I'm sick of it. - Rant

[TMifune]

I can't take it anymore.

 

The inconsistency, the double standards, the passive aggression, the insults and the judgment.

 

In the last week I've been personally censured for defending an OP when someone started calling him names....apparently that's actually a more serious offense than the original name-calling.

 

If you look around...look at the threads where a woman complains about her bf / husband.....They're filled with labels. He's a:

 

Jerk

Douche,

Ahole,

Deadbeat,

Loser,

.

 

the list goes on.

 

You just don't hear that when the men complain. It's all:

 

We can't judge her experience

Maybe she just wasn't feeling it

Maybe she wanted out and didn't know how to tell you.

 

It's all naming calling for men and deflections of responsibility for women. Women make choices too, and it doesn't do them or anyone else any good to deny them the full weight of responsibility for those choices.

 

Oh, and apparently telling men it's okay for them not to reframe their experience as a man in terms of the way women experience things makes me a misogynist. That's another personal attack that will go completely unpunished. Perhaps unironically the exact same people who would deny men acceptance of their experience without first forcing it through a feminine filter demand that men accept the feminine experience from the unfiltered feminine perspective.

 

No attempt at understanding just name-calling the people who don't agree with you. How can you demand people accept you for who you are and then scream to high heaven at them for not fitting the mold you demand they fit?

 

I'm gonna go have a stress heartattack. Don't worry if that doesn't kill me I'll finish the job afterward. My humble apologies to the two or three judgmental, self-righteous women here who will forever mourn the opportunity to dance on my grave. I know how much you'd love to, but that says more about you than me.

[Cheetarah]

TMIFune -

 

I think you should take a hiatus from this forum, I'm serious. There is zero benefit to you getting yourself riled up over this. None. Unplug. I mean it. Do self-loving things and just take a break.

[Seraphim]

I agree there's nothing wrong with taking a break from something when it threatens your best interests .

[WithLove]

Friend - sounds like you're really stressed out, and I agree that it might be beneficial to take a break.

[ApocalypseDreams]

Dude,

 

I hear you. There are plenty of double standards on this forum. One particular double standard unrelated to yours is forcing me to leave.

 

I hate to say it, but I don't think this place is moderated as consistently as it use to be - which was one of this forum's strengths.

[Seymore]

The insults and judgments ARE way out of control. There's thoughtful advice and then there are just hurtful things. One poster here said something totally tactless to me a year or two ago that still stings when I think about it. And these posters are the same ones running around here, nose in the air, like their word is the gospel truth, when most likely they HAVEN'T been through anything close to similar as the poster, yet claim to know it all.

 

I'm tired of seeing people being attacked here.

[TMifune]

Yeah, I suppose it'll be nice to only have one voice telling me how worthless I am for a change. Walking away just feels like abandoning the people who are going to need someone to speak up for them.

[Jean-Luc]

I don't blame you. It's the same reason I don't come on here very often myself. The only reason I still stick around is because there are some threads and posters that I can at least somewhat relate to, but overall it just seems like a lot of the posters on here are just not really worth the time of day. I remember someone saying to me in a subliminal way one time that the "posters" on here reminded her of Elliot Rodger, after I and one or two other male posters tried saying that women should more or less give shy men more of a chance. She went on to say that instead of improving themselves they want women to treat them like children. There have been a few other instances that were just as bad, and have really put me right off from this forum for the most part.

 

One thing I think you have to understand is that most of the people that come on here are really no different from other people who go onto any other forum. They have issues and are bitter about their lives in some way so they hurl insults and try to start arguments sometimes. I find that a lot of people on this board don't want to take responsibility for somethings and instead just want to blame others for their miserable lives. It's not other people's responsibility to "put you in your place" or "teach you a lesson", which is really what it feels like most of the time on here. I think that also a lot of people are just kind of socially inept in their own way and really don't know how to go about saying things. I personally think that it's a mistake to go on a public internet forum and try to ask strangers what they think about personal things about you and your life. To me that's just asking for trouble.

[Cheetarah]

One thing I think you have to understand is that most of the people that come on here are really no different from other people who go onto any other forum. They have issues and are bitter about their lives in some way so they hurl insults and try to start arguments sometimes. I find that a lot of people on this board don't want to take responsibility for somethings and instead just want to blame others for their miserable lives. It's not other people's responsibility to "put you in your place" or "teach you a lesson", which is really what it feels like most of the time on here. I think that also a lot of people are just kind of socially inept in their own way and really don't know how to go about saying things. I personally think that it's a mistake to go on a public internet forum and try to ask strangers what they think about personal things about you and your life. To me that's just asking for trouble.

 

I agree with most of this. Especially it not being other people's responsibility to put you in your place, teach lessons or..Tell you what you NEED to hear. I am not sure who came up with the formula of what anyone 'needs' to hear or how it somehow became absolute.

