How honest is your new date?

[Annia]

Did Derek ever had a job? It seems that he was 100% living off these women for years!

 

This Cindy woman who initiated this hunt for Derek and to expose him is my hero. She helped countless women.

[katrina1980]

Agree about Debra, and probably the women Derek scammed too, which is my point.

 

JMO but probably not the smartest idea to be posting pics of yourself wearing expensive clothes, your expensive car, exotic trips etc.

 

That does not mean pretending you're poor but downplay your wealth a bit, at least until after you meet, click and get to know each other.

 

If Debra and the others had done that, this crap may not have happened cause cons like John and Derek would not have targeted them in the first place.

 

I dunno, we live in such a superficial society where wealth and having "things" are considered important and relevant, so perhaps they feel they should post about it, to look attractive.

 

When they're not important, or shouldn't be, at least not imo.

[Starlight925]

Re: the income box on the profiles. Nearly everyone these days leaves it blank.

 

These men don't even view the profiles. They do exactly what John Meehan did: they send massive amounts of emails to every single woman in their age range, and they wait for responses.

 

They don't take the time to look at any info, other than.....is she on here? Check. Email. Wait for her response. Done.

 

When Debra looked at John's computer after his death, there were hundreds of women with whom he was communicating.

 

Because it doesn't matter to these men if you're a millionaire, or making $30,000 a year. They just want what you have.

 

One of the women that Derek Alldred roped in was a schoolteacher, who made very little, but happened to have a 401K with her school system of $325,000. That's not a lot of money, if that's her retirement, which it was. Derek Alldred stole her ID's and finances, and took that entire amount. But prior to meeting her, he had no idea that amount existed.

[Seraphim]

I am so glad I met my match before all this online shyte.

[katrina1980]

Re: the income box on the profiles. Nearly everyone these days leaves it blank.

 

These men don't even view the profiles. They do exactly what John Meehan did: they send massive amounts of emails to every single woman in their age range, and they wait for responses.

 

They don't take the time to look at any info, other than.....is she on here? Check. Email. Wait for her response. Done.

 

When Debra looked at John's computer after his death, there were hundreds of women with whom he was communicating.

 

Because it doesn't matter to these men if you're a millionaire, or making $30,000 a year. They just want what you have.

 

One of the women that Derek Alldred roped in was a schoolteacher, who made very little, but happened to have a 401K with her school system of $325,000. That's not a lot of money, if that's her retirement, which it was. Derek Alldred stole her ID's and finances, and took that entire amount. But prior to meeting her, he had no idea that amount existed.

 

Ok thanks for explaining LG, this sounds plausible.

 

Scary shyt!

[Annia]

Re: the income box on the profiles. Nearly everyone these days leaves it blank.

 

These men don't even view the profiles. They do exactly what John Meehan did: they send massive amounts of emails to every single woman in their age range, and they wait for responses.

 

They don't take the time to look at any info, other than.....is she on here? Check. Email. Wait for her response. Done.

 

When Debra looked at John's computer after his death, there were hundreds of women with whom he was communicating.

 

Because it doesn't matter to these men if you're a millionaire, or making $30,000 a year. They just want what you have.

 

One of the women that Derek Alldred roped in was a schoolteacher, who made very little, but happened to have a 401K with her school system of $325,000. That's not a lot of money, if that's her retirement, which it was. Derek Alldred stole her ID's and finances, and took that entire amount. But prior to meeting her, he had no idea that amount existed.

 

You have a point. They need to throw in the trap and see who's biting. But I think they probably read the profiles before they go on the date just so that they can mold themselves to these women and be their perfect fantasy men. They probably even do a whole internet search of them before the date.

Something that scares me about these men is that is as if they don't have an identity of their own. They're building one that fits their victims' desires and they adapt as they go along.

 

Sometimes I wonder if a woman shows herself to be strong and tell them "hey buddy, too much too soon, we have to get to know each other better before you live with me or we marry. I need to meet your friends and family. And no, you can't have access to my accounts (though Derek did so through hacking)" if these men simply go away to the next victim who's easier to manipulate or if they see this as a challenge and will keep trying any way.

