Women Initiating When Really Into A Guy

[katrina1980]

Short Update:

 

So this is funny; I was taking a short break this afternoon around 3ish so decided to email him today (prefer email over text).

 

Well just as I started typing, in comes one from him! He said HE was taking a short break!

 

He sent me a funny, something we had sort of joked about on our date, made me laugh!

 

So we joked about that, chatted for about 10 minutes, teasing, fun and flirty, as usual.

 

Also firmed up plans for Friday, where to go, time etc.

 

Planned for 7ish, said he'd let me know when leaving.

 

I feel really good! Just gonna let this play out and see where it goes!

 

Thanks for getting me over a rough patch last weekend guys, as I said I've texted guys before lots of times and never had any guy get turned off by it.

 

Quite the contrary actually, judging by how quickly they replied back, and asked me out again almost immediately thereafter.

 

But I really like this guy and his texting style is a bit different from the others, so admit I "was" anxious last weekend but feeling lots better now.

 

Kinda like this slower pace too, it's creating some tension for me which increases my attraction!

 

Just me, I know everyone's different.

[katrina1980]

hope you get a better result this time

 

Oh you mean better than the last guy! LOL

 

Me too!

[Alm07]

Omgsh do I relate to this!!! Yes! I am going through this as we speak! At first I was so care free and whatever about it but now that I like him a lot I found myself letting him text me first and never suggesting we go out, only he was planning to see me. I never asked anymore. I just posted a long but very interesting question about it lol I swear it feels like I'm in an episode of a tv show. Just unreal. I think this is because women tend to be viewed as "crazy" or desperate if they initiate things. It's been engraved in us that men do the chasing. But it's 2017, I mean, is it really that bad if a woman knows what she wants and goes after it?

[Careerchoice]

It's a self defense mechanism. You don't want to play a part in opening yourself up and becoming vulnerable. Nothing abnormal about it.

 

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it. It's what your life experiences have made you. So accept it and don't judge yourself. You just have to hope you get lucky and meet a guy you're really into who understands this about you and pursues you through it.

[katrina1980]

It's a self defense mechanism. You don't want to play a part in opening yourself up and becoming vulnerable. Nothing abnormal about it.

 

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it. It's what your life experiences have made you. So accept it and don't judge yourself. You just have to hope you get lucky and meet a guy you're really into who understands this about you and pursues you through it.

 

Thnx but please read the thread, specifically my updates, the last one if you don't have time, on the last page.

 

Feeling much better now, we've been communicating and have confirmed date for Friday.

 

I was feeling off last weekend that's all, got over it.

[Batya33]

Omgsh do I relate to this!!! Yes! I am going through this as we speak! At first I was so care free and whatever about it but now that I like him a lot I found myself letting him text me first and never suggesting we go out, only he was planning to see me. I never asked anymore. I just posted a long but very interesting question about it lol I swear it feels like I'm in an episode of a tv show. Just unreal. I think this is because women tend to be viewed as "crazy" or desperate if they initiate things. It's been engraved in us that men do the chasing. But it's 2017, I mean, is it really that bad if a woman knows what she wants and goes after it?

 

I think it's great if women -and people! -know what they want and go after it but "go after it" needs to be balanced against what the real goal is -is it ego-driven -to "get the guy/gal" or is it because you really want to get to know the person. Women have been saying this for decades now "it's ___ year, I have my own money/career/education and of course I should be able to ask men out and have it be ok, etc" - but the analogy to "go for it" as between let's say professional pursuits and romantic pursuits doesn't really work. And anyway, many of us I am sure have held back in doing too much "chasing" professionally too - think about networking/interviewing etc - you want the job/client/opportunity desperately -it's perfect for you -but while you want to show the person who you are and what you can do and take initiative, you also sometimes have to tell yourself that approaching the way your heart is screaming at you to would torpedo the opportunity because the recipient wouldn't respond well/would see it as too pushy, etc.

 

It's about not seeing asking someone out as "chasing" -it's about no one chasing the other because if you really do have to chase there's a reason and it's probably not a good one. Either it's because of your own insecurities/irrational thoughts or the other person is not reciprocating/not that into you.

