Out with the old, in with the now

[mhowe]

The calculus of OLD.

 

To solve for love, take the first derivative and set it = to zero.

 

That's my understanding, anyway.

[WithLove]

I get impatient with Slushie. He gives you tidbits of affection, of attention, and each time he does, you reward him by keeping him in your life. But if he truly wanted you there, this behavior would be a constant - not sporadic.

[IAmFCA]

I get impatient with Slushie. He gives you tidbits of affection, of attention, and each time he does, you reward him by keeping him in your life. But if he truly wanted you there, this behavior would be a constant - not sporadic.

 

I get impatient too. How it seems to me is: There is nothing else to do until/unless he wants to become more available. I don't feel a need for further contact. We have not been in contact with each other since Sunday. As this is about whether he is interested in being more available, I will not be initiating. If he lets several days of no contact pass, that will be a change in pattern and will signal he is feeling similarly.

 

It is difficult to remain interested without more being put on the table. Whether he is interested in doing that is up to him. It has nothing to do with me, and so I do not concern myself with it.

[WithLove]

I think you need to draw the line on where you stand as far as what you want from him. He's hot and cold as far as initiating and being available; so you need to decide FOR YOU if you want have him in your life as a potential dating candidate, or just as a friend. Slushie melts enough for you to trick yourself into thinking you're seeing progress; but he is who he is, ITIC. If he wanted to be in your life as a significant other, he'd make damn sure to be there. I don't care how busy his life is: he would make time for you. If you're wanting him as a dating candidate, as you mentioned a few times, then you're going to have to accept that this is what he has to give. And it'll have to be enough for you.

 

And if you want to keep him in your life as a friend, that's fine too; but you have to remove him off your radar as dating material. No sexual/sensual texts. No cuddling. No kissing. Nothing sexual. You're just two people that are friends, and that's it. You're playing the field of OLD and possibly meeting a future date while you still have Slushie hovering in the background, and you're waiting to see if he'll melt more. That doesn't seem fair.

 

You seem to have a hard time letting go of men that were previously in your mind as dating potentials, even after that part fell through. You keep them in your life because you're hoping they will change enough to suit your needs; but it's doing a disservice to you. You deserve someone that has needs to meet yours - not someone that will inevitably have to change to give you what you want.

 

I hope you don't think I'm being too harsh. I am sorry if I am.

[IAmFCA]

I think you need to draw the line on where you stand as far as what you want from him. He's hot and cold as far as initiating and being available; so you need to decide FOR YOU if you want have him in your life as a potential dating candidate, or just as a friend. Slushie melts enough for you to trick yourself into thinking you're seeing progress; but he is who he is, ITIC. If he wanted to be in your life as a significant other, he'd make damn sure to be there. I don't care how busy his life is: he would make time for you. If you're wanting him as a dating candidate, as you mentioned a few times, then you're going to have to accept that this is what he has to give. And it'll have to be enough for you.

 

And if you want to keep him in your life as a friend, that's fine too; but you have to remove him off your radar as dating material. No sexual/sensual texts. No cuddling. No kissing. Nothing sexual. You're just two people that are friends, and that's it. You're playing the field of OLD and possibly meeting a future date while you still have Slushie hovering in the background, and you're waiting to see if he'll melt more. That doesn't seem fair.

 

You seem to have a hard time letting go of men that were previously in your mind as dating potentials, even after that part fell through. You keep them in your life because you're hoping they will change enough to suit your needs; but it's doing a disservice to you. You deserve someone that has needs to meet yours - not someone that will inevitably have to change to give you what you want.

 

I hope you don't think I'm being too harsh. I am sorry if I am.

 

 

He has never cited busy-ness as the obstacle to being in relationship. He has cited a slowness to invest in someone, he has described himself as being "at a different stage of recovery after divorce". Last week that shifted to "Since we were separated, I have been focused on finding my way back to myself. Now I am feeling like I really need to get my ish together." And yes, he has been inconsistent: it seems he holds himself back. One weekend was a string of invitations - a date night, a sleep over, an invite to go for a run together... (which I declined) - other times, its a Saturday night text at midnight to say goodnight, and nothing else till Sunday night.

 

You are right, I am keeping him around, or rather, letting him keep me around - actually, its gone both ways at different times. You also are right, I have a history of staying involved too long. For me, its "when does this stop being interesting"?

