Is "not being a planner" a red flag in dating?

[electricorchid]

Hi everyone, I recently started talking with someone I'm romantically interested in. He has a very strong presence on a social media platform that I won't mention but know you're all familiar with and he gives romantic dating advice. He lives 2 hrs by plane away from me, and we met in the private DM's of this app. 

We've been facetiming back and forth and he seems very interested in talking with me as he asked to facetime again tomorrow. Now, I actual am a fan of the general things that he was saying in some of his videos, and I truly had such a good time on both facetimes (different times) that we did. However, he said something that really struck me the wrong way and while I'm tried to not put him on a pedestal bc in a way he's an online dating coach himself I can't help but wonder if this is exactly WHY he's single. 

We're quite opposites in terms of interests, but in terms of life goals, values, and our lifestyles we seem to definitely align. Here's what struck me the wrong way though: He said that I must know, that he doesn't like to plan "stuff" and When I asked him what he meant he said he'd rather he show up or that he's a very punctual person when it comes to the plan itself but that he hates setting things up (the analogy he made was towards a vacation) and then he proceeded to say on a vacation the only things he'll typically book is the actually flight but other than that little details like in the itinerary he doesn't care to do. 

The vacation analogy was fine, but then when I confronted him about if he means he also doesn't like in other certain situations like for example a date? He said he does and that he doesn't mind but that it's not his forte and such but he will most definitely do it. All my ex's when I think about it... have really been planners, naturally such men are when they are trying to PURSUE you. So I really did not understand what the hell he meant by this and think that it might be a red flag that I definitely don't want to ignore. 

What are your thoughts? Should I bring this up to clarify what he meant next time we talk? Because up until today I realized that I do think that to me personally it's important for a man to be assertive in his plans. I can't always be the one doing the work... I don't mind making plans and focusing on attention to detail things but I almost feel like it accidentally came out of him to almost like warn me. Idk, HELP. 

[DarkCh0c0]

Did he make plans for you to meet?

I agree with you. Definitely red flag. He's telling you he will make zero efforts right-off-the-bat. So believe him.

I would personally stop pursuing him as I find that very unattractive and lazy. Who knows, maybe because he speaks with a lot of women he gets away with being lazy as they all want to please him.

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, electricorchid said:

 He lives 2 hrs by plane away from me,  he's an online dating coach 

It's ok to be a fan, but you've never met, aren't dating and aren't in a relationship.

Take a break from listening to him. Take a break from that app/channel.

Instead get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting local real men in real life.

[Batya33]

It's a red flag because of the context in which he is saying it and it's an extreme statement.  I plan too much but recognize that and so I do my best to go with the flow/be more spontaneous when I can be.  But  -it's a far cry from someone using it as an excuse to act unreliably and disrespectfully with others.  "Sorry you laid out the money for the concert tickets and I changed my mind - I'm not much of a planner."  "Next Saturday? Out to meet up with your friends for dinner?  I'll let you know Saturday afternoon - I'm not much of a planner and I might not be in the mood."

But - "yes let's go to Vegas for a long weekend -I'll see about tickets for a show but how about we leave Saturday open and see what we feel like -whether a hike or walking on the strip."  

Since he is a stranger for practical purposes I'd choose to move on now and not plan to meet him in person.  It's not worth the stress. I disagree with the "pursue" part because even if the man does most of the asking out in the very beginning.

The planning he's talking about has nothing to do with pursuit.  It's a mindset -a passive one - he will show up for people as long as they initiate all the planning and logistics - does he do this with his work too? Or just with social stuff? Certainly reciprocity is fine but no you shouldn't do all the heavy lifting in a two person interaction.

[mical]

9 hours ago, electricorchid said:

he's an online dating coach himself I can't help but wonder if this is exactly WHY he's single. 

Not all dating coaches are long-term relationship coaches. He could be a player.

You never met in person and are not even dating, so I wouldn’t do anymore confronting him about his planning / assertiveness. 

I’d also suggest dating men in your local area and avoid any online dating gurus.

 

[melancholy123]

2 hours by plane is too much.  The expense would be too much.

