top third of his courses in the military. He is a published author. ( military article)In my nursing assistant course in the military I got 99.98% and was the course candidate. I got 1 question wrong on the whole course. We both  excelled academically. However , he is outstanding at math whereas I am not.  I am more aware of the needs of people and he is more diplomatic and congenial. I have an enormously kind heart but I can be very blunt and can have a belligerent streak and sometimes only want to be congenial when it gets me somewhere .  

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2 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Hahahah I still work 10 hours a day now, but I am home at least while doing it . 
 

Being away when with the military made me cry. There was many a day while sitting in the cold and dark that I cried and missed my boy. But it was the same for the other jobs I did. I missed him every second and you know what that never goes away even when they are adults. 😉My mom still misses me every second and I am almost a senior citizen. Hahahaha. But we forge ahead despite that, we have to. But missing our children is a part of life. 
 

Would I have done it differently? You know, probably not. Each thing taught me a lot about who I am and what I would do and not do. What I am willing to sacrifice of myself as a person and wife and mother. So, no, my life stands as is. 

This is also an interesting perspective! It made you stronger! 
 

I think Seraphim, my ideal “baby and child raising” environment would be completely rural - on a farm maybe, few other kids from the cottages about, big families with plenty of kids so they have company, cousins living with us, my parents living with us, and we just have a simple, outdoor lifestyle of the earth! My son is right to fish and hunt instead of… about mental health awareness when he is 4! And my daughters can go do that too! Or help me thatch the roof or something! Stack and light the fires! No screens, none of that! The kids stay with you for along time, go off and maybe marry younger; but not go far, and you see your grandchildren playing in the same fields your children did!

 

That would be my vision of life! It does not melt with modern life, and it definitely does not melt with modern schooling! 
 

I can dream! I really love that channel you pot on YouTube because her working in that little book shop and doing crafts - a slow cottage extremely rural life - seems like perfection to me! 
 

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4 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Both my husband and I have tested above average intelligence. At 97% he had the third highest mark on course that the Aerospace School had seen. He is always top third of his courses in the military. He is a published author. ( military article)In my nursing assistant course in the military I got 99.98% and was the course candidate. I got 1 question wrong on the whole course. We both  excelled academically. However , he is outstanding at math whereas I am not.  I am more aware of the needs of people and he is more diplomatic and congenial. I have an enormously kind heart but I can be very blunt and can have a belligerent streak and sometimes only want to be congenial when it gets me somewhere .  

You have just confirmed the generic scientific study outcomes of female and male brain tendencies! 
 

My husband is the same - quite great at quick mental maths, I can’t do that to save my life! Not many women are great at maths. We are better with language! You may be similar? I think it’s amazing what you and your husband achieved academically! 

 

Do you think having autism has contributed to the way you think about things and are socially in life? Do you approach relationships differently Seraphim? 
 

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1 minute ago, mylolita said:

You have just confirmed the generic scientific study outcomes of female and male brain tendencies! 
 

My husband is the same - quite great at quick mental maths, I can’t do that to save my life! Not many women are great at maths. We are better with language! You may be similar? I think it’s amazing what you and your husband achieved academically! 

 

Do you think having autism has contributed to the way you think about things and are socially in life? Do you approach relationships differently Seraphim? 
 

x

I think I am bad at math because I moved so often as a child. I went to about 10 grade schools and 4 high schools and all different provinces and school systems. So often I was repeating skills I had learned or doing skills I hadn’t learned yet but didn’t have the background for. Back when I went to school teachers were allowed to criticize and I was often called stupid by math teachers which didn’t help. It left me rather defeated or I think I would have done well. 
 

It is hard to tell about relationships as both my husband and I are neurodivergent. We both can have black and white thinking which can put us at loggerheads and we are both very entrenched that we are right. My husband definitely wants to come out on top of the argument but more often than not I do as I wish anyway . 😂 We recently had an argument about me going to the States soon. He feels we should get the brakes done and everything else done on my car before I go. But my friends can only go that weekend. And he’s of the idea who gives a crap go a different weekend even if it’s after Christmas who cares. And I’m like yeah but they want to go that weekend because they want to do Christmas shopping not after Christmas and he’s basically like well who cares what they want. And see I have a deep completely different rating  system for risk. I am way more of a risk taker than he is. I’m willing to take the risk that I might have an issue with my vehicle and I’m like whatever. I just said you would just have to come and get us in the US that’s all. And he is rolling his eyes. And he figures if he keeps nattering about it I’m going to give in but that just leaves me more entrenched. 😂 you would think after more than 30 years he would figure this out. 

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15 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

I think I am bad at math because I moved so often as a child. I went to about 10 grade schools and 4 high schools and all different provinces and school systems. So often I was repeating skills I had learned or doing skills I hadn’t learned yet but didn’t have the background for. Back when I went to school teachers were allowed to criticize and I was often called stupid by math teachers which didn’t help. It left me rather defeated or I think I would have done well. 
 

