30 And Never Had A Girlfriend, Too Ugly?

[Tinydance]

4 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I’m legitimately curious Mysterious! How many women have you asked out in 13 years? If it is under 40, then I would say that is farrrr too little to get any response at all. 
 

If you said I have asked out over 100 in 12 years I might start to think you are doing something wrong - but if it’s just not often enough, not meeting women you like and directly asking them enough, that could be your problem. That’s my hunch, anyway, not that you are unattractive or not a good catch on paper but because you may think you have asked out plenty of women but over your timeframe, actually not enough to get a positive outcome at all!

 

x

I actually also have proof that women don't really ask guys out themselves. One of my close male friends is very handsome and six foot tall. He used to be socially awkward and he didn't really talk to women much. At one point he hadn't been with any woman at all in any way for six years! Then he built up his confidence and began to get more women. But still it was him hitting on women, not really the other way around.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Yes that's right, dating is a process. A lot of it does end in rejection too so it requires to keep trying. Also it's about luck as well. I've mentioned about my best friend who only went on 4 - 5 dates from online and then found her husband of now 14 years. I mean she's pretty but not a model necessarily so why was it so easy for her? And also speaking of imperfections. Her husband actually has a stutter but she didn't care. Unfortunately her son also has a stutter because maybe it's genetic.

I didn't feel rejected as a person most of the time.  The person rejected seeing me again or dating me.  Moving along singing my song on my husband/family hunt - that way I never felt jaded or cynical more than temporarily.  Sometimes I did feel rejected as a person.  That took longer.

My friend's friend met her husband at a bar - they slept together that night and married in the early 2000s I think.  My mom met my dad at a sweet 16 party.  Some people meet right away and some of that is luck/timing, some of that is simply those people were ready -I got in my own way quite a bit with the result it took me longer (despite no guarantees).

I don't think it's unfortunate to have a child with a disability or a learning difference or something atypical nor is it unfortunate to fall in love with someone with some sort of flaw or disability.  I think it's a blessing and some blessings come with challenges.  I am short, my husband is short so the chances of us having a short child were high.  Being a short boy is hard on my son.  It's not unfortunate though.  What's unfortunate are the people he has to encounter who obviously are so unhappy with themselves they comment on it- mostly adults actually.  I married a man who has flaws.  I have flaws.  It's not about perfect but finding a good match.  People who match well very often have flaws -I don't know anyone who doesn't.  I do know of people who are far more attractive looking than me, perhaps are also smarter, perhaps have greater emotional intelligence, are more successful. 

But I don't 'see the point in that discussion -it's not a competition or comparison game. Many women would have declined to date my husband because he is short.

Many men declined to date me because I don't have the right curves, because I was too old and they didn't want to rush to try to conceive a child, because I was "too focused" on my career (and/or they assumed I wasn't married because no one had ever proposed to me), because I wasn't into auditioning sexually to see if we were so-called "compatible" before the man would choose me as someone with serious potential.  (I'm not judging people who feel that this is the proper way to test sexual compatibility and essential if they're going to invest time into getting to know the person it just wasn't my way and I never would have been comfortable with that approach).  

I have a friend in her 50s who worked really hard (I met her when we were in our early 30s) to weed out men with genetic flaws which could be transmitted to a future child -like diabetes, bad teeth (she also hated red hair and no short men either), other bad medical histories.  She succeeded because she didn't have a child with any genetic flaws - because she had no child.  Also no husband or long term person that I know of but it's been a number of years since I would know first hand (we have mutual friends and if she got married I'd hear about it).  I know as of 5-10 years ago she was single.

She wanted perfection -her form of it -she was desperate to get married and was ivy league educated, slim, pretty, successful - she chased after men who didn't want her. Declined to date men who didn't meet her exacting standards - yes we all should have standards -hers told me that the lady protested too much -she said she wanted marriage and family but her impossible standards and chasing unavailable men told me otherwise.  Perhaps this might ring true for the OP - perhaps he doesn't want it badly enough.

[mylolita]

This is very interesting - sorry OP to use your issue for thinking perspective, but I think it’s good to remember we all view things differently, depending on our self esteem, personalities, upbringing, genetics, health, gender - oh man, so many different factors!

 

Just for a corny example of how one person sees rejection vs. another!

