The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[boltnrun]

Waiting until Thursday wasn't "weak". It was by design. He did this on purpose.

 

A voice mail or text? Really? That is no effort at all. It's just not. It's a super easy cop out.

 

He DOES know how to "fix things"! Wait a day or so, call you, let you make a fuss, keep repeating he loves you and he's coming to get you NEXT WEEK, and bingo! You take him back. It's worked how many times before? So yes, I'm sorry to say he has it down to a science. He really has no reason to believe this time will be any different.

 

However...I'm glad standing firm gives you a sense of strength. That is good! Standing up for yourself actually makes people respect you. Bowing down, giving in, taking him back because you "miss" him, overlooking lies and broken promises and dating site activity...those are signs of weakness that people like him will exploit. But holding your ground, that has a double bonus of making you strong AND making sure people know they are not permitted to take advantage of your feelings for them.

[lostlove76]

However...I'm glad standing firm gives you a sense of strength. That is good! Standing up for yourself actually makes people respect you. Bowing down, giving in, taking him back because you "miss" him, overlooking lies and broken promises and dating site activity...those are signs of weakness that people like him will exploit. But holding your ground, that has a double bonus of making you strong AND making sure people know they are not permitted to take advantage of your feelings for them.

 

Thanks Bolt!

 

He DOES know how to "fix things"! Wait a day or so, call you, let you make a fuss, keep repeating he loves you and he's coming to get you NEXT WEEK, and bingo! You take him back. It's worked how many times before? So yes, I'm sorry to say he has it down to a science. He really has no reason to believe this time will be any different.

 

Well, this time IS different, so I wonder how long it'll take him to realize that?

[kara025]

What if you blocked him and the only gesture he could show is...to come get you?

[ragdoll15]

"What if you blocked him and the only gesture he could show is...to come get you?"

 

That's what I was thinking too. If he truly loved her, he knows where to find her. Distance wouldn't be able to keep him away. Talk is cheap.

[lostlove76]

What if you blocked him and the only gesture he could show is...to come get you?

 

Won't it have the same effect, though, if I just don't answer? I don't think callers can tell if they're blocked, can they? I don't want to block him, though. It made me feel a lot better last night just knowing that he called. And I don't feel any possibility of my weakening at this point and answering the phone. If I start feeling weak, I'll reconsider.

 

The problem now is that this week was his last week with two days off for a while, because they lost an employee. So even IF he decided he wants to come get me (which I don't think will happen), do you think he would make an 8-hour round trip in one day? Do people do that kind of thing if it's something important? I can't even imagine, since I hate driving. So I don't know if that's even a reasonable possibility?

 

At this point, I would be satisfied with regular visits. I used to think I didn't want that and couldn't handle it. But given the practical obstacles of moving in together, I would be okay with regular phone calls (as in almost every day) plus regular visits (maybe once a month, not every few months). But I can't see him making that effort, so it's not really an option.

[IAmFCA]

What if you blocked him and the only gesture he could show is...to come get you?

 

This thought pattern encourages others to ignore our signals. If I block someone, I do not want nor expect him to seek me out except perhaps through the postal service. If I create a boundary, I expect it to be respected. If I want you, I will let you know.

 

I am a big fan of playing straight, and letting go the gamers who can't figure out whether that works for them.

 

I don't this is about what can he do to prove his affection. It's about being done, as you say, LL.

 

BoltNRun, your ex may have loved you the only way he knew how; who cares. You didn't want him. I think sometimes we think love looks a certain way. In its purest form, yes. But there are many people who have found ways to accept dramatic flaws. In the case of a serial cheater, often the one he (if hetero M) comes home to takes comfort in knowing she is special, or some other thought pattern that allows her to compartmentalize the cheating as irrelevant to their connection.

 

And in a sense, maybe it is for some people. Doesn't mean they can't love or don't love

 

Jus a thought.

[boltnrun]

Nope, my ex didn't love me. He just got mad that I dumped him and he wanted to get me back to prove who REALLY had the upper hand. I will never accept multiple cheating, lying, verbal abuse, disrespect...I don't believe anyone who does that to someone "loves" them. And all that treatment sure didn't make me feel "special"!

