How many marriage are natural nowadays?

[IAmFCA]

Take a good long look at the physical tangible benefits and liabilities marriage has for a man and tell me again why this is all so surprising...

 

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Actually, good marriages are good for men's health.

[Lonewing]

Yes, but the odds of a bad marriage are higher than 50:50 [whereas not all bad marriages end in divorce], and there is nothing worse for a man's health than a divorce.

[ThatwasThen]

Yes, but the odds of a bad marriage are higher than 50:50 [whereas not all bad marriages end in divorce], and there is nothing worse for a man's health than a divorce.

 

Well, some have done it two or three times so for SOME men, it would seem that it's not so bad.

[Lonewing]

In the US it is true that the percentage of unmarried couples living together has increased, and the average age for marriage has gotten older.

 

In some ways, both of those trends reflect the value associated with marriage, rather than the devaluation of it.

 

It highlights the further eroding of the older generation's values in the younger generation. A couple more generations and you may even be able to suggest a point where cohabitation will be the general rule and marriage will be itself rare.

[notalady]

Take a good long look at the physical tangible benefits and liabilities marriage has for a man and tell me again why this is all so surprising...

 

Men who hold views about marriage such as yours will choose not to get married, while men who believe in marriage (which is in no way shape or form in the minority), will choose to marry. Every one gets what they want and live life the way that aligns with their values and beliefs, simple.

[Lonewing]

Well, some have done it two or three times so for SOME men, it would seem that it's not so bad.

 

Some people never learn to step back and re-evaluate what they're chasing, whereas they chase it their whole lives with no idea what to do with it once they have it.

[yeawutever]

You mean you wouldn't ask for an expensive party to celebrate your marriage, right?

True. I would only invite my main family members and maybe a couple friends. I don't really have too many friends anyways so that's better.

[Lonewing]

Men who hold views about marriage such as yours will choose not to get married, while men who believe in marriage (which is in no way shape or form in the minority), will choose to marry. Every one gets what they want, happy ending.

 

No happy endings for anybody because we all end up in relationships with people who want to get married or not married but they're never the same people. So women end up wanting to be in relationships with the men who don't want to get married, and the men who want to get married end up in relationships with the women who don't want to be married. The kicker? Neither person is willing to be clear about their intentions unless asked point blank, taking the gamble that life in the relationship can be happy for a longer period of time if the other person is under the assumption that their partner has different intentions. It's a nasty poker game for everybody.

[Circe]

I have a real issue with how you define natural because it is far too sexist for my taste.

 

I agree that it was very sexist.

 

I have a lot of male friends of my own, male acquaintances and male friends of my husbands - that at some point or other - I've talked to about this sort of thing. There's not a single one of them that doesn't want marriage. However, MANY of these men (not all - one wants to marry his gf but wants an assurance about children that she's not yet prepared to give) have had several longish-term girlfriends .. one after the other.. all the gf's wanted or expected marriage and the guy didn't want it with them.

 

But in every single case (in my experience) - the man want's marriage with someone. They are just willing to wait for the right person. They don't have the kind of biological time constraints that women who want children have - so they have all the time in the world to wait for the right person. In many of these cases the men see moving in together as a) convenient and fun); AND b) important to judge compatibility.. BUT they do not see it as though they have more of an obligation to propose just because the woman has moved in.

 

About half these guys now have found wives. Some of them I honestly thought NEVER would .. but they have. They're just waiting for the right person - or the right time for them.

 

I think men greatly value marriage with "the right woman".

[IAmFCA]

It highlights the further eroding of the older generation's values in the younger generation. A couple more generations and you may even be able to suggest a point where cohabitation will be the general rule and marriage will be itself rare.

 

My mother loved my father and he cherished her deeply. She chose him, in part, because of his ability to provide. This is no longer a necessary consideration.

 

Now, we marry because we want to. We understand the enormity of the commitment, and we consider it thoughtfully - as did my parents. If we choose not to marry, we still have children, careers, homes. We have the flexibility to meet our goals in other ways. My parents did not have this flexibility. They married late, chose thoughtfully, and stayed together till death parted them, over 50 years. The old ways were not necessarily bad, just more narrow an array of choices.

