Help! I don't understand the concept of marriage!

[maritalbliss86]

22 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

But essentially the issue here is that the OP does not wish to marry, for reasons he has stated, and his GF apparently does.  This is the difficult area they both have to negotiate.

Yes, but there are things that make it more likely to go wrong... and this is one of them, which was what I was saying.

[maritalbliss86]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're better off not living together in any capacity.

Definitely agree with Wiseman.  It has more probability (mathematically with statistics) of going south than working out well.

[Reg]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You're better off not living together in any capacity.

What makes you say that?

I don't think that my relationship with her will definitely come to an end.

But is it not prudent to take such precautions towards these types of things? 

I appreciate your replies, cheers. 

[Tinydance]

Well some people just are really not into marriage that's true. One of my male friends I've known for nearly seven years is very against marriage. He's also polyamorous but that may not necessarily be the only reason he's against marriage. He thinks marriage is unappealing. I've now realised I haven't asked him why he thinks this lol 

[LaHermes]

7 minutes ago, Reg said:

I disagree that a marriage is the ''proper way'' to commit. I don't even know what that means really, surely all couples are different and there's no set route for any of them...?

 

I am with you here Reg.   There is no "proper way" and everyone is perfectly entitled to their way of conducting their life together.  And I say this even though I am married. It is highly judgmental to think less of persons who co-habit or who make arrangements other than marriage. 

Again, the basic issue you have is to work out with your fiancée what exactly you can do.

No one here has a crystal ball, Reg.  As a logical and pragmatic person all I can say is that yours is the difficult decision here: you don't wish to marry, and she (seemingly) does. 

Tiny: A surprising and increasing number of people cohabit.  I don't know if it is because they are particularly against marriage. It may just be a preference. 

 

[Wiseman2]

6 minutes ago, Reg said:

I know a mortgage is a giant commitment (more than a marriage IMO). 

Ok. Why not go buy your own place? Why drag someone else into it?

[Tinydance]

I'm personally very respectful of people who don't want to get married. I briefly dated my male friend I mentioned seven years ago and he told me he was polyamorous and against marriage. I said that's totally cool but probablem is I'm monogamous and I want marriage. So we ended up just being FWB and we didn't expect anything else from each other because we knew it wasn't going to work.

[LaHermes]

16 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

I'm personally very respectful of people who don't want to get married.

Same here Tiny.  And equally of those who do wish to get married. 

I can't even imagine myself preaching to cohabiting couples on the wonders of marriage and trying to box them into the idea that "marriage is the only way". 

I mean, can you imagine a cohabiting couple coming to me and saying: Hey you and himself ought to think of divorcing and then cohabiting.  

It is a question of respecting (yes, RESPECTING)  other people's opinions and ultimately their decisions in this area. 

For good measure:

The latest statistical bulletin, Households and Families, published by the Office for National Statistics (ONS), shows that cohabiting couple families in the UK have doubled from 1.5 million families in 1996 to 3.3 million families in 2016.

Gosh, all those awful, improper and immoral millions of people. Lol. 

[Reg]

16 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Ok. Why not go buy your own place? Why drag someone else into it?

Because we want to live together 🙂 

 

 

19 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Again, the basic issue you have is to work out with your fiancée what exactly you can do.

You're right. I don't think there's much more to be said until I talk about this with her. 

 

Thanks everyone 🙂 

[boltnrun]

@RegI see some posters referring to your partner as your fiancee. Have you in fact proposed marriage to her? If not, why is she referred to as your fiancee? This is confusing me lol.

It really doesn't matter what any of us think about marriage (as others have pointed out). It matters what you and your partner think. If you're dead set against it and she's dead set on getting married this relationship will not last. 

And unfortunately it is entirely possible she thinks you'll change your mind, just as you may think she'll change hers. All that does is waste years where the both of you could be with a more compatible partner.

I can tell you, I didn't want to get married. But the man I was in a relationship with gave me an ultimatum: marry him or lose him. So I married him. After 14 years and two kids we divorced (I filed). I don't regret being with him because I have my two beautiful children, but marriage was a bad idea for us.

[LaHermes]

Mea culpa, Bolt. That was me.  Sorry for confusing YOU. lol.

Academically speaking you are of course correct. 

I wasn't a marriage enthusiast either B. But he didn't give any ultimatums. So we kind of sailed into it and it is good.  Mind you it took me a while to stop thinking I was still single. lol.

 

 

[boltnrun]

6 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Mea culpa, Bolt. That was me.  Sorry for confusing YOU. lol.

Academically speaking you are of course correct. 

