Lowering my standards for physical attractiveness in dating?

[radiohead20]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand yet another thread is on its way to being poisoned!

 

OP, you'd better be careful with what you say...turns out ENA may not be the best place to vent. You may start having unwarranted insults from trolls tossed your way

 

oh, there are only a few people on this forum that I actually take seriously, and they usually offer some input into my threads

[superfan]

You are putting the cart before the horse, in my opinion, OP.

 

I will chime in here and say that my husband is not the most conventionally attractive guy. In fact, the only thing that he has going for him that might be considered "conventionally attractive" is his height (he is very tall). Oddly enough that is something I have never really gone for in a guy because I am extremely short. He is the first all guy I have been with and when you are an entire foot shorter let's just say that things don't always line up

 

He is also ginger, and skinny...not things you would normally associate with conventional attractiveness. When I first met him I wasn't "instantly" attracted to him.

 

It took a while for me to realize I was physically attracted to him (as well as mentally). It wasn't helped by the fact that we lived overseas so the first real "test" I had to determine if I was attracted came when he came to visit me. It was sink or swim so to speak.

 

By that point we had built up enough of a relationship as friends that there was definite chemistry there.

 

As others have pointed out you DO need to be physically attracted to your partner. Absolutely. But attraction doesn't always hit right away. The myth in today's society seems to be that you have to feel that instant sizzle of chemistry and attraction in order for a relationship to be possible...that aint it.

 

You could come into contact with all the "hot" 20somethings in the world, and if there is nothing in common between you, I promise you it won't work. Oh sure, you can ignore the incompatibility for a while for the sake of sex and companionship, but that will not produce a lasting relationship. Eventually it WILL end.

 

To decide that you are going to relax your "standards" a bit is not necessarily "settling" and I think that is where the confusion comes in.

 

I never thought I would date a tall guy, but once I got together with my husband, I started to find it really sexy (despite the difficulties in "lining up").

 

You have said you prefer a certain body type, but what if you relaxed those standards and just allowed yourself to get to know other types of women with different body types. You might eventually find that other parts attract you, like her smile, the way her eyes light up, her hair, the way she walks or carries herself, etc. I know other guys have written those things off, but I honestly think that is the difference between a relationship that will go the distance and one that will fizzle out.

 

Eventually, OP, as you pointed out, we all get old and frail and what you are left with becomes the most important thing.

 

We get hung up on words like "settling" which sound awful, but it's not settling to realize that your current approach isn't working and adjust it accordingly.

 

Also, as far as the babyface goes, believe it or not there are only certain times in a woman's monthly cycle where she is specifically attracted to the "rugged" masculine type of face...the rest of the time, it should work in your favour (it's why they call them "boy bands").

 

I also look about 5 years younger than my age, which doesn't help when trying to be taken seriously at work lol.

[radiohead20]

Blue Spiral, nice weekly attempt at fanning some sort of controversy. You must be bored today.

 

OP has a kid. Lots of women are not interested in dating guys his age with kids. Even he is not interested in dating a single mom. Facts are facts and not shame.

 

Its because almost every single mom I have met, they have their kids >70% of the time and I would have to jump around logistical nightmares just to plan a date with them. the arrangement I have with the mother is 2 overnight weekdays a week plus I usually see him once on the weekend. I have a lot more free time and get to be involved with my son regularly. I am not being a "hypocrite" for no reason.

 

Also, I am curious on why you seem so dead-set on the fact that having a 2 year old seems to severely handicapp my ability to date women around my own age? Pardon me for the maury-esque language, but I am not a typical baby-daddy living in an apartment eating ramen noodles from paying too much child support with baby mama drama. I have my own place, clear close to 90,000 a year in a career I love, and still have all other aspects of my life together (more than most people my age in fact). (except for the dating aspect).

 

But I don't think you'll have to go that far. I guarantee you: there are women out there that are attracted to the type of guy you are. Think about all of the freaky things that people are attracted to. There are foot fetishists and all sorts of kinks that have me reaching for the brain-bleach, so there must be ten times as many women that are attracted to something as clean and mainstream as your "type". I disagree with goodheartleady; I don't think either gender is universally attracted to a certain "type", and that everyone who can't get that type is "settling". I never settled for my girlfriends or my FWBs. Shockingly enough, I was their type (or one of their types), and they were one of mine. There are women that go for baby-faced guys (I'm one, too), just as there are women that go for metrosexual guys, black guys only, British accents, humor, musicians, etc. We live in a world where there are women that enjoy being peed on...do you really think that something as simple as looking younger is going to doom you?