 

When I was lapdancing/stripper for 2 years, I often didn’t have to ask for dances. But! There was a big element of competitiveness - 50 gorgeous women and only 200 men and yes, there is definitely competition, and money is involved, so I would definitely ask men for dances or coax them into the booths for a quarter of each night; four nights a week. On average I guess I might ask 25 men a night for a dance, especially when it was quiet or a slow night. Out of those 25 at least 8-10 would reject me and go with another girl. That’s professional rejection taking every week. In the two to three years I was a dancer, I will have faced thousands of rejections, but then with that volume, thousands of yes’s. I just stand by the numbers game mentality.  
 

Imagine being a guy, asking 25 girls out a night and facing maybe 15 straight rejections but keeping going? I mean, I don’t advise that approach because in a regular setting it would be insane and creepy to just, go round everyone in a room, but I mean, the attitude and way of thinking might be what is holding you back as well? I don’t have low self esteem or an easily bruised ego so my perspective on rejection is completely different to yours Mysterious, you seem to maybe be taking it to heart a little which is understandable - my attitude was, so what? Their loss! Let’s get on! And by the way, the rejection would sometimes be delivered with the odd mean comment. I have a gap inbetween my two front teeth like Madonna style - odd time that was commented on. I have extremely small boobs - completely flat chested! I was very slim. Some men wanted huge curvaceous bodies. I could have easily felt wounded, and thought, maybe I need a trip to the cosmetic dentist, or get a boob job, but I love my figure and I really love my teeth actually! And I happen to really adore peoples little quirky unique features! Y’know, each to their own as well, because even the most beautiful person is not going to be exactly to everyone’s cup of tea! The times I was rejected or the odd comment made, didn’t make me presume I might be ugly! 

 

Maybe a bit of their loss, I can do better mentality is needed and simply to keep on keeping on - it’s all most of us can do anyway, besides give up, which by the sounds of it, I don’t really think you want to do.

 

x

[mylolita]

27 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I actually also have proof that women don't really ask guys out themselves. One of my close male friends is very handsome and six foot tall. He used to be socially awkward and he didn't really talk to women much. At one point he hadn't been with any woman at all in any way for six years! Then he built up his confidence and began to get more women. But still it was him hitting on women, not really the other way around.

I also agree Tiny - women asking men out is still very uncommon. I have never asked a man out and y’know what, part of me thinks I never would. Personally, being asked and the man making that effort is a great way to start and impresses me, so I suppose them asking me is my first “requirement”. Maybe that sounds bad, just firing thoughts and being honest HA! 🥲

 

x

[DarkCh0c0]

How about you post a picture of yourself, full body, and let us really get in touch with what's stopping the women from even saying hello back to you?

We might be able to give you some more valuable feedback since this is where you're allegedly stuck.

We can tell mods to delete it once you get all the feedback. Or post a link that expires to it.

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I have a friend in her 50s who worked really hard (I met her when we were in our early 30s) to weed out men with genetic flaws which could be transmitted to a future child -like diabetes, bad teeth (she also hated red hair and no short men either), other bad medical histories.  She succeeded because she didn't have a child with any genetic flaws - because she had no child. 

Lol. I dated the girl who told me that she left her 1,5 years relationship because she met his family and his aunt was kinda crazy. She joked(at least I hoped at the time, but maybe there was an element of truth) how she "doesnt mix her genetic material with just anybody". 

Anyway, OP, how is your "numbers game"? Lets say you meet 20 women. And that you want to get to know better 10 of them. Do you ask for phone number? Call out on date? How many of 10 of them straight up reject you? 

I am asking because lots of people dont get straight up rejected but just assume (out of fear of rejection or low self- esteem) that they dont have a shot. So they dont "shoot their shot" and ask for further contact. If you for example get straight up rejected out of all of those 10 women, then I would consider that you are lacking something and that you need to improve. But I just cant see how somebody that is generally prolific gets rejected that hard. Dont get me wrong, I emphatize a lot because dating trully is hard sometimes. Just asking to determine what you might do or not do so you would get dates and relationships.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

How about you post a picture of yourself, full body, and let us really get in touch with what's stopping the women from even saying hello back to you?

It's not allowed. Besides he uses dating apps for this and his real life feedback.

[DarkCh0c0]

29 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's not allowed. Besides he uses dating apps for this and his real life feedback

He could add a pic. Other people have done so before.

That's my suggestion since he's really bent on the fact his face is what's stopping him from getting any date.