 

There are many ways in dating to go after what you want without being the person who does most of the asking/initiating in the beginning. If the guy is more of a traditional type (which 20 years ago was described as "typical" not "traditional") and that's ok with you - then doing most of the asking in the beginning or "going after it" in that way likely will be a turn off. If traditional is not ok with you then you find a guy who wants "equality" -meaning from the beginning you each ask each other out equally, half the time (which again seems kind of forced/artificial but I guess so does traditional dating to some), or you find a guy who is super laid back in general, doesn't react to feelings of desire/interest by initiating dates/contact, etc and is happy for you to take the lead most or all of the time -and you have to be happy taking the lead most or all of the time.

[thealchemist]

I really agree a lot about "the chase" aspect of your above statement. It is easy for a relationship with a chaser/chasee to be pretty unbalanced. That imbalance will likely hold over to other aspects of your relationship too and cause issues.

 

A reason why I was very adamant to call my wife and let her know how much I enjoyed our first date was to give her the reassurance that I enjoyed myself especially since she did a bit of the pursuing with me.

 

We always split everything equal. When we went out to eat we just swapped who covered the bill. If it was more expensive the other would cover tip. I really didn't find it to be weird or anything. To me it is a lot more weird to have one gender always cover the bill.

 

I have always found chivilary to be extremely sexist. I would be insulted if I were a woman and was treated accordingly.

[figureitout23]

Chivalry is far from sexist in my eyes, in fact calling it as much cheapens the word, imo. Opening the door, Paying for my meal, giving me your coat if I'm cold. If you don't want to do it you don't have to, but an independent woman doesn't negate a man being a gentleman unless some buttcrack wants it to.The fact that somewhere in the world tonight, a man is paying for a woman's loaded nachos is the least of womankinds concern.

 

Some people on this board push this idea that we should act outside of our natural behaviors and at the end of the day, it doesnt work. Men are natural pursuers. Society can tweak this but what attracts us to one another isnt going to change.

 

One can shove down women's throats that they literally have to be men when dating now, paying, pursuing, sexing anything walking , but in what world is that beneficial to women? Loosening the rules? I'm on board with. Putting everything on women 'cause it's 2017'? no thanks.

[ThatwasThen]

I really agree a lot about "the chase" aspect of your above statement. It is easy for a relationship with a chaser/chasee to be pretty unbalanced. That imbalance will likely hold over to other aspects of your relationship too and cause issues.

 

A reason why I was very adamant to call my wife and let her know how much I enjoyed our first date was to give her the reassurance that I enjoyed myself especially since she did a bit of the pursuing with me.

 

We always split everything equal. When we went out to eat we just swapped who covered the bill. If it was more expensive the other would cover tip. I really didn't find it to be weird or anything. To me it is a lot more weird to have one gender always cover the bill.

 

I have always found chivilary to be extremely sexist. I would be insulted if I were a woman and was treated accordingly.

I agree with everything you said except "chivilary being extremely sexist" It's just somewhat sexist. lol

[katrina1980]

 

Men are natural pursuers.

 

One can shove down women's throats that they literally have to be men when dating now, paying, pursuing, sexing anything walking , but in what world is that beneficial to women? Loosening the rules? I'm on board with. Putting everything on women 'cause it's 2017'? no thanks.

 

I've literally never seen this^. Nor have I seen where women are being taught to act as such. Women doing "all" the pursuing -- paying, initiating, essentially being the "man"? Where are you seeing/reading this happening?

 

That's not to say that doesn't work for some couples, I'm sure it does! And more power to them if it does.

 

Not my cup of tea but who am I, who is anyone, to judge what works/does not work for another couple?

 

Not sure I agree anymore that men are "natural pursuers."

 

Certainly some men are, but not all. Not anymore.

 

Yes, men have been "conditioned" to pursue by society or whatever, but men have evolved since our dad's day and are rebelling against that notion. With many men preferring, even expecting in some cases, a 50/50 division of pursuing, initiating, paying, reciprocating.

 

Just read these forums; I've been a member of four and hear men gripe about the same thing on all of them - they wish women would step up, initiate more, reciprocate! In fact a few guys on a different forum are so adament about this that they have stopped seeing women who don't offer to at least split the tab by the third date! Yes this IS happening.

 

That hardly means being the man. It just means giving back, doing our part. Showing them through our actions that we are interested in them too! Responding positively and enthusiastically just isn't enough anymore for many men.

 

I am learning that men need reassurance too. More than they will admit even. And more than we women will ever know.

 

I lost a man once (posted about that earlier in this thread) because back then I thought I had a "golden vagina," lol possessed a princess mentality, and didn't believe I needed to do jack shyt.

 

So I sat on my golden ass and did nothing, letting him do all the pursuing, all the work!