I'd forget about this guy, he sounds like a flake to me.  Find someone local.

 

[Rose Mosse]

Why is he FaceTiming you daily living a plane ride away? Doesn’t he have better things to do with his time? 

You may be misunderstanding his communication and he could be gathering info about a lot of women and how they think. That’s what these supposed dating gurus on YouTube do to stereotype and come up with broad approaches and advice on what women and men should do.

I’d pepper up any advice you’re getting with some common sense and stay local. Dating locally will avoid long distance issues not seeing someone regularly to determine if what they say is real or not. You’re getting lost in this and thinking he has a thing for you and I don’t really buy it. He would seem a bit of a quack to me(sorry). 

Regarding planning, people plan usually because they have to. It’s a life skill and necessity, not an option. It sounds like you both are casually bantering and you’re taking what he says too seriously.

[DarkCh0c0]

10 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

You may be misunderstanding his communication and he could be gathering info about a lot of women and how they think

I met a famous YouTube Canadian pick up artist last summer during an expat party. Oh boy... The way he talked about women was just so degrading. He told other men that they can get whatever woman they want and that all women think the same. Ridiculous! Luckily, all the women were giving him the dirty looks.

Then later I heard him tell some people proudly how he and his male friend found underage girls in a nearby tourist town and slept with them....

[Lambert]

Why are you getting interested in someone 2 hours away? Oh and plus he is not a planner? 

How is that going to work? 

Look at the choices you're making..  they don't seem to align with what you actually want. 

[mical]

35 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

I met a famous YouTube Canadian pick up artist last summer during an expat party. Oh boy... The way he talked about women was just so degrading. He told other men that they can get whatever woman they want and that all women think the same.

Oh I know! And it’s lame when you hear them pushing guys to act and be like an “alpha” whatever that is and they can get any woman this way.

I was at the gym and this guy was trying to act all tough and had a tattoo that said “ALPHA DAWG” 🐩  so perhaps he was watching too many of these ‘dating gurus’ 🤣🤣

[DarkCh0c0]

@mical now that you say this, I remember him mentioning something about alpha and beta males. Smh...

And an alpha dog tattoo? Haha he might be watching some of these videos indeed. But it's good. It's like a heads-up for the ladies! (Or a warning...)

[reinventmyself]

I think things start off on the wrong foot when you are a fan of someone and develop romantic feelings after the fact.  You are a fan of his online persona which will likely not line up with him in real life.  

Someone who's a professed dating coach makes it his goal to know all the tricks.  Whether valid or not, it would give me an uneasy feeling.

The whole "I don't plan" in this context smacks of him saying "don't count on me"  If he has expert advise he would be suggesting to pay attention to see if people are consistent.   He just told you he's not.

There's an old saying "A woman loves a man with a plan" For me it's true.  It paints a picture of someone who's consistent and reliable.  Two important things I personally look for in a partner.  Not planning means non commitment.  If he doesn't plan, it leaves all the heavy lifting to make things happen on you.  After all he warned you.

If someone told me he didn't plan, I'd probably pass.  There seems much more to this statement.  After all that's what brought you here to begin with.  Tread carefully and listen to your gut.

[reinventmyself]

I went on few dates with a guy.  After the first kiss goodnight, he whispered to me that we should practice the KISS principle.  I asked what this meant, and he replied "Keep It Simple".  (no doubt a silly line from sort of dating advise he had read)  I immediately balked.  What a thing to say!  I didn't say a word in the moment and left.  That comment served as a warning to not take him seriously.   I gladly took his advise, listened to my gut and didn't respond to his phone calls.  

He was actually one of my clients and I had to see him occasionally.  Fast fwd, I eventually did agree to date him a few more times and the tables swiftly turned and he ended being some sort of stalker.  He went from telling me to not him seriously, to me struggling to get him to now leave me alone.  I should have listened to that initial uneasy feeling

[DarkCh0c0]

19 minutes ago, reinventmyself said:

Not planning means non commitment

You nailed it!

6 minutes ago, reinventmyself said:

After the first kiss goodnight, he whispered to me that we should practice the KISS principle.  I asked what this meant, and he replied "Keep It Simple

Smh... You were right from the beginning. That would make me run too. So cheezy and such a turn off!