[abitbroken]

I have not been around in awhile, but have to say "We are doing this again?"  Another 7 page, which will be 12 pages about a dude thinking they are too ugly to date.  If you think that= then you are.  Look at Steven Tyler's yearbook photo.  He is an internationally known rock star and he admits he was very unfortunate looking so that's why he got involved with music.  I still think he is odd looking/not an attractive man. 

If you can't meet a woman because you think your face is ugly, you don't want to meet a woman and have decided to not cultivated ANYTHING about yourself thats interesting or you only want a supermodel

ugly+rich =wife/girlfriends
ugly+kind=wife/girlfriend
ugly+funny=wife/girlfriend
ugly+humanitarian=wife/girlfriend
ugly+rescues kitties=wife/girlfriend
ugly+complains about being ugly=no wife/girlfriend or one that is an extreme bully that sees someone that they can kick around
 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

That's my suggestion since he's really bent on the fact his face is what's stopping him from getting any date.

True, but reassurances don't make a dent in cognitive distortions like this. Only a qualified therapist could do that. There are already apps for this type of thing:

"Hot or Not, currently rebranded as Chat & Date, is a rating site that allowed users to rate the attractiveness of photos submitted voluntarily by others. The site offered a matchmaking engine called 'Meet Me' and an extended profile feature called "Hotlists". "

 

[moodindigo91]

35 minutes ago, abitbroken said:

I have not been around in awhile, but have to say "We are doing this again?"  Another 7 page, which will be 12 pages about a dude thinking they are too ugly to date.  If you think that= then you are. 

 

35 minutes ago, abitbroken said:

If you can't meet a woman because you think your face is ugly, you don't want to meet a woman and have decided to not cultivated ANYTHING about yourself thats interesting or you only want a supermodel

this should be marked as the solution lol 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

True, but reassurances don't make a dent in cognitive distortions like this. Only a qualified therapist could do that. There are already apps for this type of thing:

"Hot or Not, currently rebranded as Chat & Date, is a rating site that allowed users to rate the attractiveness of photos submitted voluntarily by others. The site offered a matchmaking engine called 'Meet Me' and an extended profile feature called "Hotlists". "

 

I agree that photos are irrelevant and won't help the OP and might hurt (not because his looks would be criticized but because it calls attention to the wrong issues and gives him attention that allows him to justify his negative comfort zone -meaning even if people react with "you're handsome" or "you're totally fine!" -he will find a way to distort that and again focus on the looks issue -which obviously -to me anyway -is not the real issue)

[DarkCh0c0]

1 hour ago, moodindigo91 said:

1 hour ago, abitbroken said:

 

1 hour ago, abitbroken said:

If you can't meet a woman because you think your face is ugly, you don't want to meet a woman and have decided to not cultivated ANYTHING about yourself thats interesting or you only want a supermodel

Expand  

this should be marked as the solution lol

Agreed!

[Tinydance]

2 hours ago, abitbroken said:

I have not been around in awhile, but have to say "We are doing this again?"  Another 7 page, which will be 12 pages about a dude thinking they are too ugly to date.  If you think that= then you are.  Look at Steven Tyler's yearbook photo.  He is an internationally known rock star and he admits he was very unfortunate looking so that's why he got involved with music.  I still think he is odd looking/not an attractive man. 

If you can't meet a woman because you think your face is ugly, you don't want to meet a woman and have decided to not cultivated ANYTHING about yourself thats interesting or you only want a supermodel

ugly+rich =wife/girlfriends
ugly+kind=wife/girlfriend
ugly+funny=wife/girlfriend
ugly+humanitarian=wife/girlfriend
ugly+rescues kitties=wife/girlfriend
ugly+complains about being ugly=no wife/girlfriend or one that is an extreme bully that sees someone that they can kick around
 

Speaking of Steven Tyler, this is just random but the other day I literally made a comment how he's so weird looking but he made such a beautiful daughter  - Liv Tyler. She's gorgeous.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, abitbroken said:

"We are doing this again?"  Another 7 page, which will be 12 pages about a dude thinking they are too ugly to date. 

Every now and then someone migrates over from reddit red pill with this rhetoric.💊

[Carnatic]

It can be difficult to get past the seeing yourself as too ugly for love. I think it often goes back to school, teenagers can be both obsessed with appearance as the only way to determine someone's worth and brutal when it comes to letting someone know how they measure up. Made worse by the dating pool being so small at that age that a kid seen as unattractive can soon find themselves feeling like every girl/boy in the world has personally told them they're ugly. Not easy mental shackles to cast off as an adult.