 

Well blue spiral, your stance makes perfect sense, and I would like to believe there is some fetish out there for a head of 18 year old on a 28 year old's body, but In my hundreds of encounters I have yet to run accross one! (if you know any send them my way.....lol).

[John John]

Fantastic post. I personally have some things I refuse to budge on (I wouldn't ever date a woman who is not "slim" or "athletic," but that's just me), but I have relaxed my "requirements" in other areas. I used to ONLY go after blondes and redheads with blue eyes, but I've found lately that I'm insanely attracted to brunettes and girls with brown eyes.

 

And having a babyface has always been an asset to me! lol

[radiohead20]

Well, maybe I should clarify a little haha - I do not "search" for a certain type. I don't say "well she is too fat", "she is not tall enough". I merely used "fit and cute face" as a generality to draw a line SOMEWHERE. My view is that I go there with no expectations and if I am attracted to her, it's a go. If she happens to be a overweight (as an example) and I am still attracted to her, I'm fine with that.

[Ms Darcy]

Edited to clarify: I don't think it's fair to say "It's okay to not be attracted to someone" in one area, and to turn around and say the opposite in another area. If it's okay to just "state the fact" that some women don't like single dads, then it's okay to state the same about some men and single moms. If it's okay to say that many women just aren't attracted to short guys, then it's okay to say that many men just aren't attracted to heavy or extremely experienced women. But I see a lot of picking and choosing around here. Which is why I think that, if the tables were turned, you wouldn't be picking on the OP.

 

IF the tables were turned and "she" couldn't find a man attractive enough to meet her standards, she would probably get a lot more feedback about how looks are not everything. And she would get more comments about how men don't want single moms and that she should be willing to date single dads. Actually, there are threads out there exactly like this.

 

IF I were to treat him like a woman would get treated, I would say to him that looks shouldn't matter at all and that he has to keep in mind that he's only got a few good years left in him before his eggs dry up so he should be more open to men who are nice guys and good providers.

[DancingFool]

Also, I am curious on why you seem so dead-set on the fact that having a 2 year old seems to severely handicapp my ability to date women around my own age? Pardon me for the maury-esque language, but I am not a typical baby-daddy living in an apartment eating ramen noodles from paying too much child support with baby mama drama. I have my own place, clear close 90,000 a year, and still have all other aspects of my life together (more than most people my age in fact). (except for the dating aspect).

 

The women in that age bracket are just coming out of the college/career stage and into the hey I want a family stage. In other words they are looking for that fresh new marriage and all the trimmings. You are coming with baggage no matter how you spin it. Also, there are a ton of guys to pick from who don't have kids or previous marriages. It's kind of like why would you buy a used car when you can pick and choose from a bunch of sparkling brand new ones.

 

Like it or not, at your age, having a kid is a handicap when it comes to dating. Many women won't consider you for that reason alone. Yes, the reverse is true too. Many single guys in this age bracket won't consider single moms either. They have plenty of women to pick from that they don't need the past and the baggage and some other guy's kid and the ex problems and so on.

 

Late 20's early to mid 30's, the dating scene is stocked full with single professionals who are suddenly coming onto the dating scene looking for that first marriage, the baby and the white picket fence. Basically, if you are a single parent not willing to date another single parent, your pool just shrunk to barely a drop when it comes to options.

[radiohead20]

Like I said, I consider myself a young professional that has a lot going for him and progressed very far in his career at an early age. I would honestly be fine dating a young professional women single mother that is in the same situation as I am in, problem is, they simply do not exist. so that leaves me, according to your and ms Darcy's logic, with young single stay at home mom's that have their kids 70% of the time/little forward career movement/little time to date/baby daddy drama.

 

you know, the huge huge irony about this is that, in choosing to stay involved with my son (I could have not been and been fine financially), and doing what I thought was the right and noble thing, is actually putting me in a much worse position to date than if I was a deadbeat and just decided to never see him or only occasionally. I'm content with my choice though as I thought it was the right thing to do. I do not get any brownie points for not being a deadbeat. It's extremely hard to this day living with that bittersweet decision.