 

In Slushie, I am losing interest. I need More self-disclosure, more intentional plans. Without that, my learning curve goes flat, and that is where boredom comes in. AHA that is illuminating. It isn't about being his SO, etc. It is about KEEP MY MIND ENGAGED. Give me some more food to chew on. So there it is, right there. Keep on throwing me new meat, I will stick around to chew on it. Maybe that is part of the adverse pattern: a short-term response to NEW MEAT! that may be in conflict with a long-term goal of a stable, supportive, engaging relationship. Hmm, that is interesting: perhaps I need to be more strategic [... about whose meat I eat, but oh dear that has other connotations].

 

OK so restating my game plan: (1) I am not initiating contact. (2) If he initiates contact, and his contact is perpetuates the status quo, I will discuss the concept of self-disclosure/intentional plans. "There is so much I like and appreciate about you. At the same time, I find myself fading away.... I am looking for more consistency around self-disclosure and intentional scheduling. It is difficult to invest more without that."

 

Bolded the phrase to help me remember the specifics. That is about as concrete as I get, as you know!

[WithLove]

That sounds a lot like you saying "I'm still going to keep him around, as long as he tells me what I want to hear".

 

I think he's had many opportunities to begin something with you. I think he has reached maximum velocity, for him. I think he has given you your answers - "at a different stage of recovery after divorce" - "Since we were separated, I have been focused on finding my way back to myself. Now I am feeling like I really need to get my ish together". I think he's also keeping you around because you interest him, too. But at the end of the day - you're both still just playing games with each other.

 

You're a very resilient woman and I'm so jealous of that. I'm just trying to help you see that what you're getting from men like MWFW and Slushie - who may be very smart, handsome, and interesting men - their goals don't seem to resonate with yours.

[IAmFCA]

That sounds a lot like you saying "I'm still going to keep him around, as long as he tells me what I want to hear".

 

I think he's had many opportunities to begin something with you. I think he has reached maximum velocity, for him. I think he has given you your answers - "at a different stage of recovery after divorce" - "Since we were separated, I have been focused on finding my way back to myself. Now I am feeling like I really need to get my ish together". I think he's also keeping you around because you interest him, too. But at the end of the day - you're both still just playing games with each other.

 

You're a very resilient woman and I'm so jealous of that. I'm just trying to help you see that what you're getting from men like MWFW and Slushie - who may be very smart, handsome, and interesting men - their goals don't seem to resonate with yours.

 

 

Ha, MWFN. Lordy. Its feels good to have cut him off. When I passed him the other day, which I am increasingly convinced I did, I didn't even recognize him. No light in his eyes, no breadth to his shoulders. Not the same guy.

 

 

Slushie - yup.

 

 

So, what am I getting? Asking honestly... Convenience? Someone to think about? A hard set of abs to touch every now and again? (Or, WAS I getting, as the case may be.) Definitely convenience, definitely someone to think about. The abs... cherry on the ice cream sundae but if I felt more prurient, I would engage him more sexually than I do.

 

So is that it? Do I need to learn to have no one to think about?

[WithLove]

Not at all.

 

It's just that his goals don't seem to correlate with yours. If they did, you wouldn't be bothered by the things you've posted in here.

 

If you just wanted a connection every once in awhile - then what you have seems good. But what I'm getting is that you want more. You want to be somewhere on his priority list. And you're just not there.

 

I think you can build a connection and 'have someone to think about' with a man that makes you a priority. Doesn't have to be his first or even third. Just as long as you're somewhere on that list.

[IAmFCA]

Not at all.

 

It's just that his goals don't seem to correlate with yours. If they did, you wouldn't be bothered by the things you've posted in here.

 

If you just wanted a connection every once in awhile - then what you have seems good. But what I'm getting is that you want more. You want to be somewhere on his priority list. And you're just not there.

 

I think you can build a connection and 'have someone to think about' with a man that makes you a priority. Doesn't have to be his first or even third. Just as long as you're somewhere on that list.

 

 

That is true.

 

And at this point, he knows well enough about who I am to decide to come back around, should that become his interest at some point. I don't have much more to show him either; the rest would show itself only with time.

[IAmFCA]

I think that is why I am fading. I have nothing to achieve. If this is all I get, I have nothing else to work for and nothing further to invest.

[WithLove]

It's just when you get another glimmer of hope that something will give, that you have to be strong and not give in. I think he's wasting your time. Not maliciously. I just think you want more than he can give.

[IAmFCA]

It's just when you get another glimmer of hope that something will give, that you have to be strong and not give in. I think he's wasting your time. Not maliciously. I just think you want more than he can give.

 

 

I hear that.

 

I don't feel like I am giving in; but that's splitting hairs. I know what you mean.

 

I am more available, certainly, and have been wanting want more than he can give, certainly. What is striking to me is how that is ever less so.

[WithLove]

What do you mean, " What is striking to me is how that is ever less so"? (Maybe the vernacular is just not ringing a bell?)

