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The Modern Dilemma! Opinions on Modern Dating, Love, Life and Career!


mylolita
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On 11/10/2022 at 10:22 AM, mylolita said:

Are we settling later in life - doing everything later. Is this making us happy, or discontent? 

Many assumed I chose to settle down later in life because I was a "career woman" (are there "career men?").  Nope.  I wanted marriage starting at 19 or so but a combo of me getting in my own way, plus the typical situations where people simply don't meet their right person till later in life, resulted in my 42 year old first marriage to my 42 year old first marriage husband and our parenthood a couple of months later. Being a geriatric pregnancy was no fun emotionally -so stressful -my one and only chance! - but wow I felt like I won the lottery between my marriage, motherhood, etc.  But I never expected ever to "have it all" if all meant a successful career at the same time as new parenthood. 

I never dated online and I met many men through dating sites -it was a really good alternative in my 30s to going to in person events and being set up by friends, etc.  I think it's a bad idea to date online for people looking for a potential date or match.  It's a good idea for people looking for chat buddies/penpals to flirt with.

I didn't feel modern actually -I felt modern in the sense of being a fan of equal pay for equal work -for men, women, people of different races and religions, etc.  I was very good at removing my career hat when I dated. My husband was and always has been very proud of my career and one of the first questions he asked me on our very first lunch date over 25 years ago had to do with why I chose my career.  He wanted to make sure I was passionate about my career -he wanted that in a mate despite being a very traditional person.  

I never labeled myself as a feminist, never expected my husband- who worked way more than full time plus cared for his aging parents, plus lots of travel -to do an equal amount of house cleaning/child care since I was the one home full time.  That was my job.  I did expect him to be just as involved as a parent, just as caring, just as invested in my son's best interests.  My husband had zero experience with kids and yet I knew he'd be a natural. He was, he is.  

This is just me!  I respect all other opinions and perspectives! Great topic.

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13 hours ago, mylolita said:

PS -  I know on some level I contribute more than enough to our marriage. Waking up at 5am, 6am - for a full day with the kids. I did every night feed whilst they were babies, I encouraged my husband to get his sleep. I have asked him a few times for help during the night but it was very very rare. 
 

I have done all the cooking and cleaning without exception for 15 years. I have had the odd job in my younger years, part time, but he would never take the money from it.

 

Weekends we spend together, and I normally get a full days break Saturday or Sunday, my husband has them then. He works very long hours - about 80 hours a week sometimes. Some days I have felt like a single parent. There are pros and cons to every coin! 
 

x

I too solo parented a ton the 7 years I was at home.  (And in the past year business travel picked up again so I am again but son is 13 so I can come and go more of course).

My husband took a couple of weeks off when our son was a newborn so we did trade off the night feedings but our son also slept through the night starting at 10 weeks (would have been sooner -we mistakenly thought we were supposed to wake him!) so there were few times after my husband returned to work that he had to help at night (he also traveled at least half the week). 

My husband has always worked far more than full time since around 1994.  As I've written in other threads I insisted on contributing to the family income from my savings and investments.  Not half -less than - but it made me feel good to contribute something.  I'd have been unhappy if my husband declined the $. 

When I started working part time (I was ready to do so after about 5 years, took me over a year to find the right job -for part of the time I was looking, our fathers died and so for part of that time I stopped actively looking) my paycheck went into our joint account we already had.  

For me I know I am a better healthier mama than I would have been in my 20s or 30s even  Even with life insurance etc I would not be comfortable at all not having my own $ and savings.  I've seen how devastating it can be for parents otherwise whether because of divorce or -heaven forbid- the spouse passing away.  Also I know for sure if I had to work full time again I could.  It's a good feeling.

I'm in the same career I was in before with some changes but I like that my resume -despite the 7 year gap -shows continuity for the last 28 years.  It was very hard interviewing at ages 48-50 with a 7 year gap.  Luckily for  the years previous to that in my new city I made sure to network a lot and meet people which helped when I started looking.  (No I don't discuss what type of work I do here).

Yes- definitely pros and cons!

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56 minutes ago, Coily said:

Something else I have noticed in dating now, that bothers me. the number of self centered Single mothers.

Why do you think I gave up on the category? 

My mom was a single mother. I have a good relationship now with my dad but grew up mostly without him. So I understand the hardship. But yes, lots of them act in that way now. Its like lots of them just did reproductive function for the sake of it and now they just dont care and expect you to accept everything while rarely giving something back. Which is fine. But then dont date and dedicate to your kid. Which is what my mom said to her work friend who was way younger then her, with failed marriage and a kid, who still expected to lead that single life. Its a very ungrateful role to be in a relationship with somebody like that. Where you are expected to be accepted by her and a kid. And where you invest some time to bond. But at the end if she decides to leave, you lose a kid too. Because at the end, you are not the dad and its not your obligation even though its expected to be through relationship. Its too much complications. 

Anyway, what you said about your dates not carying reminded me on something Chris Rock said: "Only women, children and dogs are loved uncoditionally. A man is only loved under the condition that he provide something." In some cases its very true.

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10 hours ago, mylolita said:

find my situation very unique and lucky. I do genuinely have a real option of, work or not. I know a lot of women have to work, and for that, I always thank my husband, that I have had a true choice. For that, he is probably and ironically very feminist - LOL! Although he would die to hear it! We both agreed we didn’t want to use daycare or pre school for our kids and no nannies. I’m just trying to soak it all up before they go basically, which feels very soon and very fast! 

I don't have to work - my husband could provide -but I also don't have to work because I know I can comfortably live off my investment income and I love that feeling. We can afford a luxurious lifestyle (which is subjective I know) and I don't want one meaning I don't want a large private home, lots of furniture or accessories,  I don't want a fancy car, I don't want a lot of things or stuff.  Travel -yes, for sure.  Other experiences like theater, concerts, hiking, art -yes for sure. Not at luxury level - I mean sure that's nice -but I love that we have the $ to travel although most of it is my husband's business travel.