[Jimbly]

There's a lot going on in this thread! I don't want to multi-post, so I'll put my thoughts here.

 

On being baby-faced. I too have this problem but, now that I'm 40, it's not a bad thing. Look on the bright side. You might not be happy with how you look now, but in a few years time, you will look great for your age. My problem now is that my girlfriend prefers it if I don't shave for a few weeks and let my hair grow out so the curls start (she has a thing for Jon Snow from Game of Thrones, and I even come with the British accent). I'm not so fond of it since it make me feel old, and my beard growth is a bit odd with big gaps on my cheeks. I have to "let myself go" for several weeks to look remotely my actual age. Maybe the OP could try this? Maybe it will "age" you a bit.

 

On being a single dad (and dating single mothers). I am in the same situation. Yes, the scheduling can be a pain, but once you get into a regular routine (for the scheduling, not the relationship) it works great. When I first started dating my girlfriend (a 31 year old professional with an almost 4 year old - yes they do exist!) we only saw each other one day at the weekend, then when it got more serious we both talked to our ex's and changed our existing schedules. We now see each other one night during the week, and at the weekend with a couple of overnights. I have my daughter all day Sunday through Wednesday morning (so almost half the week), and she has her son about 70%, but our schedule works fine for now.

 

On online dating. I think online dating is the best thing ever. Even with fairly strict "requirements", with patience and strategy, online dating can pay real dividends. On websites like okcupid, the sheer volume of questions you can answer means you get a pretty accurate idea of what somebody is going to be like. Unfortunately some of the profile pictures are misleading, but for me weeding out based on interests and values was more important. Having said that, my girlfriend was new to the site had a one sentence profile with no pictures. I was goofing around when I first messaged her and we hit it off. When she expanded her profile and put up pictures (we both dated others for a few weeks before we became exclusive) I was pleasantly surprised.

 

On attraction. There are attractive kidless 20-somethings who will date older guys with kids. I dated a few. However, you are limiting yourself greatly. I tend to date short curvy brunettes. My ex-wife was short and brunette, but not curvy, but pretty close to my "type". My girlfriend is a 5'8" (tall by my standards), slim redhead. I tell her that if I'd seen her on the street or in a bar, I wouldn't have paid her much notice. Not because she is unattractive, but because of my narrow-minded view of what I found attractive. She is also extremely extroverted and self-confident and I probably would have found her personality annoying on first meeting her. When we went on our first date, I didn't feel instant sexual chemistry. It was exactly as TVNERDGIRL felt with her husband (another tall ginger!). Due to our work schedules we didn't go on our first date until 3 weeks after we first started chatting online. We messaged each other a lot, then transitioned to phone calls. We had built up such a rapport before our first date, which only continued to build, by our second date I felt a strong attraction. I would change what TVNERDGIRL said a little. It isn't a matter of "relaxing" your standards, it's not being a slave to your conception of the "type" you should date, and branching out. My friends (and ex-wife...) say that my girlfriend is a major upgrade from others I've dated, and I have to agree.

[Ms Darcy]

I think you are catasphrofizing a bit here, taking my words and running with the worst possible interpretation. Young professional single mothers have their kids 70% of the time, more often than not, because of societal gender roles. When your ex got pregnant, did you petition for joint custody? No. Now you want brownie points for not being a deadbeat dad ....

 

YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A DEADBEAT DAD.

 

Men don't get brownie points for being involved in your child's life. Like you said, being a father is the right thing to do. It's like some guys getting upset their relationship ended because "I never beat her or cheated on her." YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BEAT HER AND CHEAT ON HER. Jeez people. Low expectations. Lol.

 

I also never said this leaves you with stay at home moms either. The point is that if you (for whatever reason) won't date single moms, that leaves you with women who are not single moms. And for the attractive women around your age who are not single moms, they are generally not interested in dating single dads. As you get older and it is more common for people to be divorced and/or have kids, this won't be as much of an issue. It's not "my logic" ... moreso my experience and observation.