 

I think that the "they want what you have" explains a lot. And I think that we "non sociopathic" people can't really ever understand why they do this.

 

My abusive ex who made that university scheme, he was extremely intelligent (he had to be to pull of such intricate web of lies for so long) and he didn't need to have done what he's done. He could've actually used his intelligence to something honest and profitable. Yet he chose to create this fake persona who was attending college, he scammed people into giving him money and he abused women. When he was arrested he was living in this wonderful place and I think he had a girlfriend at that time. It's as if they have to do these things despite having the opportunity to be honest and successful.

 

This is crazy but:

 

I've never told this, but years later after we had broken up and I was moving on with my life, I get a letter from the police. Why you ask. Because he had used my internet provider to contact and blackmail girls, some of them minors. I felt sick to my stomach. The police knew it was him and had been trying to build a case against him for years but he always got away. So I confirmed to them that yes, he had used my internet during that period of time (when we are together, though of course I didn't remember everything precisely). Justice runs very slow in here, and some more years late I get a letter from court to testify in front of the judge that he had used my internet during this period of time while we were dating. While I wait in a waiting room to get in court there's the victim crying and nervous, so much that she had to ask them that he's not present while she testifies. The mother of the girl was crying and enraged. At last minute I'm told he's plead guilty and so I don't have to testify. I felt relieved because I was shaking with the nerves of having to see him again, even if in court, though I wanted to help as much as possible.

 

As I leave I look through the crack of the courtroom and see him before they close the door. I was feeling sick.

 

I know it wasn't my fault, but I felt awful and an idiot for having facilitated or at least not finding out the awful things he was doing to other people while still with me. And I felt ashamed and so sorry while I talked with the mother of the girl.

 

I don't know exactly what was the sentencing of this, but I know that years later he was sentenced to some years in prison but I think he got away earlier.

 

While he was in prison, a mutual accquatance tells me he's written a letter asking for forgiveness from several people, like a "tell all, I'm going to be honest now" and he tells me he mentioned me on this letter and if I wanted to read. I shouldn't have since it had been years and I had deleted and blocked him and all his fake accounts that tried to add me. But my curiosity was stronger. Even in this letter he lied and lied and lied about me and what he'd done to me. And his letter was full of excuses to what he's done and how his father was the reason he hurt people and how the girls he hurt triggered his abuse by not loving him properly and a bunch of other disgusting things that I couldn't even finish reading.

 

All of this to say that they feel entitled. They're not sorry, they don't feel empathy or care about the consequences of their actions on others. Which is why you can't ever "win" with a sociopathic person. I think that the only thing they might feel is anger when they're caught. But besides that, they simply don't care. It's all about them and their well being.

[Starlight925]

You have a point. They need to throw in the trap and see who's biting. But I think they probably read the profiles before they go on the date just so that they can mold themselves to these women and be their perfect fantasy men. They probably even do a whole internet search of them before the date.

Something that scares me about these men is that is as if they don't have an identity of their own. They're building one that fits their victims' desires and they adapt as they go along.

 

This is so true. Once they get a woman who writes back, then their fun begins. That's when they dig into her profile to find out her likes, dislikes, etc., plus as you said, internet searching to find out all they can, so they can mold themselves into her "perfect" man.

 

H.G. Tudor is a professionally diagnosed Narcissistic sociopath (by both a psychologist and a psychiatrist), who writes and does audio-only youtube videos, describing his methods to ensnare women. It's fascinating.

 

It's exactly as these men do: H.G. says the internet, particularly Facebook, is invaluable as a tool to find out as much as he can before he ensnares his "prey". He "coincidentally" will drop in several references to things he already knows she likes, thus creating the illusion for her that she's found her soulmate in him. How could someone be so handsome, so into me, so wonderful, and we have so much in common?

 

Here's an interview with him:

 

Start at around 14:30 for exactly what you are referencing Annia.....the sociopath himself, talking about how he finds out about his prey beforehand!