 

I admit in the past on here a couple years ago, I made a very crotchety comment on a thread about people posting the same story and feeling like it's unique(that's what the thread was about). I thought about what I said shortly after and admitted that what I said was uncalled for and wrong - And that while maybe we have seen the same thing over and over, the experience is still very new, very personal and very unique for the person writing about it. And they shouldn't have to search threads to get their answer before posting, it's not a tech forum. Most, if not all people just want to feel heard and validated that their feelings exist. None of us have to agree on whether the feelings are 'called for', because while I may think it's insignificant, it isn't to them. And vice versa about issues I deal with.

 

I feel like this sort of creates a neverending circle, because I do not feel as kind and empathetic towards people on the forum as I did the first year or two. That irritates me about myself, so I opt to say nothing instead.

 

I wouldn't say it is necessarily a mistake to take to forums for advice, because I have certainly received good input over the years. But I do think that it's not really for the faint hearted, and if you feel too fragile it is better to speak to people in a safe/controlled environment(like with a good therapist, etc). I know I have been too fragile for some of the things I've put out here previously and some of the input really messed with me. I decided then the only place I would discuss it WAS in my therapist's office. I also realize that option doesn't come for people easily, due to finances or just having a difficult time finding a therapist they can mesh with. But, I just want to mention that crisis lines aren't just because you feel like a danger to yourself. They are for people in distress, and the trained volunteers use active listening as the main module of interaction. I have done this kind of volunteer work in the past and I can assure people that people call about MANY different things, and really a small fraction had suicidal ideation. Many just felt alone and like no one was listening to them. And that's what they're there for(and it helps). Just want to throw that out there for an alternative. And again, you might have to try it a couple times before you get someone who you feel is attentive or is understanding what you are saying, but that is the nature of it.

[John John]

TMI, I sort of understand your sentiment. That's partially why I've mostly stopped posting on this forums. I only talk to my very, very close friends and my therapist about my inner demons. Definitely not on here (I know I'd be laughed at by many on here, and I know by exactly which ones, too). This place was fun for a time for me, but not anymore. Maybe if I can contribute somehow and help others, I'll occasionally still post. But nothing about my personal life anymore.

 

I do feel that a good amount (not all) of the women on here are not as empathetic as they could be towards men's plights. As men, we're basically expected to be perfect (confident 24/7/365 from the second we're out of the womb until our dying breath, have a ton of money, have a perfect body, and of course, be tall, always tall...), and God forbid if we have any superficial preferences...we get tomatoes thrown at us! Some of the double standards on this forum are quite astounding, and they get even more hostile when we call them on it. There's a post right now of a guy having trouble attracting women. I might PM him. I'd post a response, but I'd get flamed and name-called. I'm more interested in what women do as opposed to what they say. And I think he needs to hear it. I know I wish I did when I was his age.

 

I'm working on a lot right now, for myself, and also trying to be more empathetic towards women's struggles. I genuinely believe that they have it easier overall in terms of dating in and of itself (they just really have to be decently attractive, many components of which they can control, and just show up - let's be real), but I understand that just because dating is easier for them, doesn't mean they have an easier time in finding a meaningful long-term relationship. I will give them that. And some of the women on here have been very compassionate and have actually given me advice that has stayed with me.

 

Us men are not nearly as picky and superficial as many of the women on here label us as. As long as she's a decent person and we enjoy her company and we find her overall attractive, she's a contender (at least for the medium-term, I would say, for most guys). We don't care about her confidence (not nearly to the extent that it's a requirement for us), her career, her salary, if she has an "edge" (eyeroll), how tall she is...

 

I could be totally wrong about this, but wasn't ENA originally a woman's site? I mean, if that is the case, it certainly seems like it at times.

[ApocalypseDreams]

Good post, John John.

 

I'm more interested in what women do as opposed to what they say. And I think he needs to hear it. I know I wish I did when I was his age.

 

I believe the OP was called a misogynist and told that he'd never find a girlfriend because he made this exact statement, which I think is a little bit unfair.

 

I think this statement is true for both sexes. You can tell infinitely more about a person's interest by their actions, not their words. In my own experience with women this is definitely true.

[WithLove]

And the silliness about it all is that women want both words and actions. We're pretty fickle creatures.

[Cheetarah]

Okay, no one wants to hold hands and sing kumbaya, I guess.

[WithLove]

Okay, no one wants to hold hands and sing kumbaya, I guess.

 

Says who??

[Cheetarah]

Says who??

 

*Reaches for WL's hand*

 

]

[WithLove]

*Grabs M's hand so we can swing him to the beat*

 

 

 

For real, though - I find myself being a lot harder on the women here than men. Maybe because I recognize a lot of issues they are going through, that I've gone through myself.

[Cheetarah]

*Grabs M's hand so we can swing him to the beat*

 

 

 

For real, though - I find myself being a lot harder on the women here than men. Maybe because I recognize a lot of issues they are going through, that I've gone through myself.

 

I think I do(or did), too. Sometimes I get so angry, but it's not really at them as it is hating to watch that struggle. Part of it brings up yucky feelings for me, and then just "ugh" at the fact that we all have to carve our own path..And you just feel helpless watching someone do things you know hurt you badly...You know?

[Seraphim]

EVERYONE on the planet has their own journey and their own difficulties and their own past. EVERYONE is here for some kind of support.