 

Personally, I agree with Jimbly that the single mom thing shouldn't be an obstacle. You are working full-time and being a parent is a job too so both of you are busy. But if you are both planners and you have a regular schedule, things can work out quite well.

[goodheartlady]

In my culture, men are expected to be hands on and caring fathers. There are no dead beat dads (or very few of them). Being a man means taking care of your children.

 

I find it funny that things are so bad in america, every one needs to give a standing ovation to someone who is half way involved.

 

Agree with miss Darcy 100 percent.

[Blue Spiral]

Well blue spiral, your stance makes perfect sense, and I would like to believe there is some fetish out there for a head of 18 year old on a 28 year old's body, but In my hundreds of encounters I have yet to run accross one! (if you know any send them my way.....lol).

 

Here's what I think you should do:

 

1. For the next few years, focus on raising your kid, having fun, and working. Date casually, but don't worry about a relationship.

 

2. When you're in your early- or mid-thirties, you'll have like a zillion marriage-desperate, hot, late-twenties women to choose from, and they'll be thrilled that you're still young-looking. (And most of their male peers will have kids by then, so it shouldn't be as much of a factor.) None of my relationships lasted longer than a season of American Idol, and yet women are still asking me if I'm sure I'm happy being single. (When they get a bit older, they have to compete with younger, hotter women, and they become more realistic about things--men benefit, and it can be a heck of a lot of fun to watch, too.)

[radiohead20]

Here's what I think you should do:

 

1. For the next few years, focus on raising your kid, having fun, and working. Date casually, but don't worry about a relationship.

 

2. When you're in your early- or mid-thirties, you'll have like a zillion marriage-desperate, hot, late-twenties women to choose from, and they'll be thrilled that you're still young-looking. (And most of their male peers will have kids by then, so it shouldn't be as much of a factor.) None of my relationships lasted longer than a season of American Idol, and yet women are still asking me if I'm sure I'm happy being single. (When they get a bit older, they have to compete with younger, hotter women, and they become more realistic about things--men benefit, and it can be a heck of a lot of fun to watch, too.)

 

 

Seems reasonable, and probably better than resigning myself to a life of singlehood. haha. the only problem is here something called my sex drive, but I guess I can have casual relations with women I am not too attracted too.

 

 

 

I think you are catasphrofizing a bit here, taking my words and running with the worst possible interpretation. Young professional single mothers have their kids 70% of the time, more often than not, because of societal gender roles. When your ex got pregnant, did you petition for joint custody? No. Now you want brownie points for not being a deadbeat dad ....

 

YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A DEADBEAT DAD.

 

Men don't get brownie points for being involved in your child's life. Like you said, being a father is the right thing to do. It's like some guys getting upset their relationship ended because "I never beat her or cheated on her." YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BEAT HER AND CHEAT ON HER. Jeez people. Low expectations. Lol.

 

I also never said this leaves you with stay at home moms either. The point is that if you (for whatever reason) won't date single moms, that leaves you with women who are not single moms. And for the attractive women around your age who are not single moms, they are generally not interested in dating single dads. As you get older and it is more common for people to be divorced and/or have kids, this won't be as much of an issue. It's not "my logic" ... moreso my experience and observation.

 

Personally, I agree with Jimbly that the single mom thing shouldn't be an obstacle. You are working full-time and being a parent is a job too so both of you are busy. But if you are both planners and you have a regular schedule, things can work out quite well.

 

 

I don't want brownie points for being a deadbeat dad haha. My point was just highlight the irony of being a deadbeat dad and ironically having a better chance at dating because women (well I'm going to go out on a limb and say...there are a lot more american women that would be "fine" with it, sadly) will not have to deal with too much drama and they can have their "family" without interruption from your "baggage". I suppose I just have not a met a single mother that I would be comfortable dating, all that I have met are in their later 30's, or in their 20's and dealing with the fallback from a divorce still. I'll keep my eyes open.

[goodheartlady]

Single women are told to overlook appearance all the time: "it is not about looks! It is about what kind of father and husband he will be!" "Stop being picky about looks: you will end up 40 and alone!!!"

 

And in reality, the great majority of women I know are dating very average and even below average looking dudes.