[IAmFCA]

What do you mean, " What is striking to me is how that is ever less so"? (Maybe the vernacular is just not ringing a bell?)

 

I was initially so compelled to figure out what this is, isnt, how to manage it. Now, I'm less concerned about those things. I'd like a guy to take me out on the weekends, get excited about having me around, sure. When that guy shows up, I'll have my weekends free to go on a date - as free as they are now anyway. Whatever slushies purpose is, I don't know, and I am much less concerned about it.

 

And yes, I've already gotten the texts from him, telling me a little more than he usually does.

 

What did I do? I said, out of the blue and by text: "what should I do with you oh strategic one."

 

Oops. I've decided, oh what the heck. Maybe he'll answer my question with a joke, which is what he ought to do.

 

I'm so smooth.

[IAmFCA]

Ha he assumed I was referring to his business issue. Good dodge on his part. I'll take it.

[IAmFCA]

I asked slushie to call to keep me company on my trip. He was responsive, called when he said he would, gave me the soft darlin drawl, and said good night from under the covers. We talked about his house, and since we had that discussion the other night of him wanting to live elsewhere, he just tossed off without a care - "I'm here for six more years. I won't be here for longer than that."

 

Yall don't know a funny irony of mine... the city slushie and I agreed upon is the one city, the one place of all places including my home city, where there lives a man with whom I would choose to be physically intimate if the situation presents itself. I would choose nobody but slushie for that, if anyone at this moment... except for this one odd duck and loyal friend. Slushie says Would you live there? And I would, I quite like it. In my head, I am laughing. There are so many times when I am certain there is a god, and that God has a sharp sense of humor. This is one of those times.

 

Anyway... I will talk with Slushie when next appropriate. It isn't new to him. It seems to me a string of women have requested that he open up more, introduce them to his friends, permit drop-in visits, etc. It frustrates him; he knows he needs to open up more, but the granting of access into his life - for him, he is astounded that women expect this as soon as they do, that they expect emotion from him, that they expect to drop in unannounced. He shields his kids from his dating life and protects his boundaries. He has told me of one ex who made these complaints; that was months ago he told me. It is my inference that this has come up more recently in some way - other women, therapy, who knows. I haven't asked for any of it; he brings these topics up on his own. Enough that I can tease him about being guarded, and about not planning things (but I don't). So, he knows. I won't have to say much. I have much to compliment, and that is how it will go. One day in my distant future, I would like to have a standing date night, say, twice a month. I take one, he (whomever) takes one. Dates in between are open season.

 

Anyhow, rambling on to wind down... "move along, there is nothing to see here." Lol.

 

K. Meeting starts in 6 or 7 hours. Yippee!

[missmarple]

It seems to me a string of women have requested that he open up more, introduce them to his friends, permit drop-in visits, etc. It frustrates him; he knows he needs to open up more, but the granting of access into his life - for him, he is astounded that women expect this as soon as they do, that they expect emotion from him, that they expect to drop in unannounced.

 

Oh, the poor guy, I feel for him Really, ITIC, I'm surprised how you could hear all that with a straight face. This guy just sounds so full of himself!

[IAmFCA]

My other observation... slushie does not keep women around for very long, he lets them go gently, if his relaying of stories to me is a fair one, and sometimes they look to get back in the fold. He will let them back on a friend basis; what his personal life consists of is his private business so I don't claim this is the totality of it.

We sometimes share details of others who want to date us, when we find their behavior remarkable. Two of his exes have rekindled contact after extended no contact. It's funny... MWFN gave me the best sex of my life but I can't imagine wanting to create a connection with him, much less have a physical fling or sleep over at his house - as one of slushies exes wanted - ever again.

 

Slushies slow pace prevents the fun uptick of a budding romance and the quick snip of a broken one.

 

The slow pace thing continues to show its merits.

 

And yes, I still want weekend time, on a premeditated basis.

[IAmFCA]

Oh, the poor guy, I feel for him Really, ITIC, I'm surprised how you could hear all that with a straight face. This guy just sounds so full of himself!

 

Are you kidding me? He hears the same crap from me. I went on a date, 1 date in December, for lunch. A first meet. He texted me so many times after that I cancelled date no 2 and blocked his number. Slushie knows that story. First question he asked at dinner Friday was So, have you heard anything further... ? A person known to Slushie, MWFN, and me hit on me a few months ago... I think. Slushie knows that story too.

 

I dont think he is bragplaining. In fact, it made me wonder if he is clear when he ends things. Where we live, there are a lot of divorced or cheating (or open marriage) adults milling about, going out on weeknights and weekends both. This stuff happens. I don't think it reflects on either one of us. More, the environment we live in, where traditional values are often on display yet not practiced.

