How can I earn a living working online without having to do marketing?

[Rockchick26]

Just to make sure I’m understanding ...

 

You can’t work mornings or early afternoons.

 

Well I have had jobs where I started at 1pm, so I would have to get up by 11. That was do-able. But certainly not any earlier. Whenever I haven't had a job, my body will naturally shift to the sleeping hours that work best and they tend to be generally from around 4 am until around noon.

 

You can’t work jobs with phones.

 

Well, it would depend I guess. I am ok with talking to coworkers on the phone but not the general public. Anything where i have to answer questions or help someone, that's what I struggle with. But I could easily talk to people that are within the business.

 

You won’t work factory jobs, despite that being almost all your experience.

 

I didn't say I wont do them, I have had 4 factory jobs total. They are just the most soul-sucking of all jobs out there. You're stuck in a windowless loud gray building with unnatural light and hundreds of people who are settled in there for life so they become really gossipy and backstabbing (all my factory jobs were full of these kinds of people). It's a very toxic environment. Not to mention all the safety hazards (breathing fumes, etc.)

 

You don’t want a boss.

 

In my defense, no one who has their own business wants a boss. I really haven't had much trouble with bosses in the past though, even was friends with a few of them, I guess my last one was so bad she made up for all the good ones I had and ruined me on wanting a boss again.

 

You won’t do marketing.

 

I won't do hard sell marketing...but soft sell doesn't sound so bad (and quiet marketing, which I think is almost the same thing, I still have to do my research on it.) But yes I would still prefer to not have to do any.

 

You want it to have absolutely no unhealthy components (which translates to me you have to love it??)

 

If the job is perfect in every other way, I could tolerate one unhealthy thing. Factories are just full of unhealthy things though. But yeah unfortunately that's what I have the most experience in. I can't even think of any of my other jobs being unhealthy, it was probably just the factories.

 

You won’t do work that requires airplane travel.

 

Most jobs don't require airplane travel so this one shouldn't be hard to avoid.

 

You don’t have a college degree and you won’t get one.

 

I have very strong feelings against colleges in general, so no. I've just known too many people who regret it, said it wasn't worth it, told me not to waste my time or money because job experience is more important, etc. Plus you can learn anything for free or cheap compared to college. It's a huge scam. Medical students only get a few hours of nutrition classes, and these are people that are supposed to keep us healthy!? I personally know chefs who went to culinary school and their teachers were forced to use textbooks that had wrong information in them and when asked why they couldn't use these other correct textbooks, the teachers admitted that it was wrong but they were under strict orders which books to use. I could go on, lol I'm just very against college so I had to explain why.

 

You also won’t do a trade.

 

If I could find one that I liked, yes. I do love to type but good luck finding a job where you are JUST typing these days. Now if you want to type, you pretty much have to run the entire office. I'm not even sure if typing is a trade. But no I have never ran across a trade job that I was interested in.

[Rockchick26]

"Passive" is a great word for you.

 

Not finding something that fits you make you passive?

[Batya33]

"In my defense, no one who has their own business wants a boss. I really haven't had much trouble with bosses in the past though, even was friends with a few of them, I guess my last one was so bad she made up for all the good ones I had and ruined me on wanting a boss again."

 

Your clients and customers will be your bosses. Make no mistake about that.

 

As far as college basing your broad opinion on anecdotal second hand at most experience underscores the issues with your attitude. Yes, I loved school and grad school too and your negative comments about individual experiences are well-taken -there are bad apples in every school, every industry, etc - but to generalize it in the way you do shows me that it's probably that you're insecure or maybe a bit jealous of those who have decided to accomplish their schooling and use it to their advantage after. Maybe, just speculating. Certainly your "opposition" and particularly what it is based on shows that. Yes, I have the comfort of knowing that because of what I accomplished in school and grad school I am employable in a way that will keep me at least financially stable if needed. It's a great feeling.

 

I can type -took it in school, am fast, etc. I never had to run a whole office nor did I ever have a job that was just typing, even my temp jobs required more than that.

 

As far as sleeping it's possible to change your body clock to a more standard one where you wake up in time for an 8-9am arrival at work/start to your day. If you want to. And that goes back to Jibralta's comment.