It is hard to tell about relationships as both my husband and I are neurodivergent. We both can have black and white thinking which can put us at loggerheads and we are both very entrenched that we are right. My husband definitely wants to come out on top of the argument but more often than not I do as I wish anyway . 😂 We recently had an argument about me going to the States soon. He feels we should get the brakes done and everything else done on my car before I go. But my friends can only go that weekend. And he’s of the idea who gives a crap go a different weekend even if it’s after Christmas who cares. And I’m like yeah but they want to go that weekend because they want to do Christmas shopping not after Christmas and he’s basically like well who cares what they want. And see I have a deep completely different rating  system for risk. I am way more of a risk taker than he is. I’m willing to take the risk that I might have an issue with my vehicle and I’m like whatever. I just said you would just have to come and get us in the US that’s all. And he is rolling his eyes. And he figures if he keeps nattering about it I’m going to give in but that just leaves me more entrenched. 😂 you would think after more than 30 years he would figure this out. 

I would want to ask Seraphim, as much as I don’t doubt you are right with being upheaved so often, why your English or other skills not did not suffer with the same upheaval but your maths did?

 

And this is an interesting argument hahahaha! I can see where your husband is coming from - because he will be the one bailing you out if your car conks, is that right? So he’s more concerned! 
 

I always find it fascinating how people who have autism approach relationships - is your husband the same way Seraphim? Is he also autistic? 
 

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Norway and the Scandinavian countries are interesting to me because they pall fully for all childcare, and incentivise women to go into typically masculine dominated fields like engineering, maths, and physics and chemistry. They found even in their most liberal and accepting society, floods of women didn’t flock to go study maths, or become engineers. Is it just something about the general female brain that isn’t typically suited to these pursuits? I think so!

 

Women tend to dominate marketing, nursing, law; professional child care, teaching in the primary years, medicine is equal it seems between men and women apart from when it comes to being a surgeon; this is male dominated - if it is science women tend to go into biology, men into physics and chemistry. The army is male dominated. Psychology is female dominated, and social care, social workers for example. Sales seems to still be male dominated (cold calling, Wallstreet, door to door knocking, car sales). 
 

I’m not sure about advertising - is that split quite evenly or is it still male dominated? 
 

I find it fascinating. I think generally, women are different to men! Even the average domestic argument, you have her side, and his side, and it’s eternally interesting to me how they see the same thing in different ways! 
 

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15 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I would want to ask Seraphim, as much as I don’t doubt you are right with being upheaved so often, why your English or other skills not did not suffer with the same upheaval but your maths did?

 

And this is an interesting argument hahahaha! I can see where your husband is coming from - because he will be the one bailing you out if your car conks, is that right? So he’s more concerned! 
 

I always find it fascinating how people who have autism approach relationships - is your husband the same way Seraphim? Is he also autistic? 
 

x

Math skills are more learned in a sequence and language skills well we learn those from the second we are born. I had no issues with languages. 
 

Yes, he would have to come and bail and my girlfriends out which he would do but would be none too happy. 
 

He is ADHD. You should try watching a show with him .😂 He is up and down like a Jack in the box at least 17 times in a half hour show because he can’t be still. When was younger he literally ran everywhere , he would leave me literally 9 blocks behind and not even notice. Three years ago when I broke my ankle and my hand it’s because I was trying to keep up with him. He was four blocks ahead of me. He lives in his head a lot and doesn’t notice what is going on. 

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Just now, Seraphim said:

Math skills are more learned in a sequence and language skills well we learn those from the second we are born. I had no issues with languages. 
 

Yes, he would have to come and bail and my girlfriends out which he would do but would be none too happy. 
 

He is ADHD. You should try watching a show with him .😂 He is up and down like a Jack in the box at least 17 times in a half hour show because he can’t be still. When was younger he literally ran everywhere , he would leave me literally 9 blocks behind and not even notice. Three years ago when I broke my ankle and my hand it’s because I was trying to keep up with him. He was four blocks ahead of me. He lives in his head a lot and doesn’t notice what is going on. 

Keeps you fit I suppose Seraphim!!! 🤣

 

I get told off because I CONSTANTLY interject and comment during a tv show! I even do it ALONE! 🥴🫡🥲

 

Thats interesting - so, those people who are gifted and talented at maths? Of course mostly all men! They are… not really initially learning this stuff although they do of course, delve deeper and deeper, obsessively! A guy from my year at s c ooo went to Oxford to study maths -  his parents were both accountants and my Mum always said they started with times tables at him from a very young age. I do think he was gifted as well. He had a flare for it. I think maths seemed to be in his genetics! His whole family were… geeks about math! 
 

