The whole "confidence"/ "self-worth" thing

[MattW]

Let's be honest, whether people want to admit it or not, everyone has the innate desire of wanting to feel, well... "wanted", "desired" by other people. That's why it always bugs me when people preach about "confidence" and having "self-worth", in terms of dating. Yeah, those things obviously have to come from within someone, but when someone is basically a good person, does the right thing, and treats everyone the right way, and yet is still "unwanted", "undesired", "unattractive" to everyone, romantically or platonically, how exactly is that person supposed to feel good about themselves?

 

Again, everyone wants to be noticed by others, everyone wants to matter to someone else. It's one thing to be "in a rut", but when your entire life has been a "rut", when you've never felted wanted or desired by anyone else ever, how are you supposed to be confident, how are you supposed to feel good about yourself, to be "that" guy, the one that actually gets the girl?

[Thorshammer]

My cousin is ugly and he is very confident and successful with women. He has a lot of friends, and they all want to be around him. He leads groups... women run to him. He gathered his confidence from all the men that look up to him and want to be around him, not from the women who dont know his personality but judge his looks and laugh when he approaches them asking for their number.

[ForeverFree81]

I get what you mean, but to me, the most important and rewarding type of love is loving yourself. If you cant love and appreciate yourself as you are, the good and bad, you cant expect someone else to do the same to you. You have to be happy within yourself and good things will make their way into your life. I think it depends on your priorities; is being in a relationship more important than being happy or healthy or things like that? Different people have different ideas on things like this. I hope mine makes sense?

[Steve474]

Women will not understand your perspective. On a regular dating site, an unattractive female will get over 50 weekly date invitations. A good-looking man, after hours of work, might get one date. An ugly man, no dates.

 

Imagine your average man. His situation does not look good. Put yourself in his shoes and you will see a life of, not only no sex but, many times, minimal human contact. This is not rare at all, in fact, statistics show 85% of male college students do not get regular sex, while the remaining 15% sleeps with the overwhelming majority of the girls.

 

How can he feel good about himself, you might ask? Quite simply, he has to prove his beliefs wrong. Self-esteem will not come from the inside, from looking in the mirror telling yourself how awesome you are. It is about mindsets. Look carefully and you will see that women do look at you, just very briefly so as to not get found out. Approach enough and you will find girls that like you without you having to change your personality.

 

Seems stupid, but go out an approach 100 women. Trust me, you will get a girlfriend. Several probably. 100 women takes about 6 months. You could otherwise spend these 6 months whining on online forums. Your choice.

[blueidealist24]

I kind of agree. Even the ugly guy mentioned in a post above gathers confidence from all the male friends he has. However, there is one other way you can get confidence, by being good at things. For example, if you're a math whiz, that really has nothing to do with other people, but it might make you feel good about yourself. Does the fact that you're good at video editing make you feel even a bit good about yourself?

 

I actually think a lot of guys who are unsuccessful socially sometimes develop a number of task-related talents to make up for their lack of confidence/success in other areas, but I can't say that for sure. It's just that a lot of guys who are considered "nerdy" and not socially successful have a lot of talents when it comes to computers, engineering, numbers, and things like that.

[pl3asehelp]

Confidence comes from being successful in things, otherwise it's just arrogance. You have to be doing these things and doing them well for your own sake, not for their side effects. That will give you real confidence. Others will notice and did you attractive to it. If you do these things for the purpose of attracting others, it's obvious you're a poseur.

[ParisPaulette]

when someone is basically a good person, does the right thing, and treats everyone the right way

 

These are all admirable qualities to have IF you show them and avail them to the right kind of people, but if you choose the wrong people to be like that with it's just a waste no matter how "good" or "nice" you are to them. You can't be nice to a rattlesnake and expect it not to bite you when you pick it up, because it's a rattlesnake. My point is maybe finding a better class of people who actually appreciate you for you are is the better thing to do first and yes, that then helps build your confidence. Real confidence and self-worth come from within as you said, but those things typically come from accomplishments and goals you've achieved--not the value others do or don't place on you.

[Slimpee]

You are the ONLY person who can develop confidence and self-worth. YOU have that choice.

 

Looking outside yourself to determine self-worth is simply attempting to build a house on a foundation of sand...it'll never stand for long.

 

You know this, homie.

[Weeblie]

how are you supposed to be confident, how are you supposed to feel good about yourself

 

Sports would be a good start. Take up a contact sport. Mastery of the body often leads to confidence and the endorphins help with feeling good. Also, the better shape you're in, the more attractive you are.

[Steve474]

Confidence is localized competence.

 

When you talk about confidence, you are talking about "social confidence". Being good at sports will make you confident in the sport, confident at what you do. Outside of that it will give a false sense of security: "I play sports so I must be cool." This is not solid at all.

