Boyfriend and I discuss moving in together

[abitbroken]

Ultimately, I do firmly believe that you don't truly know your partner before you've lived with them (why I'd never marry without cohabiting first), but there's plenty to learn outside of that.

 

marriage is about commitment - not about "well, I need to know if you can pick your socks up off the floor, first."

 

I lived with my first husband before marriage - before engagement or intention or talks of marriage - just "as a step" and I am not living with my boyfriend now - and we are planning on getting married. Not "yeah, we are someday" but we are actually going through the steps. In 2 years or more, you will have spent time with eachother's families, gone through negotiating how you spend the holidays and settling in to the relationship. At 8 months, you are not welcomed enough into the other person's family to see how it truly functions and more. When you are living as live-in, you can sort of keep parts of yourself away from the other person still - how you handle finances, etc, so its not a true picture of what married life will be like.

 

To answer the question more honestly - no, you don't know everything about your partner until you live with them - but I hope to never stop learning everything about my guy. Its not like "okay, I need to live with him for a few years so I learn everything about him. " No, I DON'T live with him for a few years so I can learn more about him without being so invested that I hesitate to leave if I decide he is not the one and try to subjugate my own needs. And I can maintain my freedom - and gradually include him more in my other affairs. When we both decide we are ready to commit (which we have), we take the steps to do so, and committing means that if he ends up being the hamper sock draper, its small beans. Besides, if you had spent the night or had been in his place unexpectedly or at a moment's notice, you know how he keeps house. its not a trial period.

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I do have a lot of experience in the matter and can tell you its much better the second time around not doing the "well, I have to live with you first". More learning starts as the RESULT of marriage.

[Moontiger]

Hey all, just wanted to say thank you for all of the replies. I'm carefully considering what people are saying (I've brought up several points raised here with my close friends I've been talking to). Bruce and I are going to have a nice long discussion about this over the weekend and I will give you guys a full update after that.

[Ms Darcy]

Hey all, just wanted to say thank you for all of the replies. I'm carefully considering what people are saying (I've brought up several points raised here with my close friends I've been talking to). Bruce and I are going to have a nice long discussion about this over the weekend and I will give you guys a full update after that.

 

Excellent! Good luck. Also, don't forget this question - Is the part-time job you got enough to cover expenses or will you keep needing to look for another job?

[Ms Darcy]

marriage is about commitment - not about "well, I need to know if you can pick your socks up off the floor, first."

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I do have a lot of experience in the matter and can tell you its much better the second time around not doing the "well, I have to live with you first". More learning starts as the RESULT of marriage.

 

Over the years, I have come to agree with this.

 

My husband and I moved in together after we got engaged. It was actually very drama free until we bought our current house (last year), moved into it, and started doing a lot more of the wedding planning. It was a stressful time and I wanted to do more work than he did in completing construction of a full bath in our basement/getting the house presentable and ready for the wedding when friends and family would be visiting the house. After the wedding (and honeymoon) back to the fun, stress and drama free environment. We may have a wrinkle or two here or there about cleaning, but we are pretty much on the same level so it's been nice.

 

We've talked about why moving in together before marriage. I wasn't sure at first and he basically said he's committed to me and he's committed to the relationship so we'll work through whatever. And that has been borne out. I truly think that the commitment is why it was so easy in the beginning ... because he was willing to compromise (as I was). It also gave us something to ground us when things got very stressful and I think a non-engaged couple would have seriously considered jumping ship.

[Batya33]

I feel the same as Ms. Darcy. And, in my case since we became new parents shortly after marrying living together would have set up false expectations if we were prone to them -living with a newborn is nothing like living together as an adult couple alone IMO (no we did not live together but given the drastic changes/adjustments plus the long periods of time we spent together without living together, I feel confident writing that!

[journeynow]

One thing that living together offers, is that it reveals if you can resolve the conflicts that arise when your "territories" are combined.

[j.man]

One thing that living together offers, is that it reveals if you can resolve the conflicts that arise when your "territories" are combined.

This is personally where I take the value from it. I don't care much about where the socks are left. I've long submitted to the fact that my girlfriend will always possess the uncanny ability to find a brand new spot for me to trip over her heels.

 

Even if you practically live together (having separate places but staying over most often), there's still an entirely different dynamic that comes with having the option of retreating to a space that's exclusively yours. There are the practical/household elements to be considered just as you would a roommate, but ultimately, you learn a lot about other things like how your partner deals with everyday stresses, how they wind down after a workday, how well they find the space both they and you need when there is no longer a space that's exclusively yours. So many things.