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8 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Keeps you fit I suppose Seraphim!!! 🤣

 

I get told off because I CONSTANTLY interject and comment during a tv show! I even do it ALONE! 🥴🫡🥲

 

Thats interesting - so, those people who are gifted and talented at maths? Of course mostly all men! They are… not really initially learning this stuff although they do of course, delve deeper and deeper, obsessively! A guy from my year at s c ooo went to Oxford to study maths -  his parents were both accountants and my Mum always said they started with times tables at him from a very young age. I do think he was gifted as well. He had a flare for it. I think maths seemed to be in his genetics! His whole family were… geeks about math! 
 

x

There is definitely a genetic component to systems . 

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6 hours ago, mylolita said:

This is interesting Bolt!

 

How did you find it being a young wife? At what age did you have your children? And what kind of man was your husband - what drew you too him if I can ask?

 

I hear this a lot from many different women - that full time parenting, so to speak, is not enough for them, and that they need something more! 
 

Thanks for contributing! 
 

x

I didn't want to get married so young. I was barely past legal drinking age and still felt like a kid. But my husband (boyfriend at the time) was adamant about getting married. In fact, he gave me an ultimatum...marry me or lose me. Obviously I married him.

I was attracted to him because he and I could talk for hours and never get bored or have awkward silences. He really listened. And he said he liked me because I laughed at his corny jokes. Other people gave him strange looks but I laughed. He was a quiet person who tended to keep to himself and I was an extrovert with a huge group of friends. He said that also got him to notice me. Physically he was my exact type. Very tall, blond, fair skinned and with the bluest of blue eyes. Not a bright blue but like the sky on a warm spring day with a couple of fluffy white clouds in it. But he isn't a "pretty boy" or physically perfect. I like a man who has some kind of quirky flaw in his face. Perfection doesn't appeal to me. And he's a decent man. Hard working, reliable and dependable. Unfortunately, our differences were too great for us to make it work. I still wanted to be social and have us have fun with friends while he wanted to circle the wagons and keep everyone else out. He also didn't want me to work because he didn't want me around other people making friends. He really wanted it to just be us and our son. And I wanted to work and have friends. 

I had my son about two years after we married (my other child came along after the divorce and was from a different relationship). So I was a fairly young mother. 

My mother taught me to always at least be able to be self sufficient financially in case of divorce or a tragic death. And she was right. I'm taking care of myself (quite well, I might add!) and the kids learned how important it is to be able to support oneself. Because one never knows.

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1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

I didn't want to get married so young. I was barely past legal drinking age and still felt like a kid. But my husband (boyfriend at the time) was adamant about getting married. In fact, he gave me an ultimatum...marry me or lose me. Obviously I married him.

I was attracted to him because he and I could talk for hours and never get bored or have awkward silences. He really listened. And he said he liked me because I laughed at his corny jokes. Other people gave him strange looks but I laughed. He was a quiet person who tended to keep to himself and I was an extrovert with a huge group of friends. He said that also got him to notice me. Physically he was my exact type. Very tall, blond, fair skinned and with the bluest of blue eyes. Not a bright blue but like the sky on a warm spring day with a couple of fluffy white clouds in it. But he isn't a "pretty boy" or physically perfect. I like a man who has some kind of quirky flaw in his face. Perfection doesn't appeal to me. And he's a decent man. Hard working, reliable and dependable. Unfortunately, our differences were too great for us to make it work. I still wanted to be social and have us have fun with friends while he wanted to circle the wagons and keep everyone else out. He also didn't want me to work because he didn't want me around other people making friends. He really wanted it to just be us and our son. And I wanted to work and have friends. 

I had my son about two years after we married (my other child came along after the divorce and was from a different relationship). So I was a fairly young mother. 

My mother taught me to always at least be able to be self sufficient financially in case of divorce or a tragic death. And she was right. I'm taking care of myself (quite well, I might add!) and the kids learned how important it is to be able to support oneself. Because one never knows.

I see I see!

 

I was 24 when I got married and definitely didn’t feel like a kid - I think I would have married at 18 if I could have! Right guy, of course! I felt very grown up and ready and I regret actually not starting my family earlier (I was 27 when I fell pregnant with my son and stopped having the babies when I was just turning 30). But I know if I had done that I never would have had the children I had.

 

I did go through a phase when I was 23 and engaged to my husband where I got real estate qualifications - and worked in an estate agents for about 3 years. I kind of got entrapped there, even though I was part time. I fell pregnant as well, by accident, still to my husband but it was my choice, I thought I was supposed to be doing the “job thing” and had an abortion. I remember being sat in the office looking down at this Gucci watch I always used to wear thinking I was going to do a disservice to myself if I started having my babies too young, that I wanted to buy myself all these fancy things. I absolutely instantly regretted it Bolt, and as soon as we bought our first house when I was 25, we completed this big renovation as much as we could and then got to starting our family.