 

To gain social confidence you must be socially competent, and the only way to become so is by overfamiliarizing yourself with social situations and proving to yourself, through real experience that your beliefs "I am unwanted, unattractive..." are indeed false. You can't just tell yourself they are false. You have to go out there and prove that they are false.

[Piano]

I get what you mean, but to me, the most important and rewarding type of love is loving yourself. If you cant love and appreciate yourself as you are, the good and bad, you cant expect someone else to do the same to you. You have to be happy within yourself and good things will make their way into your life. I think it depends on your priorities; is being in a relationship more important than being happy or healthy or things like that? Different people have different ideas on things like this. I hope mine makes sense?

 

Wise words from Audrey.

 

Hello MattW,

 

I understand how you feel. However, and I'm just complementing Audrey's excellent post, you have to put in line and in order your priorities. Is being in a relationship your most important priority? If so, ask yourself, "why". Is it because everyone seems so "happy" with their SO(beautiful woman/man) at the local grocery store? Is it because it would be great to walk down the river with your SO as the sun sets in the horizon? Is it because you would like to share intimacy?? Let me tell you this, those are good things to do, but a strong relationship is not formed like that and sincerely speaking, you won't experience true love by doing that. True love most of the time is to suffer. Observe and research the instability of marriages nowadays (high divorce rates). Many couples shared similar experiences with their SO before they got married. The question is, what happened to their "love" once they got married and the children were born?. Furthermore, those experiences do not add value to your self-worth or confidence.

 

In other words, if you don't feel confident when you're single, do not think that you will feel confident when you get to have a relationship with a beautiful(whole sense of word not just physically speaking) woman. You have to develop a strong sense of who you are. What are your virtues(not your physical talents like sports/art/etc)? I'm talking about, are you patient or impatient? Do you usually see the good in others or just the bad stuff? Do you have a tranquil and peaceful mind or are you always anxious? Are you grateful for what you have or are you desiring constantly what others have?

 

If you watch this video: .

 

You will learn more about what you are really feeling and most importantly the meaning of what you think is love. Is it fish love or love for the other?

[blueidealist24]

These are all admirable qualities to have IF you show them and avail them to the right kind of people, but if you choose the wrong people to be like that with it's just a waste no matter how "good" or "nice" you are to them. You can't be nice to a rattlesnake and expect it not to bite you when you pick it up, because it's a rattlesnake. My point is maybe finding a better class of people who actually appreciate you for you are is the better thing to do first and yes, that then helps build your confidence. Real confidence and self-worth come from within as you said, but those things typically come from accomplishments and goals you've achieved--not the value others do or don't place on you.

 

ITA with this. Some people are just plain mean and they won't be nice to you no matter what.

[missmarple]

Women will not understand your perspective. On a regular dating site, an unattractive female will get over 50 weekly date invitations. A good-looking man, after hours of work, might get one date. An ugly man, no dates.

 

OMG, I couldn't disagree with this more! I actually think it's the exact opposite!

I'm an attractive female (ok, not a top model but attractive enough to attract enough attention by men and I do get many date invitations on dating sites. But I also NEVER turn someone down just because they're not attractive...I talk to everyone who matches the age range and other qualities I'm looking for and judge their personality first and foremost.

I've turned down handsome men and I've been on dates with average looking men.

I think women is the gender that, usually, goes more for personality and men is the gender who, usually, goes more for looks and I really believe that.

 

As to the OP's question, something that works is act as if you are confident and, eventually, you will be. And work on yourself. Be the best you can be. Take someone you trust with you when you go shopping, have your hair cut in the best possible way and make sure you're the guy who can talk about lots of things. Also, show women you're really interested in them and their life and in what they have to say. Eventually, you may not have flocks of women around you but you'll get the girl, I promise you. As long as it's not one of those shallow girls who only want to date Brad Pitt lookalikes.

[Wayfara]

Let's be honest, whether people want to admit it or not, everyone has the innate desire of wanting to feel, well... "wanted", "desired" by other people.

 

Everyone wants to be desired but basing your confidence and self worth on other people desiring you wouldn't be recommended as there is not given that someone will desire you. You can be great and not have someone desire you and you can be bad and have someone desire you, people desiring you is a poor judge of how great you are. So in short, you don't know if someone will desire you and having people desiring you doesn't say much of your character so it's better to derive confidence from being your own judge of the character by being someone you yourself can respect and look up to.

 

when someone is basically a good person, does the right thing, and treats everyone the right way, and yet is still "unwanted", "undesired", "unattractive" to everyone, romantically or platonically, how exactly is that person supposed to feel good about themselves?

