The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[annie24]

Big talk but not the actions to prove it. He doesn't have to marry you at this point, he just needs to drive down and see you consistently! So I really find his words not at all matching with his actions. I don't find that acceptable at all. How long until you get tired of this?

[lostlove76]

He got the two days off, but (and I'm really not trying to make excuses here) he wanted to combine his trip to see his parents while he's here. He said they would be gone about a week.

 

I really just don't understand why he would go so far as to ask me to marry him if he's not serious about this. I didn't bring it up, he did. I've never said anything at all about marriage to him, ever. No hints, nothing. It was the farthest thing from my mind. So why would he feel the need to bring it up twice in the same week, and actually say will you marry me. And then go on about how he wants to live the rest of his life with me.

 

I'm currently feeling freaked out over the dating site. I was feeling okay about the other for now, willing to be patient for a little longer. Maybe because I'm not 100% ready to leave tomorrow (or this week, or whatever). But the dating site is making me feel panicky. This is RIGHT AFTER all this other talk. Did he freak himself out?

 

The dating site is plenty of fish. Does anyone know if they send an alert email after a month offline to try to reel you back in?

 

Yes, Annie, I do get tired of this. But was trying to hold out a little longer. He says such deeply meaningful things about how much he loves me. I can understand him being scared to take the next step. I've pretty much made it clear to him that I don't want him to visit, I want him to take me back with him and us live together, and that I wouldn't tolerate anything less. So maybe he feels that just visiting isn't even an option.

[annie24]

Well, it's like my high school boyfriend I told you about - he always talked a big game - how he wanted to marry me, etc..... but then when it came down to it, wouldn't make the effort to even take me to a movie on a weekend. so.......

[lostlove76]

I know what it all looks like from the outside, and what everyone thinks I should do. But it's not easy to drop him when he's going on and on about how much he loves me. Every conversation, which always lasts 4-5 hours, he says he loves me and misses me probably 30 times. I'm not exaggerating. On and on and on about how he's never felt like this about anyone, doesn't get this close to people, misses the heck out of me, wants to be with me forever, says we're soulmates. And 10-15 times per convo, he'll say he's coming to get me and can't wait to see me, and wishes I was there with him right now, and he's absolutely ready for this.

 

Aside from all that, though... What should I do about the dating site login? Call him out on it? Wait and see if he gets on again? If he gets on again, I will drop him. But I don't know what to do in the meantime. I hate for him to know that I check it. Tonight would be a night he should call, so if he doesn't, I'll have to assume that he's freaked out again (dating site + not calling) and I really will have to gather the strength to put an end to all this.

[annie24]

What would you tell me or a friend to do if there's a guy who's saying he's going to marry her, but then he never visits her and goes on dating sites. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt (like he logged in because he was curious, not because he was looking for a new woman), what does it tell you that he's not coming to see you? On top of that, who proposes without a ring? Now mind you, I'm not saying this to be materialistic. But if a guy goes to the store, buys a ring (whether it's $25 or $25,000), plans a romantic date and pops the question, that's much more serious than a man's drunken ramblings over the phone. And don't sweep his alcoholism under the rug either.

 

I don't think you need to give him an ultimatum on the dating site because his other actions are so much worse......

[Batya33]

Watch the feet -what he does (or doesn't do) not the lips -what he says. Why are you giving him the privilege of 4-5 hours of your time if he is not giving you what you want?

 

Of course it's not easy when someone is whispering sweet nothings in your ear. It's also not easy to hug a phone.

[boltnrun]

"If he gets on again, I will drop him."

 

Sorry, but you've said this before about him not calling. Didn't you take him back before after you found him trolling dating sites? You won't drop him, I'm sure of it.

 

Words, words, words. All you get from him are words.

 

But it seems like words are enough to keep you tied to him. You love the way he talks to you, so matter what he does (or doesn't do), you remain attached to him.

 

If six months go by and he's still making empty promises covered up with pretty words, will you still remain? How many years of this are you willing to tolerate? Ten? Twenty? Fifty?

[lostlove76]

Thanks. I guess you guys are right.

 

It's just so hard. I was feeling kind of proud of myself for relaxing a bit and handling things a little better (not yet perfectly, but definitely better), and proud of him for calling more since it took such a loooong time for him to step it up in that regard. And the emotional intimacy between us just continues to deepen as time goes on. So I was thinking that maybe we're inching towards a resolution of him coming to get me. And the only reason I'm doubting everything right now is because of the stupid site login. I was probably going to give it a few more weeks, time for his parents to get back home, to see if he'll follow through. But I'm not going to stick around while he's logging into that site, even if it's just out of curiosity. Problem is, it'll take time to see if he's going to log in again. But like I said, if he doesn't call tonight, then I'll know it's because he's freaking out in general, and I can't go through that again.

[lostlove76]

"If he gets on again, I will drop him."

 

Sorry, but you've said this before about him not calling. Didn't you take him back before after you found him trolling dating sites?

 

The only time he's gotten on since I called him out on it was when I was refusing to answer the phone at one point (because he hadn't called for a few days) and I had texted him saying I was done. Then he got on. We cleared the air, and he didn't get on again.