 

Lostlove, yes, people do those things for people they love. Unfortunately, YOUR guy doesn't, but others do. My coworker and her fiance are hours apart due to temporary circumstances. They take turns every weekend making the 4 1/2 hour drive each way to spend two days together. And my friend's husband makes an 8 hour journey every other weekend from his job out of state because he cannot stand to be apart from her for more than two weeks.

 

However, you've taught this man that all he has to do is call you a few times a week and say pretty words and make promises (and break them) and you'll accept that.

 

Now you have the chance to let him know that it's no longer enough. Either he steps up and keeps those promises he makes, or he loses you. His choice.

[lostlove76]

I think sometimes we think love looks a certain way.

 

Right?? This is what I'm always thinking/saying. Just because he didn't act a certain way doesn't mean he didn't love me. I KNOW he loved me to the fullest of his capability, and that really meant a lot to me, because loving is a hard thing for him for whatever reasons.

 

I don't this is about what can he do to prove his affection. It's about being done, as you say, LL.

 

Now you have the chance to let him know that it's no longer enough. Either he steps up and keeps those promises he makes, or he loses you. His choice.

 

Exactly. I would never have just dropped him to make him prove his love. I tried soooo hard to be okay with things, for a long long looooooong time. I tried to wait it out, tried suggesting to him that I needed just a little more in order to feel secure. I just couldn't handle it. It was way too stressful and confusing and hurtful. So I had to be done. Do I really want it to be done forever?!? No, I don't. What I really want is for him to just step it up in certain ways, and if he could do that, and sustain it, I would love nothing more than to be with him. We could be really happy together if he wasn't so withholding. He knows it and I know it. He says I'm perfect for him, and I know he means that. So if he wants to be happy, and to put in the effort that would allow for that, then he knows where to find me. Hopefully he realizes that this wasn't a case of my losing interest or falling out of love or just getting mad and rashly ending it. Hopefully he's aware enough of what the actual problem is.

 

ETA: Thanks for the examples of people who drive to the ones they love, bolt. That shows that it can be done, and that other people do do it. I couldn't, because of my driving issues. And I don't know if he could, because of his drinking issues. But it's not an impossibility, apparently.

[annie24]

Please, a nice voicemail? I'm thinking more like roses and diamonds. Obviously, this guy isn't going to do it.

 

I read a dating book by JWOWW from the jersey shore (yeah, I know....) anyway, her book did have some good advice. She said if your boyfriend is only having sex with you once a month, you should start to wonder where his penis is the other 29 days..... He is on dating sites, after all........ And you haven't seen him in 7 months.

[lostlove76]

Lol @ the jwoww book ;-)

 

Yeah, I know. No telling what all he does there, or has done, that I'm not around to see. He always said he wouldn't lie to me (broken promises not included, apparently). I was always asking him if he cheated or was with anyone or talking to anyone or did anything, and he always said no and sounded sincere. I know that people can lie, obviously. Who knows. I will say that he has "issues" with sex when he gets too drunk, if you know what I mean, and he's always drunk. But again, who knows. Honestly, I don't want to know. I was always asking because I was ready to drop him the second I got any hint he had been with someone else. But right now, I don't even want to think about that or wonder or know.

 

Him showing up here would be what I need in order to take him seriously. When he asked me to marry him, and then brought it up in the next convo, I said show up at my door with a ring and I'll take it seriously. And he said okay I will. So hopefully he knows what needs to be done (not the ring part, but just coming here, period). Not that he would actually do it.

 

I just hate to think of us losing each other if his love really was there and he's just incapable of more. But he's not REALLY incapable, is he? There are many things he could have done so as not to have gotten to this point. Now, he pretty much has to come here because anything less will just seem like bs to me.

[annie24]

Him showing up here would be what I need in order to take him seriously. When he asked me to marry him, and then brought it up in the next convo, I said show up at my door with a ring and I'll take it seriously. And he said okay I will. So hopefully he knows what needs to be done (not the ring part, but just coming here, period). Not that he would actually do it.