 

I have multiple very nice - but really unattractive - male friends who have surprisingly beatiful girlfriends. The number of dorky white guys with sweet and gorgeous Asian or Russian girlfriends - if I have a dollar for every one of them!!

 

All this leads to wonder : the guys who are absolutely hitting zeros, what is going on here?

 

Blue spiral is right - there are sooo many desperate women looking for relationships (far more than men). Supply of woman who want to date far outweigh men. So what is going on with the men who are hitting zeros??

[Blue Spiral]

Blue spiral is right - there are sooo many desperate women looking for relationships (far more than men). Supply of woman who want to date far outweigh men. So what is going on with the men who are hitting zeros??

 

1. The men in question live in economically-prosperous areas (usually big cities), and the women there can afford to have higher standards in terms of income, education, social skills, etc., as they have a larger/materialistically better pool to draw from.

 

2. A lack of height, of course.

 

3. They never bothered to develop their personalities or interests or social skills (in the context of mating, anyway), as they weren't looking for any of that in women. I've said this before: they thought "I want a pretty girl who's nice, so I'll be a handsome guy who's nice!" Our parents told us to treat girls nicely and everything would work out; little did we know about all of this other complicated stuff. I'm almost 35, and it was only because of ENA that I learned about certain advanced expectations that most women have.

 

4. Put a hundred men and a hundred women in a room. (Big room, obviously.) You aren't going to get a hundred couples as a result. Most of the women will go after the top twenty men, most of the men will go after the top forty women (we're a bit less discriminating), and it'll end up looking like a trauma-inducing game of musical chairs, with a whole bunch of people "left over". As you said, many women are desperate for relationships, but a significant percentage of them are going after the top men, not all men. Many women would rather be alone than be with a non-alpha-male (I hate terms like that, but they get basic points accross). I, obviously, have chosen to be alone, as I can't find my ideal women. A whole bunch of us are ignoring the current candidates and waiting to check out the next room.

[Lonewing]

IF I were to treat him like a woman would get treated, I would say to him that looks shouldn't matter at all and that he has to keep in mind that he's only got a few good years left in him before his eggs dry up so he should be more open to men who are nice guys and good providers.

 

Hence, the playing field will never truly be level...

[Lonewing]

I dare say #2. bears witness to the wisdom expressed in #1. The women who are dating are with men at or below their level. The women who are single are looking for men at or above their level.

 

#3. Easy enough to explain. Where these girls are from, the guys they are with are above their level. I would not want to be a man where they are from! Now the guys hitting zeros here, we just haven't put up the effort to go spend a couple years in one of these places, or buy one of these girls, or such. It's a big business, 5 grand or so and you can get yourself a mail order bride. I knew a guy who has one.

 

#4. Dating sites and every avenue for dating suggests otherwise - higher populations of men versus women - but that being said, most of those guys want sex. Now maybe there are more women out there looking for relationships, but then it seems to me more men are actually doing something about it and trying to find a woman, rather than sitting wringing their hands Saying they want a relaitonship.

[goodheartlady]

The worst thing that can happen to a woman - per cultural bias/standard - is to end up alone and childless. There is really so much pressure for women to find someone - anyone - before they are too old. In this backdrop, women are really very accepting: the majority are not dating alphas! Most are taking a beta over being alone.

 

Well, read this forum: all these women are desperately chasing after some pretty average dudes! I doubt these men are rich, 6'2", or alphas!

 

The situation for you gentleman is really not that dire: you are working with a gender who desperately want someone due to their ticking clock. The social trends are and have also been in your favor! And if you are striking out against this backdrop/set up, I think you should really do some deep soul searching.

[Batya33]

The worst thing that can happen to a woman - per cultural bias/standard - is to end up alone and childless. There is really so much pressure for women to find someone - anyone - before they are too old. In this backdrop, women are really very accepting: the majority are not dating alphas! Most are taking a beta over being alone.

 

Well, read this forum: all these women are desperately chasing after some pretty average dudes! I doubt these men are rich, 6'2", or alphas!

 

The situation for you gentleman is really not that dire: you are working with a gender who desperately want someone due to their ticking clock. The social trends are and have also been in your favor! And if you are striking out against this backdrop/set up, I think you should really do some deep soul searching.

