radiohead20 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Long read, cliffs on bottom. There has only been one time in my life I dated someone that I had true physical chemistry with, that is, I was physically attracted to her. The physical intimacy was great and I felt like being intimate with her constantly, and her the same. It was only one element of the relationship and attraction "equation" but I felt like it affected everything else and brought the relationship to a new level. Physical attraction is something that I thought I required in a relationship, but reflecting on my dating life since I was 18 and the extreme difficulty I have attracting women that I am actually physically attracted to has gotten me seriously entertaining the idea of dating women that I may not be physically attracted to. I was one of the those guys growing up that did not a natural sense with women, mostly due to my upbringing. I decided to clean up my act when I was 18, started socializing and really putting myself out there (now I am starting to realize all the crazy stuff I did to try to get outside my comfort zone). I got my first girlfriend, who was, arguably, a lot more attractive than I was. I would hear constantly "how is that guy dating that girl" or "that girl is way too pretty for him". I sorta made me a little cocky and boosted confidence. Unfortunately, we were not right for each other and we broke it off when I was 22, she loved me but I always felt as if she was always eyeing other men or not physically attracted to me. After that, I stayed single for a while and entered the dating world again. ever since then, I have noticed a re-occurring trend: No girls I have found physically attractive enough to date seem to be even remotely interested in me. I do GREAT with women actually, only the ones that I am not attracted too. I noticed this early enough, asked female friends for advice and they all implied that my looks were probably the reason. I hit the gym, gained 30 pounds of muscle and improved my style drastically. However, even after this, nothing really has changed. I have a terrible babyface (I mean terrible, not in a brad-pitt-has-a-baby-face-but-still-has-some rugged features way). I look like I am around 18-19 when I am 28. Cannot grow facial hair, terribly soft skin etc, there is absolutely nothing masculine about my face. Basically I went from looking like a 28 year old that looks like a scrawny 19 year to a 28 year old that looks like a muscular well dressed 18 year old. problem is I still look young. Not all women are focused entirely on looks, but I believe that there are certain universal "dealbreakers", one of them I have. Because of my extreme babyface, I believe I do not meet those requirements for women I am attracted too (and most of society would deem attractive). Keep in mind I do not have super high standards, all I want is a girl who is at least fit with a face that is considered cute. I am not looking for a super thin victoria's secret model. I would say probably 50% of women who are around my age in my area that are not overweight/obese I would feel physical chemistry with. I tried dating someone I was not attracted to physically but had other points of chemistry and it resulted in her feeling unloved, physically, and myself feeling sexually frustrated and my eyes wandering. It just didn't work with my mindset at the time. I feel like I have done all I can. I improved myself physically and socially and chatted to hundreds of women over the past 10 years, and it resulted in one relationship where the girl was not attracted to me physically, but stuck with me. I feel like there is really nothing I can do. So I feel like I am at two paths right now. #1: Keep the mantra that you need physical attraction to be with someone but keep improving yourself and trying. As a result, I will most likely, based on my past experience, stay single for a long long time (5-10 more years) . Be comfortable adjusting to this and base your life on finding happiness without a relationship for a long period of time. I don't really think this is that bad of a lifestyle to be honest. I am pretty independent and do not have to worry about pleasing a significant other. The con of this path is that, although I think people should be happy single, that in the long run a relationship with all the necessary elements (physical attraction being one of them) is vital to long term happiness and get really help you through tough times/stressful times. #2: Decide to give it a try to date someone that you have amazing mental chemistry, but not so much physical chemistry with. maybe work on being a little more selfless and showing her more physical intimacy, even if you have to work on it a little. Couples grow old and frail, and the friendship is what remains anyways. I know this idea sounds a little nutsy, but in the long run I may be happier with this. So, if you guys want cliffs: OP realizes he is not good with women in high school OP decides to put himself out there and gets girlfriend that he is attracted, notices she does not want to be physically intimate with him. Breaks it off. OP is single, decides to do something about his looks after consulting female friends and they all tell him looks are his problem. OP improves style and gains muscle mass hoping it would negate his extreme babyface Does not work, since now he looks like a stylish very fit 18 year old that is in fact 28. OP has two paths/mindsets: #1 decide to only date women he is physically attracted, but likely stay single and not actually attract any of those women. #2 date women that have other things going for them but he is not physically attracted too. Link to comment