We don't look as adults the same as we did as teenagers. After moving away for uni, when I returned to my home town I could walk around without being recognised by people who just five or six years ago had teased me for being ugly. Kids can be oddly specific with what they consider attractive too, it's like they don't really know what sexual attraction is yet. Many of the most strikingly beautiful people were thought of as ugly by people who didn't know what they were looking at.

Maybe a thought experiment would be a nice change from the current discussion. OP, say you somehow discover this evening that you're actually highly attractive. Maybe you post a photo on that hot or not site (is that really still going? I had no idea, I remember that) and get immediate high marks, people with no reason to flatter you, and no additional complication of it being about matching for dating just liking what they see. Or maybe someone who you for whatever reason know wouldn't flatter you, tells you you're hot.

What you do next?

[Tinydance]

11 minutes ago, Carnatic said:

It can be difficult to get past the seeing yourself as too ugly for love. I think it often goes back to school, teenagers can be both obsessed with appearance as the only way to determine someone's worth and brutal when it comes to letting someone know how they measure up. Made worse by the dating pool being so small at that age that a kid seen as unattractive can soon find themselves feeling like every girl/boy in the world has personally told them they're ugly. Not easy mental shackles to cast off as an adult.

We don't look as adults the same as we did as teenagers. After moving away for uni, when I returned to my home town I could walk around without being recognised by people who just five or six years ago had teased me for being ugly. Kids can be oddly specific with what they consider attractive too, it's like they don't really know what sexual attraction is yet. Many of the most strikingly beautiful people were thought of as ugly by people who didn't know what they were looking at.

Maybe a thought experiment would be a nice change from the current discussion. OP, say you somehow discover this evening that you're actually highly attractive. Maybe you post a photo on that hot or not site (is that really still going? I had no idea, I remember that) and get immediate high marks, people with no reason to flatter you, and no additional complication of it being about matching for dating just liking what they see. Or maybe someone who you for whatever reason know wouldn't flatter you, tells you you're hot.

What you do next?

Yeah I got bullied in high school for my looks and whatever reasons. Probably no real reason but just to be mean. It can definitely affect your self-esteem very negatively. It wasn't until probably my late 20's that I actually began to realise I wasn't ugly. It made such a huge difference to how I felt about myself and interacted with people.

[MysteriousTelephone]

21 hours ago, Tinydance said:

OK well you are not disfigured in any way which is definitely a plus! I'm actually not being patronising but some people really are disfigured. You probably also don't have anything wrong with your skin such as acne, since you never mentioned that. 

I'm not invalidating your experiences but dating really is very hard. I'm speaking from my own experience as well. I mean, when I'm walking down the street or your average person, it's not like heads are being turned. I'm not sure why you have all these "pretty people" friends but most people are not necessarily pretty. 

Also I have had some people be jerks to me about my looks. Thankfully not that many. I do remember one guy from online dating, when I said I enjoy walking, looked me up and down and said: You don't LOOK like a walker". What he implied of course is that only slim people can like walking! Overweight people simply cannot like walking because didn't you know, they never move from the couch! Lol

Anyway you can't change your face so I think accepting it might be the next step. If there is technically nothing wrong with your face then I'm sure someone will like you one day. I mean you can't even really pinpoint what about you is "ugly" and neither could your friends. If they didn't believe you maybe it's because they don't actually think you're ugly?

No, sadly, they really are "pretty people", that's not even just my own opinion. They spent their 20s in a bubble of kindness, free drinks and outdoor sex. I am definitively the odd one out when we take group photos. As lovely as they are, they're not my target market; they are straight men and married women. So while they might coo "Oh there's nothing wrong, any woman would be lucky to have you!" it literally means nothing as the single women of the world seem to hold a different opinion. It's like saying your brand of rubber tyres is only rated highly by people who don't have cars: it's nice and all, but what can you do with that information?

Acceptance of the face is one thing, but I never really had a problem with it in the first place. So as much as I've always accepted it... where do you go from there?

21 hours ago, mylolita said:

I’m legitimately curious Mysterious! How many women have you asked out in 12 years? If it is under 40, then I would say that is farrrr too little to get any response at all. 
 