[mical]

23 minutes ago, reinventmyself said:

he whispered to me that we should practice the KISS principle.  I asked what this meant, and he replied "Keep It Simple". 

Now that’s a man with a plan! 🤦‍♂️ 

[Kwothe28]

3 hours ago, reinventmyself said:

I went on few dates with a guy.  After the first kiss goodnight, he whispered to me that we should practice the KISS principle.  I asked what this meant, and he replied "Keep It Simple".  (no doubt a silly line from sort of dating advise he had read)

Good thing he didnt do the "DENNIS system" 😁

Anyway, OP, have you ever thought that he is just BSing about stuff and just tells you what you want to hear? Lots of those internet personalities are just "selling" the persona and are not like that in person. Even that "planner" thing is maybe just something with "the hook". Lots of those "dating experts" advise for you to be disingaged. Because some people actually get turned on by that kind of behavior. 

[smackie9]

Have a date checklist. Mine would be  this: the guy initiates a time and place. Calls before to confirm plans. Shows up ON TIME, all spit and polished. Opens doors and acts like a gentleman, friendly confident, asks questions, no pervy gross talk, good eye contact, positive intellectual conversation, etc. 

[DarkCh0c0]

39 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

Opens doors

Emphasis on opening the door lol

This is a thing of mine as well. Whenever I saw a man rush to a door before me and go out before me, immediately I am turned off and then 2 minutes later I'm like "I gtg. I got this thing to do" . 😂 never failed me!

[mical]

46 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

. Opens doors 

Yes but don’t forget if it’s a restaurant or pub the man should walk in FIRST to have a look 👀 and protect the woman from any danger!  

[DarkCh0c0]

5 minutes ago, mical said:

Yes but don’t forget if it’s a restaurant or pub the man should walk in FIRST to have a look 👀 and protect the woman from any danger!  

Same for dark basements lol He can go first 😂

[Rose Mosse]

5 hours ago, reinventmyself said:

I went on few dates with a guy.  After the first kiss goodnight, he whispered to me that we should practice the KISS principle.  I asked what this meant, and he replied "Keep It Simple".  (no doubt a silly line from sort of dating advise he had read)  I immediately balked.  What a thing to say!  I didn't say a word in the moment and left.  That comment served as a warning to not take him seriously.   I gladly took his advise, listened to my gut and didn't respond to his phone calls.  

He was actually one of my clients and I had to see him occasionally.  Fast fwd, I eventually did agree to date him a few more times and the tables swiftly turned and he ended being some sort of stalker.  He went from telling me to not him seriously, to me struggling to get him to now leave me alone.  I should have listened to that initial uneasy feeling

Sorry to hear that. He sounds creepy.

[electricorchid]

16 hours ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

Did he make plans for you to meet?

I agree with you. Definitely red flag. He's telling you he will make zero efforts right-off-the-bat. So believe him.

He did, but not thourough plans so he could be bull***ting. But this is EXACTLY what went through my mind bc I registered it as "zero efforts" for me. Super red flag

[DarkCh0c0]

So he told you he wants to meet you but didn't follow through?

Yea, totally cut contact. You ain't got time to waste!

[jul-els]

It’s not a dealbreaker unless it’s a dealbreaker for you. He’s being upfront and honest with you about how he is. If that’s something you’re ok with, then it’s ok. If it’s something you’re not ok with, which seems to be the case, then I wouldn’t consider him as a potential dating or relationship partner. 

[electricorchid]

6 hours ago, reinventmyself said:

Someone who's a professed dating coach makes it his goal to know all the tricks.  Whether valid or not, it would give me an uneasy feeling.

The whole "I don't plan" in this context smacks of him saying "don't count on me"  If he has expert advise he would be suggesting to pay attention to see if people are consistent.   He just told you he's not.

There's an old saying "A woman loves a man with a plan" For me it's true.

FACTS. For me it's the same... I've realized in him making that comment it's actually something I find attractive and yet I found in very unattractive when he said that, like extremely.