[WithLove]

I think I do(or did), too. Sometimes I get so angry, but it's not really at them as it is hating to watch that struggle. Part of it brings up yucky feelings for me, and then just "ugh" at the fact that we all have to carve our own path..And you just feel helpless watching someone do things you know hurt you badly...You know?

 

Not just that - but just reading that some women do exactly what I've been fighting against for my whole life (it feels). Being clingy, invading their partner's privacy, cheating after swearing they never would. I just don't have the patience for that. It's hard to justify it in my mind, when I try so hard to avoid that stereotype.

[John John]

From my standpoint, I don't think it's so much that the women here are harder on men than they are themselves. I think the issue has been (at least, at times with certain female posters) that women on here are sometimes dismissive of men's troubles, and are somewhat hypocritical in their advice. They'll complain there are no decent men out there and tell us "I just want a decent man who treats me right," but then in another thread straight up state they will not date a man that does not earn at least as much as she does, or isn't taller than her in her heels (or shorter than 5'9/5'10, the usual cutoff). I have seen some of the main female posters (these are women who are clearly educated, and usually give great advice) do this. Umm...ouch. It actually does hurt coming from them (whereas a tween/teenage/young 20s barely done with her Barbie dolls ranting about men under 6ft not being real man I just laugh at, because they're basically pathetic - but these women that I'm referring to are far from that).

 

And of course, the whole "bad boy" routine...a lot of women (notice I'm not saying "all") seem to love them, and can't say why (I have figured this out personally, so it affects me none anymore). I think older and/or more experienced women don't fall prey to the bad boy routine, but they still are somewhat attracted to them (or certain qualities they exude). And many of the women on here seem to be pretty wise in this regard (at least, the "regulars" I think of are). I would say, as a guy, if you're struggling with women, be very weary of womens' advice. Really consider what they are telling you and what they do/who they date themselves.

 

I also take issue with the double standards. Women seem to be freely able to be as vocal as they like about their long laundry list of must-haves for a man, some of them ultra superficial. But if we as men aren't attracted to fat women (and while some are truly medically obese, I believe that almost all overweight people can do something about their weight if they put in true effort) and say this, we are labeled as "superficial pigs." But the high heels or $alary litmus tests that many women employ aren't superficial? Yeah, ok.

 

I will qualify that none of the female posters in this actual thread are whom I'm referring to. This is more of a general statement.

[saluk]

I agree with some of what you are all saying. I am not very easily offended, so most of it just kind of brushes by me and I don't think about it. But if I were the one being attacked in threads I'm sure I would feel differently. People shouldn't be afraid of being personally attacked by stating their opinion.

 

One thing I see a lot of that really bothers me is that someone will ask a question which brings up a particular controversial issue. A responder then states their controversial viewpoint on that issue. It may relate to what the poster is going through, but it feels more like they are trying to convince the world to convert to their religion on that issue rather than help the poster. It can still be helpful to the poster at this point. But what happens next is what riles me up.

 

A day later, the original poster has posted once, to explain their story and ask for help. And there are 7 pages of regulars here still debating the controversial issue. Everyone has forgotten the OP, who usually has left the building at this point. People are calling each other names, bringing out the personal attacks, and having a religious war.

 

As a Christian, sometimes it's a little frustrating for me that there are rules against bringing in my religious viewpoint in my responses. If I were counseling people in real life there is a lot more I feel I could bring to the table. But I totally understand that rule, because bringing up religion on the internet is going to start a flame war. If I had created a forum like this I would have implemented the same rule. But relationships, different viewpoints on gender, family issues, sex - it seems these topics can also incite the same kind of fervor, and shut down people's empathy.

 

There is a nice way to say "I don't agree with your viewpoint but I know where you are coming from". Sometimes that happens. Sometimes not. Everyone would be better served to really make an effort to avoid personal attacks.

 

 

Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya...

[alli]

When I respond to a poster, I almost always direct my comments directly toward the OP. I might quote another poster's advice when I agree with them, but in the past year or two I never directly quote someone or insinuate that another poster is wrong when my thoughts for the OP are the opposite of theirs. I do this for several reasons.

 

1. Almost everything I post is opinion-based, which means that neither my advice nor that of someone else is right or wrong.

2. Getting into an argument detracts from the original post and kind of deprives them of the one thing they came here looking for.

3. Arguments online, unless done very respectfully and both people open to the opinions of others, will almost never be resolved with one person "seeing the light". People try to make comparisons between topics that make perfect sense on one side, but the other side feels like it's not a fair comparison at all and the argument continues. It's just pointless.

4. We don't all need to agree on everything. Hearing opposing viewpoints might actually help the OP to consider multiple perspectives on their issue and maybe even gain a better understanding than if we all gave the same advice.

5. Getting into arguments irritates me

 

I've found this strategy has worked pretty well for me and I haven't gotten into any disagreements that I have found upsetting. Then again, I'm not here a whole lot & haven't seen any threads recently where I felt like the OP was being "bashed" or needed to be stood up for.

 

I must have missed the threads that provoked this topic in the first place so I don't know if my strategy for avoiding conflict on this website applies here. I just thought I'd share it.