 

Note: We are not necessarily talking about only Narcissists here, but all manner of sociopaths and their methods to reign in these women. H.G. Tudor has reigned in hundreds, if not thousands, in his lifetime.

[katrina1980]

LHG, thank you for posting this!^

 

Some posters have wondered, even questioned, why I don't give my full last name to men on line (I just give my partial last name, and my private email is also my partial last name), and why I also don't wish to give my phone number, or where I work, prior to meeting in person.

 

Some posters have said they won't even meet a man until they talk on phone first which obviously entails giving him your phone number.

 

I'm not interested in that, messaging through email is as far as I go, prior to meeting. I'm not on FB anymore either.

 

Anyone can discover anything about someone with nothing but a full name and phone number, and what you posted about checking my backround, finding out things about me and my family, prior to even meeting me, I find utterly repugnant!

 

I'm not hiding anything, it's just creepy!

 

Some folks (not on this forum) have deemed me too cautious, paranoid, whatever, do not care!!

 

I wait to give that info until we meet in person, we click, we begin dating.

 

Anything they want to know about me, they can ask me in person. It goes both ways, anything I want to know, I can ask them.

 

And even then, it's still a risk.

 

Be smart, be safe!

[Annia]

LHG, thank you for posting this!^

 

Some posters have wondered, even questioned, why I don't give my full last name to men on line (I just give my partial last name, and my private email is also my partial last name), and why I also don't wish to give my phone number, or where I work, prior to meeting in person.

 

Some posters have said they won't even meet a man until they talk on phone first which obviously entails giving him your phone number.

 

I'm not interested in that, messaging through email is as far as I go, prior to meeting. I'm not on FB anymore either.

 

Anyone can discover anything about someone with nothing but a full name and phone number, and what you posted about checking my backround, finding out things about me and my family, prior to even meeting me, I find utterly repugnant!

 

I'm not hiding anything, it's just creepy!

 

Some folks (not on this forum) have deemed me too cautious, paranoid, whatever, do not care!!

 

I wait to give that info until we meet in person, we click, we begin dating.

 

Anything they want to know about me, they can ask me in person. It goes both ways, anything I want to know, I can ask them.

 

And even then, it's still a risk.

 

Be smart, be safe!

 

I wasn't always this cautious but nowadays I don't give online dates my full name (on dating apps they can only see my first name) and we'll message on the dating app to arrange the date. Something ridiculous here is that if you don't specify, your cellphone provider will have your fullname, cellphone and address online. Imagine my horror when I found out. Though everyone here thinks this is perfectly fine and dandy. So I had to ask them to take this out and it still took months to remove this information.

 

I know I might seem shady to some, but I also don't demand it from my dates previous to meeting them. After the first meet and if it goes well and I want to meet them again then I might provide my cellphone number. I'm very careful though with giving my address at first (I might say the area, but not the address)

[katrina1980]

Some men have gotten very mad, well not "very" mad, but frustrated telling me I can trust them, and they just want to get to know me. "Connect" with me. They tell me this!

 

Yeah sure, they want to search me, I'm not that naive. Lol

 

Any man who gets frustrated cause I don't want to give my phone number or where I work or other personal info, before meeting gets blocked. I don't ask that of them either.

 

That might seem harsh to some but it gives me a bad vibe.

 

Most men won't push it though, in fact most understand and with all the crap out there, they've actually said they understand.

 

Truth be told, I really don't like on line dating, for that reason, among others.

 

I prefer meeting men IRL spontaneously and naturally.

[Annia]

Some men have gotten very mad, well not "very" mad, but frustrated telling me I can trust them, and they just want to get to know me. "Connect" with me. They tell me this!

 

Yeah sure, they want to search me, I'm not that naive. Lol

 

Any man who gets frustrated cause I don't want to give my phone number or where I work or other personal info, before meeting gets blocked. I don't ask that of them either.

 

That might seem harsh to some but it gives me a bad vibe.

 

Most men won't push it though, in fact most understand and with all the crap out there, they've actually said they understand.

 

Truth be told, I really don't like on line dating, for that reason, among others.