 

You can do this. Just please stop getting in your own way and focus on how you can roll up your sleeves and take actions - what are you going to do today -what concrete step - to reach your goal?

[Jibralta]

Not finding something that fits you make you passive?

 

No, the way that you're going about this is passive.

[dias]

 

I have very strong feelings against colleges in general, so no. I've just known too many people who regret it, said it wasn't worth it, told me not to waste my time or money because job experience is more important, etc. Plus you can learn anything for free or cheap compared to college. It's a huge scam. Medical students only get a few hours of nutrition classes, and these are people that are supposed to keep us healthy!? I personally know chefs who went to culinary school and their teachers were forced to use textbooks that had wrong information in them and when asked why they couldn't use these other correct textbooks, the teachers admitted that it was wrong but they were under strict orders which books to use. I could go on, lol I'm just very against college so I had to explain why.

You don't go to the university only for the knowledge. You forget what you learned after the exams. What you learn in the university are dedication and discipline. Plus the university ascertains that you have this knowledge otherwise anyone can claim that he is qualified for the job.

 

I do believe that tourism is a good field to break into. Marketing is easier in this case because the clients (tourists) already exist. Of course basic advertising is indispensable.

[mustlovedogs]

Well I have had jobs where I started at 1pm, so I would have to get up by 11. That was do-able. But certainly not any earlier. Whenever I haven't had a job, my body will naturally shift to the sleeping hours that work best and they tend to be generally from around 4 am until around noon.

 

 

 

Well, it would depend I guess. I am ok with talking to coworkers on the phone but not the general public. Anything where i have to answer questions or help someone, that's what I struggle with. But I could easily talk to people that are within the business.

 

 

 

I didn't say I wont do them, I have had 4 factory jobs total. They are just the most soul-sucking of all jobs out there. You're stuck in a windowless loud gray building with unnatural light and hundreds of people who are settled in there for life so they become really gossipy and backstabbing (all my factory jobs were full of these kinds of people). It's a very toxic environment. Not to mention all the safety hazards (breathing fumes, etc.)

 

 

 

In my defense, no one who has their own business wants a boss. I really haven't had much trouble with bosses in the past though, even was friends with a few of them, I guess my last one was so bad she made up for all the good ones I had and ruined me on wanting a boss again.

 

 

 

I won't do hard sell marketing...but soft sell doesn't sound so bad (and quiet marketing, which I think is almost the same thing, I still have to do my research on it.) But yes I would still prefer to not have to do any.

 

 

 

If the job is perfect in every other way, I could tolerate one unhealthy thing. Factories are just full of unhealthy things though. But yeah unfortunately that's what I have the most experience in. I can't even think of any of my other jobs being unhealthy, it was probably just the factories.

 

 

 

Most jobs don't require airplane travel so this one shouldn't be hard to avoid.

 

 

 

I have very strong feelings against colleges in general, so no. I've just known too many people who regret it, said it wasn't worth it, told me not to waste my time or money because job experience is more important, etc. Plus you can learn anything for free or cheap compared to college. It's a huge scam. Medical students only get a few hours of nutrition classes, and these are people that are supposed to keep us healthy!? I personally know chefs who went to culinary school and their teachers were forced to use textbooks that had wrong information in them and when asked why they couldn't use these other correct textbooks, the teachers admitted that it was wrong but they were under strict orders which books to use. I could go on, lol I'm just very against college so I had to explain why.

 

 

 

If I could find one that I liked, yes. I do love to type but good luck finding a job where you are JUST typing these days. Now if you want to type, you pretty much have to run the entire office. I'm not even sure if typing is a trade. But no I have never ran across a trade job that I was interested in.

 

You can justify every excuse all you want - but these are excuses.

 

Some may be more legitimate than others, but excuses nonetheless.

[Batya33]

You don't go to the university only for the knowledge. You forget what you learned after the exams. What you learn in the university are dedication and discipline. Plus the university ascertains that you have this knowledge otherwise anyone can claim that he is qualified for the job.