 

I will always regret that decision I made at 23 in a way and I think this is why I sometimes have a personal axe to grind with what modern society tells women - career and education first. I was starting to think that was the correct way for myself, and because I had just finished qualifications I had studied for, this baby that unexpectedly came along - there was no room in my plan. From the age of 26 onwards I haven’t worked. 
 

It is different for me now I have to add, because we are very financially stable, and my husband has a high paying business that I can take the risk of kind of… knowing that if anything happened, I would be taken care of. I wouldn’t be able to maintain the lifestyle I have forever alone though, of course. I would get the house and the savings and other assets and insurance if he departed or we divorced but, I couldn’t keep our house running on a low salary. The bills alone are too high. Unless I pulled something outta my a**! Which I always weirdly think I could! Delusional as that is! 
 

No, I am one of those small minority “kept women”! There seems to be pros and cons to everything and, it’s not all perfection! My husband works such long hours - I mean, if I were to tot up my hours I spend weekly with the kids, it must be… HA! 91 hours I just worked out on average! Okay so who is working that at their jobs?! Maybe I do deserve the financial backing because being a full time mother is tough! 🥲🤣🥴🥴🥴🥴

 

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12 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I see I see!

 

I was 24 when I got married and definitely didn’t feel like a kid - I think I would have married at 18 if I could have! Right guy, of course! I felt very grown up and ready and I regret actually not starting my family earlier (I was 27 when I fell pregnant with my son and stopped having the babies when I was just turning 30). But I know if I had done that I never would have had the children I had.

 

I did go through a phase when I was 23 and engaged to my husband where I got real estate qualifications - and worked in an estate agents for about 3 years. I kind of got entrapped there, even though I was part time. I fell pregnant as well, by accident, still to my husband but it was my choice, I thought I was supposed to be doing the “job thing” and had an abortion. I remember being sat in the office looking down at this Gucci watch I always used to wear thinking I was going to do a disservice to myself if I started having my babies too young, that I wanted to buy myself all these fancy things. I absolutely instantly regretted it Bolt, and as soon as we bought our first house when I was 25, we completed this big renovation as much as we could and then got to starting our family.

 

I will always regret that decision I made at 23 in a way and I think this is why I sometimes have a personal axe to grind with what modern society tells women - career and education first. I was starting to think that was the correct way for myself, and because I had just finished qualifications I had studied for, this baby that unexpectedly came along - there was no room in my plan. From the age of 26 onwards I haven’t worked. 
 

It is different for me now I have to add, because we are very financially stable, and my husband has a high paying business that I can take the risk of kind of… knowing that if anything happened, I would be taken care of. I wouldn’t be able to maintain the lifestyle I have forever alone though, of course. I would get the house and the savings and other assets and insurance if he departed or we divorced but, I couldn’t keep our house running on a low salary. The bills alone are too high. Unless I pulled something outta my a**! Which I always weirdly think I could! Delusional as that is! 
 

No, I am one of those small minority “kept women”! There seems to be pros and cons to everything and, it’s not all perfection! My husband works such long hours - I mean, if I were to tot up my hours I spend weekly with the kids, it must be… HA! 91 hours I just worked out on average! Okay so who is working that at their jobs?! Maybe I do deserve the financial backing because being a full time mother is tough! 🥲🤣🥴🥴🥴🥴

 

x

I have to add Bolt that you did get married young and I can see your reasoning and why you got hitched to your husband! 
 

Are you still friends or civil? 
 

How did you find co parenting and a blended family situation?

 

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1 hour ago, mylolita said:

I find my situation very unique and lucky. I do genuinely have a real option of, work or not. I know a lot of women have to work, and for that, I always thank my husband, that I have had a true choice. For that, he is probably and ironically very feminist - LOL! Although he would die to hear it! We both agreed we didn’t want to use daycare or pre school for our kids and no nannies. I’m just trying to soak it all up before they go basically, which feels very soon and very fast! 

Out here lots of people just use their parents. Their parents are very willing to jump in if the kid is not in kindergarden or temporary sick so they cant go to one and need to be guarded. When both parents work its a necessity sometimes. So yes, you are very lucky that you dont have to and that you alone can be around them while they are younger. 

1 hour ago, mylolita said:

Do you date seriously only giving time to women you think might be wife potential? 

I would say yes. I did turn off some opportunities here and there as I didnt see them as suitable. Sadly, some "wife opportunities" slipped away. But hey, in retrospect its not really that harm. I do have a tendency toward a "good girl" archetype. Sadly, lots of them dont turn up that good after a while. So I get dissapointed in my choices a lot sometimes. Think Batya said that you need a thick skin for dating. And she is right, its a lot sometimes. But I do manage to push further. 

You are lucky you found husband in 18 and that you made a good and happy marriage. Its a jungle out there now especially at older age. 

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24 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I have to add Bolt that you did get married young and I can see your reasoning and why you got hitched to your husband! 
 

Are you still friends or civil? 
 