 

Words, words, words. All you get from him are words.

 

But it seems like words are enough to keep you tied to him. You love the way he talks to you, so matter what he does (or doesn't do), you remain attached to him.

 

The words really get to me. You know the five languages of love? I haven't read the book, but I've googled it, and one of them is "words of affirmation." That's a top love language for both of us. He likes/needs words as much as I do. It fills us up and makes us feel good, makes us feel the love. So I can't discount the meaning and importance of words. It really does keep me attached to him.

 

If six months go by and he's still making empty promises covered up with pretty words, will you still remain? How many years of this are you willing to tolerate? Ten? Twenty? Fifty?

 

I don't know Honestly, I don't know when I'll have had enough, unless something specific happens to make me drop him (dating site, cheating, etc). I can't do this forever. But I don't know when the limit will come.

[Silverbirch]

The thing about asking women to marry them can sometimes be as Annie says, drunken ramblings. Guy I was with doesn't drink. I think it's partly just part of what they do when they are bored or whatever. They don't genuinely change. From time to time - just long enough to hook you in again - they will say what they know you want to hear.

[lostlove76]

I just don't see why they have to go that far with it. When he brought it up, I answered to the idea of it - "I would marry you." And he said "No, I'm not asking would you. I'm asking WILL you. I'm asking you right now - will you marry me?" I honestly didn't take it very seriously, because as you and Annie said, drunken ramblings and all. But you always hear that a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts. And I've read message boards where people said the guy asked drunkenly at first, and later asked for real and they did get married. So while I didn't take it seriously in terms of okay, we're getting married... it did make me feel like it's been on his mind, he's thought about it and wants it.

[boltnrun]

I'm pretty sure the writer of that book didn't intend for "words of affirmation" to be the ONLY means of showing love.

 

I think the presumption was that the two of you would actually spend time in the same place. And not 7 months ago.

 

But he's able to keep you holding on with words and nothing else. He can even break promises he made with those words and you still stay.

 

He has zero motivation to make any changes. Sure, he can call more often but that's not anything that requires much effort.

 

You seem to have a way to twist things to make them seem like everything is just fine. Like, saying a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts. Except, he's an addict. So it's not like he had a few once or twice. He's an alcoholic, which changes things quite a bit. But of course, you can choose to believe whatever you want.

 

You spend a lot of time defending this relationship and his actions (or lack thereof). So, what's the problem?

 

I can visualize this situation remaining exactly as it is for many, many years. If the way things are now are enough for you, again, what's the problem?

[annie24]

I just don't see why they have to go that far with it. When he brought it up, I answered to the idea of it - "I would marry you." And he said "No, I'm not asking would you. I'm asking WILL you. I'm asking you right now - will you marry me?" I honestly didn't take it very seriously, because as you and Annie said, drunken ramblings and all. But you always hear that a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts. And I've read message boards where people said the guy asked drunkenly at first, and later asked for real and they did get married. So while I didn't take it seriously in terms of okay, we're getting married... it did make me feel like it's been on his mind, he's thought about it and wants it.

 

again.... words need to be backed up by actions. He's talking about marrying you.... but when was the last time he drove down to see you for the weekend? Isn't that something a man who wants to marry a woman would do, regularly?!

[lostlove76]

It's not enough. There needs to be an end game. And he keeps INSISTING that we'll be together soon. Absolutely insisting.

[lostlove76]

Yes (in response to Annie - sorry, on my phone, can't easily quote). Except that I made it clear, over and over, that I won't tolerate just a visit. It has to be move in together or nothing.

[boltnrun]

It's not enough. There needs to be an end game. And he keeps INSISTING that we'll be together soon. Absolutely insisting.

 

How long has he been "insisting"? And, when exactly is "soon"?

[annie24]

Yes (in response to Annie - sorry, on my phone, can't easily quote). Except that I made it clear, over and over, that I won't tolerate just a visit. It has to be move in together or nothing.

 

Moving in together is a really big step!! But the fact that he isn't even taking the baby step of a weekend together doesn't bode well for the larger goal, see what I mean?

[lostlove76]

How long has he been "insisting"? And, when exactly is "soon"?

 

(Sorry for the inconsistency with quoting - I'm back and forth between laptop and phone.)

 

I know. We've been talking about this since December. And when he says soon, he always makes it sound like it will be next week.

 

Alright, so one more question then....

If this all stems from his fear of moving in together (and I know that's where it comes from. He said something about being poor and having nothing to offer me. His place is tiny. He values his independence (he didn't say this, I just know it). etc etc) Then what do you think will happen if/when I tell him I can't do this anymore, and I cut him off. Will he then realize what he's losing, and step it up and make it happen? Every time I try to end it, he calls and calls and calls and apologizes and sweet talks and calls himself an idiot. He's attached. I honestly think he wants it on some level, but is scared because of intimacy fears as well as practical reasons. So if he had to face not having me in his life - the person he says is without a doubt the one for him - what will he do??

[lostlove76]

Moving in together is a really big step!! But the fact that he isn't even taking the baby step of a weekend together doesn't bode well for the larger goal, see what I mean?