 

I do believe that tourism is a good field to break into. Marketing is easier in this case because the clients (tourists) already exist. Of course basic advertising is indispensable.

 

Maybe you forgot. I did not. My mother did not, either (and she still takes college classes in her 80s) -so I love your other point and don't want to devalue the knowledge.

[dias]

Maybe you forgot. I did not. My mother did not, either (and she still takes college classes in her 80s) -so I love your other point and don't want to devalue the knowledge.

https://www.quora.com/What-did-Einstein-mean-by-“Education-is-what-remains-after-one-has-forgotten-everything-he-learned-in-school-”

I haven't forgotten everything but there are many things that weren't useful at work and therefore I forgot them.For instance, I never used the advanced mathematics I learned in my Bachelor's degree.

[Batya33]

https://www.quora.com/What-did-Einstein-mean-by-“Education-is-what-remains-after-one-has-forgotten-everything-he-learned-in-school-”

I haven't forgotten everything but there are many things that weren't useful at work and therefore I forgot them.For instance, I never used the advanced mathematics I learned in my Bachelor's degree.

 

Yes, individuals might not remember certain things or find certain things useful and thanks for the link with Einstein's take on things lol. I don't remember everything, I don't wish to remember everything. I learned some irrelevant things too. In general I don't like to see higher education devalued especially in a generalized way, or reduced to only being good one narrow aspect or -of course- reduced to the silly 'just a piece of paper". The OP has offered opinions that have generalized views on education based on second hand anecdotal experiences including about medical school and her sweeping assumptions about what is taught about nutrition and what doctors presumably know about nutrition (I did not attend medical school and am sure that her sweeping dismissal of that aspect has little basis in reality). When I see someone making sweeping generalizations about higher education often there is something else at play like insecurity. On the other hand someone who explains, cogently "college was not the right fit for me because my strengths are ____ and therefore I pursued ____ which a college degree would not have helped with" shows me a thought process that approaches the issue of education and future goals/career with a true sense of self and with balance and perspective.

[abitbroken]

If left to my own devices, i am a night owl. I don't natural think about going to bed or wind down until at least 1:30 am or 2. I natural wake at 10:30. But i can't do that. I had a week of doctors appointments where i had to be there at 7, so i had to get up at quarter to six at the latest (and that is clothes set out, unwashed pony tail -- leaving at a run). It was due or die - there is no way i could miss. so i set an alarm. Yes, i was dead dog tired the first day and fell asleep the minute i came home, but the second night i wound down early. I turned off the phone an hour before bed. I read a book instead of watching a movie or getting involved journaling. i stopped eating early and i was sleeping by 11:30. then the next night i did a little better than that. you might not be able to train yourself to get 4 hours of sleep, which is dangerous anyway - but you can train yourself to go to bed earlier and get up earlier. Even if you have to sleep 12 hours -- you can train yourself to have better sleep hygiene and get there earlier.

 

I think that what you are lacking is what people who have their own business have - you are not a self starter. People that have worked for themselves didn't think of "what am i really good at?" they think "what need is not being met?" What type of service in your town is not being met by others? How can you fill the need of others that someone else is not doing?

 

I honestly think you are better suited to working for someone than you are for yourself -- but that's just me.

[Rockchick26]

 

Your clients and customers will be your bosses. Make no mistake about that.

 

But they aren't going to micromanage you, or tell you what to do.

 

As far as college basing your broad opinion on anecdotal second hand at most experience underscores the issues with your attitude. Yes, I loved school and grad school too and your negative comments about individual experiences are well-taken -there are bad apples in every school, every industry, etc - but to generalize it in the way you do shows me that it's probably that you're insecure or maybe a bit jealous of those who have decided to accomplish their schooling and use it to their advantage after. Maybe, just speculating. Certainly your "opposition" and particularly what it is based on shows that. Yes, I have the comfort of knowing that because of what I accomplished in school and grad school I am employable in a way that will keep me at least financially stable if needed. It's a great feeling.