How did you find co parenting and a blended family situation?

 

x

We've been divorced for over 20 years, so no, we aren't friends. Not enemies but we have no need to communicate or hang out. Especially since our son is in his 30s and married. He eloped so we didn't even have to be at his wedding together. My ex is a great father. He always made sure our son had everything he needed. He also paid for extracurricular activities such as school trips and camp. He paid for the portion of his college tuition that his scholarships didn't cover without batting an eyelid. I didn't have to contribute to tuition, just gave my son spending money. A really good, loving father.

Neither my husband nor I have remarried. Honestly I'm not interested at this point in dating and remarriage is not even on my radar. And apparently neither is my ex husband. In fact he's currently living with his mother (who is a lovely, wonderful person).

I could have been a stay at home wife and mother but I chose not to. I wanted to be able to support myself financially if needed and also enjoyed being around other adults. And my son benefitted greatly from attending preschool. He loved it so much that when I went to pick him up he'd ask "Mommy, I'm having fun. Can you go run an errand and come back later?" Hilarious.

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I'll just say it, the current dating atmosphere is utter garbage. Especially for men, I admit I'm biased because I am.

So here are my observations of the utter dumpster fire that current dating is, post university age.

  • Online dating, and online culture in general has made it very easy for the grass is greener syndrome to effect the dating pool. if you get someone who is a smooth talker, all the right looks, and pretends to be perfect; they can out compete someone you meet in real life. A fantasy world is very easy to slip into no.
  • Men are expected to be both extremely old fashioned and hyper modern at the same time, where we have to play a game of "who do I have to be now." On one hand women expect high amounts of chivalry and then at the next a "you go girl cheerleader" switching on a dime.
  • Being successful in business, which means sacrifice of time, isn't valued as much as it used to be. It comes across as you have to be both lapdog and live the jet-setting playboy lifestyle.
  • There is always in the back of the mind a threat of false acquisitions hanging over a lot of dates; or even with exes if things ended poorly. It's terrifying to not know if something that was encouraged a year ago will suddenly be vindictively used for revenge
  • Also a lot of social portrayal of men being oafish and idiotic, especially as fathers; comes across in the dating realm for me as well. I have encountered a few times "oh you're a man you can't possibly understand" on first dates. I leave after that.

All in all I feel that I have little chance in finding a wife as the days pass. I keep trying, and I keep finding more and more turn offs. Some are my personal taste, but more and more seem to be the skills I have taught myself to be a good man are useless. I feel as if I had just been a lout and selfish jerk I would have had more success in dating. I do not like to entertain that at all.

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8 minutes ago, Coily said:

I'll just say it, the current dating atmosphere is utter garbage. Especially for men, I admit I'm biased because I am.

So here are my observations of the utter dumpster fire that current dating is, post university age.

  • Online dating, and online culture in general has made it very easy for the grass is greener syndrome to effect the dating pool. if you get someone who is a smooth talker, all the right looks, and pretends to be perfect; they can out compete someone you meet in real life. A fantasy world is very easy to slip into no.
  • Men are expected to be both extremely old fashioned and hyper modern at the same time, where we have to play a game of "who do I have to be now." On one hand women expect high amounts of chivalry and then at the next a "you go girl cheerleader" switching on a dime.
  • Being successful in business, which means sacrifice of time, isn't valued as much as it used to be. It comes across as you have to be both lapdog and live the jet-setting playboy lifestyle.
  • There is always in the back of the mind a threat of false acquisitions hanging over a lot of dates; or even with exes if things ended poorly. It's terrifying to not know if something that was encouraged a year ago will suddenly be vindictively used for revenge
  • Also a lot of social portrayal of men being oafish and idiotic, especially as fathers; comes across in the dating realm for me as well. I have encountered a few times "oh you're a man you can't possibly understand" on first dates. I leave after that.

All in all I feel that I have little chance in finding a wife as the days pass. I keep trying, and I keep finding more and more turn offs. Some are my personal taste, but more and more seem to be the skills I have taught myself to be a good man are useless. I feel as if I had just been a lout and selfish jerk I would have had more success in dating. I do not like to entertain that at all.

Coily!

 

HERE HERE! 
 

Oh my goodness - nail on the head from my perspective too! 
 

Women want the luxury lifestyle sometimes, but aren’t willing to put up with the long hours working to provide this often takes. I notice in modern adverts, men are portrayed as stupid buffoons! All a laugh at our expense! 
 

I read once that men want two things from a relationship - admiration, and respect. Modern relationships lack this. I deeply admire my husband, I find him an inspiration! How many couples, in the over killed fight for equality, have sailed past this little need some men have? To feel needed, respected? Basically, to feel like the man. 
 

I often feel like my friends emasculate their husbands - talk bad about them whilst they stand there, gossip about them, talk about their private lives and his inadequacies to their girlfriends, whilst I think, when did you get perfect?! You have plenty of faults! I wonder how you would feel if he talked about the shape of your boobs or something else to his mates behind your back! 
 