If you said I have asked out over 100 in 12 years I might start to think you are doing something wrong - but if it’s just not often enough, not meeting women you like and directly asking them enough, that could be your problem. That’s my hunch, anyway, not that you are unattractive or not a good catch on paper but because you may think you have asked out plenty of women but over your timeframe, actually not enough to get a positive outcome at all!

 

x

Honestly, that sounds about right. 100 in 12 years, breaks down to asking out 8 women per year, even adjusting for Covid it still works out about asking out 9.5 women per year. So yes, I would certainly lowball at 100, maybe 150. Not often enough? Maybe, I really don't keep a tally of the women I've asked out, or even what constitutes "asking out". Does it only apply to women I've actually asked to go out on a date? If so, that's around that 100 number you're talking about. But then what about women I may not have asked out directly, just tried to get to know a little better, and was shut down? Do they count? Or women in clubs and bars that just move away from me if they see me? Or the hundreds of people swiping 'no' on me over the last 12 years? I mean it's easy to say "not enough, keep at it!" but this does feel like a secret campaign against me at this point.

21 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I actually also have proof that women don't really ask guys out themselves. One of my close male friends is very handsome and six foot tall. He used to be socially awkward and he didn't really talk to women much. At one point he hadn't been with any woman at all in any way for six years! Then he built up his confidence and began to get more women. But still it was him hitting on women, not really the other way around.

Oh I'm under no illusions, I know women don't ask guys out themselves, I never expected it. My issue, as I continue to mention, is not a confidence issue, it is that women find me unattractive. 

20 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

How about you post a picture of yourself, full body, and let us really get in touch with what's stopping the women from even saying hello back to you?

We might be able to give you some more valuable feedback since this is where you're allegedly stuck.

We can tell mods to delete it once you get all the feedback. Or post a link that expires to it.

I definitely think we are at that point now where I could post a picture of a person from a Victorian freak show, and the members of this thread would chime in with "See? You're not so bad! It's just an insane coincidence! Now get back out there, you scamp!", whether it's to be reassuring or just genuinely to contradict me at this point.

19 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Lol. I dated the girl who told me that she left her 1,5 years relationship because she met his family and his aunt was kinda crazy. She joked(at least I hoped at the time, but maybe there was an element of truth) how she "doesnt mix her genetic material with just anybody". 

Anyway, OP, how is your "numbers game"? Lets say you meet 20 women. And that you want to get to know better 10 of them. Do you ask for phone number? Call out on date? How many of 10 of them straight up reject you? 

I am asking because lots of people dont get straight up rejected but just assume (out of fear of rejection or low self- esteem) that they dont have a shot. So they dont "shoot their shot" and ask for further contact. If you for example get straight up rejected out of all of those 10 women, then I would consider that you are lacking something and that you need to improve. But I just cant see how somebody that is generally prolific gets rejected that hard. Dont get me wrong, I emphatize a lot because dating trully is hard sometimes. Just asking to determine what you might do or not do so you would get dates and relationships.

I never really had a fear of rejection, I think when you're exposed to it early on it just desensitizes you to it going forward. So really, I can strike up and hold a conversation with anyone, no problem, never had the "Can't talk to her, she's out of my league!" feeling; they're all out of my league, so I may as well talk to someone. I really can't give you hard numbers as every situation is different; asking for numbers only happens if I've been talking to someone for a little bit, which only happens if they allow me to talk to them. So take the 10 women I may be interested in, the possibility of even asking for a number will only occur with maybe 2?

15 hours ago, abitbroken said:

I have not been around in awhile, but have to say "We are doing this again?"  Another 7 page, which will be 12 pages about a dude thinking they are too ugly to date.  If you think that= then you are.  Look at Steven Tyler's yearbook photo.  He is an internationally known rock star and he admits he was very unfortunate looking so that's why he got involved with music.  I still think he is odd looking/not an attractive man. 

If you can't meet a woman because you think your face is ugly, you don't want to meet a woman and have decided to not cultivated ANYTHING about yourself thats interesting or you only want a supermodel

ugly+rich =wife/girlfriends
ugly+kind=wife/girlfriend
ugly+funny=wife/girlfriend
ugly+humanitarian=wife/girlfriend
ugly+rescues kitties=wife/girlfriend
ugly+complains about being ugly=no wife/girlfriend or one that is an extreme bully that sees someone that they can kick around
 

I.... don't even know where to start with this one, but you're completely off. I'm not an incel with no hobbies or friends or social life, wondering why Peak 2000s Heidi Klum doesn't just fall into my lap. You've really got the wrong end of the stick here.