 

My opinion about college isn't just based on others' bad experiences, I just don't believe it is the right way to educate people. I believe it should be free like it is in other countries. Or at least a hell of a lot cheaper. The cost to operate a school and pay it's employees is FAR less than how much they ask people to pay them. Why should they get to profit? Because this country is aimed at putting it's citizens into debt. And college is not the only way they accomplish this. Debt is messed up and only benefits the big corporations. I could go on for hours about the many ways this system is messed up, college is just a small part of it. Information and knowledge should never have a 5 or 6 figure cost. In the old days, knowledge was passed on by our elders for free. Now there is a high cost if you don't want to go through life stupid and working dead end minimum wage jobs.

 

As far as sleeping it's possible to change your body clock to a more standard one where you wake up in time for an 8-9am arrival at work/start to your day. If you want to. And that goes back to Jibralta's comment.

 

No, it isn't possible. There is no cure for this disorder, I don't just have insomnia, I have a circadian rhythm disorder. No one who has ever had this has been able to change their body clock to be normal.

 

You can do this. Just please stop getting in your own way and focus on how you can roll up your sleeves and take actions - what are you going to do today -what concrete step - to reach your goal?

 

Today I am going to work on my classes I'm taking and probably read some more of these books people suggested to me (from a business forum).

[Rockchick26]

No, the way that you're going about this is passive.

 

How? Almost every chance I get I am working on figuring out what to do.

[Rockchick26]

You don't go to the university only for the knowledge. You forget what you learned after the exams. What you learn in the university are dedication and discipline. Plus the university ascertains that you have this knowledge otherwise anyone can claim that he is qualified for the job.

 

I am not against getting a degree or certificate to show you have the knowledge (even though there are easy ways to test someone on their knowledge), I am against the cost and the politics of it. And interesting you say that you forget what you learned after the exams, if that is true, how competent do you think anyone is once they get on a job, if they forget what they learned? This reminds me of something a chef told me, he said what he learned in college was NOT the way it works in actual kitchens and resteraunts. Actual job experience teaches you more about what it's really like than colleges do. (at least in that field)

 

I do believe that tourism is a good field to break into. Marketing is easier in this case because the clients (tourists) already exist. Of course basic advertising is indispensable.

 

Yeah I have been thinking about that a little since someone suggested it yesterday (maybe it was you), I would have to deal only with local stuff though, i've barely been out of the surrounding states where I live so i wouldn't want to pretend I'm an expert in other areas.

[Rockchick26]

You can justify every excuse all you want - but these are excuses.

 

Some may be more legitimate than others, but excuses nonetheless.

 

You need to learn the difference between an excuse and a reason.

[Rockchick26]

Yes, individuals might not remember certain things or find certain things useful and thanks for the link with Einstein's take on things lol. I don't remember everything, I don't wish to remember everything. I learned some irrelevant things too. In general I don't like to see higher education devalued especially in a generalized way, or reduced to only being good one narrow aspect or -of course- reduced to the silly 'just a piece of paper". The OP has offered opinions that have generalized views on education based on second hand anecdotal experiences including about medical school and her sweeping assumptions about what is taught about nutrition and what doctors presumably know about nutrition (I did not attend medical school and am sure that her sweeping dismissal of that aspect has little basis in reality). When I see someone making sweeping generalizations about higher education often there is something else at play like insecurity. On the other hand someone who explains, cogently "college was not the right fit for me because my strengths are ____ and therefore I pursued ____ which a college degree would not have helped with" shows me a thought process that approaches the issue of education and future goals/career with a true sense of self and with balance and perspective.

 

They aren't sweeping assumptions, they are facts. Multiple professionals in the industry have said these things. I research things before I repeat them and these are things I have been hearing for years from multiple credible sources. It isn't mainstream though, of course, because if it were masses of people would stop going to college. A lot of the things I talk about aren't mainstream but if you research enough it's all over the place and not just on the internet. Books written by former college professors and former doctors, more documentaries than I can count, etc. I've noticed something interesting whenever trying to educate people on what things are really like, people get defensive as if I was attacking their personal actions. I am not dissing anyone who has been to college and it may have been a great life changing experience for you. But nobody wants to hear the dark side of what happens so they just get mad and put up a wall when you tell them about it. This is why whistleblowers usually get murdered.