As someone who adores men, has mostly men as friends, and has a son - I just, my heart is going out to men at the moment, it really is. 
 

Women - I feel like, men just want a break and some admiration and some tender care! Cook him his favourite dish, put some lingerie on in his favourite colour, indulge him in some way. I have found in my marriage anyway, this is so successful because it takes so little and he is on his knees after me willing to do anything for such small acts of kindness! 
 

My mother in law has always complained my father in law does nothing for her. They have slept in separate beds for 10 years. She nags him, humiliates him - takes out her moods on him and tells him how it’s gonna be.

 

He comes round here, I give him a genuine compliment; keep the cups of tea rolling, cook him his favourite roast and he’s like putty in my hands! He’ll come round and randomly cut the grass and whistle about it, something he won’t do for his own wife. Maybe I am wrongly simplifying men here? Please tell me if I am. But, this selfless give and take seems to work really well.

 

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7 hours ago, mylolita said:

Yes! If you play dumb, is this more palatable? Maybe depends on the man! If he is insecure and not too bright in the first place, well! He might prefer this. I don’t condone this by the way, I think you should always be yourself and say what you mean! 

 

I find women; especially young women, are having masculine tendencies and attributes promoted too them (please anyone input if you think this is wildly incorrect or have a different experience or opinion of this!)

 

For example, traditional feminine traits like nurturing, self sacrificing, fragility, being overly emotional, being concerned with the family - basically taking on the role of the nurturer - is out of fashion now. Women are told to adopt generally more masculine traits, like competitiveness, dominance, less childcare, success in a career - general go getting and calling the shots. They are told career first, marriage and babies later or you are oppressed by the patriarchy and will be left vulnerable when he leaves you.

 

The modern opinion from both sides seems to be tarnished. Men think all women seem to be just gold diggers, ready to divorce quickly after the kids come, and women seem to think all men are cheating scoundrels who will leave you for the younger model after the kids come.

 

I am of course generalising! But, the general feel from both sexes regarding each other is - extreme suspicion and caution. Everyone needs this backup plan, because they feel it is only a matter of time until it fails? 
 

I know my Grandmothers never thought like this, and had fantastic, romantic, very long marriages.

 

I was very close to my Mums mum especially and she once said, when kids get married these days, they want all the good parts and none of the bad, and leave at the drop of a hat. She said there were plenty of times she was unhappy, but they worked at it together. I guess the lesson I gathered from her which seemed precious and priceless to me was - hardships will come. If you chose the right person, and the love is there, deep and strong, with effort and working together, you can always pull through.

 

Maybe a lot of people, men and women, think this is dream land talking but, I guess it worked for them and up to now it has worked for me. I’m only 15 years in so time will tell. She was married happily for 72 years so she had more backup than me! 
 

x
 

 

Absolutely not... I would never ever diminish myself to make someone else feel better. As a person I like to observe and get a good understanding of the situation around me, so I tend to quietly take in everything and I will hold back my opinions if there is someone loudly making a fool of themselves on a topic they clearly are uneducated about. I dont feel I need to correct people, others already see them for what they are. 

And in the dating game... if the man has just talked about himself and not asked enough of me to realise I'm intelligent straight up, then it leads to that point later where apparently they didn't realise there is some complex thought going on in there. 🙄 I will ask a lot of questions about them and people do love talking about themselves. When I met my current partner he asked me a whole lot about myself which was refreshing. Unfortunately things changed over time.

Typically I will look for someone of equal intelligence because I absolutely love to have an in depth conversation or friendly debate.  

In the modern dating world I found men that were either all about the sex and didn't really know how to adult properly... or they actually were intelligent but treated me as though I was 'wrong' and they were 'right'.  Mightier than though kind of attitude. 

And then I met some who downright became A Holes and would belittle me. 

I also met some who were nice but not intelligent enough to meet me on my level. I need an intellect, I get bored if I can't sit down and express my thoughts about current world issues & economics. I need someone that challenges me but also respects me. 

And that's actually the baseline of what I want in a relationship... someone who challenges me, respects me.... (and loves a good romp often because I'm super affectionate!) I think I'm a good catch really, who would think it's so hard!

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5 hours ago, Coily said:

I'll just say it, the current dating atmosphere is utter garbage. Especially for men, I admit I'm biased because I am.

So here are my observations of the utter dumpster fire that current dating is, post university age.

