The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[boltnrun]

Your boundaries are constantly shifting.

 

First, you said "if he doesn't call tonight, I'm done". Then it was "I do not tolerate cheating and I consider going on dating sites cheating. If he goes on dating sites, I'm done". Now it's "If he doesn't come get me on Wednesday, I'm done".

 

He knows darn well you're not "done". Like him, you say a lot of words but don't follow through.

 

He won't show up Wednesday, you'll get upset, then you'll take him back. It's a guarantee.

 

BUT, you defend him every single time. Which makes me wonder what the problem is. He gets what he wants, you're apparently getting what you want.

[lostlove76]

Yess, my boundaries do shift constantly. I've never been good at setting boundaries. I don't even know how. If it's someone I don't care a whole lot about and could do without, then eventually I do just drop them after allowing them to take advantage for a while. I let resentment build up at the same time as trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but then suddenly I'm just done and there is no turning back. With him, I try to create rigid boundaries, but I don't really want to lose him (as much as I try to convince myself that I need to), so I'm back and forth. You're right: he knows this, I know this. There are consequences when a boundary is crossed, because he doesn't get to talk to me for a while and things aren't pleasant, but I've been unable to drop him completely. If someone could please explain to me how exactly one is supposed to set boundaries in a way that doesn't include having to walk away, I would be most appreciative! What do you DO when someone is taking advantage? What CAN you do other than dropping them? Maybe I need to read some books about it or something, because it's always been a problem for me, and I'm clueless on how to go about it.

 

I'm sure you're right about Wednesday. I tried to feel, and sound, as serious about it as I could. But I can already see myself letting it slide yet again.

[missmarple]

What do you DO when someone is taking advantage? What CAN you do other than dropping them?

 

The only thing you've been doing...apart from complaining.

 

Which is..nothing until HE decides to drop YOU.

[lostlove76]

The only thing you've been doing...apart from complaining.

 

Which is..nothing until HE decides to drop YOU.

 

I'm not sure I understand. I was asking what should I be doing differently? You're saying there's nothing that can be done?

 

And honestly, I don't think he'll ever drop me. He's attached. He does love me, I have no doubt (except when I talk myself into believing that he doesn't). And every time I try to drop him, he persists and persists until we're good again. I do have a great fear that he'll drop me, but at the same time, I know that he won't... if that makes any sense at all. Just like I'm sure he knows I won't drop him, like bolt was saying. We've been going through all this for two years, we've both tried to drop each other (me more than him, but he's done it too, though it was long ago), and neither of us can make it stick.

 

ETA:

That sounds like I'm defending him again, sigh. That's not my intention. We really do love each other. We both just have some issues, and I'm not saying that lightly, because these issues are causing huge problems.

[boltnrun]

He doesn't get to talk to you for a bit?? Wasn't it like two days? And doesn't he sometimes choose not to call you for longer than two days anyway?

 

Those are not "consequences". He has you pegged. You will not stop talking to him longer than a day or two and he knows it. And he also knows that even though you say you're done if he doesn't come get you on Wednesday, the most you will do is send a couple of hurt texts and not answer the phone for a day or two, then you'll be right back, blaming yourself for whatever went wrong and going back on your word.

 

This relationship is a win-win for him. For you? You say you are getting exactly what you want. You say you're fine with a phone-only relationship. So from where I sit, the only problem I see is when you get yourself all worked up for nothing, because no matter what he does you will always take him back.

 

As long as your only goal is to keep this phone relationship going at any cost, pretending to set boundaries is just a waste of time. Boundaries only work if you care about yourself more than you care about staying attached to someone who puts in the bare minimum of effort and who gives you a bunch of words but no action.

[lostlove76]

I'm really NOT okay with the phone-only relationship. I just go back and forth on whether it's better than nothing, because it does give me a lot of what I need - fun/interesting conversations, feelings of love, etc etc blah blah blah. I need to be with him in person. But I go back and forth on that too. I think we both want it, but I also think neither of us is completely ready. So what can be done about that?? Wait until we're more ready? Take the leap and do it anyway? This is most definitely not an excuse when I say this - we're both nervous and scared. It's a HUUUUUUUGE step. What would you do if you were in love with someone, but you lived four hours apart, and circumstances made it difficult to close the location gap? Just hypothetically, without all these other problems, what would yourself do? Drop the person completely? I've never been in a LDR before, and it sucks. I would never have signed up for this. I was just already in love before he moved. We both tried to drop it after he left, but we missed each other, and now it's turned into this. It feels like there is absolutely no good solution, and I'm trying to choose between the lesser of all crappy options.