 

The ring is important. I am serious. It's not about being a gold digger. You were right that he should show up at your door with a ring in hand. It's easy to say pretty words on the phone, but a man who has gone to the jewelry store and made a purchase like this (even if it's a small diamond!) is stating that his intentions are serious. Trust me, I'm not one of those women who's all about the flashy ring, a modest one is fine too. But he needs to show up with one in hand.

[ragdoll15]

This thought pattern encourages others to ignore our signals. If I block someone, I do not want nor expect him to seek me out except perhaps through the postal service. If I create a boundary, I expect it to be respected. If I want you, I will let you know.

 

ITIC, I think what Kara and I mean is that lostlove has already clearly defined what she wants from him. She wants commitment. And sticking around for him, enabling his laziness and lack of initiative isn't going to do it. When you can't convince a man to step up for what you need in a relationship (because you've already communicated and he's not budging), you cut out and leave him no choice but one: a show of commitment. No waffling, no games.

 

It's not ignoring signals perse. It's saying, yes I want you, but I can't have you, so I have to put down some very serious boundaries for my own healing. You can come back or not. But if you want to come back, after the damage you've done, you have to come back on my terms, and you have to prove that you're serious. That's all.

[Realitynut]

Great Post ragdoll. But unfortunately, guys like him will NEVER be ready....ring or no ring. He never will commit, and will always waffle. Never step up.He could even come back with a ring....say marry me now....and she might even move in with him...but he won't be there emotionally for her. He will be freaking out!

 

They're not commitment-phobes for NO REASON!

 

Course a miracle could always happen. He could quit drinking, not break his promises, call every day, come get her and find her a job, make a COMMITMENT....that would be nice.

 

Maybe I will win a million dollars, even tho I never bought a lotto ticket!

 

I'm sorry Lost Love....just feeling bitter tonight. I almost called him today. I was gonna say...funny how last Friday you took me out to eat and was crazy over me....by Sunday you hated me.

funny how that works.

 

Fortunately...I forgot my ph. at home. Whew. Close one.

[lostlove76]

Realitynut: Sorry you're feeling bitter. Don't call him! Make him call you, always.

 

Annie: I agree about the ring. It could be a $20 ring and I would love it. It's symbolic of commitment, which is important. I don't know why he even asked me to marry him in the first place though. On Monday night I got onto him for saying that and then making everything go to crap again, and he jumped in and said he's never ever getting married to anyone again and I would be a fool to marry him. So why'd he even bring it up, then?!? I mean geez. I never hinted at marriage. And we weren't in a bad place in which he was trying to win me back. Things were really close and good when he said it. Straight up said "WILL you marry me?" So annoying. I don't need to marry him. I just need him to be a good, committed boyfriend.

 

Ragdoll: Yes, exactly what you said. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[lostlove76]

I really don't think he's going to make any sort of gesture, so I need to be careful and not expect or fantasize about such.

 

One thing I'm worrying about:

Let's just say he did/does love me as much as he says. I know you guys don't believe it, but I do. So for the sake of argument, let's just say that he does. Will the way things ended cause him to lose that love? Or will it stick, if it's real? I don't want him to just think "screw it" and decide not to love me anymore because I forced the ending. I don't want him to think I was just being stubborn or unreasonable. Do you think he gets why I had to walk away? I explained it all very clearly to him one of the last times we talked (Thurs or Sun), and he listened and said he completely understood. If he does understand, and if he really does love me, will he feel the loss? I only ask because, of course, I do wish we could somehow end up working out.

[ragdoll15]

They're not commitment-phobes for NO REASON!

 

Course a miracle could always happen. He could quit drinking, not break his promises, call every day, come get her and find her a job, make a COMMITMENT....that would be nice.

 

Maybe I will win a million dollars, even tho I never bought a lotto ticket!

 

Realitynut, I love all of your posts. You just know how to write and make me laugh every time

 

Lostlove, I wouldn't spend any more time analyzing his capacity to love. If he's a commitment phobe, then the important part is that he's not ever going to provide the kind of love that YOU need. Like... ok here's a terrible example because it's not politically correct, but here we go...