 

He broke up with me telling our friends who fixed us up that although he was very attracted at first and we had loads of fun, he got bored with having to do all the pursuing, no it did not come "natural" to him, he hated it and lost interest!

 

I say a couple should do whatever feels right and comfortable for them. There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to relationships.

 

If that means the woman taking charge more and she enjoys that role, and the man prefers a more passive role, again more power to 'em.

[figureitout23]

Katrina, you yourself have said you are having to change your ways and initiate more because you don't, but you also say when you start dating you are very giving and I'm going to assume you have no problem making plans and paying for meals, movies, trips ect. Right or wrong? Im the same way. You may have operated with a 'princess complex' before, but I personally haven't, I've seen it, but most of the women in my life don't operate that way because they're average women and average women don't have it like that, not in today's world, not that I've seen.

 

So what exactly are 'all these men' complaining about? They don't want to do the initiating anymore, ok fine 2017 now women initiate. Well men don't want to pay, no problem 2017 we split all the meals now, is this really what all these crocodile tears are about? Making dating a t*t for tat? I don't operate like that nor do I plan to change, I have never in my life ever put this much thought into it to be honest. I've never went on a date where the man complained about this stuff. As dating progressed I paid or we went dutch or we did stuff that was free whatever. I was much more busy having fun getting to know the person than counting pennies.

 

Look we can argue back and forth all day but every individual is different. Its all about finding someone who matches your preference cause the fact is these dating 'rules' aren't changing any time soon and again I think this push for change on this board is just going to amount to women going out and embarrassing themselves putting themselves out there for men who aren't all that interested and some will have no issue using her up. Oh right you can't use a woman... in my mind the tables are already imbalanced with women bending over backwards to be 'that girl.' I just don't see men having this horribly rough time they claim to have.

 

At the end of the day if it's a mutual attraction, none of this crap is thought about. No ones stressing things just flow. That's the lesson I'm taking from this convo.

[katrina1980]

Katrina. You yourself have said you are having to change your ways and initiate more because you don't but you also say when you start dating you are very giving and I'm going to assume you have no problem making plans and paying for meals, movies, trips ect. Right or wrong? Im the same way.

 

So what exactly are 'all these men' complaining about? They don't want to do the initiating anymore, ok fine 2017 now women initiate. Well men don't want to pay, no problem 2017 we split all the meals now, is this really what all these crocodile tears are about? Making dating a t*t for tat? I don't operate like that nor do I plan to change, I have never in my life ever put this much thought into it to be honest. I've never went on a date where the man complained, a vast majority paid. As dating progressed I paid or we went dutch or we did stuff that was free whatever. I was much more busy having fun getting to know the person than counting pennies.

 

Look we can argue back and forth all day but every individual is different. Its all about finding someone who matches your preference cause the fact is these dating 'rules' aren't changing any time soon and again I think this push for change on this board is just just going to amount to women going out and embarrassing themselves putting themselves out there for men who aren't all that interested and some will have no issue using her up. Oh right you can't use a woman...

 

At the end of the day if it's a mutual attraction, none of this crap is thought about.

 

What are men complaining about? Just what I said in my post -- they wish women would step up more, and take "some" initiative, which includes planning "some" of the dates and paying

 

Not all the pursuing and initiating, just some which I think is reasonable.

 

As for me, I never said I am "having" to change, I said I "want" to change.

 

Why? Because my old ways of thinking and behaving aren't working for me anymore.

 

I've posted this before, but my ex of six years literally pursued me for six years. He was very dominant and he enjoyed that role.

 

I thought we had a great relationship, we even got engaged.

 

But in retrospect, it wasn't, it was VERY unbalanced, obviously. And it really screwed me up for a long time afterwards.

 

Because of how I was raised, typically, until recently, I would not initiate a date until we were in a relationship, which would happen rather quickly. Within weeks.

 

And even then, my boyfriends did most of the planning and paying. Not proud to admit that but it's true.

 

NOW, even in early stages, I initiate "some" of the texts, offer to split, will sometimes plan something fun.

 

Which I plan to do with new guy on our next date after the one tomorrow. Assuming all goes well tomorrow!

 

I wish all it took is a mutual attraction for things to flow smoothly, sadly however people have "baggage" from prior BS they have experienced and bring that with them into new dating experiences which has the potential of screwing things up.

 

I created this thread to essentially discuss how easy it is to initiate (text, plan dates) when we are NOT all that into someone, but how that all changes when we REALLY like someone.