 

Your last paragraph about boundaries makes total sense, thank you!

[boltnrun]

What needs to be done for him to be "ready"? What "circumstances"? Are you talking about his drinking problem? I remember you said that he often chooses to get drunk instead of come get you. So, are you waiting for him to stop being an alcoholic? He CHOOSES to stay away from you, it's not "circumstances".

 

I mentioned before I don't buy the "he's SCARED!!". What he's probably scared of is not being able to get drunk when he wants to. You also said he bailed out of his previous relationship with no warning for weeks. Probably because he wanted to go on a bender and didn't want anyone giving him a hard time about it.

 

What would I do? I wouldn't have done any of this. The minute he started giving me BS excuses and breaking promises I would have been out of there.

 

Whether you think so or not, you DID sign up for this. It's been 7 months, you can't say you don't know what you're in for anymore. You're choosing to stay in this situation and it will go on EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as long as you allow it to.

[lostlove76]

Just to add one more thing, about consequences, as I sit here procrastinating on some cleaning and laundry I need to be doing...

 

I do think it's gradually working. I guess it was about a month and a half ago the last time I didn't talk to him for about a week - I don't remember exactly, but something like that. I don't even remember anymore what made me upset at the time. The dating site? I don't know. Anyways, after that, he definitely stepped things up. He dropped his weird pattern/restriction of never calling two days in a row. Several times he's called more than that in a row, one week he called five in a row. He hasn't gone more than three days without calling, and that was only twice I think. He hasn't done a major pull-back. He's been calling earlier, and texting before he gets home to make sure I'm awake and able to talk. Not perfect by any means, but for him, that's major improvement. The improvement wouldn't have happened without that week of my refusing to talk to him, or whatever it was. It did have an affect.

[lostlove76]

What needs to be done for him to be "ready"? What "circumstances"? Are you talking about his drinking problem? I remember you said that he often chooses to get drunk instead of come get you. So, are you waiting for him to stop being an alcoholic? He CHOOSES to stay away from you, it's not "circumstances".

 

I mentioned before I don't buy the "he's SCARED!!". What he's probably scared of is not being able to get drunk when he wants to. You also said he bailed out of his previous relationship with no warning for weeks. Probably because he wanted to go on a bender and didn't want anyone giving him a hard time about it.

 

What would I do? I wouldn't have done any of this. The minute he started giving me BS excuses and breaking promises I would have been out of there.

 

Whether you think so or not, you DID sign up for this. It's been 7 months, you can't say you don't know what you're in for anymore. You're choosing to stay in this situation and it will go on EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as long as you allow it to.

 

By circumstances, what I mean is...

He lives in a tiny room with a tiny bathroom. Not a one-bedroom apartment, with a kitchen and living room. One room, period, plus the bathroom. It's not a two-person place, by any means. He doesn't make a lot of money, so can't get a different place. I will be going there with no job lined up. I have a little money saved, but it won't last long. Getting a job will be a problem, unless he can get me one where he works... sometimes he says he definitely can, and then sometimes he's more realistic and says he can try. It's not a guarantee. He's used to having his own space, so that will be a major adjustment. These are the types of issues I'm thinking of when I say he's nervous/scared, as well as intimacy issues. I'm scared myself because I'll be four hours away from family and the only place I've ever lived. I do worry about getting a job (it's a small place with only a couple of job markets, neither of which I would be good at AT ALL). The job he may be able to get me would be perfect for me, but working at the same place could cause problems. It would be a lot easier if we both had more money, if he lived in a bigger place or if we could afford to get a bigger place together, etc. Which still leaves the intimacy issues, but the practical issues are a major problem right?

 

I meant I didn't sign up for it in terms of starting the relationship with someone who lived long-distance. I know I chose to continue it after he moved, even though I had said that I wouldn't do it.