 

No worries. Thought I may have missed where OP said he'd proposed and then taken it back or something.

[Wiseman2]

18 minutes ago, Reg said:

I don't think there's much more to be said until I talk about this with her. 

Agree. Both of you need to be crystal clear on what you want. Including your antimarriage stance and her expectation of having a wedding.

There's no point even living together if you're just going to break up anyway. Now that is a lot better than prenups, cohabitation agreements etc. It's completely no risk.

Just skip to the best option which is find an antimarriage partner to buy a house with and she can find someone interested in marriage.

[itsallgrand]

Good luck with the conversation(s). I'm glad you are going to talk to her and try to hear out her point of view. It's so important to have all the information before jumping to any conclusions here. You mentioned she has been a bit wishy washy as far as clarifying her exact needs and wants regarding marriage or no, so maybe even she is not 100% sure yet about it, and is exploring different ideas and seeing how you'll respond. If you can give her space to articulate exactly what it is she needs, there is that chance that maybe you can meet them without a traditional marriage. For example, if it's standing up before family and friends and making vows, that is doable without "the piece of paper" if you are open to that? 

It may not shake out that way, but I wouldn't give up just yet. First you need to know, clearly, what her true wishes and needs are. 

I'm rooting for you. I hope you'll come back and share what she says. 

[LaHermes]

Great post IAG. 

7 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

I'm rooting for you. I hope you'll come back and share what she says. 

And so am I. 

8 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

First you need to know, clearly, what her true wishes and needs are. 

Exactly. 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

So you were offended in the name of a whole gender? Because I said lots of girls want a wedding and want to feel special? And you misinterpreted that as "All women want big wedding to please families because they saw on TV"?  Which is really not what I ever said as I clarified in previous post. Because, again, feeling special about the wedding, or even marriage in general is a lot of different things. That could be as small as having that special moment with special someone. And I trully fail to see how its offensive to women to say that they want to feel that special. But hey, you do you.

Nope not what offended me.  Reread my post if you like or you do you as well.  To me wanting the ceremony to be special -the marriage - has nothing to do with wanting a special party to celebrate the marriage.But I wrote that above. Typed words can be misinterpreted and  you wrote a lot of generalizations about girls so that likely increased the risk of my potentially misinterpreting.  Just like you've misinterpreted what I wrote.  We can agree to disagree.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

I'm personally very respectful of people who don't want to get married. I briefly dated my male friend I mentioned seven years ago and he told me he was polyamorous and against marriage. I said that's totally cool but probablem is I'm monogamous and I want marriage. So we ended up just being FWB and we didn't expect anything else from each other because we knew it wasn't going to work.

I don't feel I have to be any more "respectful" of that choice than any other lifestyle choice -if the choice is not hurting someone else intentionally it's absolutely none of my business.  I only ask for respect for my marital status when it's relevant to the situation, where the benefits of being married entitle me to certain information and certain privileges that someone unmarried might not be - then I want that "respect" where I don't have to feel less than for asking for the benefit.  Or respect if I tell someone who is flirting with me that I'm married, if I feel I need to emphasize that to get the behavior to stop.  

My friend's daughter got married religiously only as a teenager, not legally.  7 years and two kids later and one on the way they did it legally.  During that 7 years the grandmother chose not to send anniversary gifts because her granddaughter wasn't legally married and that was her boundary (just like I wasn't invited with a guest to certain events before I was married as the bride would only invite married or engaged people to bring a guest). 

I respect the grandmother's decision to draw the line at only sending wedding anniversary gifts to those who are legally married (and she was very nervous for her granddaughter not being legally married because she had no marketable skills and two babies -what if something happened to her partner?).  

I think we all should respect each other's choices when the situation requires it and I don't feel like I have to give any more respect to someone who chooses to commit to his or her partner without marriage than with.  I don't think any of my friends need me to tell them I respect their choice not to marry -it's  really none of my business and hopefully they feel secure within their choices without the need for outer approval.

It's also why I don't feel the need to defend "marriage" or as he put it "the concept of marriage" - I do feel some of the comments here disrespect the institution of marriage by focusing on the downsides of how much it costs (which is irrelevant, marriage is not the party), assuming that many women want to marry to have a party and be the center of attention, that it's just a legal contract ,etc. 

By contrast if I wrote that polyamorous arrangements are simply people who want be sexually promiscuous or that people who cohabit just want to have the milk without having to buy the cow, etc. that would be criticized.  "If" -I do not feel that way.  At all.   But since marriage is "traditional" it seems it's ok to dismiss it as just a piece of paper (which it is for certain people, like green card marriages but that is the exception).  