15 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

"Hot or Not, currently rebranded as Chat & Date, is a rating site that allowed users to rate the attractiveness of photos submitted voluntarily by others. The site offered a matchmaking engine called 'Meet Me' and an extended profile feature called "Hotlists". "

 

Now you're talking! It does seem overly optimistic that the guy who can't get a single match on Tinder would upload himself to a "Hot Or Not" site, but I'd honestly rather get opinions/feedback from people who've never spoken to me and have no preconceived notions.

7 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Yeah I got bullied in high school for my looks and whatever reasons. Probably no real reason but just to be mean. It can definitely affect your self-esteem very negatively. It wasn't until probably my late 20's that I actually began to realise I wasn't ugly. It made such a huge difference to how I felt about myself and interacted with people.

Like I said, I generally don't think of or see myself as ugly, that's just the data I'm getting. Every interaction where I'm feeling good about how I look, or what I'm doing, yields just as much of a positive outcome as if I walked up to a woman and threw up on her shoes.

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Carnatic said:

Kids can be oddly specific with what they consider attractive too, it's like they don't really know what sexual attraction is yet. Many of the most strikingly beautiful people were thought of as ugly by people who didn't know what they were looking at.

To me there's a world of difference between what sorts of physical features someone finds attractive or odd or ugly and sexual attraction.  I notice what I find attractive looking about women -or odd- but nothing to do with sexual attraction.  By contrast I've been sexually attracted many times to men with nothing whatsoever to do with immutable physical features. 

Many years ago I was friendly with a woman who was very attractive looking and very into her looks and looks in general.  I mentioned to her that I found dark hair and blue eyes attractive in men ( so yes in that case the physical features were connected to sexual attraction- meaning all else equal I'd likely notice a man with those traits before someone with brown eyes). 

She knew I was thinking of breaking up with a boyfriend and she told me that she'd met the perfect man for me.  He was single/right age but the main reason was that he had dark hair and blue eyes. I was shocked that she'd think that that would make him right for me to pursue to date (we were in our 30s).  I can't relate to such a narrow focus on physical features and what would make a good match/sexual attraction.

One of my long term boyfriends had a conventionally unattractive looking face.  One time (again we were in our 30s) a coworker of mine -female- gave me a look when she met him meaning "how can you date someone who looks like that??"  By contrast I had a serious boyfriend (who is now married to a man but was straight/in denial at the time) who was drop dead gorgeous looking - and there were a few who commented as far as how did I get such a gorgeous guy (since he obviously was better looking than me). 

There will always be people who tend toward the more shallow.  Sexual attraction often has a visual component.  I don't think lasting sexual attraction does or not nearly as much.  I

think some people prioritize arm candy above all else or think they will be more valued if their partner looks a certain way.  And the sexual attraction is really more of "ohhhh see what I was able to get" as opposed to it being a combination of physical features but the unexplained za za za zoom that really doesn't change if the visual changes. Extreme changes -especially hygiene type changes -sure - but in general -nope.  IMHO as an old married lady.

This is why it's better to meet in person ASAP whether through a dating site or blind date and/or meet people where the focus is on the reason for meeting -whether it be an activity like hiking or a book club or going on an art gallery tour or playing pickleball or doing a DIY class at a local Home Depot.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

 It does seem overly optimistic that the guy who can't get a single match on Tinder would upload himself to a "Hot Or Not" site, but I'd honestly rather get opinions/feedback from people who've never spoken to me.

Yes try that site since you already like cheap hook-up looks-based apps like tinder. You'll get exactly that. Opinions from people you've never met. Even ones that are consistent with your stance. A sort of confirmation bias heaven.

[Kwothe28]

3 hours ago, MysteriousTelephone said:

I never really had a fear of rejection, I think when you're exposed to it early on it just desensitizes you to it going forward. So really, I can strike up and hold a conversation with anyone, no problem, never had the "Can't talk to her, she's out of my league!" feeling; they're all out of my league, so I may as well talk to someone. I really can't give you hard numbers as every situation is different; asking for numbers only happens if I've been talking to someone for a little bit, which only happens if they allow me to talk to them. So take the 10 women I may be interested in, the possibility of even asking for a number will only occur with maybe 2?

