How honest is your new date?

[Jibralta]

Jibralta, did you watch the series, or the documentary? Do you know anything about him and or his and Debra's relationship? Just curious.

 

He did far more than "make excuses " he spent his life since a teenager, stealing, lying, scheming, conning, averting the law, using people, heck he attempted to murder Debra's daughter.

 

And he would have had she not turned the tables and killed him, in self defense.

 

He was a full blown psychopath.

 

My point is that's what psychopaths do -- they never take responsibility, they blame everyone else, nothing is their fault. They literally have no conscience. And are extremely dangerous..

 

My question is -- what was Debra's excuse for not owning her role in what happened to her? Why did she choose this psychopath over her own family, criticizing them for not supporting it, accusing them of not wanting her to be happy?

 

Even after discovering he was a convicted felon, had conned several women in his past, lied about being a doctor, lied about being a "war hero" lied about essentially everything about himself, the list goes on.

 

This is what I don't understand, that's all. According to her, it was all his fault. For being so "charming" and such a "good manipulator." I dunno, is she a sociopath? I wonder.

 

I find her self-entitled and feel badly for her daughters, especially the one who was almost murdered by him.

 

She couldn't even show her face on camera, she is in therapy for PTSD among other disorders due to this experience.

 

Why?

 

Because her mother chose a psychopath instead of the well-being of her own fsmily, and to this day refuses to take any responsibility for that.

 

I don't understand what you are arguing about. Certainly nothing that I have said.

[Jibralta]

I personally think Debra was a bit psycho herself.

What woman keeps going back and looking the other way even after she finds out the man she is with is a druggie, a liar, a manipulator, abuser, a scammer, etc, etc.

 

Anyone with common sense would be running out the door. Debra has some serious mental issues, there is no denying that.

 

Agreed. She definitely has problems. It's interesting how when she's "on" John, anyone who says something negative is her enemy. She stopped seeing them that way (temporarily) when she was confronted with his past. But when she got back on the John wagon, her original denial-mindset returned.

[katrina1980]

I don't understand what you are arguing about. Certainly nothing that I have said.

 

Not arguing J, you asked what I was getting at, in response to my post about Debra.

 

So I answered your question and explained it.

[Jibralta]

Not arguing J, you asked what I was getting at, in response to my post about Debra.

 

So I answered your question and explained it.

 

Then you missed the point. I wasn't talking about the REASONS they did what they did, like "John did it because he was a psychopath. That was his excuse for acting with complete disregard. Debra was self-interested and had a dysfunctional family. That's her excuse for going back over and over again."

 

I was saying that each blamed others for their own behavior.

 

Regarding the daughter who killed him: there is actually an interview where her daughter does show her face. It's relatively new and I saw a snippet of it yesterday or this morning.

[katrina1980]

 

Regarding the daughter who killed him: there is actually an interview where her daughter does show her face. It's relatively new and I saw a snippet of it yesterday or this morning.

 

I'm happy to hear that.

 

She did not during the documentary I watched.

 

Her face was blacked out.

[itsallgrand]

I don't know that I could watch this without getting upset. This thread is interesting though!

 

What happened to the daughter? We're Debra's daughters young and living at home when she got with this guy?

 

I don't like Debbie already from what's been written in this thread. She obviously wasn't emotionally nor mentally stable enough to raise children. Why were the kids subjected to that?!

[katrina1980]

I apologize guys I posted something that was incorrect.

 

Terra (the daughter who killed Dirty John) is in the public eye and not afraid to show her face.

 

It was the other daughter, Jacquelyn (changed to Ronnie/Veronica in the series) who does not wish to be seen in public eye and had her face blacked out in the documentary.

 

Terra wants to speak out and tell her story, strong girl!

[katrina1980]

I don't know that I could watch this without getting upset. This thread is interesting though!

 

What happened to the daughter? We're Debra's daughters young and living at home when she got with this guy?

 

I don't like Debbie already from what's been written in this thread. She obviously wasn't emotionally nor mentally stable enough to raise children. Why were the kids subjected to that?!

 

No they were adults, out on their own, had good jobs.

 

One (Ronnie) got fired after John began posting negative reviews of her from random people on her employer's website. Prior to that, she received praise from her employer.

 

Debra knew all about it but still continued on with him!

[Annia]

If anyone was shocked and felt like shaking the character who portrayed Debra on the series, last night I watched "Dirty John: The Dirty Truth" on Oxygen network.

 

A documentary that went into much more depth and detail about John, his past, his marriage to Tonya years ago, as well as all the many women (and people) he's conned, scammed and hurt in the past.

 

Labeling him a sociopath is an understatement, and was glad to hear law enforcement finally calling him what he was, the guy was a bona fide psychopath! No question!

 

There was also an in depth interview with the real Debra. I almost turned it off, I could not believe what I was hearing!