When I was single I liked a certain fashion designer and for a couple of years went to her twice yearly sample sale and I still wear those clothes -they are lovely.  I also loved Ferragamo bags and bought one but it's really scuffed now . I have some good jewelry including pearls I bought for myself but once my son was born I still wore my engagement ring and wedding band but knew he would tug on earrings/jewelry, didn't wear as much makeup as I was always kissing and loving on him!  Fortunately except when I was pregnant I've been right around the same size the last 35 years or so - I lost weight after I was pregnant -lost below my pre pregnancy weight.  Only about 10 pounds but on a petite frame it shows.  

I work because I love it.  I love that part of me even though I also loved my work as a full time mom -I just knew when he was 5 I was ready to work part time.  It's now part of who I am, it keeps me vital, interested and to an extent interesting -I don't talk about my work a lot but my work has some really interesting parts.  My son likes to hear about it and give his input lol.  I also help my husband with his work.  Our work is somewhat related and I like that a lot.

I love that we are big savers and investors.  We both have been all of our lives as are/were our parents.  

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On 11/10/2022 at 10:22 AM, mylolita said:

Modern life - millennial generation - online dating - women and careers - career or motherhood? Can you have both? Or can you just not have both, at the same time?

I think an issue with this question is the assumption that motherhood and career each fit in some category and that within the category there's a common understanding of what each means.  I think there is so much individual variation that the conversation can quickly become unproductive as far as a "solution" despite being interesting to lots of people -here are some ways I've seen of the individual variations:

why the person became a parent/whether the person now enjoys being a parent and if so how much?

family structure -meaning is there family help -or does geography or conflict affect that?

where the person is in her career if she has one

how the person feels about her job/career/future career if any and to what extent it affects her life when she's not at her job/whether it affects her identity or if she's ever even considered that

how many children the person/couple wants to have and/or adopt and/or do fertility treatments for

Post-birth complications whether medical (me!) or PPD/PPA etc

What "having both" means to the person - does the person focus on "quality time" with children or quantity or doesn't think about it.  How much does the person outsource for child care or wish she could? (see above as far as family help). What is the relationship with the father -

What does "having both" mean in terms of career? Does it mean raises/promotions (like a friend of mine who can't believe I "just" work part time after being a "high powered career woman"

What does "having" even mean -does it mean having in terms of having materialistic stuff, having me time, having couple time, having external respect for either or both roles to "feel" like you have it all?

If it's a couple -what does having it all mean as far as the marriage, the partnership - does the person want her spouse to help her have it all by working full time and taking care of the children and cleaning house - meaning to "have it all" as opposed to "please do your part"? Does the person think she'll have it all if her spouse agrees to be the primary caregiver/home with the kids full time? 

Does "all" require a certain specific lifestyle -like the suburban private home, cars, kids can play with kids on the block, kids play sports at which one parent is always there for the games (which then affects the "all" - can't be in two places at once). 

Or is "all" a bit more atypical where it means parent wants the kids to value that their parents work, have careers, are ambitious and to do their part as far as giving up on time with their parents, not being able to do certain activities if the driving etc can't be outsourced or often can't be outsourced?

Maybe that mother doesn't feel the more typical "guilt" of "sorry I have a deadline I can't read Curious George to you tonight for a fourth time and we'll cuddle more tomorrow I promise -mom has a deadline and you know she has to get her work done - love you!" Not that she should but for sure the mother's feelings on the matter certainly impact what "all" means.

When I was a teenager my sister and I had a conversation where I said I wanted to be X for my career.  She said "well yes but you want children so why not be Assistant X so it's 9 to 5 and you won't have to work as hard and will have time for your kids".  What she said made perfect sense to her because she was never career-oriented (she is more so now, she's a grandma!) - she was really smart, so creative, so talented but not career-driven.  She was motherhood driven as I was but where she wanted the husband to provide a stable, reasonable lifestyle so she could be home and not have a job outside.

When I heard her say that it was like twilight zone. Not because I wanted it "all" but because I was extremely driven career-wise starting at least by age 12 and extremely marriage/family driven.  I was both. I

had a plan so I could do one then the other but as life happened I did -just in reverse order.  I didn't think I could have it "all" but I knew I wanted both as my top life goals. 

That's an example of where the conversation is interesting but the assumption that it means the same can lead to confusion over not being understood.  I simply knew my sister and I had very different goals.  We respected each others and still do with a couple of bumps along the way of the last 40 years or so.  

This is also why I don't focus on mom friends as people who I will bond with because they are moms.  I do focus on parent friends for the sake of my child though.  If we become actual close friends so much the better!

 

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I think another poster mentioned something similar, but regarding online dating, it exacerbates the power women have in the dating world. The instant gratification society we live in, women can get bored and find a replacement easily by swiping right on some app. And average, or even unattractive women, can almost always find some guy that’s willing to date them. There is always a “grass is greener” mentality, although good luck with fulfilling that prophecy. 

The epic thread that spawned this particular sidebar discussion is a good example. That guy is 100% convinced he is too ugly to date. How many woman have you met that says that? Not many. They have their pick. Typically, no matter their attractiveness, they can find some guy to settle. I would venture to say any woman who hasn’t had a partner by the age of 30, it’s probably by choice or being too picky. 

Kwothe touched on it as well. I’m at the age where single mothers and divorces (or both) are a good chunk of my dating pool. If you rule both those out, you have a very limited selection. Both come with a lot of baggage. The good news is for guys our age, we don’t have much baggage. Some women get to a point of almost absolute discontent and pessimism with men due to the baggage they have. They then go on dates and profess a laundry list of BS rules they expect their next man to abide by, as if I’m some puppet who is there for your convenience. It has emboldened them to a point of despotism. Who do you think you are? 