 

Like, say you're dating a guy who's paralyzed. Head to toe. A complete vegetable. He can love you 100% and want you with all of his being, but he will never be able to GIVE you the love YOU need. People who sign DNRs do this because they don't want their loved ones to suffer. Now if he truly loves you, and he knows he can't give you what you want, then he needs to stop being a selfish dog and let you go. Keeping you on a string is making you suffer and you deserve better.

[Realitynut]

Amen Ragdoll! And thanks for the compliment. The ex and I use to txt funny crap all the time. Last Friday, as we were driving out to eat, I was talking about ugly vagina's. That someone on ENA a year or two ago said her bf said her vagina was ugly. So some member on here posted a link to 'pics of vagina's'.

 

Ugh. Made mine look pretty good!!! Anyway, he laughed and said....I can't believe we're talking about vagina's!

 

So...on to Lost Love.

 

Ok. So...you said he loves you. You believe him.

This is what I have to think about my now ex....if he loved me....would he do this to me:

 

 

If your ex loved you lostlove.....would he:

 

1. Lead you on with false promises....saying I love you...I will come get you....and then never do it.

 

2. Tell you that you can do better than him...he's no good for you. You could do better than him...blah, blah, blah

 

3. Will you marry me ...in one breath....and then say...I will never get married again.

 

4. Will only call you when he wants to...even tho you asked him to call you daily.

 

There might be many more...I just don't know your whole story, but what I do know IS....a man will NOT quit loving you because you got crabby at him and called him on all his lies! You don't just fall out of love, because your ex is telling you to step up to the plate....and deliver on his promises.

 

When a guy says you can do better than him...believe him (quote taken from half the ena members on here)

 

WHEN A GUY LOVES YOU....he will show that he loves you, and come GET YOU...and want to be WITH you.

 

If all else fails.....look at my signature.

[lostlove76]

Now if he truly loves you, and he knows he can't give you what you want, then he needs to stop being a selfish dog and let you go. Keeping you on a string is making you suffer and you deserve better.

 

I kind of felt like that's what he was trying to tell me Monday night When he was saying that he's a horrible person and I shouldn't ever talk to him again.

 

If he's a commitment phobe, then the important part is that he's not ever going to provide the kind of love that YOU need.

 

Everything I've read about commitment-phobia is in agreeance with you. I've always tried to be patient and make allowances for his commitment/intimacy issues, because I know he has them. But at some point, it seems like someone could just man up and do the right thing anyway, despite their issues. I don't know if that's possible, because when I compare it to my anxiety issues, I know that there are certain things I can't handle (like standing up in front of a room full of 100 people - ain't never gonna happen). But there are smaller things I could push myself on and get through it, and probably grow to be more comfortable with, if it was important enough (like standing up in front of 3 people and giving a speech, ha). I just feel like he could make improvements, and over time get more comfortable with things. I feel like most of it is just selfishness holding him back. The love he gave me when he was present (emotionally and/or physically) was above and beyond what I need and want. I just needed it more frequently. Seems doable to me. If he had just made some form of contact every day, I probably wouldn't have pushed the moving in together issue - or at least not yet.

[lostlove76]

Well said, Realitynut. Thanks!

 

I'm not sure I fully believe the "if he loved me, he would...." (although I did actually use that line against him many times). As I keep saying, I think there are things that hold people back from doing certain things. With him, some of it is commitment/intimacy fears, some of it is maybe the drinking, and some of it is pure selfishness. But I don't think it's a lack of love. They always say, "You always hurt the ones you love." We take people for granted, even if we really love them. We all do it. Unfortunately. That said, he should have done better, and not have done all those things you listed. It's still not okay.

 

what I do know IS....a man will NOT quit loving you because you got crabby at him and called him on all his lies! You don't just fall out of love, because your ex is telling you to step up to the plate....and deliver on his promises.

 

Thanks, this is what I needed to hear.