 

He doesn't have to hide his drinking from me, but perhaps he's ashamed/embarrassed of it. He was talking about it last night for a bit. But he doesn't have to hide it from me, nor choose between that and me. I've never given him a hard time about it, ever. (yes, I know that makes me an enabler)

 

Anyways, just clarifying some things! And still procrastinating!

[Silverbirch]

Omg, do you REALLY want to move 4 hours from your family for THAT??

[boltnrun]

Omg, do you REALLY want to move 4 hours from your family for THAT??

 

I don't think she really does, which is why this continues.

 

I see you complaining about the relationship, then defending it. You complain about him, then defend him. You complain that he promises to come get you but doesn't follow through, then you give a bunch of reasons defending why he "can't" come get you. And you get all upset when he goes on dating sites/doesn't call/breaks promises, yet you accept all of this behavior (after "fussing" at him for a day or so) and ALWAYS go back. You set boundaries, then let him go crashing through them with no consequences.

 

It seems to me that you just want this, whatever "this" is. I guess to you a phone-only relationship is better than no relationship at all.

[lostlove76]

I want HIM. I don't look forward to the place I would be moving. But I'm willing to give it a try, at least. It will either be awesome or it will suck, but at least I'll know. When he lived here, things were awesome with us every single second of every single time we were together. It was perfect, all the time we spent together in person. The times in between were, for me, about like what I've been going through now. But while together in person, it was nothing but sweetness and fun and mutual respect and thoughtfulness and undivided attention and loving affection (and remember that for the six months before he moved, we were together just about every other evening/night, so we spent A LOT of quality time together) . I just can't stress that enough, because it's what I miss, and it's what I want back, and it's why I'm willing to uproot myself and at least go TRY it. I don't like change, so I would never choose to move there if not for him. I can think of all kinds of reasons not to. But what if I do like it? I wish I could say more about it, but I'm trying to keep personal details off here. There are good things, and things that might not fit. However, I won't know til I'm there, because I've never been there before.

 

I get what you're saying, bolt, and why you think that I must want this. Because I keep doing the same thing over and over with him, and I stick with it even after I've tried to drop it. I want what we have, plus more. I DO enjoy the phone calls. They make me feel really really good. I do enjoy our connection and conversations and all the love talk. It feels amazing. (And ya know what, just something interesting to note: I normally absolutely HAAAATE talking on the phone. I avoid phone calls like the plague. But with him, it's 5 hours of pure bliss, unless I'm upset with him). So yeah, I'm having a really hard time giving all that up. But that's doesn't mean that I don't want more

[annie24]

To be honest with you, I think you need to focus on getting your own life together. That is, finding a permanent job, going back to school or getting a certificate if necessary, and saving up enough money so you can move out of your parents' place and move into your own. And go to therapy so you can get your anxiety under control and start driving again. You're an adult, you need to get your life together. I think you're attracted to this man who doesn't have his life together and you don't either, but I don't think that moving in with him is going to solve any problems - if anything, you'll both have more problems. Try to get to a stable place in your life, save up money, so you can be independent. Then worry about a relationship.

[lostlove76]

To be honest with you, I think you need to focus on getting your own life together. That is, finding a permanent job, going back to school or getting a certificate if necessary, and saving up enough money so you can move out of your parents' place and move into your own. And go to therapy so you can get your anxiety under control and start driving again. You're an adult, you need to get your life together. I think you're attracted to this man who doesn't have his life together and you don't either, but I don't think that moving in with him is going to solve any problems - if anything, you'll both have more problems. Try to get to a stable place in your life, save up money, so you can be independent. Then worry about a relationship.

 

Makes sense. Part of me thought this might be the push I need to get out of this stagnant place I've gotten myself into. Nothing is pushing me to change. I rely on my parents for a lot. Fear holds me back from wanting to do anything. So I thought this would kind of force me into independence, because I would basically be on my own (yet with him). I thought it might be a catalyst for change. Necessity-is-the-mother-of-invention type of thing. I could be wrong, and it could totally backfire because I couldn't handle it. But that's what I was thinking/hoping for.....

 

ETA:

I really don't mean to debate everything you guys are saying. I'm not trying to discount any of it. I do have a really bad habit of arguing the other side, and overanalyzing every single detail of every single thing, and typing every thought in my head and then some. Sorry! I hear all that is being said, and I'm considering it, even if I do immediately jump to defending the opposite viewpoint. Promise.