I don’t need female companionship for validation, so I don’t feel rushed to settle for something that could destroy my personal life and ruin me financially (divorce). But some guys do, and they ultimately may pay a hefty price. It’s a brutal world. And good guys RARELY win. 

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19 minutes ago, kctiger said:

 regarding online dating, it exacerbates the power women have in the dating world.  

Sadly this is true. Social media/online dating gave women a lot of "power" over dating and a lot of pleasure too as they satisfy the need for attention. Social media for women is like porn for men more or less. Plenty also make a lot of money (non judgment here I would do the same if I were a woman) from nothing*.

Dating apps as a medium are fine if used for the purpose they were intended and not only for getting attention or for finding a doormat who would listen to all your problems for free because he is literally starving for p*ssy.

It's always better to meet someone in real life or if it's on the app to meet asap, then you can level the playing field as a guy fairly easily one way or another, on the apps you have no freakin chance of doing that. 

*Of course it's because stupid guys pay to see photos and whatnot, God knows who would pay money to see photos of a random chick when there are billions on the internet for free. I would never get it. 

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1 hour ago, dias said:

*Of course it's because stupid guys pay to see photos and whatnot, God knows who would pay money to see photos of a random chick when there are billions on the internet for free. I would never get it. 

The popularity of Only Fans shows there are thousands if not millions of people willing to pay to look at photos.  There are people on Twitter who will not even respond to someone's comment/tweet unless that person pays them.  And apparently some do!  It's baffling to me.

As for the "have to work" vs. "want to work", I worked initially because I wanted to be able to support myself and my children in case of some kind of unforeseen event such as divorce or death of my spouse.  But I also wanted to enjoy what I did.  Whenever a job became unpleasant I left and found something else.  I'm super fortunate to have a job I truly enjoy that also pays well.  But I only have myself to support now.  Where was this job when I was a struggling single mother lol!

I did date while my kids were young and I did have issues with some men who thought I should leave my children alone overnight so I could stay the night with them and give them sex and companionship.  They really didn't get why I wouldn't do that.  So yeah, they probably thought I was being unreasonable.  Too bad.  I would never put my kids in potential danger just so some guy could get laid that night.  My kids always came first and anyone who didn't get that could date someone else.  I also NEVER brought a man around my kids unless and until we'd been dating at least a year, and I NEVER had a man stay overnight while I had my kids with me.  Again, if they didn't understand why, they should date someone else.

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4 hours ago, kctiger said:

think another poster mentioned something similar, but regarding online dating, it exacerbates the power women have in the dating world. The instant gratification society we live in, women can get bored and find a replacement easily by swiping right on some app. And average, or even unattractive women, can almost always find some guy that’s willing to date them. There is always a “grass is greener” mentality, although good luck with fulfilling that prophecy. 

I found this also with the bar and club scene in the 80s.  I've always found that serious minded people are not swayed by having a quantity of people/volume other than very temporarily.

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1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I found this also with the bar and club scene in the 80s.  I've always found that serious minded people are not swayed by having a quantity of people/volume other than very temporarily.

I would say my Dad is firmly serious minded and he met my Mum at a club - a country club. All my Grandparents met at army dances which is basically their version of the club! 

I actually don't see anything wrong with it at all - especially if it is a nice bar, not too loud. The old dutch courage helps! People are dressed up, letting their hair down, normally in a great mood! It's normally, I find anyway, I really nice atmosphere to meet people! I was the opposite side of it - I worked as a cocktail waitress when I met my husband, but, I kind of took that job because I just enjoyed the party atmosphere and I have always been a mega night owl who enjoyed night life and night scenes. 

I mean, you meet all sorts in bars - it's not just riff raff or people who are ditzy and silly who enjoy a drink out with mates and getting their best little dress on and a nice shirt!

x

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What are the things that make you say no thank you?

 

For me it's

No license, no job, living at home. Superficial or showy with money. 

And on a petty level .. when men wear polo shirts and tie a sweater around the shoulders. I just don't get it, it eludes to that pretentious superficial thing that I can't stand. 

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5 hours ago, mylolita said:

I would say my Dad is firmly serious minded and he met my Mum at a club - a country club. All my Grandparents met at army dances which is basically their version of the club! 

I actually don't see anything wrong with it at all - especially if it is a nice bar, not too loud. The old dutch courage helps! People are dressed up, letting their hair down, normally in a great mood! It's normally, I find anyway, I really nice atmosphere to meet people! I was the opposite side of it - I worked as a cocktail waitress when I met my husband, but, I kind of took that job because I just enjoyed the party atmosphere and I have always been a mega night owl who enjoyed night life and night scenes. 

I mean, you meet all sorts in bars - it's not just riff raff or people who are ditzy and silly who enjoy a drink out with mates and getting their best little dress on and a nice shirt!

x

I did not mean that in the least.  I meant that there were a volume of people just like on dating sites and people who are serious minded wouldn't see it as a candy store like online dating profiles -or a GIGS thing - they would still focus on meeting a good match as opposed to randomly rejecting people because there were so many to choose from.  And rejecting just based on looks.  Sorry I should have clarified.  I don't think online sites changes people from serious minded to feeling like there's always someone better just like bars and clubs, filled with singles didn't affect serious minded people in that way.

I did meet some good people at dance clubs but more when it was an organized singles event.  I didn't like meeting people who already were drunk. 

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10 hours ago, Distressedmamma said:

What are the things that make you say no thank you?

 

For me it's

No license, no job, living at home. Superficial or showy with money. 

And on a petty level .. when men wear polo shirts and tie a sweater around the shoulders. I just don't get it, it eludes to that pretentious superficial thing that I can't stand. 

Distressed!

 

This is personal taste isn’t it!