  • Online dating, and online culture in general has made it very easy for the grass is greener syndrome to effect the dating pool. if you get someone who is a smooth talker, all the right looks, and pretends to be perfect; they can out compete someone you meet in real life. A fantasy world is very easy to slip into no.
  • Men are expected to be both extremely old fashioned and hyper modern at the same time, where we have to play a game of "who do I have to be now." On one hand women expect high amounts of chivalry and then at the next a "you go girl cheerleader" switching on a dime.
  • Being successful in business, which means sacrifice of time, isn't valued as much as it used to be. It comes across as you have to be both lapdog and live the jet-setting playboy lifestyle.
  • There is always in the back of the mind a threat of false acquisitions hanging over a lot of dates; or even with exes if things ended poorly. It's terrifying to not know if something that was encouraged a year ago will suddenly be vindictively used for revenge
  • Also a lot of social portrayal of men being oafish and idiotic, especially as fathers; comes across in the dating realm for me as well. I have encountered a few times "oh you're a man you can't possibly understand" on first dates. I leave after that.

All in all I feel that I have little chance in finding a wife as the days pass. I keep trying, and I keep finding more and more turn offs. Some are my personal taste, but more and more seem to be the skills I have taught myself to be a good man are useless. I feel as if I had just been a lout and selfish jerk I would have had more success in dating. I do not like to entertain that at all.

I agree with a lot of your posts. Also this one.  There seems to be a culture of expectation toward men from most women that I know. And from my perspective I feel that same expectation coming from men toward women. But. It's not all men. The 'nice guys' tend to get walked all over. They bend over backwards to accommodate a woman who then does not return the same level of kindness or effort. 

I think being able to challenge each other is important. A nice guy who's putting in all the effort in the world surely must be suppressing a disappointment in there somewhere.  

There's got to be more balance. We don't tend to talk much about having the ability to challenge each other. Calling out the other in a respectful way to help each other grow and make your bond closer doesn't seem to be a thing. 

In the situation I'm in... I'm with someone who is overly critical in all situations. It's a whole other story... its also unhealthy. Something I've learned from it is that I'm not perfect, and I did have plenty to learn. I've heard things about myself that I'd never considered before. I've had to reflect and work out what are my flaws (and what is him being an a hole. ) 

Anyway. I hear you. We need to have healthy expectation from the opposite sex. Not flighty fantasy of some knight in shining armour that needs nothing in return. 

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5 hours ago, Coily said:

I'll just say it, the current dating atmosphere is utter garbage. Especially for men, I admit I'm biased because I am.

So here are my observations of the utter dumpster fire that current dating is, post university age.

  • Online dating, and online culture in general has made it very easy for the grass is greener syndrome to effect the dating pool. if you get someone who is a smooth talker, all the right looks, and pretends to be perfect; they can out compete someone you meet in real life. A fantasy world is very easy to slip into no.
  • Men are expected to be both extremely old fashioned and hyper modern at the same time, where we have to play a game of "who do I have to be now." On one hand women expect high amounts of chivalry and then at the next a "you go girl cheerleader" switching on a dime.
  • Being successful in business, which means sacrifice of time, isn't valued as much as it used to be. It comes across as you have to be both lapdog and live the jet-setting playboy lifestyle.
  • There is always in the back of the mind a threat of false acquisitions hanging over a lot of dates; or even with exes if things ended poorly. It's terrifying to not know if something that was encouraged a year ago will suddenly be vindictively used for revenge
  • Also a lot of social portrayal of men being oafish and idiotic, especially as fathers; comes across in the dating realm for me as well. I have encountered a few times "oh you're a man you can't possibly understand" on first dates. I leave after that.

All in all I feel that I have little chance in finding a wife as the days pass. I keep trying, and I keep finding more and more turn offs. Some are my personal taste, but more and more seem to be the skills I have taught myself to be a good man are useless. I feel as if I had just been a lout and selfish jerk I would have had more success in dating. I do not like to entertain that at all.

I feel for men. I really do. Being married to one and a mother to another one , I greatly despair at what the world will do to my son. 

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5 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Out here lots of people just use their parents. Their parents are very willing to jump in if the kid is not in kindergarden or temporary sick so they cant go to one and need to be guarded. When both parents work its a necessity sometimes. So yes, you are very lucky that you dont have to and that you alone can be around them while they are younger. 

I would say yes. I did turn off some opportunities here and there as I didnt see them as suitable. Sadly, some "wife opportunities" slipped away. But hey, in retrospect its not really that harm. I do have a tendency toward a "good girl" archetype. Sadly, lots of them dont turn up that good after a while. So I get dissapointed in my choices a lot sometimes. Think Batya said that you need a thick skin for dating. And she is right, its a lot sometimes. But I do manage to push further. 

You are lucky you found husband in 18 and that you made a good and happy marriage. Its a jungle out there now especially at older age. 

Thank you Kwothe - I feel very lucky. We all make mistakes and have areas of our lives that aren't so great. I struggle with different things!

I think you will be absolutely fine! I think, even just the aspect of keeping on, being yourself and not getting jaded and exactly, as @Batya33said and we can all agree with - wow - a thick skin and a half really helps!

Don't take rejection too personally as well! Is probably a good mantra!