 

They should feel good about themselves for being good, while the approval of others is great you shouldn't need it to approve of yourself. So if people don't approve of you, look at the criticism and see if they have any point, they might not and then their views don't matter, and if they have a point you can see that as an opportunity to improve yourself.

 

See yourself as a painter, you should paint for your own enjoyment and not for the liking of others, the most important thing is you being satisfied with the masterpiece, other people liking it too is just icing on the cake, not the cake itself. People will have opinions and maybe not like the painting so look at the criticism and see if they have any point. Maybe they don't like the painting because you made the eye three times as big as the nose and you were trying to paint a realistic portrait of a friend, well then you can go back and change the painting to get a better likeness of your friend. Other might not like the painting because painted your friend with brown eyes (which he has) and they like blue eyes better, well then that is just subjective preference and not something you need to fret about. I know a painter who never exhibited anything during her life because she knew she was before her time and made instructions that her paintings shouldn't be shown to the world until 20 years after her death. She believed in her art and didn't need other people praising her, that is confidence.

 

True confidence makes you independent of the approval of others.

[Batya33]

Being a good person doesn't guarantee achieving a lasting romantic relationship especially on the terms you've written about so many times -that you are attracted to few people to begin with, etc. I don't think you're being a good person to yourself, and therefore it's really hard to be a good person to other people or to the world in general when you have so much negativity/toxicity/anger as you have described. People sense that often even before you speak.

[Thorshammer]

I wouldnt go so far and say a good looking man doesnt get hit on a lot online. Women having all these benefits online and sitting on thrones while all men beg for attention online is not true. I think this is a major reason why these attractive women online aim for the hottest guys on the net, because they see their inbox getting filled, and they keep hearing how men have a hard time dating online, so they decide to look for brad pitt, and brad pitt bails on them and they take it as men not taking online dating seriously - no... brad pitt had his inbox just as packed and you are not his angelina jolie.

 

Focus on yourself. I used to be insecure and thought i would never have anyone either. I still remember the days i would go to clubs and be glued to the wall with no idea what i was doing, or how nervous i would get to just tell a girl i liked them. I also did things to improve my look. I checked which hair style was best for my face, what facial hair style fit best (hmm, i notice more attention with a thinner goatee for example), what type of clothes and colors to wear, what size was best for me (bulky/muscled or lean/cut)- my whole approach to attraction was trial and error- also jokes, flowing with conversation, etc.

[Capricorn3]

Being a good person doesn't guarantee achieving a lasting romantic relationship especially on the terms you've written about so many times -that you are attracted to few people to begin with, etc. I don't think you're being a good person to yourself, and therefore it's really hard to be a good person to other people or to the world in general when you have so much negativity/toxicity/anger as you have described. People sense that often even before you speak.

So true. If you are not happy within, it shows on the outside, no matter how much one tries to hide it. It sticks like mud.

 

(Ooops, just realized what I was posting in. ~steps out~)

[allcity]

"True confidence makes you independent of the approval of others."

 

So true and so eloquently said!

 

Confidence in yourself has nothing to do with the approval of others. And 'confidence' gained through the approval of others is not real self-confidence, as it can be taken it away just as easily as it can be given.

 

I've always been popular with woman and have pretty much never gone without women wanting to date me and/or chasing after me, and yet I always had very low self-esteem that I hid beneath a veneer of fake self-confidence.

 

A lifetime of being subject to abuse, violence, judgement, racism and many other negative factors meant that no matter how 'nice looking' I was thought to be, it did nothing to help me feel confident.

 

I never gained true self-confidence until I managed to lose everything but my health. Only then did I see that true self-confidence can only ever come from within and that no outside source can ever provide it for us.

 

If you hang all your confidence on how anyone else perceives you, then you're setting yourself up for a fall. And if you hang it on how a romantic partner sees you, then you're guaranteeing lots of problems for yourself.

 

Thinking that confidence can only be gained by being 'desired' by others is exactly the kind of thinking that can kill a relationship faster than it started.

[penelope13]

Did you give any of the suggestions or websites from your last thread a serious try?

[lifesatrip]

I feel like i can relate to where you're coming from. It's easy for people to extoll the virtues of self-love and self-acceptance when they have grown up having experienced such acceptance and love from others in their lives (even just from one or two people). You on the other hand have never really had this experience. You don't have a model to work off of. The popular conception of self-esteem is that "real" self-esteem comes entirely from within. But in reality our perception of ourselves is very much shaped and influenced by the people around us. (Look at the Stanford Prison experiment for example).