 

[greendots]

5 hours ago, Reg said:

This is the part that I just don't understand. If we're in a committed relationship, love and support each other, have a great time, provide and contribute to build a life together, and all of the other things that would be expected of a relationship - then why on Earth do we need to make that legally official? I don't see how that makes any difference whatsoever. 

What's the big deal about making your life-time relationship legally official if it doesn't make any difference to you whatsoever? It's basically what you claim to want, just in writing.

You're planning to get into a serious legal long-term binding contract with her, by purchasing a place together. But signing some legal marriage papers is too much?

What's really holding you back?

🙂

 

 

[Pleasedonot5]

I recognize there are different viewpoints on this... But if you're totally willing to sign a cohabitation agreement to mitigate the risks of splitting up during the course of the mortgage, why would you not consider a prenuptial agreement to mitigate the risks of splitting up during the course of a marriage? It just doesn't make sense to me why that has not crossed your mind. 

As people pointed out, cosigning a mortgage is legally binding in U.K. courts, just as a marriage would be. To try to downplay the magnitude of one of these two commitments would be to grasp at straws.

There is value in questioning societal customs. No, people do not have to marry just because everyone else does it. Marriage is not necessarily the final stage of a relationship. People do not have to have children, either (I do not want children). But, here, your perspective may result in the end of a fulfilling relationship, and thus immense loss. You should know that before deciding.

In other words, "being a libertarian" is fine and not wanting to marry is fine. Not wanting to marry while your partner wants to marry means she leaves you. If she wants to marry, speaking candidly, you will have to decide between her and being contrarian/libertarian.

--

Hope this helps. 

[LaHermes]

Er, the OP is against marriage (the institution), doesn't want to marry, he says.

However, it would appear he will/would sign a Cohabitation Agreement.

I could co-sign a mortgage tomorrow with one of my brothers. But it wouldn't mean I'd marry him or cohabit either.  The fact is that it is the bank that OWNS the property until the very last re-payment is made. You don't have to be married to enter into a mortgage with another person. 

 

 

[Tinydance]

Well people shouldn't have to do something they don't want though. I mean, I'm just guessing that for some people the feeling that they DON'T want kids and DON'T want marriage is as strong as my feelings that I do. In a sense, if they were to get married, it's being forced. It's not by their own choice. 

[LaHermes]

Just now, Tinydance said:

I'm just guessing that for some people the feeling that they DON'T want kids and DON'T want marriage is as strong as my feelings that I do. In a sense, if they were to get married, it's being forced. It's not by their own choice. 

Well said Tiny.

If you are a staunch anti-marriager then worst of all is marrying the other person to either appease them or for fear they will walk. 

[Batya33]

10 minutes ago, greendots said:

What's the big deal about making your life-time relationship legally official if it doesn't make any difference to you whatsoever? It's basically what you claim to want, just in writing.

You're planning to get into a serious legal long-term binding contract with her, by purchasing a place together. But signing some legal marriage papers is too much?

What's really holding you back?

🙂

 

 

I don't think it would be fair to her if he married thinking of it in this way unless she also considers it just a legal contract.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well people shouldn't have to do something they don't want though. I mean, I'm just guessing that for some people the feeling that they DON'T want kids and DON'T want marriage is as strong as my feelings that I do. In a sense, if they were to get married, it's being forced. It's not by their own choice. 

Of course!!  I think the standard for getting married or having children should be that the person is 100% enthusiastic about either decision. It would be by their own choice because you cannot legally marry where it's not your choice -so the marriage would be null (like if you were under duress or drunk, etc), but trying to convince, let alone force someone to marry or start a family is a horrendous notion.

[boltnrun]

Just now, Tinydance said:

Well people shouldn't have to do something they don't want though. I mean, I'm just guessing that for some people the feeling that they DON'T want kids and DON'T want marriage is as strong as my feelings that I do. In a sense, if they were to get married, it's being forced. It's not by their own choice. 

Yes. I felt very strongly that I didn't want to get married. Ever. But the man I was dating was equally adamant he DID want to be married (so much for the theory that only girls want to be married!). He gave me an ultimatum: marry me or lose me. I didn't want to lose him so I married him. Bad choice. We ended up divorced, partly because I had some resentment over being married when I didn't really want to be (unfair because I could have said No). It would have been better for us to split and find people who held the same opinions regarding marriage. I do have my beautiful children so I don't regret the marriage per se. I just regret how it all played out with the divorce and the pain we all went through.

Be your true self, is what I say.