 

I first married and had a child at 42. I was not desperate. I would not have wanted my husband to marry me because I felt that kind of pressure or was desperate. Certainly once we knew we wanted to marry we started trying to conceive right away because I was 40 - but I don't think it's healthy to couple up with someone if there's a focus on the ticking clock and finding someone. I wanted to marry and have a child because that was my dream, nothing to do with society. I believe -very strongly -that most of my friends -and many married in their 30s/40s -felt exactly the same way.

 

I had no interest in comparing alphas/betas or you choose your favorite catch phrase. My focus was to find the right person for me and my best advice is to be the right person to find the right person -nothing to do with settling or considering "betas" instead of alphas. Who cares what others think of your choice or what some minority of people think you're supposed to want. You have to be willing to listen to what you want and not care about others' views. (With one exception -if the people who really care about you think you're making a huge mistake because of a risk for your emotional or physical safety with that person definitely listen to why they feel that way and consider whether there is merit to it).

 

And I wouldn't "chase" anyone - I don't think most women do that either (or most men) in healthy relationships. What I hear over and over again is that the relationship felt right from the beginning, that it was basically mutual attraction/affection and that even if the man followed traditional dating and asked the woman out more than she asked him, her response was with interest, enthusiasm and encouragement. If you have to chase too much or feel like you're walking on eggshells/auditioning for more than a very short period of time then that person is probably not right for you.

[goodheartlady]

Batya,

 

My main point is these guys are being too negative: many of them have this belief that women only want rich, tall, and aggressive men. While the facts are women date all kinds of men. We tell women to settle all the time - for better or worse.

 

Had the OP been a woman, she would be told to stop focusing on looks immediately. Most would tell her " physical attraction" should not be a priority at all.

 

A lot of men here think that the world is stacked up against them: just not true.

 

Congrats on finding someone later in life! You are very lucky!

[icecreamaddict]

I'll weigh in here since I think I am in your target age range (I'm 27) and also a young professional. If you were a dead beat dad there is no way I would consider dating you. In your current situation I think it's great you're involved in your child's life and have a lot of respect for you for that but I still would be hard pressed to date anyone with a kid because I don't think think I would be able to deal with all the added stress that comes with dating someone with a kid. I'd venture to guess a lot of women in your desired age bracket feel the same way.

[superfan]

The worst thing that can happen to a woman - per cultural bias/standard - is to end up alone and childless. There is really so much pressure for women to find someone - anyone - before they are too old. In this backdrop, women are really very accepting: the majority are not dating alphas! Most are taking a beta over being alone.

 

Well, read this forum: all these women are desperately chasing after some pretty average dudes! I doubt these men are rich, 6'2", or alphas!

 

The situation for you gentleman is really not that dire: you are working with a gender who desperately want someone due to their ticking clock. The social trends are and have also been in your favor! And if you are striking out against this backdrop/set up, I think you should really do some deep soul searching.

 

I think the situation is the exact opposite and that is something that a lot of men in today's society are having difficulty dealing with.

 

Yes there are some women out there (on this forum either) who are "desperately chasing a relationship" or 'feeling their biological clocks ticking' but there are many many MORE women out there who are not interested in basing their entire future on whether or not they find a man.

 

I myself had zero interest in a relationship for a good chunk of my 20s. I was far too interested in finishing my degree and cultivating a social life than I was in finding a relationship. I personally never cared if I married.

 

I wasn't against the idea (obviously as I did eventually marry) but it wasn't my top priority and I wasn't willing to "settle" for just anybody. He didn't have to be "alpha" or rich, or anything that some of the others have suggested, but he did have to compliment my own values, likes, dislikes and share the same common interests. I wasn't willing to settle for anything other than someone I was compatible with and I think many many women in today's society have realized there is more to life than "finding a man".

 

Certainly the evidence would suggest it as women are becoming far more educated and marrying far later as a result. And these tend to be the relationships that ultimately go the distance - not the ones who settle with someone out of desperation.

 

Nobody is saying a person shouldn't have standards - but rather that those standards need to be based not simply on physical attraction. Thinking "I just need to find a girl/guy who is 'nice' and I am attracted to" is the thinking of a 12 year old. If that is all that you require, then the relationship is not going to last.

 

And yes, attraction for those who are seeking a deeper connection IS directly tied into more than just how she looks physically and it may indeed take time to develop that.