 

I prefer meeting men IRL spontaneously and naturally.

 

I think I've never had men who were mad that I didn't give them my number before meeting or anything but I've had men who became almost aggressive during the date because I didn't want to go to their place. That to me is such a turnoff that they don't hear from me again.

[Annia]

I'm listening to that interview with the narcissist that LHGirl recommended. Bye faith in humanity lol

 

Am I the only one that thinks he's playing the interviewer? lol

[tattoobunnie]

Dirty John was so good, even my hubby was into it!

 

I find that when people go on and on about your looks on the 1st date, they are trying to manipulate a situation, same with expressing love very early on.

 

Well, this is why you should never marry complete strangers right away, especially without ever meeting any of their friends or family, coworkers, etc.

 

My MIL has acted like this; lying every which way to Sunday to manipulate, then gets violent and stalkery.

[Annia]

Dirty John was so good, even my hubby was into it!

 

I find that when people go on and on about your looks on the 1st date, they are trying to manipulate a situation, same with expressing love very early on.

 

Well, this is why you should never marry complete strangers right away, especially without ever meeting any of their friends or family, coworkers, etc.

 

My MIL has acted like this; lying every which way to Sunday to manipulate, then gets violent and stalkery.

 

This is very important. One of the traits I've noticed on these types of sociopaths is that they rarely have friends or family around or at least available to meet you. Of course that non sociopathic people can have a very low numbers on friends or be estranged from family, but I usually find it weird when someone doesn't have connections nor can introduce you to those connections. They're usually estranged from friends and family because they leave a trail of destruction no matter where they go.

 

My ex I've talked about had a some friends, but when I met them, it was always on a "controlled environment", same with his family. For example, when I met his bandmates, I couldn't meet one of them (a girl), because according to him she was a psycho and was his ex girlfriend and she couldn't know we were together or she'd snap (this is a classic... all narcs have one or several psycho exes trying to make their lives miserable). One day I just ignored him and said hi to her and he snapped. Also one day she sent me a message on social media and he was very nervous begging me not to engage in conversation with her, trying to convince me she was a psycho that would hurt me. When I briefly met his parents, he educated me on what subjects and things I couldn't tell his parents. Besides this, I could never meet anyone in his life for some reason. There was always an excuse. As I found out later it was because he wasn't actually in university and it was all a lie. These colleagues didn't exist, only fake profiles on social media.

 

So I'd say before getting further with someone, it's important to have a general idea of their network of friends and get to know some of these people. If someone is hiding us from friends or family for an extended period of time, they're either hiding something or they're simply not serious about us.

[Starlight925]

I'm listening to that interview with the narcissist that LHGirl recommended. Bye faith in humanity lol

 

Am I the only one that thinks he's playing the interviewer? lol

 

When you listen to more of HG Tudor's interviews, and you read his blogs, you realize that he is not playing the interviewer. He's truly a clinically diagnosed sociopath. He goes into a lot more depth, but the basics are all there in that one interview.

 

He's just that full of himself, lol.

 

And yeah, it makes me scared to leave the house to even meet anyone for coffee, lol.

[Jibralta]

I started listening to that interview, too. It was very interesting. I've definitely had at least one brush with someone like that in my life. Fortunately, I got away very early on, and I intuitively knew that I had to back out slowly.

 

I started searching online for interviews with the real people who were harmed by John Meehan. It's really appalling how much hate and vitriol is directed towards Debra. Yes, she was self-centered and irresponsible. But JOHN was the a scamming, murderous sociopath. He was a sadistic predator who sniffed out and exploited any weakness he could find. Debra was an upstanding member of society who had a few vulnerabilities and made some mistakes.

 

I hope that one day, society stops holding women (and victims in general) accountable for the actions of criminals.

[Annia]

I think that we tend to overdiagnose people who are simply jerks as narcissists and sociopaths, but I think that most of us have met people with narcissistic traits.

 

I don't think people hate on Debra for having been a victim, but more for not taking responsibility on her part in it. The women scammed on "seduced by evil" (by another sociopath scammer who's now serving 24 years in prison without parole for what he's done) have another stance in which they seem to take responsibility and to have learned with what has happened.