 

She just about admitted she pushed her own daughters aside for this psycho. In fact, she criticized her daughters for not accepting him and not allowing her to just be happy!

 

Even after all the crap she discovered about him!

 

Her excuse was "she always tries to see the good in everyone." Arghh.

 

Never once owned her role, put it all on John. How charming he was, how successful, good looking, a doctor, blah blah, he ticked all her boxes, she just could not resist!

 

And of course how "good" he was at manipulating her. She portrayed herself as the quintessential "victim."

 

I felt nauseated watching it and as I said nearly turned it off. But I didn't, I watched the entire thing, and then went on to watch Seduced by Evil, about another sad excuse for a man who conned and scammed women for their money.

 

This one was better, the women owned their stupidity trusting him -- they eventually all found each other and were instrumental in getting him convicted and sent to prison for 24 years - no parole!

 

My takeaway from this? No more on line dating for me!! Lol

 

I haven't watched the documentary but now I'm curious! LHgirl said Debra got lots of hate after the podcast because she never for once took responsibility for her actions. And the fact that she chose this man instead of her daughters and wanted to force him in her daughters' lives barely knowing and and AFTER she got documented proof of his criminal past and still doesn't admit that she had a big role in letting this psychopath in their lives... I just can't.

 

Imagine if he had killed one of the daughters or if he had killed Debra herself and gotten all her money because this fool didn't do a prenup nor a will before marrying a literally unknown man from whom she didn't even know any friends or family. Yes, he's a charming psychopath full of scamming skills, but a woman in her right mind wouldn't have married a man after a month of knowing him and specially without prenup. A woman in her right mind with daughters wouldn't have continued with a man she had documented proof was a woman abuser and an ex con. That part wasn't about his manipulative skills or his charm... this was about her neediness, her not wanting a 5th failed marriage and wanting to keep the appearances to prove everyone wrong and all her issues that she needs to take care in order to prevent more situations like this in the future. Not saying she wasn't a victim of an awful man, which she was, had she admitted her fault in all this instead of seeing herself as a passive victim, or had she been fooled and manipulated without all this mess of marrying the guy and ignoring documented proof she'd have much more sympathy.

 

By what you're saying it seems like Debra has learned nothing from this experience.

 

I'm now watching "Seduced by Evil". Some of these women had done background searches about the guy before accepting to date him but apparently he was using fake names and fake information so they didn't find anything. He scammed over 25 women across the US. My question is, how can you issue credit in someone's name without a person knowing? I've never had a credit card nor understand how this works, but apparently he stole their social security number and created credit cards in their names so they'd be paying for his lifestyle without knowing. How is this logistically possible? Doesn't a person get a warning that a new credit card or something was created? Doesn't a person need to sign documents?

[Seraphim]

I don't know that I could watch this without getting upset. This thread is interesting though!

 

What happened to the daughter? We're Debra's daughters young and living at home when she got with this guy?

 

I don't like Debbie already from what's been written in this thread. She obviously wasn't emotionally nor mentally stable enough to raise children. Why were the kids subjected to that?!

My dad should never have had kids and my mom made mistakes which she admitted in her late 60’s. She admitted in trying to save my dad she threw us under the bus. But she didn’t see it at the time. She thought that she was keeping a family together. And my dad is throughly insane. A lot of mood and personality disorders in his family and his brother is a sociopath .

 

I used to blame my mother because she was the sane one . But now that’s kind of pointless . What Happened is what happened and we built our relationship back up after I had a lot of counselling and relayed to her why I was so enraged and she honestly understood what her mistakes were and apologized.

 

I will still have lifelong PTSD though .

[itsallgrand]

No they were adults, out on their own, had good jobs.

 

One (Ronnie) got fired after John began posting negative reviews of her from random people on her employer's website. Prior to that, she received praise from her employer.

 

Debra knew all about it but still continued on with him!

 

Thanks Kat.

 

Wow.

[katrina1980]

Annia, I watched the documentary Seduced By Evil last night, after the Dirty John doc.

 

And yes many of those women did background searches and were cautious but still owned their roles in what happened to them.

 

I really admire them for that!

 

Together they brought him down and he is now in prison for 24 years!

[Annia]

I don't know that I could watch this without getting upset. This thread is interesting though!

 

What happened to the daughter? We're Debra's daughters young and living at home when she got with this guy?

 

I don't like Debbie already from what's been written in this thread. She obviously wasn't emotionally nor mentally stable enough to raise children. Why were the kids subjected to that?!

 

SPOILERS

 

He tried to kidnap one of the daughters and made the other daughter be fired from work and basically made her life hell.