 

I'm not suggesting that I go into a live-in situation thinking, "OK, this is the proving grounds." I simply don't view marriage as an arbitrary switch you flip and suddenly people get real real. There are obviously milestones commonly associated with marriage (though it doesn't serve as a hard pre-requisite) such as large joint-investments and children that will test both partners' ability to stick with the plan hopefully worked out prior to the marriage. I'm just saying I'd never propose to someone I didn't have live-in experience with to make a direct-evidence supported decision.

[Batya33]

I think the reason the divorce rate is higher for people who live together first is because of unrealistic expectations based on living together.

 

I learned enough about "territories" by sharing space and keeping my own place -sure,you know you can go home but since we were long distance for quite awhile that was highly impractical . Also neither of us was that territorial so maybe that helped.

[IAmFCA]

Over the years, I have come to agree with this.

 

My husband and I moved in together after we got engaged. It was actually very drama free until we bought our current house (last year), moved into it, and started doing a lot more of the wedding planning. It was a stressful time and I wanted to do more work than he did in completing construction of a full bath in our basement/getting the house presentable and ready for the wedding when friends and family would be visiting the house. After the wedding (and honeymoon) back to the fun, stress and drama free environment. We may have a wrinkle or two here or there about cleaning, but we are pretty much on the same level so it's been nice.

 

We've talked about why moving in together before marriage. I wasn't sure at first and he basically said he's committed to me and he's committed to the relationship so we'll work through whatever. And that has been borne out. I truly think that the commitment is why it was so easy in the beginning ... because he was willing to compromise (as I was). It also gave us something to ground us when things got very stressful and I think a non-engaged couple would have seriously considered jumping ship.

 

Agree with this. It's about kindness and commitment.

 

I did not live together before hand, and it would not have helped. What freaked out my exH was commitment, and commitment wasn't real until it was. Living together would have been a false indicator.

[j.man]

Agree with this. It's about kindness and commitment.

 

I did not live together before hand, and it would not have helped. What freaked out my exH was commitment, and commitment wasn't real until it was. Living together would have been a false indicator.

I don't think it's a matter of cohabiting being a catch-all solution to ensuring a happy marriage in the future. If someone is deceptive / unrepresentative, you're likely bound to get burned regardless of the route.

[Fudgie]

I am curious, Batya, how does living together before marriage give unrealistic expectations? I mean, I know it would have for you because you and your hubby had a child after marriage but what if you compare no kid cohabitation with no kid married? Just curious.

[Batya33]

I am curious, Batya, how does living together before marriage give unrealistic expectations? I mean, I know it would have for you because you and your hubby had a child after marriage but what if you compare no kid cohabitation with no kid married? Just curious.

 

Because -this is part speculation of course -people expect the living together to show them what it will be like to live together in marriage. I think the marital commitment often changes the relationship (not for everyone, I get that!) and therefore changes the living together dynamic. I think it's fine if you can compartmentalize and not expect things to be similar to living together but that sounds kind of challenging!

[Fudgie]

How does a martial commitment change the live-in dynamic, when you take children out of the equation? Do people tend to act differently? If there are different expectations, what are they?

[Batya33]

So I am no expert having never lived with anyone and only been married one time, 7 yrs so far, but for me -and for many others I know/know of, exchanging marital vows/getting married changes the way you view each other - now it is "forever", now you've expressed vows and commitment to each other often in front of a religious figure (and/or in front of family/friends), now you're family to each other.

 

I also think it triggers more behaviors from other marriages you've experienced -parent/siblings, etc. At least, it might.

[Ms Darcy]

This is personally where I take the value from it. I don't care much about where the socks are left. I've long submitted to the fact that my girlfriend will always possess the uncanny ability to find a brand new spot for me to trip over her heels.

 

Even if you practically live together (having separate places but staying over most often), there's still an entirely different dynamic that comes with having the option of retreating to a space that's exclusively yours. There are the practical/household elements to be considered just as you would a roommate, but ultimately, you learn a lot about other things like how your partner deals with everyday stresses, how they wind down after a workday, how well they find the space both they and you need when there is no longer a space that's exclusively yours. So many things.