 

I haven't watched real life interviews from Debra yet, just the show and articles online. Many people are saying she doesn't take responsibility and simply says "he was so charming and ticked all the boxes, it was out of my control". I also see many of the "vitriol" directed at the fact that she chose this man over her daughters and knew he could be a danger to them and still chose to continue with him. But of course it's also because he manipulated her. Now, of course it's not her fault that John was a sociopath who tried to ruin her life and her children, but I'd like to know if she learned something from this and I really hope she did.

[figureitout23]

I think that we tend to overdiagnose people who are simply jerks as narcissists and sociopaths, but I think that most of us have met people with narcissistic traits.

 

I don't think people hate on Debra for having been a victim, but more for not taking responsibility on her part in it. The women scammed on "seduced by evil" (by another sociopath scammer who's now serving 24 years in prison without parole for what he's done) have another stance in which they seem to take responsibility and to have learned with what has happened.

 

I haven't watched real life interviews from Debra yet, just the show and articles online. Many people are saying she doesn't take responsibility and simply says "he was so charming and ticked all the boxes, it was out of my control". I also see many of the "vitriol" directed at the fact that she chose this man over her daughters and knew he could be a danger to them and still chose to continue with him. But of course it's also because he manipulated her. Now, of course it's not her fault that John was a sociopath who tried to ruin her life and her children, but I'd like to know if she learned something from this and I really hope she did.

 

Exactly Annia, this is far from woman hate...well I can only speak for myself...women need to start holding themselves accountable though, so many practically sell their souls to simply have a man...

 

He is a monster, no question, why willingly hand over your life to a monster?

 

I guess it goes back to my point about mental health as well as self esteem, genuine self esteem, again havent watched yet but she presented herself as an upstanding well put together individual, I think its safe to say that wasn't the truth at all, she was obviously a woman with incredibly weak boundaries, unhealthy ideas of love and was desperate to have a man that 'check off her list'. But no one was the wiser because we believe whats presented.

 

Im currently watching Dateline about the murder of Rhoni Reuter. She was ONE of the girlfriends of Shawn Gayle, a successful ex pro football player, he openly told these women they were one of many, didnt hide it and he still had MULTIPLE girlfriends, I think they only mention one girlfriend who walked away because she didnt know. The woman murdered was 6 months pregnant and had dated him for I think 14 years, while knowing he was a cheat, when asked she said "theres just something about him" she was murdered y one of Shawn Gayles other girlfriends, so this woman lost her life, an unborn child lost her life the killer lost her life and she was the single mother of 3 children so their lives were ruined all because a man couldn't remain faithful? Yes absolutely, 100%, but another part that people dont want to acknowledge because I guess its taboo to say but WHY DID THESE WOMEN ACCEPT A CHEATER TO BEGIN WITH?!?!? Her family knew and accepted it, men are not only allowed to act in this manner but are encouraged by having women chase after them more...

 

I bet theres a ton of research done about womens attraction to 'bad boys' Im starting to be more and more fascinated by it.

 

This is not a one sided problem.

 

Supply and demand.

[itsallgrand]

Hmm yeah, I got sucked in and read some from the real Debra. Even after all of what her children went through, she says things in print like "how was I to know he'd go after my daughter?". "My daughters didn't like anyone, so when they didn't like him, I thought here we go again, they'll get used to him."

 

She's the kind of lady who a lot of people wouldn't like, but is getting attention because of her involvement with this terrible man.

I don't think anyone thinks she is responsible for his crimes at all.

It's more like you can tell people around her (especially her kids) have suffered due to her total lack of responsibility and her self centeredness.

She's the kind who neglects her kids and puts them through hell, but still gets to raise them ( mostly because of societies' positive bias towards mothers). She's the kind that will always be the perpetual victim in her own eyes.

[itsallgrand]

FIO, that brought to mind an old coworker of mine. Her daughter had 7 kids, last I was working with her mother. Several dads, all were in jail. She was getting married to one man who will be in jail for life for multiple murders and other crimes. She was pregnant at that time again, with this mans second child by her.