 

Plus new guy's texting style is different (he's not a big texter) from the others which threw me off but feel lots better about it all now!

[figureitout23]

What are men complaining about? Just what I said in my post -- they wish women would step up more, and take "some" initiative, which includes planning "some" of the dates and paying

 

Not all the pursuing and initiating, just some which I think is reasonable.

 

As for me, I never said I am "having" to change, I said I "want" to change.

 

Why? Because my old ways of thinking and behaving aren't working for me anymore.

 

I've posted this before, but my ex of six years literally pursued me for six years. He was very dominant and he enjoyed that role.

 

I thought we had a great relationship, we even got engaged.

 

But in retrospect, it wasn't, it was VERY unbalanced, obviously. And it really screwed me up for a long time afterwards.

 

Because of how I was raised, typically,, until recently, I would not initiate a date until we were in a relationship, which would happen rather quickly. Within weeks.

 

My dates would pay, I might offer the tip at most.

 

Again, until a relationship was established.

 

NOW, even in early stages, I initiate "some" of the texts, offer to split, will sometimes plan something fun.

 

Which I plan to do with new guy on our next date after the one tomorrow. Assuming all goes well tomorrow!

 

I wish all it took is a mutual attraction for things to flow smoothly, sadly however people have "baggage" from prior BS they have experienced and bring that with them into new dating experiences which has the potential of screwing things up.

 

I created this thread to essentially discuss how easy it is initiate (text, plan dates) when we are NOT all that into someone, but how that all changes when we REALLY like someone.

 

Plus his texting style is different (he's not a big texter) from the others which there me off but feel lots better about it all now!

 

Heads up, I edited my post

 

I think your dating expierience is unique to you and you see some areas where you can make some changes and I think that's great.

 

my last post wasn't nessesarily catered to your situation, I kinda thought that was already solved, lol. I was referencing this idea that women have to start 'taking charge' the reality is many, many women already do and have for many many years, so the complaining is confusing me.

[j.man]

Katrina, you yourself have said you are having to change your ways and initiate more because you don't, but you also say when you start dating you are very giving and I'm going to assume you have no problem making plans and paying for meals, movies, trips ect. Right or wrong? Im the same way. You may have operated with a 'princess complex' before, but I personally haven't, I've seen it, but most of the women in my life don't operate that way because they're average women and average women don't have it like that, not in today's world, not that I've seen.

 

So what exactly are 'all these men' complaining about? They don't want to do the initiating anymore, ok fine 2017 now women initiate. Well men don't want to pay, no problem 2017 we split all the meals now, is this really what all these crocodile tears are about? Making dating a t*t for tat? I don't operate like that nor do I plan to change, I have never in my life ever put this much thought into it to be honest. I've never went on a date where the man complained about this stuff. As dating progressed I paid or we went dutch or we did stuff that was free whatever. I was much more busy having fun getting to know the person than counting pennies.

 

Look we can argue back and forth all day but every individual is different. Its all about finding someone who matches your preference cause the fact is these dating 'rules' aren't changing any time soon and again I think this push for change on this board is just just going to amount to women going out and embarrassing themselves putting themselves out there for men who aren't all that interested and some will have no issue using her up. Oh right you can't use a woman...

 

At the end of the day if it's a mutual attraction, none of this crap is thought about.

I mean if you're gonna write all this and then go on about crocodile tears...

 

At the end of the day, I actually agree that people would by and large rather enjoy themselves dating than get caught up in all the hyperbole. You're swimming in it, though.

[katrina1980]

Heads up, I edited my post

 

I think your dating expierience is unique to you and you see some areas where you can make some changes and I think that's great.

 

my last post wasn't nessesarily catered to your situation, I kinda thought that was already solved, lol. I was referencing this idea that women have to start 'taking charge' the reality is many, many women already do and have for many many years, so the complaining is confusing me.

 

The complaining, yeah, apparently some guys are still dating women with that princess mentality, hence their frustration.

 

If you want to know the name of that other forum wherein there are way WAY more men posting than on ENA, shoot me a PM.

 

Don't think it's right I should name it here.

[figureitout23]

I mean if you're gonna write all this and then go on about crocodile tears...

 

At the end of the day, I actually agree that people would by and large rather enjoy themselves dating than get caught up in all the hyperbole. You're swimming in it, though.

 

...glug, glug ...

[figureitout23]

The complaining, yeah, apparently some guys are still dating women with that princess mentality, hence their frustration.