 

I am not a fan of living together, and I am not a fan of telling others how to live. Folks who live together in one home tell me they respect marriage enormously, fearsomely. They recognize they may not have the skills and they don't know how to get them any other way. Some tell me they intend to live together for a lifetime and do; they are the minority. Most marry or split.

 

The values of prior generations are quite alive; they are demonstrated in a different set of behaviors. Its okay. It remains cool to be faithful, honest, reliable, responsible. Even better, it is now cool to be an active dad, not just a provider. A wonderful shift.

 

I remain convinced that the core values remain in tact. We need to see the new way they are on display.

[faraday]

This sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me *shrugs*

 

I've had three men propose before I was 25. I said no to two of them...and yes to the third (that was my daughter father) but broke off the engagement. I lived with two of them at the time of the proposals. One of my other bfs since then I was quizzing me about ring styles...and I realized he wasn't someone I wanted to marry so I broke up with him.

 

Guys propose all the time. Look at all the cute videos on YouTube. Some of them are attention who res, but some of them...you can just tell they're crazy about their partner (there's a lot of really cute gay proposals too).

 

I have friends that have lived with their bfs for years and want a ring...and he doesn't propose...and...I don't get why they're staying and dating a guy that isn't crazy about them.

 

Date a guy that can't stand the thought of losing you. That loves you, respects you, and wants you to be happy...

 

...be awesome. Be yourself. Don't settle for mediocrity.

 

*ducks and hides*

[IAmFCA]

Since the intro was gender biased I am offering a gender flip:

 

(also, because I need to compete with Faraday, though I cant make her numbers!)

 

The Gentleman has been single all his life. Now, he wants to marry and is scurrying about trying to make it happen. Why? So he will have someone to cleave to in his advanced years.

 

My bf was dating babymakers before me, so that he could marry again and achieve the large family he had hoped for. He may dump me still to make that happen (dumb (*&&*) -- but I don't think so -- and if he decides in a few years that he is ready to stick a fork in it, he will ask me (or whomever) to marry him. Once he is done, he expects to marry. It is how he views his world.

 

My brother expected to marry his post-divorce gf, until he realized he wasn't ready and let her go. When he meets the one, he will marry her (if she agrees).

 

I have never known marriage to be anything but "natural".

 

I know men and women who express commitment differently, but I have not known intimately any woman who achieved her man, so to speak. The men I know who value marriage will ask, when they are ready, as an expression of the value they instill in their partners. Women will ask as well - I know two who have - and their men were glad for it. No pressure. Just happiness.

[IAmFCA]

Yes, but the odds of a bad marriage are higher than 50:50 [whereas not all bad marriages end in divorce], and there is nothing worse for a man's health than a divorce.

 

 

Be willing to give up the good and go for the great, or take the health benefits off the table and accept the good.

 

Divorce has had a terrible impact on my career, my physical and emotional health, my friendships, and financial stability. This is a risk for both genders.

 

I would marry again, if I were clear. I knew, last time, that it wasn't right but I didn't trust myself. If I were clear about it, then it would be excellent for my health.

[Circe]

My husband proposed a couple of times, I said no because it was way too soon. When I felt I was ready I told him so - so the "final" proposal was not really much of a proposal - it was the result of that discussion. The idea of sitting around and waiting for a proposal, or hinting for one, from a man I already knew wanted to marry me - it would have just made me laugh and I'd have said "why?" if someone suggested that.

 

The decision to get married should always be a joint one - the rest (proposals, rings etc) are just superfluous.

 

There is just no way that men don't want marriage - I just don't see that in my life or in my world. I did do some research recently that suggested that marriage rates are a lot higher in high SES people than low SES people - so there may be something to that.. you'd have to look closely into why, I suppose.

[Blue Spiral]

What? The point is that the traditional want of marriage is far from dead nor is the wedding business going bankrupt anytime soon, it's not going to die outright anytime soon either inspite of your negative vibes on the subject you're putting out to your Universe.