 

I'm not suggesting that I go into a live-in situation thinking, "OK, this is the proving grounds." I simply don't view marriage as an arbitrary switch you flip and suddenly people get real real. There are obviously milestones commonly associated with marriage (though it doesn't serve as a hard pre-requisite) such as large joint-investments and children that will test both partners' ability to stick with the plan hopefully worked out prior to the marriage. I'm just saying I'd never propose to someone I didn't have live-in experience with to make a direct-evidence supported decision.

 

I think your perspective is a perfectly valid one and I respect it completely.

 

I also think where people get in trouble is having different perspectives and expectations on what living together means.

 

I think what you describe in your second paragraph, again a very valid perspective about learning a lot about how your partner deals with various things, is important. To me, it is part of a very important, deliberative process to determine if marriage with this person is the right thing for you to do.

 

I actually shared this with my husband and he reminded me of a couple of other points that were very important. One, we went through months of pre-marital counseling. So, this gave us a chance to air issues, talk through things, and find strategies to ensure our communication is strong. Two, we were together for a long time and we had a few "trial runs" where we actually lived together for a while to get a sense of some of our styles. It wasn't an end-all type of things, but it was a jumping off point for some counseling discussions. So, by the time we got engaged, he and I both felt very comfortable that we were compatible, that our communication was strong enough to deal with some issues, and ultimately we were very committed to making things work.

Note: this is just an example of interest for this conversation and not meant to prove or disprove anything. I have a girlfriend who described the difference between living together and marriage. She lived with her boyfriend for three years and then they got married. She basically said that everything was very different after they got married in that they felt more like a team. Whereas before marriage, they split everything 50/50, afterwards they pooled their money. Whereas before marriage they both were working, after marriage he felt comfortable for her to leave her job - which she hated - and look for a new one. I thought those were interesting comments and I asked her why she thought it was different. And she said, well it feels like forever now.

[j.man]

I think your perspective is a perfectly valid one and I respect it completely.

 

I also think where people get in trouble is having different perspectives and expectations on what living together means.

 

I think what you describe in your second paragraph, again a very valid perspective about learning a lot about how your partner deals with various things, is important. To me, it is part of a very important, deliberative process to determine if marriage with this person is the right thing for you to do.

 

I actually shared this with my husband and he reminded me of a couple of other points that were very important. One, we went through months of pre-marital counseling. So, this gave us a chance to air issues, talk through things, and find strategies to ensure our communication is strong. Two, we were together for a long time and we had a few "trial runs" where we actually lived together for a while to get a sense of some of our styles. It wasn't an end-all type of things, but it was a jumping off point for some counseling discussions. So, by the time we got engaged, he and I both felt very comfortable that we were compatible, that our communication was strong enough to deal with some issues, and ultimately we were very committed to making things work.

Note: this is just an example of interest for this conversation and not meant to prove or disprove anything. I have a girlfriend who described the difference between living together and marriage. She lived with her boyfriend for three years and then they got married. She basically said that everything was very different after they got married in that they felt more like a team. Whereas before marriage, they split everything 50/50, afterwards they pooled their money. Whereas before marriage they both were working, after marriage he felt comfortable for her to leave her job - which she hated - and look for a new one. I thought those were interesting comments and I asked her why she thought it was different. And she said, well it feels like forever now.

I'm very glad you shared this. I think that pre-marriage counseling should be all but required, honestly. It's an incredibly smart and valuable investment. It's one I'll definitely be making.

 

I gotta clarify (not with you personally, Ms. Darcy) that I don't assume my way to be better than anyone else's. What I do disagree with is the idea of my experiencing my partners live-in personality is in some way detrimental in discovering more of who she is or that it's not as productive as it would be if I were to get married first. Promising to spend the rest of your life with someone is a gigantic leap of faith, and it's going to be just that whether or not you wait until afterward to co-habit. I can only assume that both marriages preceding and proceeding cohabitation have failed in relatively large numbers, so far from me to claim my method any better than anyone else's.

 

On an emotional level, marriage will mean different things to different people. I'm nothing but happy for your friend who felt her partnership strengthened by it. For some, it very well could be a flip of the switch. For others, every feeling of love and devotion they have was just as strong prior to stating the vows as they were after and the marriage basically serves as a formalization of the previously implicit or possibly even stated.

 

I do want to be careful and not generalize what marriage means to people. i may not have done a great job of doing so in the previous posts. The significance of the ceremony itself and how it changes the dynamic of the relationship and the people within it is going to be entirely contingent on the individual couple.