 

We say If a man identifies you as a priority, you will know. He will not let you wonder or wander.

 

Yep, yep, yep! Letting you wonder or wander = eventually losing you.

[lostlove76]

Well, here it is well past daylight and I wasn't able to sleep a wink, so thought I would write. On my phone, so please excuse any typos. And pleeeeease don't judge me for watching the dating site, as I'm about to speak of....

 

So just a quick recap: We ended things Monday night; I hung up on him and he tried calling back six times and I wouldn't answer. Tuesday night I saw he got on the dating site a couple times, no call. Wednesday, no call, no dating site. Thursday, no dating site, tried to call once and I didn't answer. No call Friday or Saturday, which I knew he wouldn't, because he works overnight shift. But both days/nights, he's been on the dating site A TON. And it's REALLY bothering me, because it makes it feel like I just meant nothing to him and he's looking for the next replacement. Part of me expected him to try to fix things, like he always does. And I thought since he tried calling Thursday night that he would soon try again. But he knows I'll see he's been on the site, and surely he knows that will ruin any chances of me taking him back. So he must really just not care, and he must be ready to move on. What I wanted, obviously, was him to come back and step it up and fix things with us. That's not why I ended it; I ended it because I simply couldn't take it anymore. But I was hoping that it would knock some sense into him, as well. Looks like that won't be happening, if he's searching for someone else, right?

 

I feel like I pushed him into looking for someone else, and we could still be together if I hadn't ended it. Yeah he got on twice, briefly, before I ended it, after staying off for over a month. But now he's on all the freaking time. And another thought I'm having is that this kind of shows he didn't have anyone lined up on the backburner like I was always paranoid about. I was always afraid he was talking to others. But if that were the case, then he wouldn't need to be spending so much time on the site right now searching for someone new to talk to, because he would already have someone or more than one to fall back on. So maybe I was wrong in distrusting him about that before. He told me he'd been good - and it looks like maybe he was. Or else he wouldn't need to scramble around and find someone new right now! Sorry if I keep repeating myself. I'm just typing out my thoughts and don't feel like editing it down.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on why he's suddenly on there so much? Is he trying to fill the void and not have to feel anything? He's done this several other times when I called things off, as well. He told me it was because I wouldn't answer the phone (so he figured I was done for good, I guess).

 

I'm worried he's going to find someone new immediately and forget all about me.

 

I know I did what I had to do by ending it. And we did end it, so obviously he's free to do whatever he wants. Just hurts

[notalady]

Because he's looking for the next replacement. If he finds nothing, he'll come back, if he does, you won't hear from him again. Shows just how much you matter.

[boltnrun]

You weren't "together". He's several hours away. You had a relationship with your phone.

 

So you could have continued accepting his lies and broken promises. That obviously wasn't making you happy, was it?

 

Yes, it's going to hurt. But continuing on with this non-relationship for ten more years would hurt more.

 

Please don't accept him back just to try to get him to stop going on dating sites.

[annie24]

Hon - You need to stop monitoring his dating site activity. It isn't going to do you any good. And please remember that he was on the dating site while you two were still "together." You didn't push him into anything.

[lostlove76]

Well my heart just dropped even farther He just added back to Facebook the girl he briefly dated after he moved there, when we were in NC for that six weeks. He sure did scramble around as fast as he possibly could to find a replacement. Now there's no hope at all of him coming back, because he'll just switch his attentions to her. I DID push him into this. For five months, even though he was on that site for part of it, he still stuck with me. I know it's hard to understand how we were "together" but we have a history, plus that five months was filled with so many I-love-you's. And now I'll never get to hear that again. If I hadn't dropped him, he wouldn't have gone back to her. He'd still be calling me. He told me that she was an idiot and that it didn't mean anything. But the fact that she's an idiot obviously doesn't matter, because less than a WEEK after we end, he's back with her. I guess all his frantic trolling on the dating site didn't turn up anything and he resorted to an old fling. Now he'll have someone to talk to and even hang out with, and he'll forget all about me.