 

I don't know...social changes can be pretty rapid. Look at the Sexual Revolution, and how quickly gay marriage has gained popular acceptance. I could see straight marriage falling off a cliff in a similarly-sudden fashion. Oh, extremely religious and committed people would keep getting married, but it's easy to imagine it falling out of the mainstream. In America, I believe that around forty percent of all births are out of wedlock, and single people now outnumber married people. I can't wait to see where we are ten years from now.

 

Will "negative vibes" kill marriage? Nah. But if enough people vote with their feet...well, we'll see. I don't know if marriage will fall off a cliff or not, but I plan on giving it a healthy push.

[Blue Spiral]

There is just no way that men don't want marriage

 

"According to Pew Research Center, the share of women ages eighteen to thirty-four that say having a successful marriage is one of the most important things in their lives rose nine percentage points since 1997--from 28 percent to 37%. For men, the opposite occurred. The share voicing this opinion dropped, from 35 percent to 29 percent."

 

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It's just one survey, I know. But guys like me are a little ahead of the curve. Give it time. It seems to be hitting Japan and Europe first, but it'll eventually make its way over here...

[IAmFCA]

Point being, that people are committing to one another without declaing it to the state? Or that men and women do not wish to make lifetime commitments to one another? Those are two very different dynamics.

[Circe]

"According to Pew Research Center, the share of women ages eighteen to thirty-four that say having a successful marriage is one of the most important things in their lives rose nine percentage points since 1997--from 28 percent to 37%. For men, the opposite occurred. The share voicing this opinion dropped, from 35 percent to 29 percent."

 

link removed

 

It's just one survey, I know. But guys like me are a little ahead of the curve. Give it time. It seems to be hitting Japan and Europe first, but it'll eventually make its way over here...

 

Not only is it just one study - it also doesn't speak to whether men want to get married. It speaks to whether they list having a successful marriage as one of the most important things in their lives. Two very different things.

[Circe]

By the way - why does the link to "Pew Research Center" on that article take you to a Fox News website rather than the centre?

 

As a result I can't check:

1) how many people were in the study?

2) what was their demographic? (the results are only representative of that demographic, e.g., upper class white men in New York (or whatever it happens to be) and Only if the sample size was big enough

3) How was the research conducted? (Loads of problems with poorly conducted research lead to inaccurate results that simply mirror what the experimenter WANTS to find rather than the truth - and I won't go into them because I've just retired from an entire day of writing about this sort of thing for my post-grad work and I'm tired!!

[Lonewing]

Be willing to give up the good and go for the great, or take the health benefits off the table and accept the good.

 

Divorce has had a terrible impact on my career, my physical and emotional health, my friendships, and financial stability. This is a risk for both genders.

 

I would marry again, if I were clear. I knew, last time, that it wasn't right but I didn't trust myself. If I were clear about it, then it would be excellent for my health.

 

In otherwords, put the money on black and pray it comes back...

[Lonewing]

Point being, that people are committing to one another without declaring it to the state? Or that men and women do not wish to make lifetime commitments to one another? Those are two very different dynamics.

 

Or both?

 

It's never one sole reason alone for anyone, I wouldn't think. Usually when we make decisions, we load up as many pros and cons as possible, and then take the best course.

[Lonewing]

If one of the core values behind marriage was this ability/necessity to provide, and that provision has been removed, then the core values have been Very Significantly altered.

 

This new way essentially makes it possible for anyone to go their whole life without a partner - even having and raising kids - so at this point, marriage is not even essential any more.

[Circe]

The major core value behind marriage from a societal point of view is stability. That hasn't changed.

[Lester]

The major core value behind marriage from a societal point of view is stability. That hasn't changed.

 

Stability only seems like a core value.

Instead, it is a residual benefit of the hard work you put into finding the spouse who was made just for you.

[Batya33]

I think if children are involved then it is more stable for the family to be married to your partner (or at least domestic partners) than not. If there are no children involved I still think there is more stability in a marriage than in a live together relationship especially if both people believe in and value the institution of marriage- not in a brainwashed way, in a genuine way - not in that silly "marriage and college degrees are just pieces of paper" way.. People who feel that way will feel more stable being married and will differentiate to some degree the level of commitment in a marital as opposed to a non-marital relationship. JMHO.