 

I think both daughters weren't minors when this happened, but at the time she had his first date (she let him come inside her house and pick her up on the first date!), she was living with the oldest daughter. She was rich and helped support her daughters. Her oldest daughter felt there was something wrong with him right from the moment he went to their home to get the mother on the first date. I'm also surprised she'd risk her and her daughter's safety by letting an unknown man from online dating come pick her up inside her home on her first date. It was the older daughter who investigated the situation and hired a professional detective to investigate the guy and when she presented all the evidence that he was a con man, abused and stalked several women in the past and other awful things, she dismissed it and believed that was just someone with the same name. She even got letters from prison to him in their home, but she believed his BS about it. In the first weeks of dating and marrying him (she married him a month after meeting him), she brought him for Christmas at her mother's house. So basically she was giving this man she barely knew access to all her family.

 

After the daughter and the private detective found out all this about him and she didn't leave him, her son forbid her and Dirty John from getting close to his children and most of her family cut her off.

 

A big ol' mess.

[Annia]

Annia, I watched the documentary Seduced By Evil last night, after the Dirty John doc.

 

And yes many of those women did background searches and were cautious but still owned their roles in what happened to them.

 

I really admire them for that!

 

Together they brought him down and he is now in prison for 24 years!

 

I'm still watching the documentary but watched on a youtube video that he got 24 years thanks to these women getting together to bring him down and a detective who helped them.

 

I'm also liking how they admit their role in it and take responsibility.

 

I'm glad justice got served!

[Annia]

My dad should never have had kids and my mom made mistakes which she admitted in her late 60’s. She admitted in trying to save my dad she threw us under the bus. But she didn’t see it at the time. She thought that she was keeping a family together. And my dad is throughly insane. A lot of mood and personality disorders in his family and his brother is a sociopath .

 

I used to blame my mother because she was the sane one . But now that’s kind of pointless . What Happened is what happened and we built our relationship back up after I had a lot of counselling and relayed to her why I was so enraged and she honestly understood what her mistakes were and apologized.

 

I will still have lifelong PTSD though .

 

I know I don't know you in person, but you have no idea how much I admire you and your strength.

[itsallgrand]

My dad should never have had kids and my mom made mistakes which she admitted in her late 60’s. She admitted in trying to save my dad she threw us under the bus. But she didn’t see it at the time. She thought that she was keeping a family together. And my dad is throughly insane. A lot of mood and personality disorders in his family and his brother is a sociopath .

 

I used to blame my mother because she was the sane one . But now that’s kind of pointless . What Happened is what happened and we built our relationship back up after I had a lot of counselling and relayed to her why I was so enraged and she honestly understood what her mistakes were and apologized.

 

I will still have lifelong PTSD though .

 

Thanks for posting that. Really, it's so terrible, and your candour is so refreshing to me.

 

You hit on something for me. What happened is what happened- and that's a level of acceptance in the journey of healing after being subjected to various levels of abuse and neglect. Your mom isn't an all evil person - yet she still did her part in causing tremendous hurt to her children. It's similar to my own experience coming to terms with my moms alcoholism and poor ( and lack) of coping techniques ( a lot of that due to not healing nor receiving resources for her own serious traumas).

End of the day though, hurt is hurt and even if you had choice in choosing it, a lot of times parents pass on their pains to their kids.

 

What FIO said about greater awareness about mental health - yes yes yes. I believe that would help prevent so much of this at the root. And you know, a better understanding and early treatments for trauma.

 

I think that along with less leniency in allowing those who commit crimes, and we'd prevent so much needless suffering and loss of lives.

[Seraphim]

I know I don't know you in person, but you have no idea how much I admire you and your strength.

Awww, thank you. I am an ordinary person, really. 😊

[katrina1980]

Annia, in the Seduced by Evil documentary, it was said that Derek Alldred was extremely tech savvy, had the ability to hack into computers, email accounts, obtain credit card account numbers, ID's, SSN's, etc.

 

Once a person has this info, identify fraud becomes quite easy.

 

No, one doesn't need to sign anything, it's all done electronically.

 

One woman got frauded out of $250,000! He was spending one woman's money, to woo other women!

 

Expensive trips, jewelry, dinners, clothes, etc.

 

Boggles the mind!

[Seraphim]

Thanks for posting that. Really, it's so terrible, and your candour is so refreshing to me.

 

You hit on something for me. What happened is what happened- and that's a level of acceptance in the journey of healing after being subjected to various levels of abuse and neglect. Your mom isn't an all evil person - yet she still did her part in causing tremendous hurt to her children. It's similar to my own experience coming to terms with my moms alcoholism and poor ( and lack) of coping techniques ( a lot of that due to not healing nor receiving resources for her own serious traumas).

End of the day though, hurt is hurt and even if you had choice in choosing it, a lot of times parents pass on their pains to their kids.

 

What FIO said about greater awareness about mental health - yes yes yes. I believe that would help prevent so much of this at the root. And you know, a better understanding and early treatments for trauma.