mhowe Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 My brother is 54 and still has very young face. I would be surprised if he shaves daily. He is tall and athletic. He has dated through sites, mutual friend set ups, etc. While I am sure at times he dated women he wasn't totally attracted to --- they have all been nice looking. He was engaged once --- she was stunning. He is engaged again --- she isn't the prettiest of the bunch, but she shares tons of his hobbies and lifestyle. The choice is yours.... Link to comment
John John Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The short answer: don't settle, because it will negatively impact your relationship over the long-term, but also try to be realistic with your expectations. I've actually removed myself from the dating scene at the moment (as I have zero interest in going on a date right now), but I can somewhat relate to what you're going through. My main thing is that I'm not tall (I'm 5'8" ish), but I still get dates with very attractive women because I've got plenty of other things going for me...it's just that none of them have "stuck" thus far. So I have a general sense of my "level," and knowing I'm capable of fairly consistently getting dates with attractive women has definitely held up my confidence in this arena. Nevertheless, as a guy (especially in NYC and with online dating), you have to be very, very patient. I'll sometimes have a month where I'm getting tons of winks/emails, and then a time when I don't get anything from girls I'm attracted to. You are right to do what you can and keep improving yourself, that's what I do. You say you have an "extreme babyface"...do you just look young? I mean, I'm turning 30 in a few months, yet when I'm clean-shaven, people think I'm like 23. And I have found that a LOT of girls love my babyface...so are you sure that's the problem? Some girls won't date me because I'm not tall, and that's just their preference...some girls may want a more "rugged" look, but I'm sure there are plenty who actually like the babyface look. I think your issue may be your confidence. I know you had one girl in HS that you considered "out of your league," and that temporarily may have helped your confidence. But right now, since it doesn't seem like you're where you wanna be with girls, try to build your confidence up in other ways. I have say, confidence makes a HUGE difference...I have scored chicks I normally wouldn't have if I wasn't confident. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think it's essential to be with someone you are physically attracted to and irrelevant whether the person is someone anyone else would be attracted to and irrelevant whether anyone in your life thinks you are with someone who is pretty or beautiful. If you're talking about wanting someone who looks a certain way so you can feel good about yourself, that's different from wanting physical chemistry. If you find someone who doesn't care about physical attraction, and neither of you is attracted to the other but both of you agree to be in a romantic relationship based on companionship and being affectionate - sure -couples make all sorts of arrangements. But if it's one-sided I don't think it will work. I don't think the situation I described is easy to find. I think you're making huge -and inaccurate- assumptions based on your past experiences as to what will happen in the future. Link to comment
mhowe Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 My bf is not the best looking guy I have ever dated. I find him very attractive --- However, our chemistry is off the charts --- people can SEE it. We also share a ton of similar interests, I have never laughed so often and so much on almost a daily basis....he is kind, generous, and an all around great guy. I wouldn't change a thing. Link to comment
radiohead20 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 The short answer: don't settle, because it will negatively impact your relationship over the long-term, but also try to be realistic with your expectations. You are right to do what you can and keep improving yourself, that's what I do. You say you have an "extreme babyface"...do you just look young? I mean, I'm turning 30 in a few months, yet when I'm clean-shaven, people think I'm like 23. And I have found that a LOT of girls love my babyface...so are you sure that's the problem? Some girls won't date me because I'm not tall, and that's just their preference...some girls may want a more "rugged" look, but I'm sure there are plenty who actually like the babyface look. I think your issue may be your confidence. Haha I guess I coined the term "extreme babyface" because I know that women DO find pretty boys and men with babyfaces attractives. Look at some famous hollywood actors. I say "extreme" because I don't look just look a few years younger, I like literally 9-10 years younger. Also, it seems, as least in my observation,that is ok to have a babyface as long as you retain some masculine element. that is why a babyface with a five o block shadow or a nice jaw is extremely attractive. On top of looking like I am 18-19 when I am 28, my skin is ridiculously soft and I cannot grow any facial hair, and I do not have any form of jutting masculine jaw (just to provide some examples) An adult babyface with no masculine elements is a disaster. an adult babyface with at least one masculine element = extremely desired. It's really hard to explain on here without looking like I am over-analyzing everything, but you would understand if you saw it. It's not "normal". I think it's essential to be with someone you are physically attracted to and irrelevant whether the person is someone anyone else would be attracted to and irrelevant whether anyone in your life thinks you are with someone who is pretty or beautiful. If you're talking about wanting someone who looks a certain way so you can feel good about yourself, that's different from wanting physical chemistry. If you find someone who doesn't care about physical attraction, and neither of you is attracted to the other but both of you agree to