 

Being a single parent WILL limit your chances with some people (and that is true of men and women) but that is just the reality of the situation.

 

Focusing on meeting people you have mutual interests with and cultivating those interests and social groups will eventually lead to a relationship.

[Sportster2005]

Batya,

 

My main point is these guys are being too negative: many of them have this belief that women only want rich, tall, and aggressive men. While the facts are women date all kinds of men. We tell women to settle all the time - for better or worse.

 

Had the OP been a woman, she would be told to stop focusing on looks immediately. Most would tell her " physical attraction" should not be a priority at all.

 

A lot of men here think that the world is stacked up against them: just not true.

 

Congrats on finding someone later in life! You are very lucky!

 

It's easier to place the blame on dating failure on women. And once a man's attitude is set this way they will look for evidence to support their bias. This makes them even less attractive and causes a downward spiral. I think it's probably the same for women. Often I hear comments about how men only want younger women, or perfect body women, etc. That is no more true than women only want tall rich men. Obviously the tall and rich and beautiful among us are going to be more sought after. That's life. At the end of the day bad attitude makes you less attractive. And when you are getting rejected because of your bad attitude it reinforces your bad attitude.

 

Anywho, whenever I see threads about settling I think people who refuse to settle, or lower their standards, are really just refusing to give up their fantasy. Every person I know personally who refuses to lower their standards has been single forever, and I suspect will die single. These are nice attractive women. But their 'standards' border on entitlement.

 

I hung around with a woman once whom I only found slightly attractive. After a few months I found her very attractive and pursued. To no avail. But I was surprised by how much my attraction for her grew.

[radiohead20]

I'll weigh in here since I think I am in your target age range (I'm 27) and also a young professional. If you were a dead beat dad there is no way I would consider dating you. In your current situation I think it's great you're involved in your child's life and have a lot of respect for you for that but I still would be hard pressed to date anyone with a kid because I don't think think I would be able to deal with all the added stress that comes with dating someone with a kid. I'd venture to guess a lot of women in your desired age bracket feel the same way.

 

So, if my standard is to date professional women that are least "cute" (as a whole package) and in their 20's (like myself), I pretty much have to resort to blue spiral's suggestion to forgot about dating and focus on everything else until my mid 30's, when women will want to date me because they are desperate to settle down (sounds like a great reason), obviously is dependent on the assumption that females on this board seem to have that said that 99% of women that I would want to date now will outright refuse to consider me because I have a young child, thus forcing me to either choose single mothers that are probably arguably in way worse condition than I am or lower my standards significantly. honestly, it just all seems like a bad idea. I did not really really think that having a 2 year old that I am involved with whilst still having plenty of time for everything else (career, hobbies, dating) while being extremely successful for my age would have such a tremendously negative impact to my dating life (my problem with having a babyface set aside) that I should pretty much not even entertain the possibility of dating someone that I would be content with until I hit my 30's? I just don't buy it. I know I have more value than this. Being able to help raise and be involved in my sons's life while working in a high paying professional career in something I love while still having time to keep my body in shape/have self improvement goals I'd say should at least count for something.

 

funny thing is, many of the attractive single mothers I know in their 20's have no problem eventually finding someone, and usually they do not have to lower their standards terribly. why are men different?

[chr8st8na]

In response to the OP... I don't think you should worry. Sometimes I think we want so much of something we look for ways to fix ourselves to get it and when you get it, you realized it didnt improve your life dramatically. I am not saying don't stop working on progress, I am saying look at the grand scheme of things. You got a whole lot going for you and on top of that, you have a beautiful kid to enrich your life. You probably don't see it, but there are women who find you attractive by your qualities. Plus beauty is really in the eye of the beholder.

 

On a personal note, I think saying you do not want to settled could be interpretated as a sense of entitlement and that's not always true. I think the older you get, you become more laxed with your standards and expectations.... But i also think the older you get, you also know what you want... especially if you have a lot of experience in dating and your mentality is set on finding a lifetime partner. I will say most women are more inclined to give a guy a chance if he has great qualities about him excluding looks... Me personally, I have to be physically attracted to the man and it may come off as superficial but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what i find attractive, I know most women would not.