 

I find insanely sexy, a man who has his own mind and thinks for himself, a man who does his own thing (works for himself, is his own boss, runs his own life, as independent as possible). Have to admit I love a guy who can defend himself - whining wimpy guys are such a big turn off for me, that goes along with guys who are too eager to please.

 

I love to be told no, I want someone dominant in our relationship to call the shots, throw me on the bed! Take charge as a father and in business.

 

Superficially - I love stocky guys who are naturally beefy. Not a fan of the gym honed look. If a guy has a great physique from manual labour or some bi-product of something, I find that saucy, but if I know it’s take hours in the gym with supplements? It’s a turn off. I don’t know why! 
 

I also seem to have a thing for blondes! And stubble. I like a rugged man, basically. I don’t think super groomed prim and proper. I almost find it adorable and attractive if he has no fashion sense at all and brushes his teeth and just get up and goes in the morning. I see ultra stylish men and I again, like the gym addicts, feel a vanity and focus on themselves which is again, a turn off for me! 
 

Is this list too long? 🤣 I also love direct talking, straight to the point men, who don’t really care if people like them or what they say at all. I’ve always deeply respected and admired that trait, and it is actually the total opposite of my Dad, who is a bit of a people pleaser.

 

I wonder what the preferences for the gals are from the guys! 
 

x

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19 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I think an issue with this question is the assumption that motherhood and career each fit in some category and that within the category there's a common understanding of what each means.  I think there is so much individual variation that the conversation can quickly become unproductive as far as a "solution" despite being interesting to lots of people -here are some ways I've seen of the individual variations:

why the person became a parent/whether the person now enjoys being a parent and if so how much?

family structure -meaning is there family help -or does geography or conflict affect that?

where the person is in her career if she has one

how the person feels about her job/career/future career if any and to what extent it affects her life when she's not at her job/whether it affects her identity or if she's ever even considered that

how many children the person/couple wants to have and/or adopt and/or do fertility treatments for

Post-birth complications whether medical (me!) or PPD/PPA etc

What "having both" means to the person - does the person focus on "quality time" with children or quantity or doesn't think about it.  How much does the person outsource for child care or wish she could? (see above as far as family help). What is the relationship with the father -

What does "having both" mean in terms of career? Does it mean raises/promotions (like a friend of mine who can't believe I "just" work part time after being a "high powered career woman"

What does "having" even mean -does it mean having in terms of having materialistic stuff, having me time, having couple time, having external respect for either or both roles to "feel" like you have it all?

If it's a couple -what does having it all mean as far as the marriage, the partnership - does the person want her spouse to help her have it all by working full time and taking care of the children and cleaning house - meaning to "have it all" as opposed to "please do your part"? Does the person think she'll have it all if her spouse agrees to be the primary caregiver/home with the kids full time? 

Does "all" require a certain specific lifestyle -like the suburban private home, cars, kids can play with kids on the block, kids play sports at which one parent is always there for the games (which then affects the "all" - can't be in two places at once). 

Or is "all" a bit more atypical where it means parent wants the kids to value that their parents work, have careers, are ambitious and to do their part as far as giving up on time with their parents, not being able to do certain activities if the driving etc can't be outsourced or often can't be outsourced?

Maybe that mother doesn't feel the more typical "guilt" of "sorry I have a deadline I can't read Curious George to you tonight for a fourth time and we'll cuddle more tomorrow I promise -mom has a deadline and you know she has to get her work done - love you!" Not that she should but for sure the mother's feelings on the matter certainly impact what "all" means.

When I was a teenager my sister and I had a conversation where I said I wanted to be X for my career.  She said "well yes but you want children so why not be Assistant X so it's 9 to 5 and you won't have to work as hard and will have time for your kids".  What she said made perfect sense to her because she was never career-oriented (she is more so now, she's a grandma!) - she was really smart, so creative, so talented but not career-driven.  She was motherhood driven as I was but where she wanted the husband to provide a stable, reasonable lifestyle so she could be home and not have a job outside.

When I heard her say that it was like twilight zone. Not because I wanted it "all" but because I was extremely driven career-wise starting at least by age 12 and extremely marriage/family driven.  I was both. I

had a plan so I could do one then the other but as life happened I did -just in reverse order.  I didn't think I could have it "all" but I knew I wanted both as my top life goals. 

That's an example of where the conversation is interesting but the assumption that it means the same can lead to confusion over not being understood.  I simply knew my sister and I had very different goals.  We respected each others and still do with a couple of bumps along the way of the last 40 years or so.  

This is also why I don't focus on mom friends as people who I will bond with because they are moms.  I do focus on parent friends for the sake of my child though.  If we become actual close friends so much the better!

 

I simply meant, full time work and have young children at the same time. So I suppose can you do both happily and well? Can you work 40 hours a week and have two children under 3, for example? Is this a pleasant situation for women? Do they enjoy it?

 

I’ve never been in this situation and I realise you haven’t either Batya because you made provisions to stay home.

 

I wonder how women juggle it and if they are content or, wish they could maybe dial back to part time or maybe wish they could do more work! I often wonder how they do it. 
 

x

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I do think, the more children you have, the harder it is to entertain a career. It also depends how old they are and the age gaps between. If I wanted to work even part time right now, I have a just turned 1 year old who is still a baby, a 3 year old and a 4 year old. Also, the more children you have, the less likely ageing family are to take them all on for hours on end. I have actually never asked it of any of them! It’s more like, come round, I’ve made something to eat, I’m gonna run an errand for an hour and be straight back. At one point it was - do you want to look after a breastfed baby, a 2 year old and a 3 year old? No way! Family were terrified - HA! I never asked them. 
 