[boltnrun]

So you're currently dealing with substance abuse, broken promises and him going on dating sites. And that's just with a phone relationship.

 

Do you think all of this will go away if you move in with him?

[annie24]

I used to live in a place like his (a studio apartment) and I can tell you it is small. I would not let someone move into a studio with me, especially if they didn't have a job or money saved up. I don't know what your guy is thinking, but that's what I would be thinking. It would be different if someone wanted to move in with me, and they could carry half the rent, so we could get a 1 or 2-bedroom apartment together.

[lostlove76]

I used to live in a place like his (a studio apartment) and I can tell you it is small. I would not let someone move into a studio with me, especially if they didn't have a job or money saved up. I don't know what your guy is thinking, but that's what I would be thinking. It would be different if someone wanted to move in with me, and they could carry half the rent, so we could get a 1 or 2-bedroom apartment together.

 

I've never lived in one, but I can imagine. That helps to know your experience/opinion. So okay, this could very well be a large and legitimate reason that he's holding back, right? He's mentioned the job thing many times, and he's mentioned many times the size of his place. I guess since he's told me that he could get me a job, I was counting on that. I have some money saved up, but not enough for a new place, or to pay half the rent immediately. And apartments are hard to come by where he lives.

 

So when I bring this stuff up, it's not just making excuses for him. These things are actually legitimate concerns.

 

Bolt, I was just sitting here (as I still procrastinate) thinking about how you keep saying I must want this. Maybe there is some truth in that, subconsciously. I have intimacy fears too. This right now is comfortable to me. The thought of awkward moments, cramped up in that small room together, is one thing that's scary. We're both introverts. What if one or both of us is in a solitary mood, and it comes across to the other as not wanting the other to be around? How do we reach a comfort level of seeing each other all the time? (those aren't questions to be answered, just an example of my thoughts). The awkwardness makes me nervous, and since he and I have similar personalities, I can imagine that he must worry about the same thing. My point is that while I do want more, maybe I'm scared to have it.

 

He has neighbors in his building that are a couple and live in what I would assume is a similarly-sized room. He said they fight all the time, she'll kick him out and he'll come back a couple of days later, etc. But they just got married, so it must work for them to some extent, huh?

[boltnrun]

Just because a couple is married doesn't mean their relationship is good or healthy.

 

Fighting all the time, kicking out...really? Not what I'd want.

[annie24]

In my opinion, the first thing you should do is save up as much money as you can. Get a part time job on top of your full time job. Do whatever, just save up enough money so you can move out on your own (not talking about splitting with him), but enough money so you'd be able to move out. I don't know where you live, what rent prices are like, etc... but you need to come up with a budget and how you're going to pay for things that your parents are currently taking care of.

[lostlove76]

Bolt: Me either. I was just saying they live in the same-sized space. And then I was saying that while they have their fights, they must really love each other because they just got married.

 

I'm not saying that unhealthy relationships are ideal or "okay," but seems like it's probably rare for everything to be perfect, with no conflicts and no obstacles to overcome. Otherwise, this site may not even exist! We're all kind of messed up in one way or another, and it affects our relationships. Does that mean we shouldn't have relationships until we completely get our acts together? Or does it mean that when we find someone we truly love, we should make every attempt to make it work? I know it takes two. But he's trying in his own ways, even though he does have big faults. I have big faults too.

 

Ironically, my parents have a pretty close-to-perfect relationship, so I've had a good model. And yet, here I am.

[boltnrun]

So you're currently dealing with substance abuse, broken promises and him going on dating sites. And that's just with a phone relationship.

 

Do you think all of this will go away if you move in with him?

 

I'm quoting my own post because this wasn't addressed. I'm curious to get your take on this question.

 

Are these things that should be overlooked when you love someone?

[lostlove76]

In my opinion, the first thing you should do is save up as much money as you can. Get a part time job on top of your full time job. Do whatever, just save up enough money so you can move out on your own (not talking about splitting with him), but enough money so you'd be able to move out. I don't know where you live, what rent prices are like, etc... but you need to come up with a budget and how you're going to pay for things that your parents are currently taking care of.