[Batya33]

You need to learn the difference between an excuse and a reason.

 

I can - and I mean this with no sarcasm -when I read your list they are quintessential excuses. A reason would be something like "I cannot apply for jobs now that require a college degree because I don't have one right now" or "I cannot take a job that requires driving a truck without a CDL" or "I routinely vomit at the sight of blood so being an EMT would not be the right fit for me." Things like that that you have no or virtually no control over that are true obstacles either forever or at least for the time being. Those are valid reasons for why you can't do certain jobs.

[journeynow]

I do want to earn money working online though, I want something that is location independent and something I don't need to leave the house to do.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/04/07/the-20-most-common-work-from-home-job-opportunities/#4b9df6a64ddd

Below, the list shows the diversity of the most popular work-from-home positions:

 

1. Writer
   
2. Consultant
   
3. Customer Service Representative
   
4. Sales Representative
   
5. Engineer
   
6. Account Executive/Manager
   
7. Software Developer
   
8. Case Manager
   
9. Medical Coder
   
10. Adjunct Faculty
    
11. Systems Analyst
    
12. Program/Project Manager
    
13. UI/UX Designer
    
14. Travel Counselor
    
15. Insurance Adjuster
    
16. Graphic Designer
    
17. Bilingual Interpreter
    
18. SEO/Marketing Assistant
    
19. Director of Business Development
    
20. Marketing Manager
    

[Rockchick26]

If left to my own devices, i am a night owl. I don't natural think about going to bed or wind down until at least 1:30 am or 2. I natural wake at 10:30. But i can't do that. I had a week of doctors appointments where i had to be there at 7, so i had to get up at quarter to six at the latest (and that is clothes set out, unwashed pony tail -- leaving at a run). It was due or die - there is no way i could miss. so i set an alarm. Yes, i was dead dog tired the first day and fell asleep the minute i came home, but the second night i wound down early. I turned off the phone an hour before bed. I read a book instead of watching a movie or getting involved journaling. i stopped eating early and i was sleeping by 11:30. then the next night i did a little better than that. you might not be able to train yourself to get 4 hours of sleep, which is dangerous anyway - but you can train yourself to go to bed earlier and get up earlier. Even if you have to sleep 12 hours -- you can train yourself to have better sleep hygiene and get there earlier.

 

All I can say is if you can train yourself to go to sleep earlier, then you don't have this disorder. You can't just train yourself, it doesn't work that way. When you get a disorder, just try to train yourself out of it and see how that works. I ended up in the hospital after being forced to get up at 6 am for only a week and a half. That is what led to my diagnosis.

 

I think that what you are lacking is what people who have their own business have - you are not a self starter. People that have worked for themselves didn't think of "what am i really good at?" they think "what need is not being met?" What type of service in your town is not being met by others? How can you fill the need of others that someone else is not doing?

 

I honestly think you are better suited to working for someone than you are for yourself -- but that's just me.

 

I have always been a self starter at all my jobs, because I knew what had to be done and I wouldn't delay in getting it done and I didn't need anyone to tell me what to do or when to do it. You can't say someone isn't a self starter in their personal life if they are trying to get something to work, they just havent figured out what it is yet. If my path was clear, I would have been on it by now. And I am not going to just do something just because no one else is doing it, I want to do something that I love, that's the entire purpose of trying to find a career that I won't quit like the rest of them.

[dias]

I am not against getting a degree or certificate to show you have the knowledge (even though there are easy ways to test someone on their knowledge), I am against the cost and the politics of it. And interesting you say that you forget what you learned after the exams, if that is true, how competent do you think anyone is once they get on a job, if they forget what they learned? This reminds me of something a chef told me, he said what he learned in college was NOT the way it works in actual kitchens and resteraunts. Actual job experience teaches you more about what it's really like than colleges do. (at least in that field)

 

 

 

Yeah I have been thinking about that a little since someone suggested it yesterday (maybe it was you), I would have to deal only with local stuff though, i've barely been out of the surrounding states where I live so i wouldn't want to pretend I'm an expert in other areas.