I would say being a Mum is my career,  as corny as that sounds. I would have loved to have had a large, close in age family - that alone is pretty much a job description in its self! You know with the sleep routines,  putting babies for naps, toddlers for naps, bit of home schooling in the morning while the baby sleeps, some arts and crafts,  a few hours at the beach or park, fitting housework into this and then during the day also carving out some time for yourself, which is a really important thing for stay at home mums I think. On a morning I take a bath, do some writing in my journal (something for myself) or read a book. I have half an hour, my kids all play together because they are close in age and best buddies and I get to have a cup of coffee and apply my make up which is a nice, quiet form of almost meditation for me! Pick out something nice but practical to wear, fix my hair and then I’m good to go! I normally carve myself out another break mid afternoon, when we come back from being out somewhere, and this is usually the tv time! They are exhausted and needing a bit of quiet - or lately I put the older two in their room they share and they read and often fall asleep, leaving me with only our baby to have to entertain. 
 

You are of course not with your children playing with them 24/7 even if you stay at home. They play together beautifully,  are best friends - or can independently get on with something while I get some laundry done or clean over the bathroom. If I had only had one child, I would have been more likely to put them into a nursery or pre school setting just for the social aspect, so I do get parents of single children wanting too make sure their child has company from other kids. Yesterday we all went out and filled and hung bird feeders off our apple trees and then they helped me pick up leaves from the lawn, sweep up and then we used the leaves to make some crafty autumn pictures and art work later in the afternoon. I might sit down with a drink and play with them uninterrupted only 1-2 hours a day. The rest is doing things together, going somewhere or them entertaining themselves whilst I get on with my work which is, housework! Old school! 
 

My daughter is really into helping me cook and make dishes so this is time spent together. 
 

Y’know, I have not much against day care or pre-school at all. They are just so close knit, my kids are never lonely. There is only 19 months between my son and daughter, they adore each other. We have one to two social play dates a week, and I have time to organise things in our community - I organised and set up a kids reading circle and playtime at our local library with a grandma and ex teacher I met there my first week coming here. Before the kitchen started getting renovated I would host a dinner party at least once a month. I meet friends on the evening for drinks. I don’t know, my social life is very full, but I love to host and entertain! We go to a beach clean up/rubbish pick up and I chat to all sorts of locals there, they come back to ours, kinda stay half the day - ha! I host all the street “seasonal parties” like Easter egg hunts, Halloween, Christmas festive parties where the kids get dressed up, the adults have some mulled wine and we just get into the mood of the season! I’m that annoying person who creates events and then you get these invitations thrown through your door to them! 

 

I don’t know! For me personally, staying at home hasn’t been a lonely venture, but I am a busy body and I get involved and create events in our small town community. The lady who runs the read group with me suggested I get involved with the school board but this was a year before I decided to try home schooling for my sons pre-school year. 
 

When I worked at the office, it was mostly deadline intense work. People weren’t too social apart from hanky panky affairs and sharing cocaine lines in the bathroom - LOL! The women were b****y and gossipy. I often would wish I worked on the “mens side”! I did enjoy aspects of it but I didn’t want that for my life if I had a choice.

 

If I’m honest? I don’t want to work. Nothing inspires me at the moment in the world or careers. Anything I would like to do would be a completely independent solo venture without a company - for example, it is a dream of mine to write a book, probably a lil’ novella! I would love to force myself to just start working on this once the kids go to bed, my husband is really encouraging about this. I would like to just say I did it and I tried, and tick it off my list. But this isn’t something I need to go out and work for. 

 

Me and my husband are very alike in that, we don’t like working for anyone. I don’t like the promotional hierarchy schemes, the reviews. The only job I really loved was, crazily, my stint lapdancing, and I think a big aspect of why I loved it was because I was 3/4 way self employed. I filled in my tax return. I had to declare my earnings. I showed up when I wanted and would pay the fee to the house. It was up to me and me alone how much I made that evening - that was not terrifying to me but totally exhilarating! If I wanted to really go for it and get into some fab head space I could roll em’ in! No set monthly salary, my earnings were completely up to me. You could sit there and drink all night, or you could work all you wanted, they hardly fired a girl. You were quite close to a free agent. 

 

If I had a passion that fell into a standard career, my path would be much more clear cut! I could say, I need to do x y and z and then become employed and work my way up and, follow that standard path. But my career at the moment are my kids and my house. I know that sounds insane, or stupid - but, I take massive pride in keeping our house running, looking neat and hopefully stylish and pretty(!) and, focusing on my marriage and husband when he comes home. Those are my main goals. I have a few hobbies, like interior design - we’re going through some big renovations at the moment, that takes up a lot of free time too. My goals might change once the kids get older. I might indulge in other things or try to peruse other hobbies. I might just be a lady of leisure? 🥲 
 

Do I want to go work? No! I don’t. I don’t want to actually go out to work as it stands later in life either. I like being master of my own time and feel I am in an absolute position of utter luxury to be able to do that! And I realise this is not the average woman’s situation, and for that I am grateful everyday, I really am. 
 

I respect women who work and raise young kids at the same time - I honestly don’t know how they do it! 
 

For me, anyway, the bored lonely housewife I’m afraid is not me. Sure, there are days things drag or I don’t like what’s happened - those days happen at the office too. I chose what I wanted to do and I am doing it and I take some pride in that, I hope I do it well, or to the best of my ability. I really try. I am constantly thinking, how can I do this better? How can we streamline this routine? How can this be more efficient? What would make my life easier? 
 

My hours are long and intense, but like anyone who does something they love, it is definitely rewarding and a source of pride.

 

I don’t think all women are happy in full time homemaker or child caring roles - there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, just how, I am no good going off and working for a company. My strengths and weaknesses are different. Some women just find it exhausting and mundane being around young kids and I get that, I really do! A woman I used to work with, I was her assistant back then, she joked to me - “When you have kids, you’ll come to work for a break.”