And she still had those kids!

 

It's so messed up on so many levels.

[Annia]

Hmm yeah, I got sucked in and read some from the real Debra. Even after all of what her children went through, she says things in print like "how was I to know he'd go after my daughter?". "My daughters didn't like anyone, so when they didn't like him, I thought here we go again, they'll get used to him."

 

She's the kind of lady who a lot of people wouldn't like, but is getting attention because of her involvement with this terrible man.

I don't think anyone thinks she is responsible for his crimes at all.

It's more like you can tell people around her (especially her kids) have suffered due to her total lack of responsibility and her self centeredness.

She's the kind who neglects her kids and puts them through hell, but still gets to raise them ( mostly because of societies' positive bias towards mothers). She's the kind that will always be the perpetual victim in her own eyes.

 

I agree. It's not her fault but to say she didn't know this man could go after her daughters... She had documented proof he was a criminal who had abused and scammed several women and she still chose to stay with him and by that she put her daughters lives in danger (and her own). He had previously been verbally aggressive to her daughter and she still kept with him. He had previously said a disgusting thing to her nephew about his father having shot his mother and she still didn't care. It'd be better if she admitted "oh, maybe I shouldn't have married an unknown man 4 weeks after meeting him and maybe I shouldn't have brought it to my family barely knowing him. And maybe, I shouldn't have continued with him and still trying to shoving him down my daughters' throats after having documented proof of him being a con man woman abuser " and then maybe had an introspection moment about what led her to this.

 

The fact that she continues to act clueless like "how could I know? He was so charming and ticked all the boxes" it's what's preventing her from learning and truly make a positive impact on other victims from revealing her story. Revealing her story should be more than victimising herself and show how helpless she was to knowing what was going on, but more on showing other people in the same situation what not to do and what red flags and signs to look after and also develop boundaries and understand what leads them to the arms of these types of people.

[Annia]

I've read on an article that the detox scenes on the hotel room never happened in real life. Does anyone who heard the podcasts or documentary know?

[Jibralta]

I don't think people hate on Debra for having been a victim, but more for not taking responsibility on her part in it. The women scammed on "seduced by evil" (by another sociopath scammer who's now serving 24 years in prison without parole for what he's done) have another stance in which they seem to take responsibility and to have learned with what has happened.

 

I haven't watched real life interviews from Debra yet, just the show and articles online. Many people are saying she doesn't take responsibility and simply says "he was so charming and ticked all the boxes, it was out of my control". I also see many of the "vitriol" directed at the fact that she chose this man over her daughters and knew he could be a danger to them and still chose to continue with him. But of course it's also because he manipulated her. Now, of course it's not her fault that John was a sociopath who tried to ruin her life and her children, but I'd like to know if she learned something from this and I really hope she did.

 

I understand why people are reacting, and I also agree that she handled it very poorly. However, it's possible to disapprove without being hateful. Being nasty to other people is not helpful to anyone, including the haters.

 

Another thing, Debra's daughter--the one who ended up stabbing John in the eye--has the same sunny disposition that she has. Just look at them both in this interview clip.

 

https://www.eonline.com/news/989152/meet-the-real-people-at-the-center-of-dirty-john

 

What people interpret as flippancy could just be a light-hearted disposition.

[Annia]

I understand why people are reacting, and I also agree that she handled it very poorly. However, it's possible to disapprove without being hateful. Being nasty to other people is not helpful to anyone, including the haters.

 

Another thing, Debra's daughter--the one who ended up stabbing John in the eye--has the same sunny disposition that she has. Just look at them both in this interview clip.

 

https://www.eonline.com/news/989152/meet-the-real-people-at-the-center-of-dirty-john

 

What people interpret as flippancy could just be a light-hearted disposition.

 

I agree with you on that and I don't condone attacking and insulting her, specially after such traumatic events. However, I hope that she has learned from the situation and that her case helped other people. Even the discussions about her role in the whole situation and her actions I think are helpful to prevent future cases like this.