be in a romantic relationship based on companionship and being affectionate - sure -couples make all sorts of arrangements. But if it's one-sided I don't think it will work. I don't think the situation I described is easy to find. I think you're making huge -and inaccurate- assumptions based on your past experiences as to what will happen in the future. I want someone with physical chemistry because I personal think that is a essential requirement for intimacy in a relationship, and thus making the other person feel desired and wanted. I making assumption based on consistent observations I've had in relation to how women respond to me the past 10 years, over hundreds of interactions. I am not certain what will happen in the future, but based on the past, and if nothing changes (looks), I will likely end up in the same boat. based on what I tried to do, changing my looks did not change the response so I feel as if nothing can really change. My bf is not the best looking guy I have ever dated. I find him very attractive --- However, our chemistry is off the charts --- people can SEE it. We also share a ton of similar interests, I have never laughed so often and so much on almost a daily basis....he is kind, generous, and an all around great guy. I wouldn't change a thing. I'm happy that you are able to find a relationship like this, it sounds great, even though you mention nothing of physical chemistry. I am thinking maybe I can form a friendship-relationship based on the above. mental chemistry all the way Link to comment
mhowe Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Oh --- the physical chemistry is off the charts. Link to comment
goodheartlady Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I am confused: OP has an extreme baby face: a woman who is dating him would be settling in a way - she could be pursuing someone with a very masculine face. MDJC is 5'8" - a woman has the choice of waiting around for taller men. But it appears that many women have overcome their superficial requirements and dated him. They chose to settle on height for a nice/good guy. So recognize this: Other are settling for you too! You are not everything a woman wants physically either! Every body settles in some way! None of us are gorgeous models, and we all have found loving people who have appreciated us despite our physical flaws. Just remember that when you go out and judge members of the opposite sex from being too fat, too thin, etc. Link to comment
DancingFool Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 For as long as you obsess this way, your results will remain the same. It's not your looks. It's your attitude above - instant and extreme turn off to just about every woman out there. This extreme insecurity and negativity that you have toward yourself is what drives women away. There is an old cliche out there that you have to love yourself before anyone can love you. It's about as applicable as it can get in your case. You need to let go of this physical obsession and you'll find that when you do, things turn around dramatically. Please realize that there are no universal rules for what people find attractive. If you asked ten of my friends what they find attractive, you'll get ten different answers. One of my friends is totally into not just overweight, but obese guys and that's all she ever dates. Another is into bulky gym rats, the kind that can't turn their neck or move their arms anymore. Myself, I'm totally into the skinny scrawny guys. There is someone for everyone, however nobody likes an insecure whiny guy who is just obsessing about his physique, his baby face and has to be constantly propped up in terms of confidence. That is just too exhausting and even if you think that you keep that well hidden, I can guarantee you that you don't. It seeps out of you in many different ways. When you accept yourself as is and realize that you are just fine like that, you will start attracting people instead of repelling. As for feeling chemistry and physical attraction - it's a must for a romantic relationship. It's just not an option unless the idea of a lifetime celibacy appeals to you. Link to comment
missmarple Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I've always liked men with a babyface and still do and I don't understand why you think your face isn't normal. Many people look much younger than they are and they find people who are attracted to them....and, surely, they're attracted to some of them themselves. If you want to send me a pic of yourself, I could give you my honest opinion but I seriously doubt that the problem is your baby face. Link to comment
Ms Darcy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You have posted this thread before. Many times. I think you should pick a path and stick to it ... to be honest. IN one path, the ones who you are attracted to aren't attracted to you so far. In the other path, the ones who are attracted to you, you aren't attracted to. Either way, you aren't happy. In my opinion, if you are not attracting the type of girl you want consistently, it means you are not as attractive as you think you are/need to recalibrate your expectations. Attractive girls aren't going to settle either. But that's just my opinion. Also, lots of single, attractive women don't really want to date a young guy with a kid. Link to comment