 

If you want to know the name of that other forum wherein there are way WAY more men posting than on ENA, shoot me a PM.

 

Don't think it's right I should name it here.

 

Sure you can DM it to me. I'm curious now.

[Batya33]

When I dated I let the man ask me out for most/all of the dates in the beginning and showed active interest and initiative in other ways. I offered to pay after the first few dates depending on the situation/circumstances. When we were in a relationship it depended -I liked taking turns treating (and planning -there wasn't anything set - it was just sort of who felt like it or we planned together) - my husband rarely let me treat. I remember when I was a student living with my parents I planned a birthday evening for my then boyfriend including a comedy club (which was popular then) -I think I had discount or free tickets to it. He commented that he paid more for the evening than I did because we had dinner (nothing fancy, but at a restaurant). He probably was right and that probably was tactless (rude?) of me. I think I was clueless mostly -it was the 1980s, I had it in my head that the guy should pay (he was a few years older with a good job/living on his own) and thought that since I planned/got him a gift that was enough.

 

Now that we're married, my husband still prefers to "pay" instead of me offering the credit card. In some cases it matters financially because we have joint and separate accounts but typically it's more of a going through the motions thing. We're in our 50s and his parents had him later in life and were very traditional and even though he is an adult with his own choices/brain/heart etc maybe some of it is ingrained?

[Cope]

One thing I can say is that I hate that "Princess" mentality. A friend of mine has it. She hasn't been on a date for years because she wants the man to do ALL the chasing and mean ALL. Even if he showers her with affection, somehow it's not enough. I am almost the complete opposite. If I'm into someone and the chemistry is showing, I just go for it. I do however somewhat wait for him to show interest. It doesn't have to be something huge, even by the way he's texting I can understand. I also like getting things out of the way. If he's not interested, lets find out sooner rather than later. I learned this this year the hard way.

 

So yeah, go for it! If you're into a guy, ask him out, show him that you're interested, life is too short to make someone jump through loops only to realise he wasn't "the one"!

[thealchemist]

Well a princess was a commodity that you exchanged their procreation rights for some form of monetary gain. Essentially a more long term and higher class prostitute.

 

Not the most flattering thing to want to idealize.

 

I think that the issues of "gender roles" is a moot point until you start expecting people to behave a certain way. If you are content in that role and so is your spouse then it doesn't matter.

 

But many people think that if you maintain one stereotype then others are also to be held.

 

So, if as a woman you expect a guy to pay for all the meals because that is what she thinks his gender role is then how is it any different for that guy to assume she needs do most the menial labor because that is his opinion of her role.

 

I think that going into a relationship with a guy with predetermined expectations like that is dangerous in many aspects.

 

I think many guys are just complaining about the double standard of chivalry. Chivalry is about protecting the "weaker gender", that is why it disgusts me so. That is its origins regardless of how it has evolved.

 

So if you want to reap certain benefits of being perceived as weak it is interesting that you want to pick and choose which aspects you like or don't.

 

That is totally fine in relationships, to pick and choose. But it isn't a shock either that many of these woman go into terrible relationships or none at all.

 

By the way this is all comments about "princesses" not woman in general.

[Batya33]

I think there should be regard to how it has evolved and also how/why men practice it as individuals. For some men it is just rote -hold the door for a lady. For others it has a deeper (sexist??) meaning. I am smaller and weaker physically than my husband. I might always be. So while I carry plenty of heavy packages constantly, he does take note of the division of labor, insisting I take the lighter packages upstairs and he will take the heavier ones. So? Is that sexist? Practical? Good manners?? In reality I think it's mannerly, thoughtful and realistic.

[thealchemist]

I think there should be regard to how it has evolved and also how/why men practice it as individuals. For some men it is just rote -hold the door for a lady. For others it has a deeper (sexist??) meaning. I am smaller and weaker physically than my husband. I might always be. So while I carry plenty of heavy packages constantly, he does take note of the division of labor, insisting I take the lighter packages upstairs and he will take the heavier ones. So? Is that sexist? Practical? Good manners?? In reality I think it's mannerly, thoughtful and realistic.

Well in the area of the South I live it is done to an excessive amount. It is also done with a much more "sexist" than I see it in many areas.

 

I think the ruralness of my community augments it a lot. Even if I go to a larger city in my state it isn't near as bad.

 

I open the door for ANYONE when it is more convenient for me to do so than them. If I see someone struggling to carry something I will offer help regardless of gender.