 

That’s not me yet but hey, there’s still time 🤣🥲

 

I actually often wish I hadn’t found going from 2 children to 3 so juggling, because I always wanted 4 kids, a little loud brood! My husbands Aunty, who was a midwife said, (who had 4 kids herself) going from 2 to 3 was the hardest transition for her.  She said it was the first time her hands felt truly full. I will say up to now, for me personally, I found 1 and 2 children easy, but I have struggling getting into a comfortable rhythm with 3. Maybe it’s odd numbers! I kinda adore the chaos kids bring! But, I think I’m gonna stop at 3. I think my husband would have 6 but it’s not him having to cook them up and push them out! HA! 
 

I am really hungry at the moment for advice on juggling 3 kids because I always found  it easy to find parents who had 2 and offered practical advice, but 3 seems to be a little less common here, although nothing special or unusual at all in the grand scheme of things. The thing I struggle most with is the competition for attention I would say. So one bambino comes in for a hug or rides on my back or we wrestle but then, hot on the heels, boom, the other piles on and then the baby! And then they ALL want the piggy back ride and they ALL wanna wrestle!! I also find it hard to carve out individual one on one time with them at the weekends. We will do the odd solo big day out with one - example of this is my husband taking my son all day to the train museum while I stayed back with the girls, or me just taking my 3 year old girl shopping for the afternoon, or to a soft play just me and her. I find it hard to get the balance right between them all, and that’s the main thing I’m working on at the moment.

 

But, I don’t want this thread to be about my version of motherhood because it’s boring - pampered housewife with some kids - we got it 🫡🤣🤣🤣
 

x

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4 hours ago, mylolita said:

I simply meant, full time work and have young children at the same time. So I suppose can you do both happily and well? Can you work 40 hours a week and have two children under 3, for example? Is this a pleasant situation for women? Do they enjoy it?

 

I’ve never been in this situation and I realise you haven’t either Batya because you made provisions to stay home.

 

I wonder how women juggle it and if they are content or, wish they could maybe dial back to part time or maybe wish they could do more work! I often wonder how they do it. 
 

x

I know very few people who work full time and only work 40 hours a week. The last time I worked full time and only 40 hours a week was when I was a headhunter for about a year in the early 90s before grad school (I work part time now -wide range though -anywhere from 15 to sometimes close to 40 hours in a given week).  

What I wrote above is why your question depends on so many individual factors even if you assume 40 hours a week as full time and a few young children.  I listed all the reasons above.  For example my friend dialed it back to part time (she is a therapist).  She now has tween-age twins and one child who is in first grade.  But her husband has terminal cancer and her mom lives with them but she took a bad fall a few months ago and is just now mobile again, can't really help with kids and her health isn't great either.  My friend is lucky if she gets an hour to do the jogging path at her local gym once a week.  My other friend has one child at home, other away at college- her child is a teenager.  Her husband probably works 70-80 hours/week plus tons of business travel. 

My friend doesn't work outside the home.  On a typical day she is up at 5-ish to drive her son to various practices at school, she does all the medical appointments, goes to all the after school activities, she does all the house-related appointments, gardening, cats related issues.  Yesterday she spent hours getting her son fitted for a suit for a school concert.  It's endless. Contrast that if her husband worked 40 hours a week with minimal travel.  Then she likely would work part time.

My husband works far more than full time.  The last time he worked a 40 hour a week job was before I met him -for 6 months in the early 90s I think he worked at a publishing type job? So between us we have at least 2 full time jobs outside the home -combining our hours. 

Also women who "dial back" to part time -what does that mean - I have friends who do those MLM businesses "part time" but sometimes they're on social media all day hawking the snake oil stuff and sometimes it's 10 hours a week. 

The other factor is - is it a job that caters to lifestyle issues -like moms, or people who have to be home to care for aging parents - if not even "dialing it back" in a work environment where there is no flexibility if your child is sick on the day of your 4 hour in person shift doesn't help with the dial back thing. 

It's one reason it took me so long to find something -I don't believe workplaces should accommodate parents with child care issues unless they also accommodate all sorts of family issues and not accommodate them at the expense of people who are single with some notion that they have no "responsibilities". 

But if it's part time with an understanding that if the child is sick/babysitter is sick, etc then often a woman will take a paycut in order to have that flexibilty or choose an industry/environment where the pay is lower but the flexibility is there.  So again it depends whether a woman can "dial it back" as far as sheer number of hours and have an easier time juggling -maybe yes, maybe no.

That's why I say it's too broad a question.  I've thought of dialing it back as my part time job is also very unpredictable -not set hours.  Hours that are set are a whole different thing because it helps with the juggling aspect.  For example I happened to have an extremely time sensitive deadline on the same day my son was home from school and my husband was traveling.  Fortunately I can telework.  Still it made it much more stressful - but I knew about the deadline and prepared. 

Other times I've gotten a call while I am packing for travel with my family about a last minute deadline.  I am "part time" but I also rarely say no because of the nature of our work.  I want to be part of the team.  At those times it's so hard to juggle.  People who have set hours can say no or simply they are away from the office when they're not on their shift.

I respect your opinion that this can be posed as a generally applicable question.  I just disagree!

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I work full time and do 40 hours.  I have only done OT at my current job twice, once for a big project someone sent me at 2:37 PM on a Friday afternoon (!) and once when the entire office and shop had to do physical inventory.  Other than those two instances it's strictly 40 hours per week.  Same when my kids were young and at home.  I almost never did OT.  But as I mentioned before, I was never interested in a high-powered career.  I just wanted a full-time job that paid decently and had good benefits.  So I was never late picking up from preschool/daycare and never had to drop a child off at an ungodly hour in the morning.

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Just now, boltnrun said:

I work full time and do 40 hours.  I have only done OT at my current job twice, once for a big project someone sent me at 2:37 PM on a Friday afternoon (!) and once when the entire office and shop had to do physical inventory.  Other than those two instances it's strictly 40 hours per week.  Same when my kids were young and at home.  I almost never did OT.  But as I mentioned before, I was never interested in a high-powered career.  I just wanted a full-time job that paid decently and had good benefits.  So I was never late picking up from preschool/daycare and never had to drop a child off at an ungodly hour in the morning.