radiohead20 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 I am confused: OP has an extreme baby face: a woman who is dating him would be settling in a way - she could be pursuing someone with a very masculine face. MDJC is 5'8" - a woman has the choice of waiting around for taller men. But it appears that many women have overcome their superficial requirements and dated him. They chose to settle on height for a nice/good guy. So recognize this: Other are settling for you too! You are not everything a woman wants physically either! Every body settles in some way! None of us are gorgeous models, and we all have found loving people who have appreciated us despite our physical flaws. Just remember that when you go out and judge members of the opposite sex from being too fat, too thin, etc. Being 5'8" is not terribly short and is not what I would call a good example of women overcoming a universal held, ubiquitous requirement. I know I am not what every women wants, I am fine with that. however I it FRUSTRATING not being what 99% of women require as a baseline. Secondly, the second half of my post was totally about "settling", in terms of looks, but I was wondering if, as a guy, it is feasible and workable to settle in something as important as physical attraction that's the main point of my post. You have posted this thread before. Many times. I think you should pick a path and stick to it ... to be honest. IN one path, the ones who you are attracted to aren't attracted to you so far. In the other path, the ones who are attracted to you, you aren't attracted to. Either way, you aren't happy. In my opinion, if you are not attracting the type of girl you want consistently, it means you are not as attractive as you think you are/need to recalibrate your expectations. Attractive girls aren't going to settle either. But that's just my opinion. Also, lots of single, attractive women don't really want to date a young guy with a kid. You know I love and hate the fact that sometimes you are just brutally honest. Love it because it aligns with how I project myself but it hate it, from a sense that it just re-affirms the sense of hopelessness at ever finding someone that keeps building up inside of me over the past decade. You are right, I am not physically attractive enough to date women that I am physically attracted too, and the fact that being physically attracted to someone is a requirement for me and most men to date someone, along with the fact that I have improved myself physically as high as I can go, there is no way of fixing this. On top of that, I have a wonderful 2 year old that unfortunately, would also be a huge huge hit against me for any women in her 20's I would be willing to date. The grim reality is that, I do have a lot working against me. I guess I cannot seem to adjust to hopelessness, maybe take it day by day. I have been through one or two life changes that I thought I would never adjust too, but after a few months to a year of trying have adjusted fine. Maybe I just need to have a better resolve on this one issue, take it day by day, and realize that in a few months to a year I will slowly become content with it, and maybe even happy with it. honestly, I just need to stop venting and whining on this board, suck it up, bear it day by day, re-orient my life and find new ways other than relationships and dating to be happy. It's the only sure solution I have to be happy and content in the future. I have way too much stuff I want to do and accomplish to let this bog me down. Link to comment
goodheartlady Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Settling is feasible: every woman who has dated you likely settled on some of their physical requirements. Link to comment
icecreamaddict Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Being 5'8" is not terribly short and is not what I would call a good example of women overcoming a universal held, ubiquitous requirement. I know I am not what every women wants, I am fine with that. however I it FRUSTRATING not being what 99% of women require as a baseline. Secondly, the second half of my post was totally about "settling", in terms of looks, but I was wondering if, as a guy, it is feasible and workable to settle in something as important as physical attraction that's the main point of my post. You're overanalyzing this situation. Do you really need to pick a path? Maybe just go with the flow, talk to people and have fun. Link to comment
John John Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Being 5'8" is not terribly short and is not what I would call a good example of women overcoming a universal held, ubiquitous requirement. I know I am not what every women wants, I am fine with that. however I it FRUSTRATING not being what 99% of women require as a baseline. Secondly, the second half of my post was totally about "settling", in terms of looks, but I was wondering if, as a guy, it is feasible and workable to settle in something as important as physical attraction that's the main point of my post. Not being tall hasn't really been an impediment to my dating success because I have a lot of other things going for me (as I'm sure you do as well). But even so, it takes time to find someone you like (and are physically attracted to) who likes you back (and is equally as physically attracted to you). That's just the way it is. And if you're not confident, it will take even longer. I think Darcy got it on the nose...you may need to recalibrate your expecations a bit. As I said earlier, you have to have an idea of what your "level" is...typically you can gauge this by looking at how attractive the women are who are interested in you/that you have dated in the past. If you have been able to consistently land dates/hook up with attractive women, then you shouldn't settle for under that. But based on many of your posts, it seems like you haven't been able to do this as consistently as you'd like...so you have to either be REALLY patient, or just alter your expecations (as Darce said). Link to comment