 

I am against large tuition fees myself but if you want a degree there are plenty of European universities that do not require tuition fees (and very prestigious universities). I don't think that you should emphasize on formal education though. A small business seems a better fit. Everything is until you make the first step.

[Rockchick26]

I can - and I mean this with no sarcasm -when I read your list they are quintessential excuses. A reason would be something like "I cannot apply for jobs now that require a college degree because I don't have one right now" or "I cannot take a job that requires driving a truck without a CDL" or "I routinely vomit at the sight of blood so being an EMT would not be the right fit for me." Things like that that you have no or virtually no control over that are true obstacles either forever or at least for the time being. Those are valid reasons for why you can't do certain jobs.

 

The difference between an excuse and a reason is when you use an excuse you are blaming someone or some thing on why you can't do it. But when you have a reason, it is factual and there is no blame involved.

[Rockchick26]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/04/07/the-20-most-common-work-from-home-job-opportunities/#4b9df6a64ddd

 

Thanks for the list! I'll go over them when I can.

[Rockchick26]

I am against large tuition fees myself but if you want a degree there are plenty of European universities that do not require tuition fees (and very prestigious universities). I don't think that you should emphasize on formal education though. A small business seems a better fit. Everything is until you make the first step.

 

I am actually taking 3 classes through a college in England, it's online only though so it isn't really a college, but the courses are under $200 so that's do-able.

[dias]

And interesting you say that you forget what you learned after the exams, if that is true, how competent do you think anyone is once they get on a job, if they forget what they learned? This reminds me of something a chef told me, he said what he learned in college was NOT the way it works in actual kitchens and resteraunts. Actual job experience teaches you more about what it's really like than colleges do. (at least in that field)

Ok, to put it simply: universities are formal institutions of knowledge like police is the formal law enforcement.

 

You don't need a college degree to make money.

[abitbroken]

They aren't sweeping assumptions, they are facts. Multiple professionals in the industry have said these things. I research things before I repeat them and these are things I have been hearing for years from multiple credible sources. It isn't mainstream though, of course, because if it were masses of people would stop going to college. A lot of the things I talk about aren't mainstream but if you research enough it's all over the place and not just on the internet. Books written by former college professors and former doctors, more documentaries than I can count, etc. I've noticed something interesting whenever trying to educate people on what things are really like, people get defensive as if I was attacking their personal actions. I am not dissing anyone who has been to college and it may have been a great life changing experience for you. But nobody wants to hear the dark side of what happens so they just get mad and put up a wall when you tell them about it. This is why whistleblowers usually get murdered.

 

Ok -- this line of conversation is not even relevant to this conversation. you are not going to get a bachelor's degree so let's not go down that rabbit hole. But you may indeed need some sort of certification or apprenticeship for some jobs you might want. Yes, people are finding that a 4 year degree is not for everyone. It may be better for lots of people to go to a trade school but its not bad to have a degree and it does not make someone automatically enlightened because they do not have one.

 

BUT i will tell you -- at least when i started working and even now --- let's put aside doctors, engineers and people that requires multiple years of study to learn their trade etc --- many employers look for a degree -- whether its a 2 year degree or what because it shows that you finished something. some of my friends do not work in the field of their certificaton, associate's degree or master's degree anymore, but what impressed employers is that they stuck with it, finished it and completed it.

[abitbroken]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2014/04/07/the-20-most-common-work-from-home-job-opportunities/#4b9df6a64ddd

 

MANY of these jobs requires degrees or certifications or to at least work for the company in the office before you have earned the right to telecommute. All of those tech jobs require certification programs or degrees. And no one is going to hire her as adjunct university faculty with no degree. And if she only speaks English, kiss interpreter goodbye. Most of the people who i know who work from home have paid their dues in the field first. there is no job on this list that you can start tomorrow with no certification, existing skill, etc.

 

I am actually taking 3 classes through a college in England, it's online only though so it isn't really a college, but the courses are under $200 so that's do-able.

 

Are these courses part of a certification or are these fluff courses?

I know you are looking at the price - but will this get you anywhere?

If you like just sort of poking around and taking random classes, maybe finding another job at a plant or a factory to have the income needed to do the exploration classes might be a good idea too