 

 

I remember growing up and I was around 6 or 7 years old. My moms muscle car had gotten some water thrown up into her air intake and killed the engine. My mom has rebuilt a good 50 motors in her lifetime and built this car from a junked 76 nova and rebuilt it with a 454 and supercharged and everything.

 

She pulls off and we get out since it stopped raining. My mom is showing me the inside of the car and what went wrong and everything. In less than 5 minutes there were a good 5 cars pulled over and at least 7 "manly men" trying to help my mom fix a car she knows more about than any of them.

 

I just remember my mom repeatedly telling these men that she was fine and to please leave. They were clogging up the area around the hood and neither her not myself could see anything, and she was wanting to teach me some stuff.

 

They wouldn't listen to her. They also couldn't believe that she would know what to do. Not a single one of them even seemed to have an ounce of automotive experience.

 

After one of them turned to me and put his hand on my shoulder and said something along the lines of "how about you go sit in your car and we will help this pretty little lady get her car fixed" my mom blew up on them. She called the cops and they had to send a dispatch out and 1 guy got put in the cop car for refusing to leave.

 

They just didn't even understand what they were doing wrong. I kept hearing them ask the cop "do you expect HER to fix her own car?"

 

I have a lifetime of examples of that stuff. It was first with my mom and sister. It is now with my wife and daughter.

 

I have hated chivalry for as long as I can remember.

[Batya33]

Well in the area of the South I live it is done to an excessive amount. It is also done with a much more "sexist" than I see it in many areas.

 

I think the ruralness of my community augments it a lot. Even if I go to a larger city in my state it isn't near as bad.

 

I open the door for ANYONE when it is more convenient for me to do so than them. If I see someone struggling to carry something I will offer help regardless of gender.

 

 

I remember growing up and I was around 6 or 7 years old. My moms muscle car had gotten some water thrown up into her air intake and killed the engine. My mom has rebuilt a good 50 motors in her lifetime and built this car from a junked 76 nova and rebuilt it with a 454 and supercharged and everything.

 

She pulls off and we get out since it stopped raining. My mom is showing me the inside of the car and what went wrong and everything. In less than 5 minutes there were a good 5 cars pulled over and at least 7 "manly men" trying to help my mom fix a car she knows more about than any of them.

 

I just remember my mom repeatedly telling these men that she was fine and to please leave. They were clogging up the area around the hood and neither her not myself could see anything, and she was wanting to teach me some stuff.

 

They wouldn't listen to her. They also couldn't believe that she would know what to do. Not a single one of them even seemed to have an ounce of automotive experience.

 

After one of them turned to me and put his hand on my shoulder and said something along the lines of "how about you go sit in your car and we will help this pretty little lady get her car fixed" my mom blew up on them. She called the cops and they had to send a dispatch out and 1 guy got put in the cop car for refusing to leave.

 

They just didn't even understand what they were doing wrong. I kept hearing them ask the cop "do you expect HER to fix her own car?"

 

I have a lifetime of examples of that stuff. It was first with my mom and sister. It is now with my wife and daughter.

 

I have hated chivalry for as long as I can remember.

 

I wouldn't call all those examples "chivalry" -the point of chivalry is good manners. It's not good manners to make rude comments about a woman (or anyone).

[thealchemist]

I wouldn't call all those examples "chivalry" -the point of chivalry is good manners. It's not good manners to make rude comments about a woman (or anyone).

In all the areas of the South I have lived that type of behavior is highly accepted and considered proper. It is all I have ever seen of "chivalry" throughout my entire life so it is what I call it.

 

I am also an admirer of histroy and the history and origins of chivalry also makes me question the morality of it.

 

I might add that those comments about my mom not knowing what she was doing was said outside of her earshot. It would have been considered uncouth to have said it in front of my mom. I overheard them using it as an excuse to the officer when they were questioned.

 

Thinking it and saying it when she wasn't around however would be thought of as acceptable socially though.

[Batya33]

To me chivalry is just a traditional short hand for when men do something polite for a woman. It’s like as a reflex if I hear a sneeze on the train I say “bless you” even though the stranger might not hear. I’ve also apologized to walls I’ve walked into. I understand your experiences were different. It’s kind of how I felt when one of my husband’s elderly relatives - a man- laughed out loud st me when I told him taking care of a baby all day/full time was a lot of work. I cut him slack because of his age butvsire sexism exists. It’s just that I’m not going to do a broad brush and assume that all men who feel more comfortable with traditional dating are sexist.