When I worked full time there was no OT. It was a job that required crazy hours and unpredictable hours. I expected it and accepted it and completely understood why.
. I worked in that type of job for 15 years and we were well compensated. and given bonuses for most of those years

There was OT for administrative staff. For 18 years before I had kids I never had just a job. It was related to one of my two careers.
My first career only for a few years.  I have all respect for all other choices including working because a person has to and maybe it’s just a job or working to support a hobby or a side situation like being an artist or entertainer etc. I’m just sharing how I approached work and my career. It worked beautifully for me because I wouldn’t have my part time job now if I hadn’t been qualified as I was. Especially because I interviewed right after my 50th birthday.  
I knew I could never do my pre kids job after I became a mom. I mostly loved it and that chapter and stage of my life is closed. It’s all good. 

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Lolita, I don't know who's been telling you that being a full-time wife and mother is unacceptable or isn't a valid choice.  They're wrong.  It absolutely is valid.  Everyone should do what is right for them.

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7 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Lolita, I don't know who's been telling you that being a full-time wife and mother is unacceptable or isn't a valid choice.  They're wrong.  It absolutely is valid.  Everyone should do what is right for them.

I could not agree more with this !!!(and I was for 7 years and 7 months )

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Thanks girls! I think everyone is trying their best and doing what they feel is best for themselves and their family! I am eternally grateful to have a genuine choice, I know not everyone does, male or female, so for that - I am very lucky! 

I think there is a bit of a stigma as a modern women (feels that way sometimes!) if you don't have your child in childcare, pre-school or school, or if you don't work or have a career or degree. My husband doesn't have a degree or any formal education either, but I don't think he is looked down upon as much as me. It doesn't matter! I get "Stepford Wife" comments and things like that. "Must be nice to have it easy" and, y'know, I'm not gonna blame those women saying that because it's not really an insult is it! They just see me younger, with an older man, being taken care of, and I think they presume I just had kids to get my hooks into him or something 😜

I tells ya what! Being pregnant and having a new baby three times in four years is no easy ride! And for that I say, walk a mile in my shoes hoes! LOL! (Not you girls, the other ones out in the real world - HA!) 

Full time work in the UK is defined as 40 hours a week or over, and part time in the UK is defined as 40 hours or under, but it is usually more like 26 hours or 32 hours, those are average times you see in job descriptions for part time work here. 

My husband also works crazy hours too Batya! He is away for a solid week on end, sleeping out at hotels. He goes to work in London, that's where all his deals are made, or the majority of. I would say he pegs at least 80 hours a week, sometimes more. A good, easy week would be 60 hours. It's funny to see his perspective because he always says he would trade places with me in a heartbeat - and one of his goals is to work less, and spend more time with our kids. He doesn't have holidays, no time, and no sick pay, because he pays himself. It's high stress and very high risk, and all the more risky because I don't work either, but he's a risk taking kinda guy, and it got him where he is today, but it doesn't mean that the success of your livelihood and business resting on your shoulders and yours alone for nearly 20 years doesn't take its toll. 

I have to admit, when the babies were young, it was a struggle when he worked away so much. I found it especially hard when my third came along. Doing all those night feeds and waking up with them all the next morning for a full on day until bedtime once again for a week solid started to feel rough. Now she's older it's much easier, but still not perfect. 

Just food for thought - I once heard, when people are on their death bed, they never wish they worked more. They wish things like - they had spent more time with family, friends. Treat their loved ones better. Pursued hobbies and dreams, and maybe settled their regrets. This is my principle behind spending as much time as I can. I see it as... insanely precious. Because I'm not religious, I believe this is the only time I get. So those baby years, are the only years I will hold them to nurse, or snuggle, or fall asleep in my arms. His voice won't be high pitched forever, and he won't come to me and tell me he "just loves me too much!" My daughter will only ask me to spin her round so many times, and I will only be able to bury my head into my husbands chest and smell his musky scent an infinite amount of times. All of this will end. I am desperate to soak every second up as best I can.

This is why, when I spend too long cleaning the house, or fussing over dinner plans - as much as I enjoy it, there is a pang inside me because I know in doing that, I am not doing what is most important to me in the world and that is, just simply being with my husband and kids.

I wish he didn't work as long. I think you know @Batya33he nearly died last Christmas. It brought it home to me even more. I trade off the time he's away for a very comfortable lifestyle, but if someone gave me an option tomorrow to sell everything up, take the cash and go live in a little cottage in the middle of nowhere and just, soak up life and be in the moment? Man, I would be beyond tempted! I would do it! Just run wild in the outdoors and swim in brooks! I would like to wake up to the sound of my husband chopping wood outside for the fires, not the sound of him typing e-mails. I would like to see full Skys brimming with stars, zero light pollution - rather than the blue glow of screens!

But erm, I am truly going off topic here. And this IS off topic - LOL!!!

But, thank you ladies. We all have different visions of what heaven is to us.

x

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Oh Lolita I alsonlike a no nonsense straight to the point man. I am like this myself so if theres a problem, get it out and let's sort that out. And yes..  while you're at it please throw me on the bed, tie me up, spank me and make me squeal. Oh my lord! 

One of the things that attracted me to my current partner is that he described himself as dominant. I thought that was in reference to the bedroom but turns out he meant in all areas. This would be fine apart from the the part where I do not wish to be directed and told what to do for every mundane task in the house or be criticised constantly and have a back seat driver commenting on every single turn and stop we make.  

Before all of that started I thought I had the perfect package. Turns out he was just being well behaved before showing the true colours. 