icecreamaddict Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You have posted this thread before. Many times. I think you should pick a path and stick to it ... to be honest. IN one path, the ones who you are attracted to aren't attracted to you so far. In the other path, the ones who are attracted to you, you aren't attracted to. Either way, you aren't happy. In my opinion, if you are not attracting the type of girl you want consistently, it means you are not as attractive as you think you are/need to recalibrate your expectations. Attractive girls aren't going to settle either. But that's just my opinion. Also, lots of single, attractive women don't really want to date a young guy with a kid. Haven't you posed this same question more than once? What are you hoping to get out of posting a new thread with the exact same question? Do you just want someone to say yes, you having a baby face is why you can't get girls you are attracted to? Will that make you feel better? Link to comment
Blue Spiral Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Personally, I recommend against settling. Yeah, we all have to be realistic about our expectations...but you can't rationalize yourself into being attracted to someone that you aren't attracted to. I'm going to briefly objectify my fellow human beings by referring to them as food: if your doctor tells you that you can no longer eat your favorite food, you may be "realistic" and "learn to enjoy" other foods, but, deep down, you'll know it isn't as good. We can only lie to ourselves so much. (Granted, I'm an outlier--I was stuck with the "choice" of settling for women I wasn't attracted to or being alone, and I chose being alone.) But I don't think you'll have to go that far. I guarantee you: there are women out there that are attracted to the type of guy you are. Think about all of the freaky things that people are attracted to. There are foot fetishists and all sorts of kinks that have me reaching for the brain-bleach, so there must be ten times as many women that are attracted to something as clean and mainstream as your "type". I disagree with goodheartleady; I don't think either gender is universally attracted to a certain "type", and that everyone who can't get that type is "settling". I never settled for my girlfriends or my FWBs. Shockingly enough, I was their type (or one of their types), and they were one of mine. There are women that go for baby-faced guys (I'm one, too), just as there are women that go for metrosexual guys, black guys only, British accents, humor, musicians, etc. We live in a world where there are women that enjoy being peed on...do you really think that something as simple as looking younger is going to doom you? Link to comment
John John Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I must say...very well said, Blue Spiral! I lol'ed on your bit about the "brain bleach" LMFAO! Link to comment
Blue Spiral Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Sorry for the double-post, but I wanted to add this. I've heard quite a few women say that "Yeah, my bf/husband isn't conventionally attractive, but I think he's really hot because of how he carries himself/(or something else about his personality)." It's even been said in this thread. I have to be honest, I've never heard a man say anything like that. Personality doesn't usually enhance/fill in for hotness, for us. What I hear men say is along the lines of "Yeah, we don't always get along, and she can be kind of annoying, but she's really, really sexy." As proof, I copy/paste ND40 from his thread: "Though to be honest, a hot girl who's crazy about you and amazing in bed can easily be forgiven deficiencies in other departments!" So, expecting the OP to use a woman's personality to make up for the lack of attraction (i.e., "being realistic")...yeah, I don't think it works that way. Link to comment
Blue Spiral Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I must say...very well said, Blue Spiral! I lol'ed on your bit about the "brain bleach" LMFAO! Thank you. Unfortunately, I've had to use some of that bleach on myself. I once went on some casual sex/poly sites, thinking that I could find some women like me--i.e., sexual libertines. That was how I realized that I'm actually an extremely tame person, outside of the whole monogamy-challenged thing. Mother of god. Also...what's up with the OP being shamed for having a kid? If I said that to a single mom, Ms. Darcy would rain down the fires of hell on me. Link to comment
Ms Darcy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Blue Spiral, nice weekly attempt at fanning some sort of controversy. You must be bored today. OP has a kid. Lots of women are not interested in dating guys his age with kids. Even he is not interested in dating a single mom. Facts are facts and not shame. Link to comment
Blue Spiral Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Facts are facts and not shame. That's an easy thing for women to say in the height-related threads. The weight-related and sexual-experience-related ones, however... Edited to clarify: I don't think it's fair to say "It's okay to not be attracted to someone" in one area, and to turn around and say the opposite in another area. If it's okay to just "state the fact" that some women don't like single dads, then it's okay to state the same about some men and single moms. If it's okay to say that many women just aren't attracted to short guys, then it's okay to say that many men just aren't attracted to heavy or extremely experienced women. But I see a lot of picking and choosing around here. Which is why I think that, if the tables were turned, you wouldn't be picking on the OP. Link to comment
goodheartlady Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You guys are welcome to what ever physical standards you think you deserve. Be as picky as you would like , just don't come here and whine about how you can't land that perfect girl! Link to comment
John John Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Aaaaaaaaaaaand yet another thread is on its way to being poisoned! OP, you'd better be careful with what you say...turns out ENA may not be the best place to vent. You may start having unwarranted insults from trolls tossed your way Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.