 

I don't in any way think this means you are doomed to be alone though. We do have power to change how we feel about ourselves, and slowly gain confidence from within. The brain is very malleable and can be taught to pattern itself differently. It may be helpful to learn self-acceptance first. Confidence can be more easily built on a foundation of self-acceptance. (The attitude that you'll still be ok with yourself whether you succeed or fail at any given endeavor). (I think this can be especially hard for men, due to social pressure to be "masculine" and "competent" at all times. But ultimately a man who knows and embraces all aspects of himself is much sexier than a man who is perpetually hiding from his inner femininity). Anyway, if you learn to create a foundation of self-acceptance, I think you will learn to develop confidence. You will develop confidence through a trail and error process of learning better social skills. You may also need to examine and heal old wounds which are keeping you emotionally stuck. A good therapist would be a really good idea. I think it would be incredibly hard to try to do these things on your own. (But if you see a therapist, make sure it's a good one, many of them aren't, you might have to shop around).

[allcity]

In reality our perception of ourselves is very much shaped and influenced by the people around us. (Look at the Stanford Prison experiment for example).

 

Experiments like that only teach us that the average human being is too dumb and weak to not instinctively act like a herd animal, rather than use their own initiative and independent thought.

 

This thread and the advice in it is suggesting exactly the opposite of that kind of thinking, as that kind of thinking is what got MattW here in the first place.

[MattW]

What I'm trying to say is that I try to be the best person I can be, to people. I'm kind, supportive, compassionate, I try to make people laugh, I help and be as generous as I can, I genuinely want people to be happy. Yet, it never seems to really matter to anyone else. If nobody else cares, why should I? Why should I feel good about myself when, despite doing what I can to be someone people would want in their lives, I'm unwanted?

 

Yeah, I mean, there are other things I want out of life, too, besides friends/ romance, and I'm working on those other things, but to me, a life without friends, a life without love, just doesn't seem worth living. If the remaining 40-50 years of my life are going to be spent alone, I really don't think I'd want to go through with that. That just makes my heart hurt. At this point, I feel like I'm trying to find something to keep me going, but I just don't see any "light at the end of the tunnel" for myself.

[allcity]

You're not alone in that kind of thinking. I'd say that 99% (if not 100%) of people I've ever known have felt that way at some time in their lives. And many of them were married, had kids etc.

 

Loneliness is a very human emotion and can be felt even when you're surrounded by friends and family. The key to not feeling lonely, though, can only ever come from within and never from outside.

 

That's another reason why so many people here have suggested therapy etc for you, as you are clearly in need of help that you feel unable to provide for yourself at this stage in your life.

 

And the so-called 'light at the end of the tunnel' is all in how you choose to view your life. No offence, but very few people get the life they wanted. That's no reason to give up hope at 24 years old.

[Weeblie]

What I'm trying to say is that I try to be the best person I can be, to people. I'm kind, supportive, compassionate, I try to make people laugh, I help and be as generous as I can, I genuinely want people to be happy. Yet, it never seems to really matter to anyone else. If nobody else cares, why should I? Why should I feel good about myself when, despite doing what I can to be someone people would want in their lives, I'm unwanted?

 

Do you workout or are you involved in any sports?

[MattW]

Do you workout or are you involved in any sports?

 

No. To be perfectly honest, I have no interest in sports or any kind of athletics. I'll admit, I'm in pretty average shape, but I'm really not overweight, and I get enough physical activity at work that I'm not completely out of shape, or anything like that.

 

Loneliness is a very human emotion and can be felt even when you're surrounded by friends and family. The key to not feeling lonely, though, can only ever come from within and never from outside.

 

I guess, but being as alone as I am surely doesn't help matters any. I'm not trying to say that confidence and self-worth are COMPLETELY dependent on other people, just that it plays a big part in things. If you do great things, but no one else cares what you do, how satisfying can it really be to do those things? We're a social creature, everyone craves affection and attention from others on some level. Getting as little of that as I do doesn't exactly help me feel any better about myself.

 

And the so-called 'light at the end of the tunnel' is all in how you choose to view your life. No offence, but very few people get the life they wanted. That's no reason to give up hope at 24 years old.

 

But having friends and finding love aren't so unreasonable as to be unattainable for most people. In fact, those are things that many people CAN attain. Hence why it's even more frustrating for me to know how undesirable I am, because if everyone was as alone and alienated as I am, then my situation wouldn't be so bleak, because it would be "normal". But most people are able to be desirable and attractive to other people; knowing that I can't be is kind of sad, really.

 

That's another reason why so many people here have suggested therapy etc for you, as you are clearly in need of help that you feel unable to provide for yourself at this stage in your life.

 

Eh. I've actually tried e-mailing some places to set up something with a therapist, but I've hit a bit of a snag, because with my part time job, full time education, and part time internship, I can't seem to find an appointment that lines up right with my schedule.