 

I totally see what you mean. I'm just explaining that I've made it near impossible for him to take a baby step of visiting. I told him many times that it's either move in together (no visits leading up to it) or nothing at all. In a normal situation, I'm sure that wouldn't be the best way to go. But I was trying to set boundaries. I didn't want something long distance. I wasn't going to be okay with seeing him once a month or less. We need to live in the same place. So he KNOWS that I wouldn't be okay with just a visit, because I've been so firm about that.

 

ETA: I don't believe I could handle seeing him for a weekend and then him going back home and it being a long time before seeing each other again. I've gotten used to not seeing him. If I spent time with him, it would hurt terribly when he left, and I would have to start the grieving process of losing him (physically losing him, for however long) all over again. So that's another reason I made it clear to him that I won't do visits.

[Silverbirch]

He might meet someone else, maybe on the dating site. The usual pattern is that they replace the objects of attention. The " commitmentphobe" in my life (maybe he just wasn't that into me) instigated that he was moving to be close to me. He was offered work up here, etc, and then made excuses how the work wouldn't turn out right for him even though he had various alternatives. They are time-wasters. As Annie says, look at their actions, not what they say. They will be break your heart over and over again.

[annie24]

So that's another reason I made it clear to him that I won't do visits.

 

that's... kind of weird. I mean, I totally get your reasoning, but maybe it's part of the reason why he hasn't moved in with you yet? You're asking for a really big jump without even... you know.... having him come up for the weekend so you can look at apartments together or something. I'm not sure I would take a man up on that offer either.

[boltnrun]

Again...he doesn't REALLY have to "change". Because every single other time he's been able to sweet talk you back.

 

So, you've taught him that even if you threaten to end the relationship all he has to do is tell you "I really, REALLY love you!!!!" over the phone for 5 hours and you are hooked right back in.

 

So no, I doubt he will "change" if you say you are ending it.

 

I'm with him...I know you don't want to let go because you believe this is a great, once in a lifetime love, and you will never be willing to give it up. Even if it remains a phone-only relationship for years and years.

[lostlove76]

He might meet someone else, maybe on the dating site. The usual pattern is that they replace the objects of attention. The " commitmentphobe" in my life (maybe he just wasn't that into me) instigated that he was moving to be close to me. He was offered work up here, etc, and then made excuses how the work wouldn't turn out right for him even though he had various alternatives. They are time-wasters. As Annie says, look at their actions, not what they say. They will be break your heart over and over again.

 

That's what I'm afraid of. However, he's had plenty of time and opportunity to find someone else, and yet he goes home alone and talks to me all night. He spends a lot of time at bars, where I'm sure there are loads of hot, single women. And he was on the dating site for a long time before I called him out on it. He's an extremely good-looking guy with a great personality, so he could find someone in a heartbeat. Which is part of why I worry SO much. But he says he doesn't want anyone else.

 

that's... kind of weird. I mean, I totally get your reasoning, but maybe it's part of the reason why he hasn't moved in with you yet? You're asking for a really big jump without even... you know.... having him come up for the weekend so you can look at apartments together or something. I'm not sure I would take a man up on that offer either.

 

I just know I can't handle it. Seeing him, and then losing him all over again. I know it doesn't sound very reasonable to insist on moving in together right away. Just to clarify, it would be me moving to his new city, into his current apartment, which is only one tiny room plus a tiny bathroom. He would come up here and visit with his parents and pick me up and take me back with him. That's what's been discussed.

 

So maybe you're right and that's what is holding him back. I'm sure, ya know? But I'm just afraid I can't handle it any other way. Also afraid he'll just continue with the visits periodically whenever it suits him, without ever taking the bigger step of living together.

[lostlove76]

Again...he doesn't REALLY have to "change". Because every single other time he's been able to sweet talk you back.

 

So, you've taught him that even if you threaten to end the relationship all he has to do is tell you "I really, REALLY love you!!!!" over the phone for 5 hours and you are hooked right back in.

 

So no, I doubt he will "change" if you say you are ending it.

 

I'm with him...I know you don't want to let go because you believe this is a great, once in a lifetime love, and you will never be willing to give it up. Even if it remains a phone-only relationship for years and years.

 

I totally get what you're saying, and honestly, I don't even trust myself when I say I'm going to drop him. Because I really don't WANT to give him up, and it feels like our phone/emotional connection is better than not having him at all. That's what keeps me hanging on. However, I know I can't do this forever. It sucks, it hurts, to have to miss him all the freaking time.

 

He would only believe I was serious about ending it if I were able to go NC for several weeks. At that point, if I were able to do that, I don't know what he'd do. Give up, or step it up??

[boltnrun]

I don't know either.

 

But at this point I really don't have much confidence that you will go no contact for several weeks. He'll call and leave you messages saying he really loves you so much and he's coming to get you NEXT WEEK!!! and you'll be happy again. Until the next time he gets drunk and doesn't call, or he logs on to a dating site, or he gets a new female coworker or whatever it is. Then the anxiety will start all over again.

 

Personally, the whole thing sounds exhausting to me. But if you'd rather have what you have now than nothing at all, that means he holds all the cards. And he always will.