Unfortunately a lot of woman do like a certain level of arseholism in a man, and it's very difficult to find the right balance there if that's your preference. 

 

I'm also interested to hear from the men what they look for in a woman. I am guessing the ones on here are less than impressed when women are looking for these things when they are just trying to be a nice guy. 

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Oh that cliche gets posted on FB over and over about you never regret you didn't work more, etc. I think it depends on what the work is.  I don't think artists or writers regret that for example.  I do take it to heart.  Full time work is thought to be 40 hours a week but that's not the measure for management type positions or partners in a firm etc - here it depends on the type of job, the industry, whether it's private or government.  In certain cases anything over 40 hours is OT and must be compensated as such etc but it's not relevant for corporate executives/managers. I'm not familiar with when it applies and when it does not.

I like the contribution I make in my job -to more than the bottom line.  I care about my work and its impact.  So it's a little different for me.

I'm sorry your husband was unwell!! What a wake up call, right? I'm so glad he is better and I do not think you have it easy at all -I cannot imagine all you do especially given how much you solo parent. My husband never ever wanted to be a stay at home dad but he is a parent who loves his son to the moon and back and shows it in all his actions, time, in his heart.  I always knew it would be that way.  His parents were also like that but I knew from knowing him he would be an awesome parent. And he is. 

He has been out since for the last 5 hours with our son -our son finally got to hang with his BFF in person after way too long - typically on Sundays he takes him to lunch and maybe to the park but this was longer and he has been traveling so much that this was much needed -his time with our son, and my me time. My husband works a lot on the weekends so I really appreciate this.  

I scrubbed the bathtub, descaled my coffee maker, went shopping, did all the usual household stuff and started packing for our upcoming trip.Otherwise you know like you my life is so easy LOL.  OK so I also had a lovely long chat with my sister -we haven't caught up in awhile -and that was awesome to do without interruption.  

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6 hours ago, Distressedmamma said:

And yes..  while you're at it please throw me on the bed, tie me up, spank me and make me squeal. Oh my lord! 

We got a keeper here! Do I like the new members!

6 hours ago, Distressedmamma said:

I'm also interested to hear from the men what they look for in a woman.

6 hours ago, Distressedmamma said:

 while you're at it please throw me on the bed, tie me up, spank me and make me squeal. Oh my lord!

Very important 😎

6 hours ago, Distressedmamma said:

Unfortunately a lot of woman do like a certain level of arseholism in a man, and it's very difficult to find the right balance there if that's your preference. 

That is in fact true. A lot of arseholism you become a jerk and an a**hole, no arseholism no women  want you. There is a fine balance which is difficult to find, it takes time to cultivate both parts and know when to be which. But it does pay off with the ladies lol

6 hours ago, Distressedmamma said:

This would be fine apart from the the part where I do not wish to be directed and told what to do for every mundane task in the house or be criticised constantly and have a back seat driver commenting on every single turn and stop we make.  

Now personally I don't think this is being dominant, it's more like being an a**hole and controlling if anything else. The "dominant" attitude in bedroom does not transition well outside of it. 

Dominance is a relative term. Being controlling might appear as being dominant at first glance but it's really not. In reality it's more about not tolerating bullsh*t all the time (sometimes you have to unfortunately), taking the initiative when necessary and doing what you actually say. Man = actions otherwise f*ck it. 

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2 hours ago, dias said:

We got a keeper here! Do I like the new members!

Very important 😎

That is in fact true. A lot of arseholism you become a jerk and an a**hole, no arseholism no women  want you. There is a fine balance which is difficult to find, it takes time to cultivate both parts and know when to be which. But it does pay off with the ladies lol

Now personally I don't think this is being dominant, it's more like being an a**hole and controlling if anything else. The "dominant" attitude in bedroom does not transition well outside of it. 

Dominance is a relative term. Being controlling might appear as being dominant at first glance but it's really not. In reality it's more about not tolerating bullsh*t all the time (sometimes you have to unfortunately), taking the initiative when necessary and doing what you actually say. Man = actions otherwise f*ck it. 

LOL! 

We want a bit of danger, controlled. Controlled danger. Very capable men are - not too common. But, they run this show. Every brick that was laid, the bridges we drive over, the sky scrapers we live in, the huge companies that were built, the army defending our countries, the huge government level decisions being made - it's all men. All mostly men. Men risk their lives everyday just keeping this world moving into the next. They are on the oil rigs risking their lives, dying in wars, breaking things down and building it back up. A man asked, how fast can we go, so let's go. They looked up into the sky and thought, let's build a rocket and get to the moon. A man asked, how far can we push this? Let's push it. A man asked, what if? How high can we build it? How big can we make it? 

My son will build the most intricate railroad track, and then destroy it the next day, for the thrill of building it bigger and better the next. My son will get further and further up our staircase and take absolute delight in seeing how high and dangerously he can make the jump to land on the floor below. My daughter doesn't have this mentality. She has different, valuable skills, but they aren't the same.

As a woman, I look to men with awe and respect and eternal gratitude and inspiration. They went from bringing the bacon home (literally in caveman days) to, bringing it home still. Being a man IS risk. They took on the mammoth, the sabre tooth. They came back with their pelts over their shoulders. We as women cooked that food for them and our babies with pride, and were thankful for it.

Men don't ask themselves, ohhh what if this all goes wrong? What if my wife dies! Who will look after the children? I need insurance? I need more degrees! Men are bold. They know, whatever life throws at them, they have it covered. My husband doesn't even think like that. He never worries about me dying. We had a conversation once and he simply said - "I would handle it, and handle it well." I was like okay okay I wanted a tear or something but! HA! He laughed. He said, we'd be more than alright. Don't ever worry.

Women are fretting constantly about men leaving them or what if this happens and then I won't be able to do x y z or provide this or that. Men don't seem to think like that. They just do it. And that's why, I believe, men are different to women!

x

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