But that is what I am talking about, you shouldnt think that because then you subconsciously think you are not good enough for any girl. That is not the right mindset to have when you are dating. As you at least need to think you are good enough for girls you are approaching for them to think that too.

Also, I asked about numbers because, on Tinder or in real life, its more about that. On Tinder you would get matches but most of them wont even respond on first message. The ones that do would maybe just respond with one- note disinterested answers and only few you would have some kind of convo and can, for example, ask for a date.

Same in real life. If out of 10 people you ask just 2 for numbers, chances are none of those 2 wouldnt want a date. But for example, lets say you talk to 30 people. That would mean you would ask 6 of them numbers. Out of 6 of them, there is a good chance at least 1 or 2 would want a date. So you would maybe have to up those numbers. Sad reality is that you are not the average girl or male underwear model. So for the most opportunities, you would have to claw for them and make them yourself.

So, in the words of Matthew McConaughey from "The Wolf of Wall Street"

 

[mylolita]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

But that is what I am talking about, you shouldnt think that because then you subconsciously think you are not good enough for any girl. That is not the right mindset to have when you are dating. As you at least need to think you are good enough for girls you are approaching for them to think that too.

Also, I asked about numbers because, on Tinder or in real life, its more about that. On Tinder you would get matches but most of them wont even respond on first message. The ones that do would maybe just respond with one- note disinterested answers and only few you would have some kind of convo and can, for example, ask for a date.

Same in real life. If out of 10 people you ask just 2 for numbers, chances are none of those 2 wouldnt want a date. But for example, lets say you talk to 30 people. That would mean you would ask 6 of them numbers. Out of 6 of them, there is a good chance at least 1 or 2 would want a date. So you would maybe have to up those numbers. Sad reality is that you are not the average girl or male underwear model. So for the most opportunities, you would have to claw for them and make them yourself.

So, in the words of Matthew McConaughey from "The Wolf of Wall Street"

 

Feed the goose, keep loose 🤣🤣🤣

[mylolita]

Sorry @MysteriousTelephone, we were being polite, you’re too ugly - give up 🤓

 

I hope that helps! 
 

No, seriously, I think @Kwothe28is onto something, I really do. People have a lovey knack of picking up on negativity or desperation or whatever you want to name your feelings of “everyone out of my league” it just seems, defeatist, before you’ve ever begun. And I know 12 years is along time but people have to wait or look for much longer, it’s definitely not uncommon. Most men could probably write your post at some point in their life, if not for a majority of it.

 

I think I’m trying to say, it’s not as bleak or bad or hopeless as you might think. 
 

You’re probably great at other things - people can’t get an easy ride on everything in life. Maybe you are academic, practical, naturally athletic, funny, have a special talent or a loving and caring family. We all struggle with something. What comes easy to one is not going to be easy for another, and vice versa.
 

x 

[mylolita]

And, sorry you think this is a campaign against you - “just do better” - I can tell you your perception of that is unfortunately way off, people are just taking their time to try to help, be nice and offer up suggestions that may have worked for them or others they know.

 

Maybe if you think I have some kind of campaign against you, and I don’t, you are negatively spinning your interactions with women before you even begin? You have just negatively spun your interaction with me - and I honestly have no altering motive or, I’m not trying to bash you or put you down or tell you you are silly or just need “to do this one thing” at all. Hey, if I were single, you might’ve put me off too with the attitude! Maybe don’t think the worst? 
 

We’re just trying to help. If you have done everything possible then, if you want a relationship time will tell and you will just have to wait, like so many people do. Some people don’t get it right first time either. They get divorced or have terrible relationships. 
 

I’m going to sign off this delightful thread because I don’t think I can make anymore helpful suggestions for you OP.

 

All the best,

x

 

[Coily]

Just a thought for the OP, maybe write a sample dating profile (leaving it very anonymous) on a separate thread. Sometimes it is the tone we unintentionally impart negatives.

I have to wonder if you have gone in to asking a woman out with the already defeated mindset? I know a lot are talking about seeming desperate etc, but self defeat may come across more strongly than expected.

Have you written down a list of characteristics you are looking for, and won't settle on? If so have you shared it with worthwhile friends who want to help?

It is dang annoying to be stuck in the rejection rut, it seems there is no way out. Hope you find your feet, and have a lot of luck.