 

(Frankly, I figure this stuff happens everywhere... and to anyone who has been dating around for a few years. There's always a mix of people with no boundaries, and that makes for dramatic vignettes. Slushie is a control freak. For a woman to drop by his house unannounced would make him apoplectic.)

[missmarple]

Sure, someone may be the chasing type. BUT I've never had anyone insist I open up more, introduce them to my friends, permit drop-in visits, etc, etc just because I went on one or two dates with them.

I have only see that happen to men or women who string others along and aren't clear about what they want.

[IAmFCA]

Sure, someone may be the chasing type. BUT I've never had anyone insist I open up more, introduce them to my friends, permit drop-in visits, etc, etc just because I went on one or two dates with them.

I have only see that happen to men or women who string others along and aren't clear about what they want.

 

In at least one case, they dated only a month. This was just before meeting me last summer. He is much more cautious with his personal life, no question. He posts nothing on facebook; he sees his friends over dinners and not in large groups. He has been upfront with me about where he is emotionally; I expect the same is true of others. His pace reflects how guarded he is; words and actions are consistent. Most people wouldn't put up with it, and it also raises suspicion of dishonesty not to meet friends etc.... unless they want casual non sex sex, which i expect he would entertain.

 

OTOH yes, two exes have reached out to meet up with him... does that mean he left the door open? I'm sure he did, in that he tends to react moderately, not dramatically, and he permits friendship when they come back. And he'd have no reason to slam a door shut; why limit his options. I doubt he's irresponsible about it.

 

I've had exes come back to me as well, generally for a casual sex thing, not a rs.

 

He is too guarded. Women are right to want more. As WL pointed out, what is expected of him is beyond his capacity. As he pointed out to me, he is trying to increase his capacity. He has addressed this with me several times, adjusted in increments.

 

I don't need him to change. I don't attach to him as I might have and I don't look to him to fill bf shoes, or to be trYing to. I did, but I don't now.

 

He is keeping up an extended period of low intensity involvement. But he isn't insincere about it. No false future talk, no grand gestures. No false pretenses.

 

My interest level wavers as a result.

[IAmFCA]

/

[LoveSoDeep]

In at least one case, they dated only a month. This was just before meeting me last summer. He is much more cautious with his personal life, no question. He posts nothing on facebook; he sees his friends over dinners and not in large groups. He has been upfront with me about where he is emotionally; I expect the same is true of others. His pace reflects how guarded he is; words and actions are consistent. Most people wouldn't put up with it, and it also raises suspicion of dishonesty not to meet friends etc.... unless they want casual non sex sex, which i expect he would entertain.

 

OTOH yes, two exes have reached out to meet up with him... does that mean he left the door open? I'm sure he did, in that he tends to react moderately, not dramatically, and he permits friendship when they come back. And he'd have no reason to slam a door shut; why limit his options. I doubt he's irresponsible about it.

 

I've had exes come back to me as well, generally for a casual sex thing, not a rs.

 

He is too guarded. Women are right to want more. As WL pointed out, what is expected of him is beyond his capacity. As he pointed out to me, he is trying to increase his capacity. He has addressed this with me several times, adjusted in increments.

 

I don't need him to change. I don't attach to him as I might have and I don't look to him to fill bf shoes, or to be trYing to. I did, but I don't now.

 

He is keeping up an extended period of low intensity involvement. But he isn't insincere about it. No false future talk, no grand gestures. No false pretenses.

 

My interest level wavers as a result.

 

Asking to meet friends and be this much a part of someone's personal life after just one month of dating is a bit over the top I think. These are things that I would start thinking about about 2-3 months in. The fact that he is getting this type of request this early on speaks to his choices in women not being that great....except for you of course. These women were needy...he knows that's not his thing but he hasn't figured out how to consistently pick less needy women, like yourself.

[IAmFCA]

Asking to meet friends and be this much a part of someone's personal life after just one month of dating is a bit over the top I think. These are things that I would start thinking about about 2-3 months in. The fact that he is getting this type of request this early on speaks to his choices in women not being that great....except for you of course. These women were needy...he knows that's not his thing but he hasn't figured out how to consistently pick less needy women, like yourself.

 

Agree completely.

 

I sense he has been studying this about himself.

 

Example of recent text:

That's good because I am trying to be more open and warm - sometimes I really f that up

[Batya33]

Agree completely.

 

I sense he has been studying this about himself.

 

Example of recent text:

That's good because I am trying to be more open and warm - sometimes I really f that up

 

And that's the main issue - he "tries" rather than "doing" and on your end you settle for "try".