 

I know you guys don't really believe in what we had. I've tried to explain it. It was real and it was deep, to both of us. And it just makes me feel ill to lose it.

 

I couldn't possibly ever trust him again now even if he did try to come back, because now he'll have her and who knows who else always waiting in the wings.

 

Is he going to give her more than he gave me?

[lostlove76]

Anyone I could talk to about this is still asleep, so I'm writing more here. I'm not being dramatic when I say that the pain feels almost unbearable, like I can hardly breathe. I knew I had to drop him, and I finally felt strong enough to do it. But now I don't feel strong at all. Just hurt. Within one week, he found a replacement. And they've been together before, so they already know each other and have some comfort level. I don't know what happened with them or why it ended before. Either she got fed up with him or he got tired of her, I'm sure. He and I, too, started out with six weeks together and then broke apart and came back together, and it turned into two years. So it could very well last with them, and probably will. I don't think I was prepared to let him go forever. I honestly thought he would keep trying to call, or think on it for a few weeks and come back more committed. Now that's not going to happen. She's down there, and she'll get all the things I haven't been getting - she'll get to hold him and touch him and look at his beautiful face. And he'll get that too, and he'll realize it's so much better than phone only. And he'll forget about me. Just like that.

 

I did push him into this. He wouldn't have gotten back in touch with her if I hadn't quit talking to him. He didn't for five months. And yeah he was on the dating site for some of the time we've been "back together" but obviously nothing stuck, whatever he was doing on there. He found someone else because I dropped him and I sounded serious about it this time. Didn't even take a full week.

 

He's been a part of my heart for two whole years. That's longer than I've ever stuck with anyone, ever. I loved him more than I've ever loved anyone. I connected with him more comfortably and more deeply than anyone, ever. And him with me, I know. His ex that he was on and off with for three years said he never talked about his feelings or their relationship. He didn't do all the I-love-you stuff with her. He told me he's never really loved anyone before me, and I believe that.

 

I know people don't understand. I probably wouldn't from the outside either. But I know what we had. Why would he have spent these five months on the phone with me, with all the love talk, if he didn't really feel it? He could EASILY have found someone else at any point. Look at now - it took him all of a week. There are tons of hot girls where he lives. Tons of single girls. Tons of girls on the dating site. This fling/ex/whatever that he is now apparently back with. But he didn't want any of them until I dropped him for good.

 

I guess I can't blame him. I told him I never wanted to talk to him again. I didn't answer when he did try to call. I sounded pretty serious when I told him it was over. He's always jumped right into the next thing when something ends, and that's what he did here. He can't be fully alone. I guess he got lonely and scrambled around to quickly fill the void with a replacement. It does make me feel like what we had meant nothing to him. Instead of trying his hardest to get it back, he's just onto the next. Of course, I gave him no indication that he could get it back.

 

So what now? I'm going to feel so empty without him being a part of my life. I guess I just have to be grateful for the love and time that we did have, accept that he was a complete jerk in many ways, and move forward without him. Find things to fill the hole he left. I've just never loved someone so much. I deeply LOVED him.

 

I have to realize too that I wasn't perfect by any means. I was constantly fussing at him and interrogating him about other girls and refusing to answer the phone and hanging up on him and sending horrible texts. I wouldn't have done those things if he hadn't made me feel so insecure, but I probably shouldn't have done most of it anyway.

 

It feels like someone died or something. It's that kind of pain. I've never in my almost 40 years had such a hard time getting over someone. Nothing ever even came close, in terms of either time or difficulty or sadness, in getting over anyone else. There's just something about him. He said we were soulmates, and that's how I felt too. I know he wasn't just saying these things (to what purpose would he? it's not like he was blowing in my ear for sex). We said we were meant to be together. He said forever. I think it was commitment issues that wouldn't allow him to take the next step.

 

I guess I have to think about what I really lost - the broken promises, the days not talking, the unanswered texts/calls, the constant worry about other girls, the emotional ups and downs, everything on his terms, not even getting to see him in person anymore with no solution in sight. That's why I had to end it. I need to not lose sight of that, just because he found someone else.