 

So if I did this, and in the meantime still stayed in the relationship with him as it is currently, am I not letting him get away something? Maybe I become too fixated on "If he loves me, he needs to come get me ASAP, because if he doesn't, it must mean he doesn't want me there and he's trying to take advantage of me in some way." I also worry that waiting too long will risk the relationship. And I simply just MISS him terribly. But I agree with you in that waiting would be more practical.

 

I hate this. If he hadn't moved, we'd still have some of the same problems I am sure, but everything would be sooo much easier and more clear. This big huge decision wouldn't even have to be made. I'm not cut out for long-distance, and if this with him ever does end, I am never ever EVER getting involved with anyone else who doesn't live here and is here to stay.

[annie24]

So if I did this, and in the meantime still stayed in the relationship with him as it is currently, am I not letting him get away something? Maybe I become too fixated on "If he loves me, he needs to come get me ASAP, because if he doesn't, it must mean he doesn't want me there and he's trying to take advantage of me in some way." I also worry that waiting too long will risk the relationship. And I simply just MISS him terribly. But I agree with you in that waiting would be more practical.

 

I hate this. If he hadn't moved, we'd still have some of the same problems I am sure, but everything would be sooo much easier and more clear. This big huge decision wouldn't even have to be made. I'm not cut out for long-distance, and if this with him ever does end, I am never ever EVER getting involved with anyone else who doesn't live here and is here to stay.

 

My suggestion isn't for a way to keep him or catch him or be single, it's as a suggestion for you to get your own life together, as an adult woman. Whether or not you two wind up together, you need to have a way of supporting yourself, be able to pay rent, and have savings.

[lostlove76]

I'm quoting my own post because this wasn't addressed. I'm curious to get your take on this question.

 

Are these things that should be overlooked when you love someone?

 

That question takes some thought. No, the dating sites are not to be overlooked. When he lived here and we became exclusive, he didn't get back on it at all except for one time during the whole six months (I'm just focusing on the time period after which we had the exclusivity conversation, because remember it took him a long time to even become okay with titles of bf/gf and all that, but we did get there and he hasn't had an issue with it since). I don't know why he did it. I called him out on it and he didn't get back on. Of course I don't know what sites he may be using that I don't know about, but anyone could say that. I've searched all the ones that you can search online, and haven't found him on any others. He's stayed off the one site for over a month now, immediately upon me calling him out on it, and has only gotten on Sunday (still don't know why) and Tuesday (said he was bored and couldn't call me because I didn't answer the phone the night before. He knew something was up. So I think he was acting out. I texted him when I saw it and he immediately got off and hasn't gotten back on since, thus far.) It's not okay with me. But what if it was just a stupid innocent moment of boredom? Like I said, I've done the same. I don't know how rigid to be about it. I wish I had a guy's opinion, since they seem to be the gender most likely to look at these things while in relationships. Girls do it too, but it seems really common among men, and they don't seem to place the same importance on it that we do. Maybe because they're scumbags. I don't know. But my dad is far from a scumbag, and he seems to sincerely think it's no big deal and not something to worry about. So I don't know???

 

Broken promises.... It's a problem, but only certain broken promises bother me. I myself have an extremely hard time following through with just about anything, so I understand it to some extent. I'm terrible at procrastinating and putting things off and saying I'm going to do something and then months pass and I still haven't done it. So I'm lenient on that, except for this whole coming to get me thing. If I was already there, other types of broken promises wouldn't bother me all that much. Because I'm the exact same way, so how can I judge?

 

Substance abuse... Should bother me but really doesn't. I care about his health and safety, but beyond that, I'm still having a hard time seeing the problem with it. He makes it to work on time. He's sweet and fun and affectionate and never has a critical word, unlike most alcoholics when they're drunk (seems like? those are the types you hear about most often). I realize that I'm naive and failing to see certain problems associated with it. But I love him, and I don't judge. Just like I hope he doesn't judge me for my anxiety.

[lostlove76]

My suggestion isn't for a way to keep him or catch him or be single, it's as a suggestion for you to get your own life together, as an adult woman. Whether or not you two wind up together, you need to have a way of supporting yourself, be able to pay rent, and have savings.

 

I know. I just can't help but be concerned about how it would affect things in the future with him. But I do know what you're saying, I really do get it, in terms of needing to be completely self-sufficient and financially stable.