 

I think that along with less leniency in allowing those who commit crimes, and we'd prevent so much needless suffering and loss of lives.

 

Absolutely, and my mom never received any treatment and to this day never received any treatment for any of her serious traumas either . She chooses to ignore it by saying she has friends . I have told her that friends aren’t therapists . And even to this day she won’t tell me all the things that my father has put her through but I think he’s subjected her to some kind of sexual abuse . She said she can’t tell me . I have told her to stop bringing it up because I can’t bear it either tell me or don’t but stop bringing it up . She told me if she did tell me I would hate him for the rest of my life and she doesn’t want that . I have told her my opinion of him couldn’t possibly be any lower .

[Annia]

Annia, in the Seduced by Evil documentary, it was said that Derek Alldred was extremely tech savvy, had the ability to hack into computers, email accounts, obtain credit card account numbers, ID's, SSN's, etc.

 

Once a person has this info, identify fraud becomes quite easy.

 

No, one doesn't need to sign anything, it's all done electronically.

 

One woman got frauded out of $250,000! He was spending one woman's money, to woo other women!

 

Expensive trips, jewelry, dinners, clothes, etc.

 

Boggles the mind!

 

I saw that now! He was buying stuff to one woman using the previous woman's money! I hope that these women could have their money back.

 

Some women say he had linkedin profiles with reviews and even a number they called and a secretary answer and everything seemed very legit. Something similar this man had to Dirty John was that he talked marriage weeks into the relationships. Also, some of the family members were suspicious right from the beginning but these women couldn't find actual proof through background checks. Also, I think he changed his name from woman to woman I think.

 

Another thing I notice with these men is that there's an escalation of violence. They probably get this feeling that they can get away with more and more and become bolder and more violent.

 

PS: I've online dated a lot and did some really stupid stuff like taking rides from guys I met from online date that I cringe just by thinking about how dangerous that is. But I've always been careful to never let an online date know my actual address in the beginning and I'm even more careful now living in this country. I just feel nervous thinking about marrying a guy I met online months into meeting them or letting them get access to my professional life. And even with all the precautions some of these women had, you never know.

[katrina1980]

I have a question to those who OLD and are savvy about it.

 

Both John and Derek found these women on line and they specifically targeted wealthy women.

 

I know match.com has a box you check indicating your salary range/net worth. Then one to check the range of the partner you seek.

 

Would it be considered lying if you check a box lower than your salary or net worth? To prevent scammers, cons, catfishes, gold diggers and the like?

 

For men too, not just women.

 

I know lying about age is frowned upon but what about net worth?

[Annia]

Can someone tell some of the women in this kind of documentaries to stop introducing men they've met online and only dated for a few months to their children? Thanks.

[Annia]

I have a question to those who OLD and are savvy about it.

 

Both John and Derek found these women on line and they specifically targeted wealthy women.

 

I know match.com has a box you check indicating your salary range/net worth. Then one to check the range of the partner you seek.

 

Would it be considered lying if you check a box lower than your salary or net worth? To prevent scammers, cons, catfishes and the like?

 

I know lying about age is frowned upon but what about net worth?

 

I've never used Match.com but I thought there was an option of hiding this from the profile?

 

I know some people might consider checking a box lower than you salary dishonest, but I think it's not as bad as doing the opposite. I don't think I'd be upset if I found out a man was richer than he presented himself to be in the beginning. I don't know.

 

I think the most common target for these scammers is: 40-50 year olds, divorced and wealthy.

[katrina1980]

I've never used Match.com but I thought there was an option of hiding this from the profile?

 

I think the most common target for these scammers is: 40-50 year olds, divorced and wealthy.

 

I know but how do they know they're wealthy from looking at a profile?

 

If I were as wealthy as these women, I sure would not be broadcasting this on a dating website.

 

That's just inviting cons and gold diggers imo. Like Derek and John.

 

In fact I'd be downplaying my wealth, my career, salary so as to avoid these types of men!

 

Once we meet, click, get to know each other and develop trust, then I would disclose it.

[Annia]

I know but how do they know they're wealthy from looking at a profile?

 

If I were as wealthy as these women, I sure would not be broadcasting this on an on line profile.

 

That's just inviting cons and gold diggers imo.

 

In fact I'd be downplaying my wealth, my career, salary so as to avoid these types of men!

 

Once we meet, click, and get to know each other, then I would disclose it.

 

I think you can't possible know 100% sure, but lets take a woman like Debra. She dresses nice, well groomed with perfect died hair, is an interior designer wth her own company (probably in her profile). She probably has pictures in expensive places or holidays. And if some of this information was not in her profile, she maybe has social media where he could take a look at where she socialises and where she spends holidays. I know poor people can also have these attributes, but some people simply "look rich". And even if he wasn't 100% sure that she was rich, he got confirmation when he picked her up at her house on that first date.