 

All I know is that, for me, I have a mother who is twice divorced and grandparents who haven't loved each other since they were about 25 but won't divorce because they're strict Catholics. Everyone builds their own perspectives from their own experiences and I've interpreted mine in a way that stresses my own value in pursuing the experience of marriage as a formalization or ratification of that which already exists between us. Who knows? Maybe i'll feel differently when I actually get married. I simply know a number of people who feel both ways about it, including my father (divorced from mother) who married his new wife a good 20 years, three kids, and two houses later.

[Fudgie]

That makes sense, Batya. I do treat family very differently than other people. Although in all of my relationships, I've never been able to see a partner as "family", they are a partner. That's probably why it's best for me to remain as I am.

 

And yes, j.man/Mrs. Darcy, I do think premarital counselling is great, both for those who are religious and those who are not. It seems like a very worthwhile investment to strengthen communication skills, learn how to "fight fair" and to identify potential problems and such. Also, it should be geared towards "Are we really right for each other?" and be very real/honest and a relationship that broke up during premarital counselling should be considered a bullet dodged. Better to break up before marriage than after, no one can argue that.

[IAmFCA]

Because -this is part speculation of course -people expect the living together to show them what it will be like to live together in marriage. I think the marital commitment often changes the relationship (not for everyone, I get that!) and therefore changes the living together dynamic. I think it's fine if you can compartmentalize and not expect things to be similar to living together but that sounds kind of challenging!

 

Friends of mine lived together for 10 years. Married and divorced in 1.

 

The commitment changed their delicate balance.

[j.man]

Friends of mine lived together for 10 years. Married and divorced in 1.

 

The commitment changed their delicate balance.

Or they discovered even marriage didn't make up for what they lacked after 10 years. But if they say the marriage is what did it, I can only take them at their word.

 

My point is that very often (I hesitate to say "just as" due to there being no concrete stats) marriages end because they in fact didn't change anything.

 

If marriage changes your live-in dynamic, it means nothing more than you having given it that weight, which of course there's nothing wrong with. Plenty of people lead into their marriages with the exact same dynamic as they maintain after. The intrinsic personal value of marriage lies entirely with the individual couple and not the title/ceremony itself.

[Moontiger]

Hi All,

 

So, Bruce and I had our talk and it was shorter than I expected because it turns out we were pretty much on the same page with almost everything. We discussed some of the things we were worried about, why we are doing things, and expectations for how house hold expenses will be divided. He brought up, and this is a quote, that there is no point in couples moving in together unless "They see their relationship going the distance." We also discussed that we did not want to move in together just because it is convienent. (I should mention here that my other living options would be renting a room somewhere or living with a married couple I know who offered me a room in their house) Basically what it comes down to is that we want to live together not because it is my only option, but because it is the option we want.

 

So that is where things stand. We are going to talk about anything that comes up as we go and are thinking about arranging a joint therapy session with one of our therapist. Going to start slowly moving my stuff over so we don't have to do it all at once at the end of the month.

 

Thank you for all the thoughts and opinions. It really did help me think this through.

[Batya33]

I'm glad you had this talk and it sounds like both of you are on the same page.

[Fudgie]

I think you are handling this in a great way, very carefully and thoughtfully.

[lostandhurt]

If everyone talked things out like you two this forum would have a lot less posts!!!

 

I am very happy for you.

 

Now what about the dog? You know the one that leaves a present outside the bedroom door every time you guys make love. Diaper perhaps?

 

Lost

[WithLove]

Really glad you had that talk and that you both decided on the same thing. I think a joint counseling session is a pretty cool idea. Maybe it'll help you guys discuss some long term plans, both as individuals and as a couple.

[Moontiger]

If everyone talked things out like you two this forum would have a lot less posts!!!

 

I am very happy for you.

 

Now what about the dog? You know the one that leaves a present outside the bedroom door every time you guys make love. Diaper perhaps?

 

Lost

 

Ah, yes, the dog. Well, a before they went back to his ex he and I discussed how to work on her anxiety. That's something we will have to discuss and work on in the coming weeks. They way I see it, me being around more will help her feel more comfortable with me and we plan on getting her more exercise to reduce her pent up energy.

 

As for talking things it out, it really help that we were seeing things the same way and we are both in therapy. Seriously, I think that is the key. If everyone on ENA was seeing a therapist once a week this site would be a ghost town! Lol.