Thanks for the male perspective on this! I seriously wish you the best of luck!

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40 minutes ago, Distressedmamma said:

I agree with a lot of your posts. Also this one.  There seems to be a culture of expectation toward men from most women that I know. And from my perspective I feel that same expectation coming from men toward women. But. It's not all men. The 'nice guys' tend to get walked all over. They bend over backwards to accommodate a woman who then does not return the same level of kindness or effort. 

I think being able to challenge each other is important. A nice guy who's putting in all the effort in the world surely must be suppressing a disappointment in there somewhere.  

There's got to be more balance. We don't tend to talk much about having the ability to challenge each other. Calling out the other in a respectful way to help each other grow and make your bond closer doesn't seem to be a thing. 

In the situation I'm in... I'm with someone who is overly critical in all situations. It's a whole other story... its also unhealthy. Something I've learned from it is that I'm not perfect, and I did have plenty to learn. I've heard things about myself that I'd never considered before. I've had to reflect and work out what is my flaws (and what is him being an a hole. ) 

Anyway. I hear you. We need to have healthy expectation from the opposite sex. Not flighty fantasy of some knight in shining armour that needs nothing in return. 

The challenge aspect is an unusual angle you don't normally hear Distressed and I think you are right!

There must be great respect, complete honestly and openness - the freedom to call each other out! Have kind of, healthy arguments (someone tell me if you work that one out cos I definitely can't do that!) and just, have a sense of humour with each other! Life is serious enough! Plus, I also think, if you marry your best friend - bonus!!!

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Something else I have noticed in dating now, that bothers me. the number of self centered Single mothers. Now before you gasp in horror and grab the pitchforks, let me walk you through my position.

So I will start off with saying I have dated a few single mothers, got to know the kids when appropriate; so I am not inherently opposed to dating a single mother. However I have encountered attitudes among enough that will always give me pause.

  • I don't need a new dad for my kids
    • Okay, but then what am I doing in thier life and they in mine if there isn't a paternal role?
  • I take care of my kids and don't need anything from you
    • Again, if there isn't support for all involved; would in to be cheaper for this woman to get a gigolo? I don't want to feel like an interloper in a household where there is a naturally hostile atmosphere.
  • I don't want more kids
    • With that just up front out of the question, what incentive is there for a man to get involved? It again sounds like a relationship of convenience rather than respect and love.

While I can respect those choices, there seems to be an underlying hostility with these statements. That these women have a chip on thier shoulder from an ex, and want to exact some punishment. The next guy just happens to get the recieveing end of it.

@Distressedmamma, I really think you are on to something. Though i don't know if I would call it challenging each other; but finding ways to push the other to a mutually beneficial outcome. This may be misconstrued, but i don't want an equal. I want a woman who will be complimentary to my life, she maybe my equal or superior in some parts of life; she may be limited by comparison; but I want a woman who at the end of the day values the relationship despite our mutual flaws.

It's funny I look back on the gambit of women I have taken on dates and it's quite the spectrum. Vapid models, single moms scraping by, Doctors and doctoral candidates, socialites, redneck women, career women, and those who wanted nothing more to be a mom. Meeting them in person, through friends, and on line; but there was something lacking in a lot of those; and it was a lack of interest in me and my philosophy of life. The topic of career came up, or education things which I don't think define me; to the point I don't even mention I own and operate a business. I don't want to be viewed as a meal ticket, just as women don't want to viewed as a pair of legs and a wink.

Now i admit being nearly 40, women are wanting a measure of my fiscal stability and ability to protect economically. Yet i balk as revealing that sort of thing more and more.

It's a complex topic, and I am bouncing around and feel contradictory at times. That unfortunately is the cost of being single.

 

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@Coily I think single mums saying those things is multi-layered. 

 

Yes some bitterness from an ex. But the other side to that is single mums often feel like their kids are viewed as baggage that scare men off. So part of that is actually to say I won't burden you with their needs, I won't ask you to be their parent and I won't ask you to pay their way. I've said some of those things myself but they don't come from a place of bitterness. I view my kids as my responsibility, and also my job to protect them from being hurt. Introducing a man is potentially going to cause hurt for the kids when things go wrong so it's a really tough one to balance.

Even that scenario in itself is laced with what's not being said. The truth is if a single mum found the guy that stepped up and was everything she was looking for, I think she would embrace you putting your everything in. 

As for not wanting kids, that's a whole subject in itself regardless of whether they already have kids. People with no kids sometimes don't want any either, so if your wants are not compatible then that's just unfortunately the end of the road.   

When you do have kids already to someone else, another child changes everything. I won't do that to my children because I know they'd feel replaced by a whole new family. Some families make it work, some kids are scarred by it. My kids are 15 and 10 so there is no way I would want to start all over again either. That's a personal choice and I think it's wrong to be in  a relationship where one person is forced to sacrifice what they wanted for the other. 

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